DO interested in CC

[BMW19]

I am glad they started this forum, hard to get any answers in the subspec. forum of IM. I am a DO student interested in Critical Care. I am only a first year so I am hoping someone can clarify this for me:

I think I want to do an IM residency followed by a CC fellowship (no pulm). Since I am a DO would I have to do the 1 yr rot internship+3 yrs of IM+2yrs of CC which would encompass 6 yrs more of training post medical school!! Any help would be appreciated.

BMW-

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[neutropenic]

I think it's 3 years of medicine followed by the fellowship. You can usually find a medicine program somewhere where your 1st year counts as your 1st year of IM also which is important if you are in one of those states that requires a trad AOA rotating internship.

 

[BMW19]

Thanks for the reply. So most of the AOA programs will count the first year of IM as the rot. internship? Why won't they do this for say EM? My understanding is that if you want to do EM you must do the 1yr. rot internship plus 3yrs EM. This AOA stuff is confusing.....

I think it's 3 years of medicine followed by the fellowship. You can usually find a medicine program somewhere where your 1st year counts as your 1st year of IM also which is important if you are in one of those states that requires a trad AOA rotating internship.

 

[Taus]

it is rare for anyone to do an extra year....except EM and maybe a few others (I've heard neuro?)....though there are a decent amt. of 4 year allo EM programs too

 

[Sugar72]

Thanks for the reply. So most of the AOA programs will count the first year of IM as the rot. internship? Why won't they do this for say EM? My understanding is that if you want to do EM you must do the 1yr. rot internship plus 3yrs EM. This AOA stuff is confusing.....

I want to preface my response by saying - I am going into anesthesiology not IM, so someone doing that route might have more specific information - but from my research and experience it depends on what state and what program you are in for your residency, if you care about completing the rotating internship - I am not doing one. In addition, CCOM (in chicago) is opening an osteopathic critical care fellowship.

Your first decision is whether or not you want to go AOA for your IM residency. Then if not - you need to decide if you want to do an AOA approved PGY1. When you are interviewing at allopathic programs - see if they have other DO's in the program and see if they have tried to get their pgy-1 approved by the aoa. There are certain criteria - but being in a state that doesn't have any AOA opportunities is the best criteria to meet.

The question about aoa rotating internship is addressed very thoroughly in the osteopathic forum - do a search over there and you will have a lot of your questions answered. You have lots of time to make these decisions and the facts might change in the next 4 years so just keep abreast of the situation.

As far as the fellowship training - the faq's address that. Even though CCOM is opening a critical care fellowship ( or has one already - I don't know the time frame), most of the fellowship opportunities in any field are through allopathic institutions, so an allopathic residency is very helpful.
Glad to hear you are interested - good luck.

 

[BMW19]

Sugar,

Thanks for the reply. I have done searches upon searches about this AOA 1 yr. required internship and I mostly get outdated information. I guess my specific Q was regarding AOA approved tracks. I should have made that more clear. Put simply, I just wanted to know if it is going to take me 6 years post med school to complete an IM residency+CC fellowship (no pulm).

Plus what is the fun of having a brand new CC forum just so I can "go do a search"

BMW-

I want to preface my response by saying - I am going into anesthesiology not IM, so someone doing that route might have more specific information - but from my research and experience it depends on what state and what program you are in for your residency, if you care about completing the rotating internship - I am not doing one. In addition, CCOM (in chicago) is opening an osteopathic critical care fellowship.

Your first decision is whether or not you want to go AOA for your IM residency. Then if not - you need to decide if you want to do an AOA approved PGY1. When you are interviewing at allopathic programs - see if they have other DO's in the program and see if they have tried to get their pgy-1 approved by the aoa. There are certain criteria - but being in a state that doesn't have any AOA opportunities is the best criteria to meet.

The question about aoa rotating internship is addressed very thoroughly in the osteopathic forum - do a search over there and you will have a lot of your questions answered. You have lots of time to make these decisions and the facts might change in the next 4 years so just keep abreast of the situation.

As far as the fellowship training - the faq's address that. Even though CCOM is opening a critical care fellowship ( or has one already - I don't know the time frame), most of the fellowship opportunities in any field are through allopathic institutions, so an allopathic residency is very helpful.
Glad to hear you are interested - good luck.

 

[Sugar72]

Sugar,

Thanks for the reply. I have done searches upon searches about this AOA 1 yr. required internship and I mostly get outdated information. I guess my specific Q was regarding AOA approved tracks. I should have made that more clear. Put simply, I just wanted to know if it is going to take me 6 years post med school to complete an IM residency+CC fellowship (no pulm).

Plus what is the fun of having a brand new CC forum just so I can "go do a search"

BMW-

Simple answer is "it depends" You should definitely look at which programs are dually accredited in 2 years when you are applying for a residency. Any info you find now will only be outdated by that time anyway.

 

[CBrack]

I am glad they started this forum, hard to get any answers in the subspec. forum of IM. I am a DO student interested in Critical Care. I am only a first year so I am hoping someone can clarify this for me:

I think I want to do an IM residency followed by a CC fellowship (no pulm). Since I am a DO would I have to do the 1 yr rot internship+3 yrs of IM+2yrs of CC which would encompass 6 yrs more of training post medical school!! Any help would be appreciated.

BMW-

If you do a allopathic or osteopathic residency in internal medicine this will take a total of 3 yrs + 2yr CCM fellowship = 5yrs

Note: Osteopathic IM residencies count the first year as internship + your PGY1 equvalent.

E

 

[BMW19]

Thanks E that is what I wanted to know. The only CC fellowship that was AOA that I could find was at UMDNJ and somewhere in Michigan
Any others on the rise besides what sugar mentioned in Chicago?

B-

If you do a allopathic or osteopathic residency in internal medicine this will take a total of 3 yrs + 2yr CCM fellowship = 5yrs

Note: Osteopathic IM residencies count the first year as internship + your PGY1 equvalent.

E

 

[CBrack]

The UMNDJ is only PULM/CC not just CC, I know this for a fact as I contacted them regarding their program a couple years ago.

The chicago CCOM/Midwestern University fellowship in CCM is starting this year. It actually is one of the oldest CCM programs in the country but their affiliation has been with the Chicago Medical School (Pritzker) but has now affiliated with CCOM. A strange trial of events but none the less.
The director is Dr Gluck whom is well known in the CCM community and has published extensively in the field.
This is more of a community based CCM fellowship and actually the only CCM fellowship left in chicago since RUSH's program folded in 2005.
This is also the only osteopathic CCM fellowship.

Also check out the ACOI (American College of Osteopathic Internal Medicine) website. Here you can research specific AOA IM programs and fellowships along with their respective program descriptions. FYI: The ACOI is equvalent to the ABEM but on a much smaller scale.

Hope this helps,
CB

Thanks E that is what I wanted to know. The only CC fellowship that was AOA that I could find was at UMDNJ and somewhere in Michigan
Any others on the rise besides what sugar mentioned in Chicago?

B-

 

[CBrack]

FYI:
You also can do a AOA residency and do a allopathic fellowship in CCM.
I am currently finishing my PGY5 of IM/EM at CCOM and will be starting a fellowship in CCM at UPMC in 2007.

Another classmate, a year ahead of me finished the same residency and is just now finishing his first year as a CCM fellow at LSU.

This also goes for any fellowship: for example if you do an AMA IM program you can apply for either AOA or AMA fellowships. I know several individuals who have taken both routes.

The bottom line is do your residency wherever you prefer AOA or AMA and if you work hard you should not have a problem finding a spot in a top CCM fellowship.



**One last thing is that if you train at an allopathic IM program it is not AT ALL difficult to have this approved by the AOA.

I want to preface my response by saying - I am going into anesthesiology not IM, so someone doing that route might have more specific information - but from my research and experience it depends on what state and what program you are in for your residency, if you care about completing the rotating internship - I am not doing one. In addition, CCOM (in chicago) is opening an osteopathic critical care fellowship.

Your first decision is whether or not you want to go AOA for your IM residency. Then if not - you need to decide if you want to do an AOA approved PGY1. When you are interviewing at allopathic programs - see if they have other DO's in the program and see if they have tried to get their pgy-1 approved by the aoa. There are certain criteria - but being in a state that doesn't have any AOA opportunities is the best criteria to meet.

The question about aoa rotating internship is addressed very thoroughly in the osteopathic forum - do a search over there and you will have a lot of your questions answered. You have lots of time to make these decisions and the facts might change in the next 4 years so just keep abreast of the situation.

As far as the fellowship training - the faq's address that. Even though CCOM is opening a critical care fellowship ( or has one already - I don't know the time frame), most of the fellowship opportunities in any field are through allopathic institutions, so an allopathic residency is very helpful.
Glad to hear you are interested - good luck.

 

[Sugar72]

FYI:


The bottom line is do your residency wherever you prefer AOA or AMA and if you work hard you should not have a problem finding a spot in a top CCM fellowship.



**One last thing is that if you train at an allopathic IM program it is not AT ALL difficult to have this approved by the AOA.

This is really great to hear! The buzz around some of the IM AZCOM peeps in my class was that you HAD to go AMA for residency to get an allopathic fellowship. I guess people tend to get stressed out at match time and overdramatize things! Congratulations.
I bet your friend at LSU had an eventful year! I did CCM at Ochsner right before the hurricane and there is an LSU CCM fellow on that service - my fellow was an MD though.

 

[BMW19]

Cbrack,

This is the info straight from their website. From what I see it looks like they do separate Pulm and CC. Maybe they have changed things since you applied.

BMW-

http://som.umdnj.edu/education/academic_program/gme/gme_fellowships.html

The UMNDJ is only PULM/CC not just CC, I know this for a fact as I contacted them regarding their program a couple years ago.

The chicago CCOM/Midwestern University fellowship in CCM is starting this year. It actually is one of the oldest CCM programs in the country but their affiliation has been with the Chicago Medical School (Pritzker) but has now affiliated with CCOM. A strange trial of events but none the less.
The director is Dr Gluck whom is well known in the CCM community and has published extensively in the field.
This is more of a community based CCM fellowship and actually the only CCM fellowship left in chicago since RUSH's program folded in 2005.
This is also the only osteopathic CCM fellowship.

Also check out the ACOI (American College of Osteopathic Internal Medicine) website. Here you can research specific AOA IM programs and fellowships along with their respective program descriptions. FYI: The ACOI is equvalent to the ABEM but on a much smaller scale.

Hope this helps,
CB