DO friendly internal medicine university programs

[JeetKuneDo]

Did UW (washington) ever take someone in their categorical program? I just know of a primary care match.

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[NurWollen]

Not a bad list. But, as a DO who just matched into one of these programs and interviewed at a lot of them, I'll throw in my two cents.

Tier 1a:
UPenn, UWash, Yale, UTSW,

Tier 1b:
Mayo, Brown, UVa, Wake Forest, Dartmouth, OHSU, Wisconsin, Colorado, Emory, Baylor

--
Tier 2a:
Iowa, Ohio State, Rochester, Indiana, Minnesota, Georgetown, Temple, RWJ, Utah, VCU, Tulane, UF-Gainesville

Tier 2b
UVM, Rush, UIC, Loyola, UMDNJ-Newark, UCDavis, MCW, Penn State, UT-Houston, UT-San Antonio, USC

--
Tier 3a:
UMiami, UMass, MUSC, New Mexico, Cincinnati, Kentucky, GWU, Louisville, CCF, Tennessee, USF, Nebraska, Creighton, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Stony Brook, Upstate, Arizona, LSU, Hofstra North Shore-LIJ

Tier 3b:
Kansas, MCG, UConn, St. Louis, Wayne State, Texas Tech, Mississippi, Missouri, Loma Linda,

--
Tier 4a:
Downstate, Drexel, Albany, Buffalo, Howard, St. Louis, ECU, UTMB

Tier 4b:
SIU, EVMS

In the end, you'll be fine if you match at any of these programs (and many other university programs) if that's where you want to be.

FSU is a brand new IM program and didn't take DOs when I last looked; maybe their policy has changed, but it's almost entirely FMGs anyways. UCF hasn't even started their IM residency yet.

Other university programs that take DOs, but don't fit into any tier: South Dakota, South Alabama, Western Michigan, VT-Carilion, Mercer, ETSU

I just don't get this. There seem to be quite a few IM programs that consist almost entirely of IMGs/FMGs and have no DOs. IM seems to be the only speciality that is like this.

 

[NurWollen]

Did UW (washington) ever take someone in their categorical program? I just know of a primary care match.

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a 'primary care match?' I'm aware f the difference between a categorical and a preliminary match, but I've never seen 'categorical match' used in this context.

 

[willackerman]

Rocky Vista University in Colorado?

 

[babdoc]

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a 'primary care match?' I'm aware f the difference between a categorical and a preliminary match, but I've never seen 'categorical match' used in this context.

I assume It means someone that matches into their primary care track rather than the traditional categorical track. Some programs allow you to do do some extra ambulatory work and call it a "primary care track".

 

[ArtemisGordon]

I just don't get this. There seem to be quite a few IM programs that consist almost entirely of IMGs/FMGs and have no DOs. IM seems to be the only speciality that is like this.

Well, these places are FMG factories for a reason...usually because they're malignant or of lower quality. You're better off not matching there.

 

[Mosonik]

How important are sub-i at these university IM programs?

 

[swlabr1980]

How important are sub-i at these university IM programs?

Audition rotations matter less in the ACGME world than they do at AOA programs. However, a sub-I is a great rotation to get a good feel of what an IM resident does, and it could lead to a great recommendation letter for the match.

 

[NurWollen]

Well, these places are FMG factories for a reason...usually because they're malignant or of lower quality. You're better off not matching there.

True. Thanks for the list, btw. Looks like there still are quite a few University-based IM programs that take DOs. I don't think I need a 'top-tier' program (in whatever specialty I chose 3-4 years from now.). I need a program with a diverse patient population and a high patient volume. There are plenty of established teaching hospitals out there that aren't even necessarily part of a university but nonetheless are tertiary care facilities/level I trauma centers with their own fellowships, etc.

 

[ArtemisGordon]

FSU is a brand new IM program and didn't take DOs when I last looked; maybe their policy has changed, but it's almost entirely FMGs anyways.

Following up on my earlier post, a LECOM grad just matched into FSU's IM program, so they indeed take DOs now.

 

[Mattinthehat250]

Anyone know about Kaiser Santa Clara? On their website it shows that they have taken a fair amount of DOs in the past, but this last year they took no DOs and all of the people they did take came from fairly prestigious MD schools. Maybe just an anomaly?

 

[Instatewaiter]

Funny how IM, though less competitive overall than anesthesiology, seems to be less-DO friendly than the latter. Especially since some of these IM programs have a good number of IMGs and FMGs.

Actually, IM and anesthesia have the same board scores and this includes all those ****ty community IM programs.

Realistically anesthesia isn't very competitive at all and it's interest is waning.

 

[NurWollen]

Actually, IM and anesthesia have the same board scores and this includes all those ****ty community IM programs.

Realistically anesthesia isn't very competitive at all and it's interest is waning.

Aside from the crap facing every specialty, why is this? CRNA's taking over? Allegedly it's one if the higher paying specialties, still.

 

[SurgeDO]

Aside from the crap facing every specialty, why is this? CRNA's taking over? Allegedly it's one if the higher paying specialties, still.

CRNAs.

 

[CHAGEO]

According to FREIDA, there are 137 university programs in the country. Some of the places that I have personally not heard of DOs matching into (and I could be wrong):

Duke, Michigan, WashU, MGH, BID, UCLA, Stanford, Northwestern, UCSF, UChicago, JHU, Maryland, Tufts, BWH, NYU, Mount Sinai, Columbia, Cornell, UNC, UPMC, Vanderbilt.

When I was a clinical research assistant at Stanford University Medical Center in 2009, I saw a resident who is a DO.

 

[Didierdrogba]

Did UW (washington) ever take someone in their categorical program? I just know of a primary care match.

I don't think I have seen one, from my experience. They appear to be very DO unfriendly, so is the entire Pacific northwest

 

[Didierdrogba]

When I was a clinical research assistant at Stanford University Medical Center in 2009, I saw a resident who is a DO.

If I remember correctly, JHU has had DO's in the past also, quite consistently too

 

[SurgeDO]

If I remember correctly, JHU has had DO's in the past also, quite consistently too

Bayview

 

[JeetKuneDo]

I don't think I have seen one, from my experience. They appear to be very DO unfriendly, so is the entire Pacific northwest

This is true. UW will probably never take a DO in their IM program. OHSU will though.

 

[Didierdrogba]

This is true. UW will probably never take a DO in their IM program. OHSU will though.

What's sad is that in Seattle, the general public seems to value/ understand naturopaths more than they value us DO's.

 

[Didierdrogba]

Bayview

fair enough

 

[SLC]

This is true. UW will probably never take a DO in their IM program. OHSU will though.

OHSU does, and has many times. They're not terribly anti-DO there, just real competitive.

They have 7 Osteo-grads right now in their program. 2-3 per year.

 

[Banned]

If I remember correctly, JHU has had DO's in the past also, quite consistently too

Only Osler is considered "real" JHU. I know a DO who matched Sinai (JHU affiliate). He brags about being a Hopkins trained doc, but never mentions Sinai. While technically correct, it's intentionally misleading because there's a huge difference between Osler and the rest.

 

[Didierdrogba]

Only Osler is considered "real" JHU. I know a DO who matched Sinai (JHU affiliate). He brags about being a Hopkins trained doc, but never mentions Sinai. While technically correct, it's intentionally misleading because there's a huge difference between Osler and the rest.

I stand corrected

 

[Mosonik]

Does Emory really qualify as DO friendly? It looks like they have a ton of IMGs but only 1-2 DOs for the past three years...?

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Only Osler is considered "real" JHU. I know a DO who matched Sinai (JHU affiliate). He brags about being a Hopkins trained doc, but never mentions Sinai. While technically correct, it's intentionally misleading because there's a huge difference between Osler and the rest.

Sinai is garbage, but Bayview is actually pretty legit. It's competitive in its own right and attracts a lot of well-qualified US MD applicants.

 

[dozitgetchahi]

Tier 1a:
UPenn, UWash, Yale, UTSW,

Tier 1b:
Mayo, UVa, Dartmouth, OHSU, Wisconsin, Colorado, Emory, Baylor

--
Tier 2a:
Iowa, Ohio State, Rochester, Indiana, Minnesota, Temple, RWJ, Utah, VCU, Tulane, UF-Gainesville, Brown, Wake Forest

Tier 2b
UVM, Rush, UIC, UCDavis, MCW, UT-Houston, UT-San Antonio, USC, Georgetown

--
Tier 3a:
UMiami, MUSC, New Mexico, Cincinnati, Kentucky, GWU, CCF, Tennessee, USF, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Stony Brook, Upstate, Arizona, LSU, Hofstra North Shore-LIJ, UMDNJ-NJMS, Loyola

Tier 3b:
Kansas, MCG, UConn, St. Louis, Wayne State, Texas Tech, Mississippi, Missouri, Loma Linda, Penn State, UMass, Louisville

--
Tier 4a:
Downstate, Drexel, Albany, Buffalo, Howard, St. Louis, ECU, UTMB, Nebraska, Creighton

Tier 4b:
SIU, EVMS



My own take on the list, given my experiences on the trail this year. I matched into tier 2a, for the record.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Aside from the crap facing every specialty, why is this? CRNA's taking over? Allegedly it's one if the higher paying specialties, still.

I don't really know... I imagine it has to do with CRNAs. It could be a sweet gig but for some it could be kinda boring...

You'd get really good at crossword puzzles, though.

Only Osler is considered "real" JHU. I know a DO who matched Sinai (JHU affiliate). He brags about being a Hopkins trained doc, but never mentions Sinai. While technically correct, it's intentionally misleading because there's a huge difference between Osler and the rest.

Sinai is garbage, but Bayview is actually pretty legit. It's competitive in its own right and attracts a lot of well-qualified US MD applicants.

Agree. Sinai isn't even really part of Hopkins. It only is in name. Most of the faculty aren't appointed at Hopkins and Sinai residents don't rotate any more at JHH than any other community program in Baltimore (St Agnes, Sinai and a few others rotate through solid tumors).

Bayview is a strong, University-affiliated community program. It is a lot closer to Hopkins than Sinai. The osler residents run the MICU and CICU at Bayview their second year before running them at JHH. They don't rotate that much at JHH (leukemia and have the option to do electives at JHH). All in all it is a strong program and it takes DOs. Don't waste your time with sinai unless you really long for the hopkins name.

 

[Trogghunter]

The osler residents run the MICU and CICU


Is this commonplace and if so do other programs allow 2nd years this kind of experience?

 

[JeetKuneDo]

What's sad is that in Seattle, the general public seems to value/ understand naturopaths more than they value us DO's.

I agree. The local ND school probably has a lot to do with it.

 

[thethethe]

.

 

[Instatewaiter]

The osler residents run the MICU and CICU


Is this commonplace and if so do other programs allow 2nd years this kind of experience?

It depends on the program. Some programs give you more "autonomy." This is a mixed bag. It allows you to mature faster but is kind of a harrowing experience.

For instance at JHH, you are alone in the ICUs at night as the resident- no attending, no fellow. If someone codes you run it (for that matter as the MICU resident you run all codes in the entire hospital.) If there is something you can't handle you call the fellow and they decide if they come in. There are many nights where the fellow doesn't get called. There are others where both the fellow and attending come in. This is cool and frightening.

Now, having 2nd years run an ICU alone overnight is becoming more and more rare as the ACGME cracks down on residents learning to doctor. For the most part the better the program, the more autonomy but this is not always the case. For instance, at MGH there is a fellow and attending in house.

 

[swlabr1980]

I matched into tier 2a, for the record.

*golf clap*

 

[ArtemisGordon]

Tier 1a:
UPenn, UWash, Yale, UTSW,

Tier 1b:
Mayo, UVa, Dartmouth, OHSU, Wisconsin, Colorado, Emory, Baylor

--
Tier 2a:
Iowa, Ohio State, Rochester, Indiana, Minnesota, Temple, RWJ, Utah, VCU, Tulane, UF-Gainesville, Brown, Wake Forest

Tier 2b
UVM, Rush, UIC, UCDavis, MCW, UT-Houston, UT-San Antonio, USC, Georgetown

--
Tier 3a:
UMiami, MUSC, New Mexico, Cincinnati, Kentucky, GWU, CCF, Tennessee, USF, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Stony Brook, Upstate, Arizona, LSU, Hofstra North Shore-LIJ, UMDNJ-NJMS, Loyola

Tier 3b:
Kansas, MCG, UConn, St. Louis, Wayne State, Texas Tech, Mississippi, Missouri, Loma Linda, Penn State, UMass, Louisville

--
Tier 4a:
Downstate, Drexel, Albany, Buffalo, Howard, St. Louis, ECU, UTMB, Nebraska, Creighton

Tier 4b:
SIU, EVMS



My own take on the list, given my experiences on the trail this year. I matched into tier 2a, for the record.

Guess I thought too highly of some of these programs, haha. Thanks for not demoting my IM program.

I think you could arguably move any program up or down a level on this list. It's splitting hairs, really; a DO would succeed at any of these places if they work hard.

 

[fruity933]

Though technically not a university program...

But, does anyone know more about the Scripps Mercy program? And how DO friendly they are?

Thanks!

 

[Trogghunter]

Though technically not a university program...

But, does anyone know more about the Scripps Mercy program? And how DO friendly they are?

Thanks!

I hear that as a DO there you have to be a good surfer. Just kidding...no idea. They do require USMLE when I emailed them, but they didnt express that they wouldn't take an osteopathic grad when I mentioned it.

 

[fruity933]

I hear that as a DO there you have to be a good surfer. Just kidding...no idea. They do require USMLE when I emailed them, but they didnt express that they wouldn't take an osteopathic grad when I mentioned it.

Haha thanks Trogg....since I have never surfed in my life, I guess I'm on the outs! Their rotation application process is extensive.

Any thoughts of University of Arizona? They seem to take quite a few DOs, but was wondering more of their reputation. I'm from the midwest, but looking to go out West, so would love to hear more.

 

[sylvanthus]

The fact that we even have so many bloody tiers just proves how worthless rankings are. Guess I am in a "3A" program, perhaps I can find a job in south dakota when I finish.

 

[thethethe]

Is it suggested to take USMLE step 2 ck early to keep up with the other applicants at these top tier programs? It can also be another reason to prove to the program director that I am qualified?

 

[swlabr1980]

Is it suggested to take USMLE step 2 ck early to keep up with the other applicants at these top tier programs? It can also be another reason to prove to the program director that I am qualified?

Absolutely, if you're confident that you can crush it. A high USMLE step 2 score looks great on any residency application, especially if you didn't do too well on step 1. If you can get your score back before the application opens up, and your step 1 score is average or below average, I would suggest that you take the exam.

 

[thethethe]

Absolutely, if you're confident that you can crush it. A high USMLE step 2 score looks great on any residency application, especially if you didn't do too well on step 1. If you can get your score back before the application opens up, and your step 1 score is average or below average, I would suggest that you take the exam.

my step 1 score was ~250, does that change anything?

 

[swlabr1980]

my step 1 score was ~250, does that change anything?

That's an awesome score, and should be more than enough for applying to any DO friendly program.. You should contact each program individually to see if they want a step 2 score with their application, or if they have different requirements for DO students. You may not need to take the USMLE step 2 exam at all.

 

[thethethe]

How important is doing sub I early in the application process? It seems that all the sub-i I applied for were rejected and I've been given an internal medicine subspecialty instead. At least these electives are still in the same hospital...

If i work hard on my electives and get a LOR from the attending, would that be a close 2nd to doing a subi?

 

[fruity933]

How important is doing sub I early in the application process? It seems that all the sub-i I applied for were rejected and I've been given an internal medicine subspecialty instead. At least these electives are still in the same hospital...

If i work hard on my electives and get a LOR from the attending, would that be a close 2nd to doing a subi?

hi thethethe (lol),

someone asked that and i found this helpful:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=13996521

 

[thethethe]

hi thethethe (lol),

someone asked that and i found this helpful:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=13996521

danks!

 

[pattr]

Anyone know about Kaiser Santa Clara? On their website it shows that they have taken a fair amount of DOs in the past, but this last year they took no DOs and all of the people they did take came from fairly prestigious MD schools. Maybe just an anomaly?

Kaiser Santa Clara matched 2 DO's from my school (Touro-CA) this year.

Though technically not a university program...

But, does anyone know more about the Scripps Mercy program? And how DO friendly they are?

Thanks!

Yes, Scripps Mercy is a DO friendly program. They match multiple DOs each year. Scripps Green is not DO friendly.

 

[hallowmann]

I just want to say thank you all for posting on this thread. Its very informative and very helpful in general. Thanks guys.

 

[NurWollen]

I just want to say thank you all for posting on this thread. Its very informative and very helpful in general. Thanks guys.

Agreed. Thanks everyone.

 

[kdhmed]

Lot of good info here for us DO peons. Thanks!

 

[BinderClip]

Echoing everyone else here, thank you for the discussion! This really gives me something to think about.