Do medical schools indirectly prefer rich/wealthy applicants?

[MsFutureDr]

I haven't done any research on this. I'm just wondering. So i'm sure every medical school out there promotes diversity in their mission and vision statement...students from various socioeconomic backgrounds. But if you think about about it, If completing medical school is costing more than a quarter million dollars, who is more likely to apply to medical school? The rich and wealthy applicants, right? It's not like medical schools are offering full ride scholarships for low income and middle income applicants. I'm sure medical schools will sell "you'll make that money someday and pay it back"...but a debt is never a good thing...if you can avoid it all together avoid it. With the current Federal law you cannot file bankruptcy on students loans. If you a highly competitive applicant from a disadvantaged background, more than likely you are facing numerous challenges as it is at home. The added stress of a huge debt accumulation makes it tough to pursue your dream. There are other costs associated in the pre-med process with no guarantee you will make it. It's an expensive risk for some. That's a heavy burden for a 21 year old. If you are a rich or a wealthy applicant, you can afford to take the risk regardless of the outcome.

Also, I wonder if there are any stats out there on how diverse medical schools really are based on income. I wonder if medical schools reveal this information? I have a friend who is a physician from a very disadvantaged background. She was offered loans with high interest by the medical school as part of their diversity loan program. She didn't know at 21 years old that was not a good offer. It's too late now.

I have many close friends and family members who are physicians still paying back that debt and it's a heavy burden. I remember working with a pediatrician, she was so excited because she just signed her last check to pay off her debt. She was about 50 years old. She attend medical school as a traditional student.

Also, have medical schools considered including a personal financial management course as part of the medical school curriculum?

Don't get me wrong, if you know in your heart you want to be a physician, I say go for it. That high debt should not prevent you from pursuing your goal regardless of your background. But it just seems to me the whole system is designed to attract the rich and wealthy applicants.

excuse my typos

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[beBrave]

I haven't done any research on this. I'm just wondering. So i'm sure every medical school out there promotes diversity in their mission and vision statement...students from various socioeconomic backgrounds. But if you think about about it, If completing medical school is costing more than a quarter million dollars, who is more likely to apply to medical school? The rich and wealthy applicants, right? It's not like medical schools are offering full ride scholarships for low income and middle income applicants. I'm sure medical schools will sell "you'll make that money someday and pay it back"...but a debt is never a good thing...if you can avoid it all together avoid it. With the current Federal law you cannot file bankruptcy on students loans. If you a highly competitive applicant from a disadvantaged background, more than likely you are facing numerous challenges as it is at home. The added stress of a huge debt accumulation makes it tough to pursue your dream. There are other costs associated in the pre-med process with no guarantee you will make it. It's an expensive risk for some. That's a heavy burden for a 21 year old. If you are a rich or a wealthy applicant, you can afford to take the risk regardless of the outcome.

Also, I wonder if there are any stats out there on how diverse medical schools really are based on income. I wonder if medical schools reveal this information? I have a friend who is a physician from a very disadvantaged background. She was offered loans with high interest by the medical school as part of their diversity loan program. She didn't know at 21 years old that was not a good offer. It's too late now.

I have many close friends and family members who are physicians still paying back that debt and it's a heavy burden. I remember working with a pediatrician, she was so excited because she just signed her last check to pay off her debt. She was about 50 years old. She attend medical school as a traditional student.

Also, have medical schools considered including a personal financial management course as part of the medical school curriculum?

Don't get me wrong, if you know in your heart you want to be a physician, I say go for it. That high debt should not prevent you from pursuing your goal regardless of your background. But it just seems to me the whole system is designed to attract the rich and wealthy applicants.

excuse my typos

Medical schools will typically work with you to find methods for payment. Med school is definitely not for a bunch of rich kids. I remember talking to an Admissions director yesterday and him explaining the importance of a well rounded applicant. I know money is often a huge factor however I have an associate that went to podiatry school on a scholarship due to his difficult background. The point is, the school will do its best to help you find a way to pay for the cost.

There is always talk of changing the system, however it is not likely to happen anytime in the immediate future as there are simply so many applicants. Paying back student loans for 15 - 20 years isn't uncommon. Many Physicians may choose to live comfortably and pay back smaller amounts over the course of many years; kinda treating the loans as a smaller expense. Why should they rush to repay loans when that money could be better invested in purchasing a home or setting money aside for there children's futures? You point out that your friend is 21 however she would probably not be repaying these loans until 4-5 years after completing med school if she defers them during her residency.

Check out this article below:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703389004575033063806327030.html

Med schools risky, but so is any other field. $150k a year with $500k student loans vs someone with $70k in student loans making $40k - 50k a year. The person making $150k with 500k in debt still has the advantage. Yes they will pay more but they can still eat; the guy with $70k in loans may have to sacrifice a lot more. Sadly it is up to young people to do their research when taking out loans, explore all options (especially those unforeseen such as scholarships) and then make an educated decision. The cost of education has skyrocketed at public universities and private alike; forget about medicine, the cost of education has gone up for everyone. Medical schools should not be singled out for this. On the contrary, roughly 95% of entering medical school students will complete the program, while in comparison only something like 50 - 60 % of students at even some of the best universities will actually earn a degree. One way or another, medical school still looks like a solid investment despite the high cost and the risk; the odds are tipped better in a Doctors favor when comparing other options.

 

[mulberry]

Medical schools will typically work with you to find methods for payment. Med school is definitely not for a bunch of rich kids. I remember talking to an Admissions director yesterday and him explaining the importance of a well rounded applicant. I know money is often a huge factor however I have an associate that went to podiatry school on a scholarship due to his difficult background. The point is, the school will do its best to help you find a way to pay for the cost.

There is always talk of changing the system, however it is not likely to happen anytime in the immediate future as there are simply so many applicants. Paying back student loans for 15 - 20 years isn't uncommon. Many Physicians may choose to live comfortably and pay back smaller amounts over the course of many years; kinda treating the loans as a smaller expense. Why should they rush to repay loans when that money could be better invested in purchasing a home or setting money aside for there children's futures? You point out that your friend is 21 however she would probably not be repaying these loans until 4-5 years after completing med school if she defers them during her residency.

Check out this article below:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703389004575033063806327030.html

Med schools risky, but so is any other field. $150k a year with $500k student loans vs someone with $70k in student loans making $40k - 50k a year. The person making $150k with 500k in debt still has the advantage. Yes they will pay more but they can still eat; the guy with $70k in loans may have to sacrifice a lot more. Sadly it is up to young people to do their research when taking out loans, explore all options (especially those unforeseen such as scholarships) and then make an educated decision. The cost of education has skyrocketed at public universities and private alike; forget about medicine, the cost of education has gone up for everyone. Medical schools should not be singled out for this. On the contrary, roughly 95% of entering medical school students will complete the program, while in comparison only something like 50 - 60 % of students at even some of the best universities will actually earn a degree. One way or another, medical school still looks like a solid investment despite the high cost and the risk; the odds are tipped better in a Doctors favor when comparing other options.

U wot m8?

Where did you pull this statistic from? Proof, please. This is way off.

 

[slz1900]

I don't think there's any question that medical school is a rich person's game, but not because of debt. I remember seeing an aamc report that said the vast majority of matriculants, I'm going to guess it was around 90%, came from families earning more than 150k a year. In real life, pretty much everyone takes an mcat course costing 2000 dollars, they pursue a lot of extracurriculars that aren't possible if you have to earn money to support yourself, they pay for the application process which can easily cost more than 5000 dollars, etc.

Debt sucks, but it doesn't prevent you from going to medical school, and taking out even 200k when you know you're going to be a physician is not a bad move. On the other hand, not having resources and lots of $$ at your disposal definitely can impede the process. And a lot of medical schools say they want socioeconomic diversity, but let's face it, a lot of people want to be doctors and if schools wanted to prioritize giving spots to lower income people (who may have scored lower on the mcat because they didn't have a prep course, or who don't have great odds of admission because they could only fly to two interviews), they could, but right now, from my admittedly ignorant vantage point, it seems that they don't.

 

[beBrave]

U wot m8?

Where did you pull this statistic from? Proof, please. This is way off.

Here is one of the breakdowns that I read:

http://economix.blogs.nytimes.com/2...st-time-college-students-graduate-in-6-years/

 

[Beargryllz]

I think the ECs and academic requirements make it a rich person's game

Who volunteers hundreds or a thousand hours if they have bills to pay and kids to feed?

Where is this undergraduate degree mandated before consideration for medical school coming from?

Money makes it very possible to get into medical school

 

[MsFutureDr]

Medical schools will typically work with you to find methods for payment. Med school is definitely not for a bunch of rich kids. I remember talking to an Admissions director yesterday and him explaining the importance of a well rounded applicant. I know money is often a huge factor however I have an associate that went to podiatry school on a scholarship due to his difficult background. The point is, the school will do its best to help you find a way to pay for the cost.

There is always talk of changing the system, however it is not likely to happen anytime in the immediate future as there are simply so many applicants. Paying back student loans for 15 - 20 years isn't uncommon. Many Physicians may choose to live comfortably and pay back smaller amounts over the course of many years; kinda treating the loans as a smaller expense. Why should they rush to repay loans when that money could be better invested in purchasing a home or setting money aside for there children's futures? You point out that your friend is 21 however she would probably not be repaying these loans until 4-5 years after completing med school if she defers them during her residency.

Check out this article below:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703389004575033063806327030.html

Med schools risky, but so is any other field. $150k a year with $500k student loans vs someone with $70k in student loans making $40k - 50k a year. The person making $150k with 500k in debt still has the advantage. Yes they will pay more but they can still eat; the guy with $70k in loans may have to sacrifice a lot more. Sadly it is up to young people to do their research when taking out loans, explore all options (especially those unforeseen such as scholarships) and then make an educated decision. The cost of education has skyrocketed at public universities and private alike; forget about medicine, the cost of education has gone up for everyone. Medical schools should not be singled out for this. On the contrary, roughly 95% of entering medical school students will complete the program, while in comparison only something like 50 - 60 % of students at even some of the best universities will actually earn a degree. One way or another, medical school still looks like a solid investment despite the high cost and the risk; the odds are tipped better in a Doctors favor when comparing other options.

I'm certain they do. What type of assistance are we talking about here? One has to be careful because financial assistance in certain situations may just be a double-edged sword. Let just say a medical school offers a 10% interest a 250k loan to a 21 year. if you do the math on repayment, it's borderline criminal! The school is essentially in business with the Banks with that type of offer right?

 

[Wanderlove]

I hope not. I come from a poor and uneducated family. My parents were both mailmen. Now my dad is deceased and my mom lives on disability benefits. I refuse to let my background deter me from seeking a medical education though. I'm really glad the FAP exists. That in itself shows that economically disadvantaged people aren't totally discouraged from applying.

 

[mievans]

I don't think there's any question that medical school is a rich person's game, but not because of debt. I remember seeing an aamc report that said the vast majority of matriculants, I'm going to guess it was around 90%, came from families earning more than 150k a year. In real life, pretty much everyone takes an mcat course costing 2000 dollars, they pursue a lot of extracurriculars that aren't possible if you have to earn money to support yourself, they pay for the application process which can easily cost more than 5000 dollars, etc.

Debt sucks, but it doesn't prevent you from going to medical school, and taking out even 200k when you know you're going to be a physician is not a bad move. On the other hand, not having resources and lots of $$ at your disposal definitely can impede the process. And a lot of medical schools say they want socioeconomic diversity, but let's face it, a lot of people want to be doctors and if schools wanted to prioritize giving spots to lower income people (who may have scored lower on the mcat because they didn't have a prep course, or who don't have great odds of admission because they could only fly to two interviews), they could, but right now, from my admittedly ignorant vantage point, it seems that they don't.

My sentiments exactly

 

[MsFutureDr]

I don't think there's any question that medical school is a rich person's game, but not because of debt. I remember seeing an aamc report that said the vast majority of matriculants, I'm going to guess it was around 90%, came from families earning more than 150k a year. In real life, pretty much everyone takes an mcat course costing 2000 dollars, they pursue a lot of extracurriculars that aren't possible if you have to earn money to support yourself, they pay for the application process which can easily cost more than 5000 dollars, etc.

Debt sucks, but it doesn't prevent you from going to medical school, and taking out even 200k when you know you're going to be a physician is not a bad move. On the other hand, not having resources and lots of $$ at your disposal definitely can impede the process. And a lot of medical schools say they want socioeconomic diversity, but let's face it, a lot of people want to be doctors and if schools wanted to prioritize giving spots to lower income people (who may have scored lower on the mcat because they didn't have a prep course, or who don't have great odds of admission because they could only fly to two interviews), they could, but right now, from my admittedly ignorant vantage point, it seems that they don't.

I'm wondering if they are also studies out there about the regions that are ultimately served i.e. urban vs rural vs suburban by physicians from rich/wealthy backgrounds. My understanding is the mission of all U.S. Medical schools are to serve our society by training physicians to provide healthcare services to ALL our communities. This is just an assumption, the study may just reveal that say 10-20% of the citizens in a given region have adequate access to physicians and 80-90% are under-served as result of the lack of diversity in medical schools.

 

[beBrave]

I'm certain they do. What type of assistance are we talking about here? One has to be careful because financial assistance in certain situations may just be a double-edged sword. Let just say a medical school offers a 10% interest a 250k loan to a 21 year. if you do the math on repayment, it's borderline criminal! The school is essentially in business with the Banks with that type of offer right?

I guess the best way for me to put it is yes, Medical schools are geared more towards individuals who have higher incomes and come from stronger socioeconomic backgrounds. I don't think it is something they do deliberately though, it just the case that is present in many situations such as Ivy league schools. No matter how you try to slice the bread, the more sought after the education, the more its going to cost. Don't quote me on this, but I remember during the presidential election Ron Paul mentioned that he was able to pay for med school while working part-time and graduated with little or no debt (I've seen similar comments from older Doctors as well).

Clearly there is some bias and I would be wrong to completely disregard it. Financial assistance may very well be a double edged sword; the thing is sometimes you have to ask yourself what the alternative is. You also have to do your HW along the way; plan ahead; figure out the best repayment options; seek financial counseling. Very often there are steps that can be taken to protect ourselves but we jump in head first (or at-least I am speaking for myself). Your math is correct; a 10% interest rate over 21 years on $250k is rough. Criminal yes; illegal no. We simply have to educate ourselves carefully and also look at the tuition for the schools that we apply to. Just my two cents. I'm not a know it all but seriously trying to be optimistic and look at it from all angles. FYI I have $60k in student loan debt and even now making a decent salary in a highly sought after field like mine is rough. It basically just comes down to how badly do you want it and what is your projected quality of life after you get it. At-least that's my opinion.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I guess I don't understand. Medical schools know nothing of your financial background unless you apply disadvantaged, which is considered a small leg up in the admissions process. Does it favor those from higher socioeconomic backgrounds? Of course, but what doesn't? Which advanced degree or professional career path favors or is easier for poor people to pursue and achieve than rich people? Can't tell if this is meant as some sort of rhetorical question to foment a discussion or if there is real lack of understanding that someone is seeking to fill in. Confused a bit. Yes, every school has many discussions about financial aid and debt. They leave the management of income to residency programs and some (I've heard anecdotally) do give some brief training on financial management. But again, what professional school or advanced degree program does this any better? Is it perfect? Of course not. Is it worse than anything else? I don't think so.

 

[Chuchunezumis]

I guess I don't understand. Medical schools know nothing of your financial background unless you apply disadvantaged, which is considered a small leg up in the admissions process. Does it favor those from higher socioeconomic backgrounds? Of course, but what doesn't? Which advanced degree or professional career path favors or is easier for poor people to pursue and achieve than rich people? Can't tell if this is meant as some sort of rhetorical question to foment a discussion or if there is real lack of understanding that someone is seeking to fill in. Confused a bit. Yes, every school has many discussions about financial aid and debt. They leave the management of income to residency programs and some (I've heard anecdotally) do give some brief training on financial management. But again, what professional school or advanced degree program does this any better? Is it perfect? Of course not. Is it worse than anything else? I don't think so.

This.

 

[JourneyAgent]

I guess I don't understand. Medical schools know nothing of your financial background unless you apply disadvantaged, which is considered a small leg up in the admissions process. Does it favor those from higher socioeconomic backgrounds? Of course, but what doesn't? Which advanced degree or professional career path favors or is easier for poor people to pursue and achieve than rich people? Can't tell if this is meant as some sort of rhetorical question to foment a discussion or if there is real lack of understanding that someone is seeking to fill in. Confused a bit. Yes, every school has many discussions about financial aid and debt. They leave the management of income to residency programs and some (I've heard anecdotally) do give some brief training on financial management. But again, what professional school or advanced degree program does this any better? Is it perfect? Of course not. Is it worse than anything else? I don't think so.

Yep. I had the same confusion. It's no secret to any of us that the deck gets stacked in the favor of who own's the house and who makes the house rules.

School's have missions. Missionaries have schools. Salvations of pilgrims get negotiated. Politicians take the envelope. And sneak protections for multinational corporations into late legislation revisions. Banks make money on federally backed student loans. We pay the taxes on those risks. And the interests to play for the upper middle class game.

We don't have a lot of other options. And when we do make it. Very, very few of us will head directly to the cross to be nailed up tight.

Nobody wants to work in ****ty decrepit, corrupt horrible hospitals that teeter on collapse in service--I use the term loosely--to the poor. And of those that do a small fraction do it for service. More are drunks and burn outs and people who are otherwise not up to snuff.

This is America. So I'm confused as to what the OP is referring to as well. Whether its observational, provocative, ranting, or something else I'm missing?

 

[kimposibl]

OP, let's get technical: all higher education systems favor those of higher socioeconomic backgrounds. It starts with undergrad.

 

[Goro]

Chicken and egg problem here. Who's more likely to go to college, and be a pre-med? Poor kids? or those from well-to-do families?

How many professionals would like their kids to be doctors, and actively encourage that?



I haven't done any research on this. I'm just wondering. So i'm sure every medical school out there promotes diversity in their mission and vision statement...students from various socioeconomic backgrounds. But if you think about about it, If completing medical school is costing more than a quarter million dollars, who is more likely to apply to medical school? The rich and wealthy applicants, right?



Nope, but I see plenty of kids who check off the "economically disadvantaged" box on their application forms. Most of my clinical colleagues sure didn't come from wealthy backgrounds either, either our newest and youngest hires.


It's not like medical schools are offering full ride scholarships for low income and middle income applicants.



This IS a major problem in American Medicine nowadays as it forces too many people into the more lucrative (and competitive) specialties, when what we really need are Primary Care docs. Add to that mix the fact that some areas of the US are really expensive to live in (say, Boston or NYC) and you're going to have areas where young docs won't be able to afford to buy a house, much less start a practice.

I have many close friends and family members who are physicians still paying back that debt and it's a heavy burden. I remember working with a pediatrician, she was so excited because she just signed her last check to pay off her debt. She was about 50 years old. She attend medical school as a traditional student.

Haven't heard of it. Most don't even offer info on how to run a practice either.

Also, have medical schools considered including a personal financial management course as part of the medical school curriculum?

 

[occams_razor]

OP, let's get technical: all higher education systems favor those of higher socioeconomic backgrounds. It starts with undergrad.

yep. also being very in debt for years and years is not exclusive to med students/physicians. I know a lawyer in his 40s who is still paying off his law school loans

 

[slz1900]

I guess I don't understand. Medical schools know nothing of your financial background unless you apply disadvantaged, which is considered a small leg up in the admissions process. Does it favor those from higher socioeconomic backgrounds? Of course, but what doesn't? Which advanced degree or professional career path favors or is easier for poor people to pursue and achieve than rich people? Can't tell if this is meant as some sort of rhetorical question to foment a discussion or if there is real lack of understanding that someone is seeking to fill in. Confused a bit. Yes, every school has many discussions about financial aid and debt. They leave the management of income to residency programs and some (I've heard anecdotally) do give some brief training on financial management. But again, what professional school or advanced degree program does this any better? Is it perfect? Of course not. Is it worse than anything else? I don't think so.

Medical school is unlike other graduate programs because it requires a huge time commitment outside of class, which is difficult for people who need to work; it requires you to apply to many schools and potentially go to and pay for many interviews in order to be competitive (if you're average, which most people are); and just due to the sheer volume of applicants it is less personalized than grad programs, which in the sciences tend to be a lot more holistic and potentially forgiving for a working person. Other paths aren't easier for poor people than rich people, and I don't think anybody would claim that, but medicine is an especially difficult path for a working class person to pursue.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

Medical school is unlike other graduate programs because it requires a huge time commitment outside of class....

I stopped reading right there because your first sentence gave the game away. Go feed that to one of your PhD or post doctoral hombres in the sciences or engineering. Watch the right hand when you do.

 

[slz1900]

I stopped reading right there because your first sentence gave the game away. Go feed that to one of your PhD or post doctoral hombres in the sciences or engineering. Watch the right hand when you do.

You could be a very competitive phd applicant with a couple of years of working in a lab for ten hours a week. No phd program requires volunteering. Virtually no phd program is going to trash your app if you have a 3.3 gpa or an 80th percentile gre. Are you really going to suggest that your average phd applicant has as many extracurricular commitments as an md applicant does? That's the crux of what I was saying.

And just for fun, type in "phd without research" in google and see for yourself that it is not considered a hard requirement, even for science phds. Key word in my post was "required". A fairly uninformed person with a poor gpa could get into a phd program somewhere. Fact is, you have to know the process well and have to have a lot of extracurriculars for medical school, as in, they're required, to get in anywhere.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

You could be a very competitive phd applicant with a couple of years of working in a lab for ten hours a week. No phd program requires volunteering. Virtually no phd program is going to trash your app if you have a 3.3 gpa or an 80th percentile gre. Are you really going to suggest that your average phd applicant has as many extracurricular commitments as an md applicant does? That's the crux of what I was saying.

And just for fun, type in "phd without research" in google and see for yourself that it is not considered a hard requirement, even for science phds. Key word in my post was "required". A fairly uninformed person with a poor gpa could get into a phd program somewhere. Fact is, you have to know the process well and have to have a lot of extracurriculars for medical school, as in, they're required, to get in anywhere.

All those extracurricular are optional. Those are things premeds have done to themselves, and other professional programs have fallen to the same arms race of applicant silliness. Good PhD programs require the same kind of time and dedication both to get in and to finish. I could have gotten into 60% of the MD or DO programs on stats alone, just like that 10 hour per week researcher if he's got the right GRE subset scores.

 

[slz1900]

All those extracurricular are optional. Those are things premeds have done to themselves, and other professional programs have fallen to the same arms race of applicant silliness. Good PhD programs require the same kind of time and dedication both to get in and to finish. I could have gotten into 60% of the MD or DO programs on stats alone, just like that 10 hour per week researcher if he's got the right GRE subset scores.

You need to compare averages. Yes, someone with a 4.0 and 40 could get into an md program without anything extracurricular, but a 3.6, 30 applicant couldn't. You could however get into an average phd or law program somewhere after deciding to take your lsat or gre senior year without doing much else. Your average medical school applicant has to be much better informed and prepared than your average phd or law applicant, and generally better informed corresponds to better off, especially for 18 year olds entering college.

phd programs, even top ones, are also more forgiving for gpa or gre if you have something else to offer (good luck getting Harvard to overlook a 3.3 even if you have amazing research experience), the interviews are often paid for, applicants don't usually apply to 25 schools, etc. It is not as heavily skewed towards better off applicants as medical school admissions.

 

[MsFutureDr]

I guess I don't understand. Medical schools know nothing of your financial background unless you apply disadvantaged, which is considered a small leg up in the admissions process. Does it favor those from higher socioeconomic backgrounds? Of course, but what doesn't? Which advanced degree or professional career path favors or is easier for poor people to pursue and achieve than rich people? Can't tell if this is meant as some sort of rhetorical question to foment a discussion or if there is real lack of understanding that someone is seeking to fill in. Confused a bit. Yes, every school has many discussions about financial aid and debt. They leave the management of income to residency programs and some (I've heard anecdotally) do give some brief training on financial management. But again, what professional school or advanced degree program does this any better? Is it perfect? Of course not. Is it worse than anything else? I don't think so.

Oh it just question based on my experiences. Nothing serious. I was curious if others felt the same. I expected 4 types of response from my post,.those who are agreed, disagreed, with me or those who are in the middle and the occasional responses that have nothing to with my post. I enjoy reading the feedback from members.
It would be interesting to complete a survey based on those who responded so far about their socioeconomic background. The findings will reveal so much about these responses.

My question was do medical schools INDIRECTLY attract wealthy/rich applicants based on the application process. So whether or not medical schools are aware of the financial status of applicants is not the issue, it's whether the system is not supportive to those highly intelligent students from low income or middle class background who are more likely to service the regions with limited access to healthcare services.

I appreciate the feedback from everyone. I do have to say this and some may disagree with me but If you were never raised in a low income environment, you may find it difficult to truly understand the financial barriers those applicants have to overcome to get into medical school.

 

[Chuchunezumis]

Intelligence and wealth are also pretty strongly correlated. The same way I would expect a professional athlete's son to more likely become a professional athlete (he'll have a bunch of advantages and more likely have the genes for it) it's reasonable to expect a doctor's son to more likely become a doctor.

I really don't think there's any foul play here.

 

[CastleG8]

Intelligence and wealth are also pretty strongly correlated. The same way I would expect a professional athlete's son to more likely become a professional athlete (he'll have a bunch of advantages and more likely have the genes for it) it's reasonable to expect a doctor's son to more likely become a doctor.

I really don't think there's any foul play here.

That's pretty controversial. A correlation might be explained best by the encouragement and financial support that people who have "been there and done that" can provide to their children. I don't see intelligence playing a significant role in this.

 

[AFLATPEG]

it depends on the admissions committee. but I HEARD, yes they do like "rich kids" and that it's all politics. (so wrong on so many levels)

 

[JourneyAgent]

It's not a matter of what adcomms like. Who doesn't like an underdog? For poor kids that make it that far they might get an extra push in terms of scholarships or looser interpretations of the meaning of their grades.

The separation of the classes occurs way before that. I'm working with the extreme urban poor on our wards. What I've seen in OB and peds and learned from my teachers and lecturers is this: a stressed out mother with catacholamines on blast, with poorer nutrition, and uncontrolled diabetes, and horrible access to healthcare and prenatal follow up, with higher rates of drug abuse, much higher rates of vertical transmission of HIV and other infections, depression and anxiety from violent, chaotic environs, and highly disproportionate rates of premature delivery....will, give many new borns from these backgrounds a massive set back fom go.

And then the setbacks just keep crushing the baby. The whole weight of American inequity to deal with. And with the over-reliance on stressed single mothers to overcome it.

Women from these backgrounds are much less likely to breast feed. (Some research indicating a drop of 10 to 15 points or more of lifetime IQ occurs right there). Brain development is very sensitive to the safety and security in the environment. If guns are ringing out in the neighborhood and mother is dealing with a survival mind state. Maximizing child development is not a priority. If she works, she works long and hard for crap wages. And can afford the type of day care that is subpar. The sort that is not stimulating to brain development at the age where it is permanent.

And then the school systems.... Some of the ones around here seem like no more than holding pens for the future of the criminal justice system. Graduating kids that are no where close to their grade level in performance. Totally unequipped for the modern economy.

Repeat cycle.

The number of kids who escape poverty and attain the level of academic preparedness for medical school is infinitesimally small. And so on by degree up the SES ladder.

This is a sort of social/biological evolution. Look at the differences in height and weight between the South Koreans and their northern brothers who share the same basic genetics. We are engineering the social structures that divide the social classes. And they are engineering us.

I would speculate that there is an imperceptible speciation taking place in the human family.

 

[Wanderlove]

That's pretty controversial. A correlation might be explained best by the encouragement and financial support that people who have "been there and done that" can provide to their children. I don't see intelligence playing a significant role in this.

Access to education is important too. Students in poor communities often have schools with less resources to provide quality education. There has been controversy concerning some standardized tests being culturally unfair. That is, the tests ask some questions that people growing up in poor communities would not understand based on what they've been exposed to in their own cultures. Then the test scores reveal that the students are less intelligent when that is not necessarily the case. Another aspect is individual differences. Some students who grow up disadvantaged are resilient and internally motivated to succeed academically. There are just so many factors that can influence whether someone displays intelligence or not.

 

[thefritz]

It's a lot easier to have a flawless record when your family makes it possible for you to concentrate on school with 100% of your time and makes it financially possible to attend more prestigious colleges.

 

[Tommyguns89]

Of course! But its only a symptom of the broader trend.

Edit: wrong article lol

 

[beBrave]

It's a lot easier to have a flawless record when your family makes it possible for you to concentrate on school with 100% of your time and makes it financially possible to attend more prestigious colleges.

That's true but I believe it can also work against you. A lot of these kids have flawless records; in other words; excellent grades; Decent MCAT's and then don't get accepted. An Admission's Director that I spoke with made a point of this recently that in his decades in admissions, only a handful ( I think he said two students) were ever admitted without having extracurricular that show that you are well rounded (they had 40's on the MCAT and excellent GPA's). In others words many of these kids; sale through school; but they don't gain any valuable life experience; they don't shadow; they don't volunteer; then don't go actively go seeking work in the Medical field; they see becoming a Doc as a job and not a life long commitment. They play video games; don't really take life all that serious ( the admissions Director actually referenced video games) and then they don't get admitted.

I think having to struggle; having to work harder for it gives many of us an edge. We will do the things needed to become a Doc. Wealthy kids have the advantage being able to pay for med school but I don't agree that they have the advantage when it comes to getting into med school.

Check out this article.

Why Failing Med Students Don’t Get Failing Grades:

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/28/why-failing-med-students-dont-get-failing-grades/

 

[JourneyAgent]

That's true but I believe it can also work against you. A lot of these kids have flawless records; in other words; excellent grades; Decent MCAT's and then don't get accepted. An Admission's Director that I spoke with made a point of this recently that in his decades in admissions, only a handful ( I think he said two students) were ever admitted without having extracurricular that show that you are well rounded (they had 40's on the MCAT and excellent GPA's). In others words many of these kids; sale through school; but they don't gain any valuable life experience; they don't shadow; they don't volunteer; then don't go actively go seeking work in the Medical field; they see becoming a Doc as a job and not a life long commitment. They play video games; don't really take life all that serious ( the admissions Director actually referenced video games) and then they don't get admitted.

I think having to struggle; having to work harder for it gives many of us an edge. We will do the things needed to become a Doc. Wealthy kids have the advantage being able to pay for med school but I don't agree that they have the advantage when it comes to getting into med school.

Check out this article.

Why Failing Med Students Don't Get Failing Grades:

http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2013/02/28/why-failing-med-students-dont-get-failing-grades/

That article does not serve the point you think it does in my opinion. But it was interesting, so thanks. It's an article about grade inflation and the natural absurdities of external criteria in evaluating the intimate nature of a patient encounter--as one of the pediatrician commenters pointed out.

After acknowledging the problems with screening out poorly functioning personalities, the author gets excited about a national push to standardize and make systematic the subjective evaluation of medical student clerks.

That's the height of absurdity.

The problem resembles, in structural similarity, the same way the OP, frames her question. It is, essentially, a framing problem. The problem with medical cultures inability to censure pricks and remold more agreeable, positively interacting docs is that it's cultivation process does the opposite.

There's no incentive for a working doc in an academic setting to take the enormous amount of time it would require to accurately obtain enough information on all the interactions their medical student partake in to asses professionalism and ability to play well in team situations. That would be a rigorous full time job.

Giving them some standardized forms to fill our in order to legitimize subjective assessments
and actually thinking that's some swell f'n work is....well...it just means whoever wrote that doesn't know their @ss from a hole in the ground.

 

[Esquire]

Resources help. 20% of med students graduate debt-free. Even among med schools, there's a difference between the pedigrees and backgrounds of those from private vs. state schools. It also takes money to pursue competitive specialties: numerous away rotations, more applications and interviews, taking a year off for research.

Still, I sense you are rationalizing being "disadvantaged". (What exactly is "financially disadvantaged"? Every 12 year old ghetto kid rocks a new pair of Nikes. Back in my day, the only kid I knew who could afford Nikes sold drugs.)

Being poor is not an excuse. It takes more work but you can do it if you have the capacity and drive. Loans, military, etc. can get you the money you need. Even if you don't make it to med school, a premed degree is a good investment that provides an entryway to RN, PA, PT careers.

Having been around both poor people and rich working people, I can say most poor people are of below average intelligence. There are 250 people at my law firm that each make $2-3 million. I'd say 60-75% come from privileged backgrounds, 10% are from humble backgrounds and the rest are solidly middle class. What they all have in common is they are the smartest and the hardest working people I have ever met.

The biggest resource of all is genetics. The separation of haves and havenots begins with innate ability. Darwin would agree that the chimps with an inborn predisposition to: cooperate, invest in their young (as opposed to pump and dump), solve problems, organize, plan, and amass resources will eventually push out the monkey that can't.

Look at Jews (who have well-documented, above average IQs) who have been subject to persecution for centuries. Jews were excluded from law and medicine for a long time, but dominate those professions after only a short time of being accepted. Or blacks who were excluded from basketball, but are now dominating after a short time. The people on this earth aren't much different from bacteria in petri dish. Introduce a few bacteria will a few favorable mutations and they will outcompete and dominate the other bacteria in that petri dish.

Thought experiment: If North Koreans were suddenly freed from dictatorial oppression, what would their society look like within 15 years? Would their society resemble Somalia? A post-Balkans society? An Afghan warlord society? A typical big American city like Washington D.C., rife with rampant drug use, single motherhood, and crime? Would they lead the world in rape like South Africa? Or would they be indistinguishable from South Korean society, complete with electronic toilets, iPhone crushing Samsungs, and Gangnam style rappers?

 

[Esquire]

I think having to struggle; having to work harder for it gives many of us an edge. We will do the things needed to become a Doc. Wealthy kids have the advantage being able to pay for med school but I don't agree that they have the advantage when it comes to getting into med school.

Keep in mind that many of the wealthy kids that make it to med school are extremely motivated, highly driven, and highly self-selected.

They could've just partied and coasted on their parents like all the other wealthy kids.

 

[radnguyen]

It's a lot easier to have a flawless record when your family makes it possible for you to concentrate on school with 100% of your time and makes it financially possible to attend more prestigious colleges.

100% agree ! I am an Asian. I came to this country when I was in 20s and worked 2 jobs to pay my dues for education. Yes, my grade is suffered a lot. There are some other Asian kids who are born in US. Their parents want their kids to become doctors so bad that they volunteer everything ( cooking, cleaning, washing clothes ) so that their kids can study and volunteer for other people. They even hire private teachers and counselor to help their kids through MCAT and applications. Most of the rich Asian kids study in private religious schools where everyone can make As. And of course all tuition are paid by their parents. You play the game of gpa and mcat, and you get in the med school.

 

[JourneyAgent]

100% agree ! I am an Asian. I came to this country when I was in 20s and worked 2 jobs to pay my dues for education. Yes, my grade is suffered a lot. There are some other Asian kids who are born in US. Their parents want their kids to become doctors so bad that they volunteer everything ( cooking, cleaning, washing clothes ) so that their kids can study and volunteer for other people. They even hire private teachers and counselor to help their kids through MCAT and applications. Most of the rich Asian kids study in private religious schools where everyone can make As. And of course all tuition are paid by their parents. You play the game of gpa and mcat, and you get in the med school.

Ok. So you've had to work harder. And it's not a level playing field. Such that many in your shoes or in mine at your stage would do what's more sensible and go into nursing or some other trade.

But you can make it. And there is some dependable common sense among all of us including those who will decide your fate that it is worthwhile to gather up a this and that for each class.

The more interesting question to me, and for which esquire has provocated rather boldly, is that if the inequity is becoming biological and cultural such that going forward it will be the rare exceptional person from a lower SES origin who will pentrate the profession.

 

[JourneyAgent]

In other words Mr. Nguyen and the rest of you.

Let me play satan's advocate and ask it this way:

Would it not be harder for an applicant from a very poor background to overcome the entire force of his upbringing, culturally and biologically, to be successful in medicine, than a nice extremely well heeled and very well cared for applicant to learn enough passable humility not to be impassably awkward as a new clerk serving the poor?

Isn't that kind of what we have now demographically?

 

[beBrave]

In other words Mr. Nguyen and the rest of you.

Let me play satan's advocate and ask it this way:

Would it not be harder for an applicant from a very poor background to overcome the entire force of his upbringing, culturally and biologically, to be successful in medicine, than a nice extremely well heeled and very well cared for applicant to learn enough passable humility not to be impassably awkward as a new clerk serving the poor?

Isn't that kind of what we have now demographically?

I think the best answer is yes it would be more difficult for the applicant from a poor background to overcome everything compared to a person from a more stable socioeconomic background however it is not impossible and furthermore the ones who succeed may eventually produce offspring who they give the very best to so that they can succeed and the pattern will continue as culture and genes are altered so in the end while every genetic line may originate from a group with little, those at the beginning of those lines that strive to be better and do better will eventually produce a genetic and even potentially cultural line of individuals who have a predisposition for success thanks to both nature and nurture (genetics and environment).

Note: My gosh you guys are intelligent.

 

[Pons Asinorum]

I think the best answer is yes it would be more difficult for the applicant from a poor background to overcome everything compared to a person from a more stable socioeconomic background however it is not impossible and furthermore the ones who succeed may eventually produce offspring who they give the very best to so that they can succeed and the pattern will continue as culture and genes are altered so in the end while every genetic line may originate from a group with little, those at the beginning of those lines that strive to be better and do better will eventually produce a genetic and even potentially cultural line of individuals who have a predisposition for success thanks to both nature and nurture (genetics and environment).

I just wanted to point out that all those words are in one sentence.

 

[JourneyAgent]

I think the best answer is yes it would be more difficult for the applicant from a poor background to overcome everything compared to a person from a more stable socioeconomic background however it is not impossible and furthermore the ones who succeed may eventually produce offspring who they give the very best to so that they can succeed and the pattern will continue as culture and genes are altered so in the end while every genetic line may originate from a group with little, those at the beginning of those lines that strive to be better and do better will eventually produce a genetic and even potentially cultural line of individuals who have a predisposition for success thanks to both nature and nurture (genetics and environment).

Note: My gosh you guys are intelligent.

Yes I agree. It strengthens my backbone when I see those who have overcome more than me make the transition to being doctors. I love being around them.

I suppose, I'm just pointing out what in the game makes it an upper middle class affair. It's rules are set up to select for these outcomes. Kind of like golf, tennis, lacrosse, and polo are just for a certain set. Medicine is that way. You have breakthrough individuals. But there's usually something exceptional about them or their parents or both.

I guess it also depends what you mean by poor.

My attending, a classmate of mine, and I just admitted a baby of a drug addicted mother who was malnourished, at least 6 months behind his age in developmental milestones and was so anaclitcally depressed he barely moved or interacted with people. He's being worked up for vertical transmission of the worst sorts.

Ok so that kid is F'd. No comin back from F'd. So if you got brains and determination even if you had to put yourself through school working multiple jobs like I did and many of you did to get your shot. The just realize we have enough status to jump up from. But keep in mind all the people below us.

I don't think many of them if at all even have the notion to hope they could be a doctor.

Right...so...?

 

[beBrave]

I just wanted to point out that all those words are in one sentence.

Nice observation. Typed on my phone after a 3 mile run. I was focusing more on spelling (and breathing).

Yes I agree. It strengthens my backbone when I see those who have overcome more than me make the transition to being doctors. I love being around them.

I suppose, I'm just pointing out what in the game makes it an upper middle class affair. It's rules are set up to select for these outcomes. Kind of like golf, tennis, lacrosse, and polo are just for a certain set. Medicine is that way. You have breakthrough individuals. But there's usually something exceptional about them or their parents or both.

I guess it also depends what you mean by poor.

My attending, a classmate of mine, and I just admitted a baby of a drug addicted mother who was malnourished, at least 6 months behind his age in developmental milestones and was so anaclitcally depressed he barely moved or interacted with people. He's being worked up for vertical transmission of the worst sorts.

Ok so that kid is F'd. No comin back from F'd. So if you got brains and determination even if you had to put yourself through school working multiple jobs like I did and many of you did to get your shot. The just realize we have enough status to jump up from. But keep in mind all the people below us.

I don't think many of them if at all even have the notion to hope they could be a doctor.

Right...so...?

Here's the interesting thing. In HS with the exception of my final year, my grades were terrible. Ironically I was always acknowledged by my peers for my intelligence as I would fail exams and get reprimanded by teachers and so forth (but then again I would do groovy things like build solar powered devices from spare parts).

College was the same. Up's and downs ( I only did well in the classes that interested me; usually the most difficult ones that actually gave me a challenge). People on my mothers side have a genetic predisposition for higher intelligence. All of my siblings are ridiculously intelligent. Regardless, many have wasted their talents. I did not finally make the decision to become a Doctor until my therapist began breaking the hold between me and my mother (yes and I'm almost 30). Genes are funny because you can be genetically predisposition-ed from an intellectual standpoint but still fail if you come from a bad environment and remain constantly linked to that environment. Even my mother who people nickname the Doctor; has failed to excel despite her advanced intellect. All because of environment.

My notion of becoming a Physician has always been simply knowing I could (at the age of 5 I knew that it was what I wanted). The only thing that has ever held me back was my environment. I'm also made up of at-least 5 different races and at-least a dozen nationalities. I think playing the Gene game is dangerous because while Genes clearly play a role in intellect and development, environment ultimately plays a greater role because at some point, my ancestor, your ancestor, all of our ancestors were at the bottom of the gene pool but someone decided to change their life by changing there environment which ultimately led to changes in their genes.

That kid you mention who is in pretty bad shape could make an amazing comeback. I have no idea how people react when they have missed developmental cycles as a result of malnutrition; however in many cultures developmental cycles are very different especially for things like walking where in Jamaica children are more likely to walk faster than American children due to cultural differences in the way mothers teach and encourage their children to walk versus an Iranian orphanage where the children are seldom held and there are usually no items in their environment to encourage them to explore their environments which results in severe delayed motor functional development; this makes it common for something like three out of every five children from this background to not walk until they are like 3 (and yes this was taken from an empirical study). In the end it all comes down to the individual. Genes and environment; two wonderful variables that have such a massive impact on our lives.

FYI: I don't feel like I have had anymore or less advantages that anyone else because it is impossible to quantify something like this when situations (variables) differ from person to person.

Now my brains tired. Time to go watch more Doctor Who.

Spoiler

Gosh I miss David Tennant.

 

[rain4venus]

I stopped reading right there because your first sentence gave the game away. Go feed that to one of your PhD or post doctoral hombres in the sciences or engineering. Watch the right hand when you do.

That's hugely different those because science/engineering PhD programs (almost?) always not only pay for your school, but also pay a monthly stipend. It's not a lot of money, but you can still easily make it out of grad school without incurring any extra debt, which is damn near impossible with med school if you don't already have a ton of cash saved up when you start.

You definitely can't have another job while you're in a science PhD program, but you also don't need it.

ETA: upon re-reading I realize y'all were talking about time commitment in undergrad, but my point still stands as far as this thread anyway. If you are afraid of taking on all that debt, a science PhD looks a lot nicer than med school.

As to the OP, I definitely think med school admissions favor the well-off, as many others have said, primarily just because of the way our society works. Sure, given two otherwise equal applicants, the disadvantaged one will be more likely to gain an acceptance in the name of diversity, same way as if the applicants differed only in ethnicity. Schools think that the more diverse student (whether economically or ethnically diverse) probably worked harder to become the other's equal, and they reward that. But there are still not many med students our there coming from near-poverty, precisely because it does require a lot more work, and in many cases a lot more self-motivation.

 

[rain4venus]

Now my brains tired. Time to go watch more Doctor Who.

Spoiler

Gosh I miss David Tennant.

Spoiler

Blasphemy!

 

[Pons Asinorum]

That's hugely different those because science/engineering PhD programs (almost?) always not only pay for your school, but also pay a monthly stipend. It's not a lot of money, but you can still easily make it out of grad school without incurring any extra debt, which is damn near impossible with med school if you don't already have a ton of cash saved up when you start.

You definitely can't have another job while you're in a science PhD program, but you also don't need it.

ETA: upon re-reading I realize y'all were talking about time commitment in undergrad, but my point still stands as far as this thread anyway. If you are afraid of taking on all that debt, a science PhD looks a lot nicer than med school.

Two words: lifetime earnings. But sure, the PhD student has a pittance to spend every month that isn't funded by their future earnings. My point is that we shouldn't be crying too hard for MD wannabes in terms of financial matters. We will all do alright. And you know what? We'll spend that money giving our children every advantage we can and the cycle churns onward.

 

[rain4venus]

Two words: lifetime earnings. But sure, the PhD student has a pittance to spend every month that isn't funded by their future earnings. My point is that we shouldn't be crying too hard for MD wannabes in terms of financial matters. We will all do alright. And you know what? We'll spend that money giving our children every advantage we can and the cycle churns onward.

Well, a PhD engineer can easily make as much (or almost) as a PCP, and without hundreds of thousands of dollars of debt. But I agree with you - on average a physician will make a lot more over time than a physicist.

But really the point is that it's not such a risk. If you drop out of a PhD program after two years, the only real downside is that you have to find a new job. If you drop out of med school after two years, you'll have $100k in debt and no degree to pay it back. That's probably a risk that scares off many people from low to middle class backgrounds.

 

[mshahnoora]

My father's a PhD Engineer. My mother's an MD.

My father worked for 15+ years as an employee with rising salaries (as he moved to senior positions), while my mother's salary has remained quite the same (if not reduced). Initially, my mother did make more money, but that wasn't the case 10-15 years down the road (he was, and still is, a very hard worker). By the way, my mother's a really amazing woman: she financially and emotionally supported the family as much as possible during his MS/PhD.

My father (quite an ambitious person) decided to start his own engineering-focused company from our basement after gaining significant experience, and although it was challenging for the first 2-3 years, it's doing very well now, and hiring quite a bit of people; bought a nice office last year, and has very reputable clients/projects now; almost hard to keep up. So my mother recently retired early from medicine, though she still volunteers at a free clinic.

I realize this may not be the case with a significant majority of people, but that's how my family ended up. The point they made to me was: do what I am intellectually interested in, and don't worry too much about money. What is well-compensated today, may not be so in 10+ years. And vice versa.

One thing that seemed was, just from my family's personal experience:

Medicine was more of a relatively stable, moderately-compensated field, but there's a virtual glass ceiling of how much you can make. I mean, you don't hear of IPOs and acquisitions tremendously in the medical field (maybe biotech/pharma). My mom did have her own clinic, but never could reach the earning potential of my father's company.

Engineering, though may have lower starting salaries, provides financial benefits to those who take risks via entrepreneurship or other means. Granted, the chances of failure are possibly higher, but so are the potential rewards. Especially through acquisitions if it's a really attractive product/company.

Hope this provides some perspective. I was tremendously fortunate to have both perspectives, and they both inspired me to pursue both fields.

 

[Temperature101]

The average household income in the US is around 50k/year and I remember seeing somewhere in SDN that the average household or family income of kids in med school is 110k+/year. These stats alone tell you the socioeconomic make up of med school students.

 

[radnguyen]

I guess it also depends what you mean by poor.

To be honest being a doctor is a dream that mostly applies for wealthy kids. Look at the family background of young medical students around you and draw a decision yourself.

 

[Goro]

OP, to follow up on your question, a quick glance through MSAR reveals that >95% of medical students are on some type of financial aid, so I think the answer to your question is no.

I haven't done any research on this. I'm just wondering. So i'm sure every medical school out there promotes diversity in their mission and vision statement...students from various socioeconomic backgrounds. But if you think about about it, If completing medical school is costing more than a quarter million dollars, who is more likely to apply to medical school? The rich and wealthy applicants, right? It's not like medical schools are offering full ride scholarships for low income and middle income applicants. I'm sure medical schools will sell "you'll make that money someday and pay it back"...but a debt is never a good thing...if you can avoid it all together avoid it. With the current Federal law you cannot file bankruptcy on students loans. If you a highly competitive applicant from a disadvantaged background, more than likely you are facing numerous challenges as it is at home. The added stress of a huge debt accumulation makes it tough to pursue your dream. There are other costs associated in the pre-med process with no guarantee you will make it. It's an expensive risk for some. That's a heavy burden for a 21 year old. If you are a rich or a wealthy applicant, you can afford to take the risk regardless of the outcome.

Also, I wonder if there are any stats out there on how diverse medical schools really are based on income. I wonder if medical schools reveal this information? I have a friend who is a physician from a very disadvantaged background. She was offered loans with high interest by the medical school as part of their diversity loan program. She didn't know at 21 years old that was not a good offer. It's too late now.

I have many close friends and family members who are physicians still paying back that debt and it's a heavy burden. I remember working with a pediatrician, she was so excited because she just signed her last check to pay off her debt. She was about 50 years old. She attend medical school as a traditional student.

Also, have medical schools considered including a personal financial management course as part of the medical school curriculum?

Don't get me wrong, if you know in your heart you want to be a physician, I say go for it. That high debt should not prevent you from pursuing your goal regardless of your background. But it just seems to me the whole system is designed to attract the rich and wealthy applicants.

excuse my typos

 

[rain4venus]

OP, to follow up on your question, a quick glance through MSAR reveals that >95% of medical students are on some type of financial aid, so I think the answer to your question is no.

Doesn't that include loans though? I don't think that not having a few hundred thousand in savings is sufficient to declare someone as being not wealthy.