DO friendly internal medicine university programs

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
hi thethethe (lol),

someone asked that and i found this helpful:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?p=13996521

What is a sub-I?

I always thought sub-I was the different specialities of Internal Med such as carido, nephro, gi but apparently I am wrong.

Also, someone on this thread mentioned unviersity residencys such as kaiser and scripps. What are the other ones there? Is it better to do it at an university?

Members don't see this ad.
 
Not a bad list. But, as a DO who just matched into one of these programs and interviewed at a lot of them, I'll throw in my two cents.

Tier 1a:
UPenn, UWash, Yale, UTSW,

Tier 1b:
Mayo, Brown, UVa, Wake Forest, Dartmouth, OHSU, Wisconsin, Colorado, Emory, Baylor

--
Tier 2a:
Iowa, Ohio State, Rochester, Indiana, Minnesota, Georgetown, Temple, RWJ, Utah, VCU, Tulane, UF-Gainesville

Tier 2b
UVM, Rush, UIC, Loyola, UMDNJ-Newark, UCDavis, MCW, Penn State, UT-Houston, UT-San Antonio, USC

--
Tier 3a:
UMiami, UMass, MUSC, New Mexico, Cincinnati, Kentucky, GWU, Louisville, CCF, Tennessee, USF, Nebraska, Creighton, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Stony Brook, Upstate, Arizona, LSU, Hofstra North Shore-LIJ

Tier 3b:
Kansas, MCG, UConn, St. Louis, Wayne State, Texas Tech, Mississippi, Missouri, Loma Linda,

--
Tier 4a:
Downstate, Drexel, Albany, Buffalo, Howard, St. Louis, ECU, UTMB

Tier 4b:
SIU, EVMS

In the end, you'll be fine if you match at any of these programs (and many other university programs) if that's where you want to be.

FSU is a brand new IM program and didn't take DOs when I last looked; maybe their policy has changed, but it's almost entirely FMGs anyways. UCF hasn't even started their IM residency yet.

Other university programs that take DOs, but don't fit into any tier: South Dakota, South Alabama, Western Michigan, VT-Carilion, Mercer, ETSU


Do you mean that the higher the tier, the lower the chance of the program accepting a DO?
 
What is a sub-I?

I always thought sub-I was the different specialities of Internal Med such as carido, nephro, gi but apparently I am wrong.

Also, someone on this thread mentioned unviersity residencys such as kaiser and scripps. What are the other ones there? Is it better to do it at an university?

You're thinking of a sub-specialty. A sub-I is a sub-internship, a rotation usually at the beginning of fourth year (or sometimes at the end of third year) wherein you act as half an intern. You and a "co-sub-intern" work together to do all the work normally expected of a first year resident/intern/PGY-1. You carry your own patients and write notes and orders, which need to be co-signed by your attending or senior resident. This is oftentimes used as an audition rotation so that programs you are interested in can evaluate your competence, knowledge level, and skills.

Kaiser and Scripps are examples of community programs, which can be very strong depending on the program. It is "better" to do your residency at a university if you are interested in certain things: academia, research, some highly competitive fellowships. But many community programs have fellowships in-house as well.

Do you mean that the higher the tier, the lower the chance of the program accepting a DO?

The higher the tier, the more reputable the program. Doesn't necessarily mean that training is significantly better - but does mean it has a better reputation, more resources, more esteemed faculty and usually more research dollars. More esteem/reputation USUALLY translates to less chance for even a stellar DO applicant to match.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Tier 1a:
UPenn, UWash, Yale, UTSW,

Tier 1b:
Mayo, UVa, Dartmouth, OHSU, Wisconsin, Colorado, Emory, Baylor

--
Tier 2a:
Iowa, Ohio State, Rochester, Indiana, Minnesota, Temple, RWJ, Utah, VCU, Tulane, UF-Gainesville, Brown, Wake Forest

Tier 2b
UVM, Rush, UIC, UCDavis, MCW, UT-Houston, UT-San Antonio, USC, Georgetown

--
Tier 3a:
UMiami, MUSC, New Mexico, Cincinnati, Kentucky, GWU, CCF, Tennessee, USF, Oklahoma, Texas A&M, Stony Brook, Upstate, Arizona, LSU, Hofstra North Shore-LIJ, UMDNJ-NJMS, Loyola

Tier 3b:
Kansas, MCG, UConn, St. Louis, Wayne State, Texas Tech, Mississippi, Missouri, Loma Linda, Penn State, UMass, Louisville

--
Tier 4a:
Downstate, Drexel, Albany, Buffalo, Howard, St. Louis, ECU, UTMB, Nebraska, Creighton

Tier 4b:
SIU, EVMS



My own take on the list, given my experiences on the trail this year. I matched into tier 2a, for the record.

Hey, wanted some info on some of the university progs you listed:

UConn: There are 2 progs listed on ERAS. UConn and UConn (New Britain). One has a PC track. Does anyone know anything about this PC track which is offered at the New Britain program?

What does SIU and EVMS stand for?

Thank you.
 
SIU- Southern Illinois
EVMS- Eastern Virginia
 
Not really a university program per say but where does Winthrop (Long Island, NY) stand in terms of all these programs?
 
Can anyone comment on some of the community programs in the NJ area, particularly Palisades and St, Michaels?
 
Just wanted to post that University of Oregon is DO friendly both surgical and IM. They've been friendly for several years now.

Edit: Its very competitive...
 
Last edited:
Can anyone comment on some of the community programs in the NJ area, particularly Palisades and St, Michaels?

Palisades- avoid if possible. The program is poorly organized and does not produce adequately prepared internists.
 
OHSU (it's the Oregon state med school, basically affiliated with both UO and OSU from what I can gather)
Yeah OHSU IM has taken multiple DO's consistently for the past few years. But suffices to say that it is well-recognized program so they only take the best, MD or DO. I know some of the people from my school who matched OHSU for medicine and they were top of their respective classes.
 
Yeah OHSU IM has taken multiple DO's consistently for the past few years. But suffices to say that it is well-recognized program so they only take the best, MD or DO. I know some of the people from my school who matched OHSU for medicine and they were top of their respective classes.

I don't doubt it. The surgery applicant they wanted from my school last year was a freakin' all star from what I can gather. Apparently he cleaned house on his audition, and then took their shelf and scored the highest anyone ever has that's rotated at OHSU.

He ended up going back east.

But the fact remains, they at least take DO's which is more than Ivan say for some of the other programs in that tier.

I'm doing the final two years in Portland and I plan on making a strong run at OHSU. I'm not top of my class, but I'm probably top 25% so we'll see.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Any word on whether Rush in Chicago is still DO friendly? They require a special approval for DO students to rotate there via VSAS. Emails and phone calls go unanswered.

The only other place off the top of my head that I know requires prior approval for DO's before even applying for an elective rotation in VSAS in University of Miami. Any idea on whether or not UMiami (Jackson) is DO friendly?
 
Any word on whether Rush in Chicago is still DO friendly? They require a special approval for DO students to rotate there via VSAS. Emails and phone calls go unanswered.

The only other place off the top of my head that I know requires prior approval for DO's before even applying for an elective rotation in VSAS in University of Miami. Any idea on whether or not UMiami (Jackson) is DO friendly?

Did you ever find the answers to these questions?
 
For prosperity sake and to aid future internal medicine applicants, the following are university programs that have taken at least one DO for internal medicine. Whether or not the acceptance of 1 DO into a program constitutes a "DO friendly" designation remains to be debated, but for reference sake I hope this serves its purpose. Please feel free to contribute any others that I may have missed or unaware of.

Indiana, Iowa, UIC, Wake Forest, Rochester, CCF, OSU, Loyola, Texas A&M, UT-Houston, UPenn, Yale, Dartmouth, Brown, Temple, UMinn, OHSU, UVM, VCU, GW, Louisville, Georgetown, UVa, UMDNJ-RWJ, UMDNJ-Newark, UWash, Kentucky, Utah, Arizona, Loma Linda, USC, UCDavis, Colorado, UConn, Howard, UMiami, UFlorida, FSU, UCF, USF, Emory, MCG, Rush, SIU, Kansas, LSU, Tulane, JHU-Bayview, UMass, Wayne State, Mayo, Mississippi, Missouri, Oklahoma, St. Louis, Creighton, New Mexico, Nebraska, Drexel, Albany, Downstate, Stony Brook, Buffalo, Hofstra NSLIJ, Upstate, Cincinnati, Penn State, MUSC, Tennessee, UT-Southwestern, Texas Tech, UT-San Antonio, MCW, Baylor, UT-Galveston, Wisconsin, Toledo,

**only categorical and PC track applies for above. Prelims don't count.

What is your basis for some of these. For instance UVA doesn't have a Single D.O. Internal Medicine Resident in their program currently http://www.medicine.virginia.edu/cl...e/grad-ed/im-residapp/program/photo-directory.
 
The best way to determine this is to go to the universities' websites that you are interested in and look at their residents. If there are plenty of DO's you can assume they are DO friendly.
 
What is your basis for some of these. For instance UVA doesn't have a Single D.O. Internal Medicine Resident in their program currently http://www.medicine.virginia.edu/cl...e/grad-ed/im-residapp/program/photo-directory.

To be fair, that post you quoted is going on 2 yrs old and it's very possible that at the time they had 1 DO in their IM program.

The best way to determine this is to go to the universities' websites that you are interested in and look at their residents. If there are plenty of DO's you can assume they are DO friendly.

This is generally true, but if you really like a program, consider getting in contact with someone from there. Some websites are outdated, others list DOs as MDs, etc. I particularly remember one program listing 1 DO in their senior class and mostly mid-tier and higher MD grads. I thought they had become less interested in DOs, but when I asked a friend there, it turned out the website wasn't updated and they had a couple DOs in their categorical PGY1 class.
 
Hey guys, I just decided I am going to do internal medicine. I am a DO student and am looking at some university programs in Nj/Pa/Fl. I scored a mid 220 on the usmle. I was wondering if I have any chance at matching or should I only look at community based programs? Thanks for your input.
 
Hey guys, I just decided I am going to do internal medicine. I am a DO student and am looking at some university programs in Nj/Pa/Fl. I scored a mid 220 on the usmle. I was wondering if I have any chance at matching or should I only look at community based programs? Thanks for your input.

You have every chance. Of course the rest of your application matters a lot too. But 220s is hardly a death knell. Its just about average.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Hey guys, I just decided I am going to do internal medicine. I am a DO student and am looking at some university programs in Nj/Pa/Fl. I scored a mid 220 on the usmle. I was wondering if I have any chance at matching or should I only look at community based programs? Thanks for your input.

As long the rest of your application is competitive and you show improvement on your Step 2 score, you'll be fine. I scored in the high 220s on Step 1, high 240s on Step 2 and had more interview invites (including PA and FL) than I was able to accept...and I matched!
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Hey guys, I just decided I am going to do internal medicine. I am a DO student and am looking at some university programs in Nj/Pa/Fl. I scored a mid 220 on the usmle. I was wondering if I have any chance at matching or should I only look at community based programs? Thanks for your input.

University programs that I know DO's interviewed at this past year

New Jersey
Robert Wood Johnson

Pennsylvania
Drexel
Jefferson
Temple

Florida
University of Florida - Jacksonville
University of Miami
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
University programs that I know DO's interviewed at this past year

New Jersey
Robert Wood Johnson

Pennsylvania
Drexel
Jefferson
Temple

Florida
University of Florida - Jacksonville
University of Miami

I'll add Penn State and USF to your list
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Hi!

Does anyone have opinions/information on additional potential programs in Massachusetts, Maryland, and New York?


Posted using SDN Mobile
 
University programs that I know DO's interviewed at this past year

New Jersey
Robert Wood Johnson

Pennsylvania
Drexel
Jefferson
Temple

Florida
University of Florida - Jacksonville
University of Miami

UPenn has a DO in their IM program right now.
 
Categorical or primary care track?

I'm not 100%, but I believe it's categorical. They matched from my school last year, and it was a big deal because it was the first time UPenn IM has ever taken a DO. I believe cliquesh has also mentioned it on SDN before too.
 
University programs I(a DO) had interviews at:

Minnesota
OHSU
Rush
Cincinnati
Arizona

Guess some are west of the Mississippi.

Seriously though, it's always great to know you've got a shot based on someone else's experiences, but if there's a particular program you're interested in you should apply. Sure, I got ignored by plenty of university programs, probably won't ever know if it was because I'm a DO or if I got screened for some other reason. But life is pretty boring if you prematurely limit yourself to what other people have accomplished in the past.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
University programs I(a DO) had interviews at:

Minnesota
OHSU
Rush
Cincinnati
Arizona

Guess some are west of the Mississippi.

Seriously though, it's always great to know you've got a shot based on someone else's experiences, but if there's a particular program you're interested in you should apply. Sure, I got ignored by plenty of university programs, probably won't ever know if it was because I'm a DO or if I got screened for some other reason. But life is pretty boring if you prematurely limit yourself to what other people have accomplished in the past.

I did this (limited myself to the typical DO ceiling) this year, the program I'm going to was one I looked at and didn't think I had any business even browsing their website. Decided it was pointless to apply, and then lo and behold, I SOAP'ed in.

Apply broadly to reaches, realistics, and safeties. Just like college, just like med school.
 
This.

While not university affiliated, they are DO friendly.

Nice. Although it doesn't even matter that they aren't university affiliated. They are arguably one of the best healthcare systems in the country lol.

I'm actually curious as to why they ARENT anti-DO
 
Nice. Although it doesn't even matter that they aren't university affiliated. They are arguably one of the best healthcare systems in the country lol.

I'm actually curious as to why they ARENT anti-DO


Best healthcare systems do not necessarily equal best residency training
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Nice. Although it doesn't even matter that they aren't university affiliated. They are arguably one of the best healthcare systems in the country lol.

I'm actually curious as to why they ARENT anti-DO
Lots of famous subspecialists and a fellow-run culture makes for poor training and an undesirable program. Neighboring programs like Case are much more competitive/desirable.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
Lots of famous subspecialists and a fellow-run culture makes for poor training and an undesirable program. Neighboring programs like Case are much more competitive/desirable.

Questionable statement. Your argument then assumes that to be true of any of the powerhouses (Harvard, UCSF, Mayo, etc etc).
 
Last edited:
Questionable statement. Your argument then assumes that to be true of any of the powerhouses (Harvard, UCSF, Mayo, etc etc).
Don't put words into my mouth. Many of the upper tier and elite programs (which CCF is not) provide fantastic training and the famous faculty are an asset. It all depends on the culture of the program and the culture at CCF is as I have described which is why they have trouble attracting good residency candidates.
 
Don't put words into my mouth. Many of the upper tier and elite programs (which CCF is not) provide fantastic training and the famous faculty are an asset. It all depends on the culture of the program and the culture at CCF is as I have described which is why they have trouble attracting good residency candidates.

Look at these rankings and tell me how on earth you believe the Cleveland Clinic isn't elite:

http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/oh/cleveland-clinic-6410670
 
Look at these rankings and tell me how on earth you believe the Cleveland Clinic isn't elite:

http://health.usnews.com/best-hospitals/area/oh/cleveland-clinic-6410670
Because that's not a ranking of residency programs.

EDIT: Just realized you're a pre-med from the other thread you made asking about going to a DO school or taking a chance on a post-bac program. Take it one step at a time there friend... worry about figuring out getting into med school first then in 3-4 years we can have this discussion.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Can we not turn this into yet another thread about CCF? It is a DO friendly internal medicine program which is technically NOT university affiliated. I think that is sufficient for this particular thread.

To add on to AldmadeDr's list, I received the following interviews as a DO applicant:
Mayo Clinic- Rochester
OHSU
U Colorado
Minnesota
CCF
VCU
Wake Forest
Indiana
SLU
KU
UIC
Loyola
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
@MeatTornado I'm going to assume you must think UPenn IM is weak too, as I believe there's a DO there as well
 
@MeatTornado I'm going to assume you must think UPenn IM is weak too, as I believe there's a DO there as well

I'm aware of this rumor. Noone has found evidence of this match on the Internet and even current students at the school this person was supposedly at don't know who it was that matched there or any details about the match:

UPenn has a DO in their IM program right now.
Categorical or primary care track?
I'm not 100%, but I believe it's categorical. They matched from my school last year, and it was a big deal because it was the first time UPenn IM has ever taken a DO. I believe cliquesh has also mentioned it on SDN before too.

…for all we know it may have been a prelim spot or at Pennsylvania Hospital. The possibilities are endless.
 
Who gives a **** whether a specific program is top/middle/low tier. 90% chances that it won't matter where you did your residency. A hospitalist who graduated from MGH will make the same salary as one who trained at some no-name program in rural Midwest. Regarding being competitive for fellowship, doing your residency training at mid-tier or even some low-tier program will do the job just fine.

Can't we just be content that almost none of our grads will be jobless and stop comparing our match lists to those of MD schools?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 users
Who gives a **** whether a specific program is top/middle/low tier. 90% chances that it won't matter where you did your residency. A hospitalist who graduated from MGH will make the same salary as one who trained at some no-name program in rural Midwest. Regarding being competitive for fellowship, doing your residency training at mid-tier or even some low-tier program will do the job just fine.

Can't we just be content that almost none of our grads will be jobless and stop comparing our match lists to those of MD schools?

Can I get an amen over here?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
Who gives a **** whether a specific program is top/middle/low tier. 90% chances that it won't matter where you did your residency. A hospitalist who graduated from MGH will make the same salary as one who trained at some no-name program in rural Midwest. Regarding being competitive for fellowship, doing your residency training at mid-tier or even some low-tier program will do the job just fine.

Can't we just be content that almost none of our grads will be jobless and stop comparing our match lists to those of MD schools?

BUT! University programs! we have to prove ourselves as good as MD! IT'S ALL ABOUT THE NAMES ON THE MATCH LIST!

/s
 
BUT! University programs! we have to prove ourselves as good as MD! IT'S ALL ABOUT THE NAMES ON THE MATCH LIST!

/s

I mean I have nothing against that. Everyone has their own priorities. For me, I just want to get my medical education and training done so I can go out there, save people and alleviate their pain while making decent living. I admire research and I'm fascinated by medical innovations, but those are not things I want to do as a career. I'm very sure this is what most of DO and MD students want, so I don't get the reason behind this pissing contest.
 
I mean I have nothing against that. Everyone has their own priorities. For me, I just want to get my medical education and training done so I can go out there, save people and alleviate their pain while making decent living. I admire research and I'm fascinated by medical innovations, but those are not things I want to do as a career. I'm very sure this is what most of DO and MD students want, so I don't get the reason behind this pissing contest.

/s means sarcasm
 
Top