Do I stay or go? Ph.D to MD

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

scm70

Full Member
7+ Year Member
Joined
Jul 22, 2014
Messages
41
Reaction score
41
Hi all,

While this may not be the most appropriate forum to post this on, I wanted to reach out for some completely objective third-party opinions on my current situation. I am a third year Ph.D student in molecular virology and I have not been happy with my situation for a while. After a lot of thought (and tears) I decided that I wanted to pursue medical school instead. I discussed my feelings with my PI who blamed my sadness on the "Ph.D blues" and quickly dropped the subject. I've taken my MCAT and have done nearly 100 hours of volunteering and shadowing at a local children's hospital and have come to conclusion that medicine is my true passion. I'm planning on applying next year (2015 cycle), but there is a problem. At this point I'm fairly certain I won't be able to finished my Ph.D before matriculating in 2016 (as of right now I do have enough credits to get a Master's). I'm wondering admissions committees are going to look down upon quitting with Master's now and pursuing other passions while I'm applying (I feel like I would by happier but this may be more difficult). I'm also wondering whether I can continue in my Ph.D program and just quit with a Master's if I get accepted to school (basically can I matriculate without a Ph.D if that's the degree that I'm pursuing at the time of application?). Hopefully this post isn't too confusing. I would appreciate any feedback! :)

Many thanks!

Members don't see this ad.
 
Do both. It's a safer option. You are almost done with your phd, so I don't see any reason for quitting now. You can combine them like many of us here.
 
Most importantly: you need to leave with a degree before you can matriculate. No degree (phd or masters) no matriculation!

You need transparency with your committee. If you are 100% on this path, be open with them and ask them for help, which would be leaving with a terminal masters as they are the ones that make that decision. I would think you would have 3 options, 1. leave. 2. terminal masters or 3. PhD. You choose one now, not one contingent on med school admission. There is too much that has to be done between now and graduation for your decision to waver for a year. Further, absolutely do not fret if they look down upon you, its your life not theirs. Worst case scenario, you don't talk with them until its too late and you can't matriculate because med schools will require you to leave with a degree. Best case scenario, you have their blessings and you get into medical school next year.

I think the elephant in the room is, how far are you from your PhD? If its 1 year, stick it out as PhD >>>>>>> masters. If you are 3-4 years out, you may want to reconsider research in order expedite your medical school application. That said, if you are applying MD/DO for next year you need to apply now. Do not delay.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
My advice is that if you're going to finish with a master's, make sure your graduate school is ok with that plan and doesn't want to make it clear that you started on a PhD program and changed your mind. These applicants are frequently viewed as "damaged goods" who can't stick with what they started and are more likely to leave the medical pathway as well. It's not fair, but it is true. If you're going to burn bridges by leaving with a master's, you should finish the PhD. Either way keep in mind that you need a high MCAT score and the rest of your application, including undergraduate grades, needs to be competitive with other applicants.
 
My advice is that if you're going to finish with a master's, make sure your graduate school is ok with that plan and doesn't want to make it clear that you started on a PhD program and changed your mind. These applicants are frequently viewed as "damaged goods" who can't stick with what they started and are more likely to leave the medical pathway as well. It's not fair, but it is true. If you're going to burn bridges by leaving with a master's, you should finish the PhD. Either way keep in mind that you need a high MCAT score and the rest of your application, including undergraduate grades, needs to be competitive with other applicants.
I'd say it depends on how long it will take the OP to finish the PhD (likely 3+ years if the OP is a new third year), and how committed the OP is to the PhD (sounds like not very) and to the MD (says yes, very).

What the committee or the grad school thinks is irrelevant as long as they will grant the MS. I do agree that it's a bad thing to burn bridges with the PI, as this person should ideally be asked for a LOR. But it is very common for MD-only applicants to have dropped out of PhD programs. All the OP has to say is that s/he realized that research wasn't for him/her. Certainly it's hard to argue that two years of grad school wasn't giving research a fair chance.

OP, I do want to re-emphasize Neuro's point that you will need to have all the same app prerequisites, including strong stats, expected of any other applicant, regardless of whether you leave with a PhD or an MS.
 
What the committee or the grad school thinks is irrelevant as long as they will grant the MS. I do agree that it's a bad thing to burn bridges with the PI, as this person should ideally be asked for a LOR.

IMO, in med school admissions knowing that someone dropped a PhD for an MS is damaging though not insurmountable. The LOR is going to be a big deal here. Everyone is going to expect it. A bad LOR that makes you sound like a failure or absence of a LOR from your master's program may actually be insurmountable. I do recognize that slogging through another 3 years of a PhD you hate is sub-optimal also. It's a tough position to be in. The best way to recover is to pretend as if the MS was the pathway all along. You don't necessarily need to lie about it, but nobody needs to offer information to contrary.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
IMO, in med school admissions knowing that someone dropped a PhD for an MS is damaging though not insurmountable. The LOR is going to be a big deal here. Everyone is going to expect it. A bad LOR that makes you sound like a failure or absence of a LOR from your master's program may actually be insurmountable. I do recognize that slogging through another 3 years of a PhD you hate is sub-optimal also. It's a tough position to be in. The best way to recover is to pretend as if the MS was the pathway all along. You don't necessarily need to lie about it, but nobody needs to offer information to contrary.
Why is a dropped phd with a completion of a MS damaged goods? I agree, usually in the sciences an MS degree means you couldn't cut it, but its very common students realize the PhD is not their calling. As long as you are responsible about it, get the degree, ADCOMs don't need to know the difference. Someone who enters a PhD program at 21 shouldn't be held responsible for realizing that the PhD road wasn't for them. Frankly, on this note, I would recommend all students taking a few years off to make sure whatever pathway they choose, is their desired pathway.

I think the bolded is the truth of the matter. On my application I vaguely recalling that I could write whatever I wanted for my education. Further, many MS students are on a 3 year tract, and TONS of my peers hold MS degrees in a variety of fields.

The most important thing is that you get a positive LOR from your advisor.
 
You're not damaged goods. It's not ideal, but not a huge blemish. I agree with everything else written here. A few things to consider:

1) How much more would you have to work to get your PhD. If you think you can do it in a 1-1.5 years before matriculation, then I also think you should stick it out.

2) Make you sure you are a competitive applicant. It would be terrible to drop your PhD and then not be able to get it in so that you have a year of doing nothing. You can ask here, or see if you can't have a meeting with the dean of admissions locally. They probably don't normally meet with applicants but in your case since you are different than most undergrads you might get a review of your app.

3) Have another heart-to-heart. Be honest. Tell them its not for you (research) and you feel medicine is your calling and ask them for their help. They are probably going to be a little unhappy you didn't get a paper out after investing time/money into you. But you need a positive LOR.

Good luck
 
Why is a dropped phd with a completion of a MS damaged goods?

Because med school and residency also really suck at times, and so a medical school candidate should have a record of making well reasoned decisions upfront and then sticking things through. The difference between grad school and med school is that quitting or failing from med school or residency is financially devastating for the student and looks bad on the medical school. No medical school wants more medical student suicides when a student can't handle it. These are the sorts of thoughts we're talking about here, and whether they're fair to the op's situation is unknown.

At least if you didn't complete the PhD program you started, it's important that things were handled responsibly. Hence the positive LOR.
 
Hi all,
While this may not be the most appropriate forum to post this on, I wanted to reach out for some completely objective third-party opinions on my current situation. I am a third year Ph.D student in molecular virology and I have not been happy with my situation for a while. After a lot of thought (and tears) I decided that I wanted to pursue medical school instead. I discussed my feelings with my PI who blamed my sadness on the "Ph.D blues" and quickly dropped the subject. I've taken my MCAT and have done nearly 100 hours of volunteering and shadowing at a local children's hospital and have come to conclusion that medicine is my true passion. I'm planning on applying next year (2015 cycle), but there is a problem. At this point I'm fairly certain I won't be able to finished my Ph.D before matriculating in 2016 (as of right now I do have enough credits to get a Master's). I'm wondering admissions committees are going to look down upon quitting with Master's now and pursuing other passions while I'm applying (I feel like I would by happier but this may be more difficult). I'm also wondering whether I can continue in my Ph.D program and just quit with a Master's if I get accepted to school (basically can I matriculate without a Ph.D if that's the degree that I'm pursuing at the time of application?). Hopefully this post isn't too confusing. I would appreciate any feedback!
upload_2014-8-19_23-18-34.png

Many thanks!

:welcome: I saw your post in the Physician Scientist forums and just wanted to offer you my experience. I went through sort of a similar situation last year. I'm currently a 5th year student in graduate school and will be getting my PhD next year in May, but I encountered such a struggle in my 4th year. I've always wanted to go to medicine. I honestly did the PhD because I had a strong interest in research, bombed my first MCAT verbal section in 2008 and was really young when I first applied to medical school.

To briefly tell you my story, I had a great project and was wildly successful until a research lull approached (everyone knows them) and didn't go away. Then I found out I was studying a complete artifact for the past 3 years and I started a new related project after MONTHS of stagnancy because my advisor refused to give me a new project and held on to the old one that I knew was going to get me nowhere. This new project failed as well. Months of no project still. I was also studying for the MCAT in this period and this created a lot of strain between my advisor and me. This was a very difficult time because I just delayed my plans by ~3 years and would now not be able to graduate with my PhD for at LEAST another 2 years. However, I got a 36 on the MCAT and so I seriously contemplated quitting my PhD, getting a Masters, and applying to medical school right then and there. Half of my support network told me to get my Masters and apply that same year, and the other half told me to wait. It was late in the cycle and I wouldn't get a good letter from my advisor... and one year could change a lot, so I decided to wait. I didn't want to burn bridges (like others are warning you of above) and I still wanted to do research in the future, so I suppose now it looks like a no brainer that I should have waited for a year before applying to medical school (which I did). But as you may be experiencing right now, it gets really difficult and such decisions can be clouded by frustration and anxiety.

When I started my third and current project (totally different area) just before starting my fourth year, things improved significantly between my advisor and me, and I've been very productive and this project is awesome. I got a great letter from my advisor (word of mouth) and I applied for the 2015 cycle to great success so far. My committee and my advisor know that I will be graduating in May of next year, and we have an understanding of the amount of work I must complete to graduate in time to matriculate next year in the fall to be able to go to medical school. It's been a long road, but that's research for you, and I've learnt a lot and matured significantly in this process... I've become a stronger, more scientifically cautious and more nuanced person. :love:

Now, every PhD situation is different and the solution to your issue depends on a couple things. As QofQuimica (a legend here, btw) explained, you will NOT be able to deceive medical schools by forgoing your PhD at the last minute when they think you're going to matriculate with it! Even getting a deferral may not be easy. I know your situation and I've been there and considered it at the urging of my parents, but trust me, it won't work and it's not worth the awkwardness and anguish of having your admission revoked. :uhno:

Now onto viable options. First off, as many people are asking, how many years away from earning your PhD are you? Second, what are your expectations as to joining an MD program (rank, etc.?) Depending on your MCAT score, you may be able to "make up" for the blemish that is quitting your PhD program.

Note that I don't think this is a huge problem as long as you are clear with yourself that those hurdles won't repeat in medical school. That is, were your reasons for being unhappy with your PhD specific to this track of study (bad project, uncooperative advisor, a combination of both, etc.) or did you rush into a PhD and not think things through well enough? If the latter is the case, you need to do some soul searching and make sure you will be able to stand difficult times in medical school and residency and beyond.

Importantly, you need to try your best to not burn bridges and to get positive LORs form your advisor and maybe relevant faculty that will vouch for your interest in medical school. I do agree with posters above suggesting that you pretend that you aimed for the masters all along but I advise you to be frank with your LOR writers about your omission so that they don't confuse adcoms by telling them you were aiming for a PhD. This can be tricky to navigate but I think a clear dialogue will be important to prevent miscommunications or misunderstandings.

Also, make sure you don't blame anyone but yourself (if at all blame is necessary) in your application! I left out all the messy drama from my difficult time for obvious reasons and talked about my first failures in research in a very professional manner. I didn't bring up any issues I had with my advisor at the time. This isn't relevant and makes you look immature no matter how real those problems are to you. This is very important in my opinion.

Now, onto another dilemma. Assuming you decide to get your Masters, you can spin it to medical schools as a positive, reinforcing experience or as an experience that taught you that research wasn't for you and that medicine is. I am personally spinning my story as a teaching experience and emphasizing my experience in research as complementary to my interest in medicine, and this is advantageous since I am applying to mostly top 20 research-heavy schools. But you have to remember that your enthusiasm or lack thereof will show through in your research record and interviews, so my advice is to be honest and only slightly sugarcoat things (if necessary). Yes, it is more attractive generally to have an applicant that enjoyed her relatively nontraditional venture into “insert-EC-here” (like a PhD or Masters), but let’s face it, there’s also power in saying you tried something, didn’t like it and found your true calling in medicine. So you can spin it either way to your advantage. I would just do something really “you” in the year after your Masters to empower you and your application so you can have something passionate to write and talk about. I personally feel that many successful applications have that focal point, for me its research and cancer, as I have elaborated above, but for you it could probably be something else. You just have to find this elusive feature and exploit it to your full advantage if you can’t do that with research.

I’ve been very lucky to have bounced back in a situation where I can get my PhD, and have all of these puzzle pieces ultimately fall together. If you ever need to talk, I’m open to PM’ing and to giving more advice if you need it. Sorry for this long post, but I wish I had someone tell me what you are hearing here on this forum, and so I wanted to help. I applaud you for seeking advice from us, and I hope this serves you well. Good luck and take care. Keep us posted, we’re rooting for you! :xf::clap:
 
IMO, in med school admissions knowing that someone dropped a PhD for an MS is damaging though not insurmountable. The LOR is going to be a big deal here. Everyone is going to expect it. A bad LOR that makes you sound like a failure or absence of a LOR from your master's program may actually be insurmountable. I do recognize that slogging through another 3 years of a PhD you hate is sub-optimal also. It's a tough position to be in. The best way to recover is to pretend as if the MS was the pathway all along. You don't necessarily need to lie about it, but nobody needs to offer information to contrary.
Perfect advice! I think I should have been as succinct as this :)
 
Hi all,

While this may not be the most appropriate forum to post this on, I wanted to reach out for some completely objective third-party opinions on my current situation. I am a third year Ph.D student in molecular virology and I have not been happy with my situation for a while. After a lot of thought (and tears) I decided that I wanted to pursue medical school instead. I discussed my feelings with my PI who blamed my sadness on the "Ph.D blues" and quickly dropped the subject. I've taken my MCAT and have done nearly 100 hours of volunteering and shadowing at a local children's hospital and have come to conclusion that medicine is my true passion. I'm planning on applying next year (2015 cycle), but there is a problem. At this point I'm fairly certain I won't be able to finished my Ph.D before matriculating in 2016 (as of right now I do have enough credits to get a Master's). I'm wondering admissions committees are going to look down upon quitting with Master's now and pursuing other passions while I'm applying (I feel like I would by happier but this may be more difficult). I'm also wondering whether I can continue in my Ph.D program and just quit with a Master's if I get accepted to school (basically can I matriculate without a Ph.D if that's the degree that I'm pursuing at the time of application?). Hopefully this post isn't too confusing. I would appreciate any feedback! :)

Many thanks!

Any updates on your situation, OP?
 
Top