"Do not go into medicine"

[csx]

All of the doctors I have shadowed and doctors I have spoken to privately (+8) have all warned me not to go into medicine. Every single one said even with Obamacare aside, if they could do it all over again, they would not have gone into medicine.

Having spoken to all of these physicians all with the same opinions, I'm starting to second guess going into medicine, I feel it'd be very stubborn of me to simply cast all of these physicians opinions aside. I remember the last time I did such a thing it was when I ignored all of the bad reviews about my undergrad thinking it couldn't be that bad...and it was lol.

And to quote someone who posted in some other thread because it has some relevance:
"Pre-meds are so enthusiastic and excited. They think medical school will be super fun and interesting. But once reality sets in, well, I'm sure perspectives will change. It's crazy when you see these idealistic people enter medical school, and then watch them quickly die on the inside, and leave as a different person than they once were."

What are your thoughts on this? Even though I (everyone actually) likes to think they want it more than the next person over, in reality the doctors who came before us were just like us at one time and they wanted to go to medschool as much as you/I.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[IL Pre Med]

I think you're doing something wrong, every physician I've spoken with loves their job. Then again I don't talk to primary care guys, all the guys I'm in contact with are in anesthesia and surgery (some of the more lucrative specialties) so that may have something to do with it.

 

[csx]

I think you're doing something wrong, every physician I've spoken with loves their job. Then again I don't talk to primary care guys, all the guys I'm in contact with are in anesthesia and surgery (some of the more lucrative specialties) so that may have something to do with it.

I've seen a wide variety of doc's Ortho surgeons, Gen Surgeons, OMM (DO), PCP, Ophthal, endo, probs some im forgetting.

 

[prdv]

I actually had a different experience. All the CA physicians I encountered always ask me, "are you SURE?" However, most of the primary care physicians I work with who are active in the community say they love what they do more so than surgeons/anesthesiologists I have talked to. I've worked with younger surgeons/surgical fellows who say over and over they would never do medicine again, and I shouldn't do medicine. I don't even have to ask them about their opinions... they just dive right into it when they hear that I want to go into medicine. Kinda alarming.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

All of the doctors I have shadowed and doctors I have spoken to privately (+8) have all warned me not to go into medicine. Every single one said even with Obamacare aside, if they could do it all over again, they would not have gone into medicine.

Does SDN count as "private" communication for your count? In that case, I'd go with 8 our of 9 since I am grateful for having gone to medical school and have never warned anyone, including my own family members, not to go into it.

 

[anbuitachi]

You can Google for more info but the satisfaction rate is low. This doesn't mean you aren't going to find happy doctors. One article I read stated majority of doctors do not recommend family members to go into it. The thing is more older docs are going to be happier because they are already established and may have lived thru the golden age of medicine. Younger docs are not and when you graduate it will be even worse. Salary keeps tanking vs inflation and respect keeps going down.

I was actually just talking to a senior resident today. He went to med school 7 yrs ago. Now the tuition at his med school almost doubled per year. Its ridiculous.

Bottom line is only do it if you know you love it. You think you'll look forward to going to work every morning even if its 12+ hr shifts everyday. Otherwise seriously consider other options.

 

[radkat101]

I think this varies a lot by specialty, and region as well. Here in Texas, tuition is cheap, pay is good, and we have one of the best legal environments to practice in. I've never had a doc tell me not to go into medicine.

 

[csx]

Also, a path also warned me against med. Most of them talked about their loss of youth, the difficult journey getting to where they are today, missing out on things in college (ie: sacrificing a lot of their social life), having to take a hard(er) major, massive debt leaving college and medschool, long work weeks in residency/fellowship, being away from loved ones (and in one case losing their father while in school; that was time they could've spent with their dad instead had they not gone into medicine), long work hours, it being such a high risk occupation, the depression/anxiety, a few mentioned feeling lonely because they could only attract gold diggers (lol), watching their friends enjoy their 20's doing fun stuff/starting families while they're hitting the books, etc.

@oldbearprofessor : there are obviously going to be exceptions everywhere.

EDIT:
All the physicians I asked I asked in person. By in "private" I meant I asked them off to the side, not in front of colleagues/patients etc.

 

[hoihaie]

did they say why?

 

[theseeker4]

All of the doctors I have shadowed and doctors I have spoken to privately (+8) have all warned me not to go into medicine. Every single one said even with Obamacare aside, if they could do it all over again, they would not have gone into medicine.

Having spoken to all of these physicians all with the same opinions, I'm starting to second guess going into medicine, I feel it'd be very stubborn of me to simply cast all of these physicians opinions aside. I remember the last time I did such a thing it was when I ignored all of the bad reviews about my undergrad thinking it couldn't be that bad...and it was lol.

And to quote someone who posted in some other thread because it has some relevance:
"Pre-meds are so enthusiastic and excited. They think medical school will be super fun and interesting. But once reality sets in, well, I'm sure perspectives will change. It's crazy when you see these idealistic people enter medical school, and then watch them quickly die on the inside, and leave as a different person than they once were."

What are your thoughts on this? Even though I (everyone actually) likes to think they want it more than the next person over, in reality the doctors who came before us were just like us at one time and they wanted to go to medschool as much as you/I.

I think it depends a lot on why you want to be a doctor. If you are totally idealistic, and believe you will have meaningful interactions with every patient, each of which will value your input, do their best to follow your advice, respect your education and knowledge, and be grateful for your help, you will likely resent going into medicine.

The grass is always greener on the other side. If all of those things you mention makes you not want to pursue medicine, then you probably shouldn't. If you believe you will have the kind of impact on patients that I describe above, more often than just occasionally, you should probably pursue something other than medicine. You won't fine ANY profession ANYWHERE without a good number of people who regret pursuing it.

Listen to what everyone says, and you will be able to make an informed opinion. If you forge ahead, ignoring what people say are the downsides, you will likely resent following this path. If you take everything people say into consideration, and after weighing your options and your priorities, you still are willing to make the sacrifices to become a doctor, you will less likely regret your choice.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I love how Texas is used as a positive example in so many threads. California state schools are ridiculously competitive, but Texas looks out for its residents. Private med schools have stratospheric tuition, but Baylor is dirt cheap in comparison, has an awesome curriculum, and one of the highest step 1 averages. The largest medical center in the world is in Texas. If you want those A- grades to look like A's, apply to Texas schools. Physicians are treated better in Texas, etc...

 

[Mad Jack]

All depends on what you want out of life. There's so many worse fates out there, I hardly think being a physician is all that terrible. But definitely do something else if you can see yourself being happy doing anything else. Doctoring is first and foremost a job, and an extremely taxing one at that.

 

[csx]

I think many of you posting (the premeds) are making the mistake that I mentioned in my initial post in thinking you are different from other serious premeds and the doctors who came before you (at least the ones I have spoken to)...

I'm finding it very peculiar that all the physicians Ive talked to said they were once like me and it was a huge mistake.

 

[gyngyn]

Everybody I know loves their work (including me!).

 

[Aerus]

I think you're doing something wrong, every physician I've spoken with loves their job. Then again I don't talk to primary care guys, all the guys I'm in contact with are in anesthesia and surgery (some of the more lucrative specialties) so that may have something to do with it.

I've had the exact opposite experience. All the positive "medicine is absolutely fantastic" were all primary care docs. All the surgeons I talked to ranged from "meh do it only if you're really passionate about it" to "NO RUN FOR THE HILLS AND NEVER LOOK BACK."



Sent from The World Tree using SDN Mobile

 

[jagster92]

I started in pharmacy and will also be attending med school, and I can add that it's the same story with both professions. You see people who are thrilled about their chosen field and love their jobs, and you see people in the completely opposite end of the spectrum. Even for myself, I wouldn't recommend pharmacy or med school to the majority of beginning college students. You need to have long-term perseverance, be willing to undergo quite a bit of self-sacrifice, and on top of that you of course need the prerequisite intelligence required to get you through school and the standardized tests/boards along the way. Bottom line: don't let other's opinions deter you. If you see yourself as a doctor in the future, and you've got the brains/dedication/people skills/etc. to get you there, then do it.

 

[Shinobiz11]

You can't live life based on other people's opinions/projections. You have to take a look at the field yourself and really think about if you want to commit the next 7+ years of your life to education/training. Will you ever be 100% sure you made the right decision? Maybe not until 10 years from now. But, I can bet for every doctor who wouldn't do it again, there is one who would. Everyone has a different personality, some are cut out for the rigors and reward of medicine and others are not. I've spoken with physicians on both sides and in my analysis, I feel there is more benefit for MYSELF, if I go to medical school.

 

[TheStudyOfLife]

Why do you care if other physicians hate their job? You know what being a physician entails.. You have shadowed plenty I presume. If helping individuals return to better health is your goal in life and you could see yourself doing it for a career then that's all you need to know. The financial aspect of it should be negligible and so should obamacare.

Reconsider medicine.

 

[csx]

Why do you care if other physicians hate their job? You know what being a physician entails.. You have shadowed plenty I presume. If helping individuals return to better health is your goal in life and you could see yourself doing it for a career then that's all you need to know. The financial aspect of it should be negligible and so should obamacare.

Reconsider medicine.

I'm positive most serious premeds all feel this way/did this, including the physicians who now regret it.

 

[cs24]

All of the doctors I have shadowed and doctors I have spoken to privately (+8) have all warned me not to go into medicine.

Having spoken to all of these physicians all with the same opinions, I'm starting to second guess going into medicine, I feel it'd be very stubborn of me to simply cast all of these physicians opinions aside.

Well there are what, about 20 doctors in America nowadays, so you can't help but have a really representative sample there.

Snark aside, just like in any profession, some people will hate it, some will love it, and some will be in between. You've just talked to people in the first category. The most important thing is that you try to get as much information as you can about what a career as a physician will be like, and decide if YOU would be happy doing that for your career.

 

[ridethecliche]

So? Don't do it.

We're not making you.

 

[Funke]

The attendings I've shadowed all love their jobs and recommend medicine. The residents... they weren't full of sunshine.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

Why do you care if other physicians hate their job? You know what being a physician entails.. You have shadowed plenty I presume. If helping individuals return to better health is your goal in life and you could see yourself doing it for a career then that's all you need to know. The financial aspect of it should be negligible and so should obamacare.

Reconsider medicine.

TBF, shadowing really only scratches the surface of what being a physician entails.

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

It's not that uncommon for physicians to like their jobs but still not recommend medicine. It's more complicated than just saying "I love it. You will too." or "I hate it. Run for the hills."

 

[darklabel]

Anecdotal, but I've heard differing opinions. The best one I have heard is when when one physician I shadowed said medicine sucks and to avoid it at all costs, but is always smug about how his son attends a top 25 school.

Point is its up to you to decide what is best and what isn't. I recommend reading in the physician boards on here, the AAMC website for insightful articles and shadowing more physicians to get a better sense if medicine is right for you. Truth is, no premed in the world will ever get how difficult medicine is until it is too late and you're in the thick of things. The only thing I absolutely highly recommend is that you attend the best school you can for the most opportunities and preferably one with the lowest debt.

 

[ruedjgtc]

You can always find someone to complain about their job, period.

 

[SurgeDO]

**** every doctor who has said that to you. medicine is the best thing in the world, and those who disagree are a bunch of blow hards.

there are a lot of miserable physicians simply because they were brought up in the days of $1000 stitches and free haircuts. reimbursements have changed and patients think they know more than you because Dr. Oz told them pumpkin seeds will melt away their fat flaps. tough ****.

times have changed but the reasons to love medicine have not. we can still drill holes in heads, watch brains pulse, and remove tumors. we can still tell families we caught their father's cancer in time before it spread. we are still the first to welcome human beings into the world and watch mothers and fathers rejoice. we are still the first ones who are called when all hell breaks lose and bullets need extraction, legs need amputation, and and lungs need inflation.

if you know you love medicine, rid your life of these physicians and their toxic attitudes. maintain a healthy dose of naivety. medicine is awesome, and i would be absolutely miserable without it.

 

[BestDoctorEver]

I guess it's too late for me to get out... @csx Why didn't you post that earlier--like two months ago?

 

[TheWeeIceMan]

**** every doctor who has said that to you. medicine is the best thing in the world, and those who disagree are a bunch of blow hards.

there are a lot of miserable physicians simply because they were brought up in the days of $1000 stitches and free haircuts. reimbursements have changed and patients think they know more than you because Dr. Oz told them pumpkin seeds will melt away their fat flaps. tough ****.

times have changed but the reasons to love medicine have not. we can still drill holes in heads, watch brains pulse, and remove tumors. we can still tell families we caught their father's cancer in time before it spread. we are still the first to welcome human beings into the world and watch mothers and fathers rejoice. we are still the first ones who are called when all hell breaks lose and bullets need extraction, legs need amputation, and and lungs need inflation.

if you know you love medicine, rid your life of these physicians and their toxic attitudes. maintain a healthy dose of naivety. medicine is awesome, and i would be absolutely miserable without it.

Every pre-med in pre-allo is about to like this post.

 

[Conflagration]

Every pre-med in pre-allo is about to like this post.

Can you fault them? It's very charismatic; it's got that kind of energy that people here feed on. It's uplifting and fuels that "be proud to be an underdog" mentality.

You may disagree about its validity, but it is indeed a rare niche of the world that we're all going after. No other profession is so universally valued (except the oldest one, but I don't want syphilis or HIV anytime soon).

 

[Rustie]

Let's pretend that all of us pre-med students are equally as interested in every other field of work as we are medicine. Obviously this is not true, but let's just say it is so that way we can compare different potential careers.

As someone said earlier in the thread, job security for software programmers and engineers is low. In contrast, doctors have excellent job security. Bankers have great hours, but the security is again quite poor. I have a friend who's father was a credit union executive, and it took his dad over nine months to find a new executive-level position -- and it was halfway across the country. His family had to pack up their life and take it plane flights away from family and friends.

Job security for doctors is fantastic. Even if you had to leave your current practice, there'd likely be nearby job opportunities. In engineering, that's questionable, particularly if you want a similar salary to what you had. This holds especially true in the business world.

Law is endlessly fascinating (in my opinion), but schools are simply pumping out far too many J.D.'s for the market to handle. Unless you go to a top-tier school, are excellent at what you do, and half a little bit of luck, law is not going to be lucrative. In fact, it might be a life of occasional unemployment and/or mediocre practice.

If these doctors say that they would not go back into medicine, then clearly medicine is not their sole professional passion (which isn't something I'm demonizing). If that's the case, what else would they want to go into? No other profession is as stable and lucrative straight out of college. The downside of medicine are the potentially arduous and inconsistent hours, as well as the long schooling/debt.

I guess what I'm saying is that medicine offers a lot of stability that other jobs simply do not, and that's to mention how many of those "other jobs" have plenty of people who hate what they do.

There's a reason why every mother in the world seems to push their kids into medicine. It's personally rewarding, prestigious, lucrative, and stable.

 

[CardiologyPrincess]

I'm premed and not naive, I've been a cna, hospice aid and med tech, I currently volunteer every Monday at OHSU in the cardiology icu. My jobs have been stressful and rewarding and I am looking forward to becoming a cardiac physician. I do agree that some people aren't cut out because it's not like the **** on TV. I watched a RN direct a LPN last week to "grab a hoyer!" Instead she grabbed a sit to stand and said "this?" And then the rn asked her to "grab the sling " and she grabbed the incontinent pad, the rn said "no, the SLING" and she grabbed the draw sheet.. Working your way up is a huge advantage.

 

[CardiologyPrincess]

I'm not worried about my avi but thanks for the advice I appreciate it, perhaps I'll change it later.

In hs my friends dad's heart imploded and was englarged, cardiomegaly and ever since I have been interested

 

[Law2Doc]

Let's pretend that all of us pre-med students are equally as interested in every other field of work as we are medicine. Obviously this is not true, but let's just say it is so that way we can compare different potential careers.

As someone said earlier in the thread, job security for software programmers and engineers is low. In contrast, doctors have excellent job security. Bankers have great hours, but the security is again quite poor. I have a friend who's father was a credit union executive, and it took his dad over nine months to find a new executive-level position -- and it was halfway across the country. His family had to pack up their life and take it plane flights away from family and friends.

Job security for doctors is fantastic. Even if you had to leave your current practice, there'd likely be nearby job opportunities. In engineering, that's questionable, particularly if you want a similar salary to what you had. This holds especially true in the business world.

Law is endlessly fascinating (in my opinion), but schools are simply pumping out far too many J.D.'s for the market to handle. Unless you go to a top-tier school, are excellent at what you do, and half a little bit of luck, law is not going to be lucrative. In fact, it might be a life of occasional unemployment and/or mediocre practice.

If these doctors say that they would not go back into medicine, then clearly medicine is not their sole professional passion (which isn't something I'm demonizing). If that's the case, what else would they want to go into? No other profession is as stable and lucrative straight out of college. The downside of medicine are the potentially arduous and inconsistent hours, as well as the long schooling/debt.

I guess what I'm saying is that medicine offers a lot of stability that other jobs simply do not, and that's to mention how many of those "other jobs" have plenty of people who hate what they do.

There's a reason why every mother in the world seems to push their kids into medicine. It's personally rewarding, prestigious, lucrative, and stable.

No no no no no. Really faulty reasoning here. Do not choose your career based in job stability. I will guaranty that if that's the biggest selling point you will hate it.

Medicine is a good career for the right person. but not for everyone. You have to figure out if it's something you will enjoy because it's very long hours and all consuming and if you don't enjoy it, its not something you can just endure and live for the weekend. There are tons of frustrations and its not always what you expect so you really need to go into it with your eyes open. It's not scrubs or Greys. It's physically and emotionally hard, always with too much to know and a lot of making decisions despite incomplete information. You will deal with death and disease. You will lose countless hours of sleep. You will miss tons of family and friend events. But to the guy/gal with the right passion and temperament, it's all worth it. That's why many if the doctors the OP talked to panned the field -- they weren't part of that small subgroup for whom medicine was the right path. It is not for everyone. They were probably part of that subgroup that went into it to "save lives", or more vaguely to "help people" or because of job security or prestige or money or because their mothers pushed it -- all totally unsustainable reasons which will result in hating your job. You need to really enjoy the day to day function or it's a Life sentence without parole. It has to be something you are genuinely interested in. The people who get into med school can thrive in most other fields, so you really have a choice. Don't ever be swayed by job security -- the cream always rises to the top. If you find what you love you probably can find a way to keep a job -- even in law, banking or whatever. That's a foolhardy reason to choose medicine. Plus it kind of ignores the fact that job markets are pretty bad in fields like pathology, radiology, and cardiology right now, probably more specialties to come, and many people are having to scrounge and relocate because the jobs in the states they want to practice just aren't there.

 

[NickNaylor]

Let's pretend that all of us pre-med students are equally as interested in every other field of work as we are medicine. Obviously this is not true, but let's just say it is so that way we can compare different potential careers.

As someone said earlier in the thread, job security for software programmers and engineers is low. In contrast, doctors have excellent job security. Bankers have great hours, but the security is again quite poor. I have a friend who's father was a credit union executive, and it took his dad over nine months to find a new executive-level position -- and it was halfway across the country. His family had to pack up their life and take it plane flights away from family and friends.

Job security for doctors is fantastic. Even if you had to leave your current practice, there'd likely be nearby job opportunities. In engineering, that's questionable, particularly if you want a similar salary to what you had. This holds especially true in the business world.

Law is endlessly fascinating (in my opinion), but schools are simply pumping out far too many J.D.'s for the market to handle. Unless you go to a top-tier school, are excellent at what you do, and half a little bit of luck, law is not going to be lucrative. In fact, it might be a life of occasional unemployment and/or mediocre practice.

If these doctors say that they would not go back into medicine, then clearly medicine is not their sole professional passion (which isn't something I'm demonizing). If that's the case, what else would they want to go into? No other profession is as stable and lucrative straight out of college. The downside of medicine are the potentially arduous and inconsistent hours, as well as the long schooling/debt.

I guess what I'm saying is that medicine offers a lot of stability that other jobs simply do not, and that's to mention how many of those "other jobs" have plenty of people who hate what they do.

There's a reason why every mother in the world seems to push their kids into medicine. It's personally rewarding, prestigious, lucrative, and stable.

What on earth are you talking about? Almost everything you wrote in that post is wrong. Enginers and software folks don't have good job security? Are you kidding? I have multiple friends who studied engineering at not-great-schools who walked into $80k/year positions with gurantees to fund continuing training.Those are two of the most in-demand fields around. Bankers work "great hours?" What? Maybe once you're several years into your career, but certainly not straight out of college. The hours are equivalent to if not worse than those in medicine. Also, medicine is not prestigious. Get that out of your head. The average patient thinks you're ripping them off and has no respect for your education or training.

 

[DermViser]

Does SDN count as "private" communication for your count? In that case, I'd go with 8 our of 9 since I am grateful for having gone to medical school and have never warned anyone, including my own family members, not to go into it.

Yes, and when did you graduate from med school? Your debt is nothing like for those entering now. There are much easier pathways with a better ROI esp. if one is intent on practicing IM, FM, or Peds.

 

[DermViser]

You can Google for more info but the satisfaction rate is low. This doesn't mean you aren't going to find happy doctors. One article I read stated majority of doctors do not recommend family members to go into it. The thing is more older docs are going to be happier because they are already established and may have lived thru the golden age of medicine. Younger docs are not and when you graduate it will be even worse. Salary keeps tanking vs inflation and respect keeps going down.

I was actually just talking to a senior resident today. He went to med school 7 yrs ago. Now the tuition at his med school almost doubled per year. Its ridiculous.

Bottom line is only do it if you know you love it. You think you'll look forward to going to work every morning even if its 12+ hr shifts everyday. Otherwise seriously consider other options.

If you look at tuition rates: https://services.aamc.org/tsfreports/, you'll see how ridiculous tuition rates have risen (and I would argue not with an accompanying increased value).

 

[DermViser]

Everybody I know loves their work (including me!).

You're also in academia.

 

[DermViser]

Why do you care if other physicians hate their job? You know what being a physician entails.. You have shadowed plenty I presume. If helping individuals return to better health is your goal in life and you could see yourself doing it for a career then that's all you need to know. The financial aspect of it should be negligible and so should obamacare.

---

 

[DermViser]

I guess it's too late for me to get out... @csx Why didn't you post that earlier--like two months ago?

Actually you can, before the sinkhole of debt reaches 6 digits.

 

[DermViser]

I'm not worried about my avi but thanks for the advice I appreciate it, perhaps I'll change it later.

In hs my friends dad's heart imploded and was englarged, cardiomegaly and ever since I have been interested

I doubt your friend's dad's heart "imploded". Failed maybe, but not imploded or exploded.

Also probably not good idea to be fixated on a specialty as an MS-1, esp. as Cardiology requires a residency beforehand. Based on your selfie avatar, I have you pegged for Derm for some reason.

 

[DermViser]

Let's pretend that all of us pre-med students are equally as interested in every other field of work as we are medicine. Obviously this is not true, but let's just say it is so that way we can compare different potential careers.

As someone said earlier in the thread, job security for software programmers and engineers is low. In contrast, doctors have excellent job security. Bankers have great hours, but the security is again quite poor. I have a friend who's father was a credit union executive, and it took his dad over nine months to find a new executive-level position -- and it was halfway across the country. His family had to pack up their life and take it plane flights away from family and friends.

Job security for doctors is fantastic. Even if you had to leave your current practice, there'd likely be nearby job opportunities. In engineering, that's questionable, particularly if you want a similar salary to what you had. This holds especially true in the business world.

Law is endlessly fascinating (in my opinion), but schools are simply pumping out far too many J.D.'s for the market to handle. Unless you go to a top-tier school, are excellent at what you do, and half a little bit of luck, law is not going to be lucrative. In fact, it might be a life of occasional unemployment and/or mediocre practice.

If these doctors say that they would not go back into medicine, then clearly medicine is not their sole professional passion (which isn't something I'm demonizing). If that's the case, what else would they want to go into? No other profession is as stable and lucrative straight out of college. The downside of medicine are the potentially arduous and inconsistent hours, as well as the long schooling/debt.

I guess what I'm saying is that medicine offers a lot of stability that other jobs simply do not, and that's to mention how many of those "other jobs" have plenty of people who hate what they do.

There's a reason why every mother in the world seems to push their kids into medicine. It's personally rewarding, prestigious, lucrative, and stable.

Wow, so much fail in this post it's not even funny. @Law2Doc and @NickNaylor covered the jist of it. I will say this: Do NOT go into the profession of medicine for the reason of job security. You will abhor it.

 

[DermViser]

No no no no no. Really faulty reasoning here. Do not choose your career based in job stability. I will guaranty that if that's the biggest selling point you will hate it.

Medicine is a good career for the right person. but not for everyone. You have to figure out if it's something you will enjoy because it's very long hours and all consuming and if you don't enjoy it, its not something you can just endure and live for the weekend. There are tons of frustrations and its not always what you expect so you really need to go into it with your eyes open. It's not scrubs or Greys. It's physically and emotionally hard, always with too much to know and a lot of making decisions despite incomplete information. You will deal with death and disease. You will lose countless hours of sleep. You will miss tons of family and friend events. But to the guy/gal with the right passion and temperament, it's all worth it. That's why many if the doctors the OP talked to panned the field -- they weren't part of that small subgroup for whom medicine was the right path. It is not for everyone. They were probably part of that subgroup that went into it to "save lives", or more vaguely to "help people" or because of job security or prestige or money or because their mothers pushed it -- all totally unsustainable reasons which will result in hating your job. You need to really enjoy the day to day function or it's a Life sentence without parole. It has to be something you are genuinely interested in. The people who get into med school can thrive in most other fields, so you really have a choice. Don't ever be swayed by job security -- the cream always rises to the top. If you find what you love you probably can find a way to keep a job -- even in law, banking or whatever. That's a foolhardy reason to choose medicine. Plus it kind of ignores the fact that job markets are pretty bad in fields like pathology, radiology, and cardiology right now, probably more specialties to come, and many people are having to scrounge and relocate because the jobs in the states they want to practice just aren't there.

 

[nOchemallday]

No no no no no. Really faulty reasoning here. Do not choose your career based in job stability. I will guaranty that if that's the biggest selling point you will hate it.

Medicine is a good career for the right person. but not for everyone. You have to figure out if it's something you will enjoy because it's very long hours and all consuming and if you don't enjoy it, its not something you can just endure and live for the weekend. There are tons of frustrations and its not always what you expect so you really need to go into it with your eyes open. It's not scrubs or Greys. It's physically and emotionally hard, always with too much to know and a lot of making decisions despite incomplete information. You will deal with death and disease. You will lose countless hours of sleep. You will miss tons of family and friend events. But to the guy/gal with the right passion and temperament, it's all worth it. That's why many if the doctors the OP talked to panned the field -- they weren't part of that small subgroup for whom medicine was the right path. It is not for everyone. They were probably part of that subgroup that went into it to "save lives", or more vaguely to "help people" or because of job security or prestige or money or because their mothers pushed it -- all totally unsustainable reasons which will result in hating your job. You need to really enjoy the day to day function or it's a Life sentence without parole. It has to be something you are genuinely interested in. The people who get into med school can thrive in most other fields, so you really have a choice. Don't ever be swayed by job security -- the cream always rises to the top. If you find what you love you probably can find a way to keep a job -- even in law, banking or whatever. That's a foolhardy reason to choose medicine. Plus it kind of ignores the fact that job markets are pretty bad in fields like pathology, radiology, and cardiology right now, probably more specialties to come, and many people are having to scrounge and relocate because the jobs in the states they want to practice just aren't there.

What on earth are you talking about? Almost everything you wrote in that post is wrong. Enginers and software folks don't have good job security? Are you kidding? I have multiple friends who studied engineering at not-great-schools who walked into $80k/year positions with gurantees to fund continuing training.Those are two of the most in-demand fields around. Bankers work "great hours?" What? Maybe once you're several years into your career, but certainly not straight out of college. The hours are equivalent to if not worse than those in medicine. Also, medicine is not prestigious. Get that out of your head. The average patient thinks you're ripping them off and has no respect for your education or training.

The grass is always greener.

If I understand correctly, the argument is that one should not do something simply because of job security/good pay, but rather because s/he enjoys it. I'll ignore the fact that the quote in question says to " pretend that all of us pre-med students are equally as interested in every other field of work" whether that be highly enjoy or absolutely hate medicine and all other fields. The argument for pursuing enjoyment rather than job stability/pay is that there are plenty of careers out there besides physician that have job security and are well paid - idealistically to the point that one's enjoyment in a particular job exceeds his/her desire for job security and good pay. But what if someone enjoys being a candlestick maker so much it doesn't even feel like work because it's so fun. I would venture to say it's a declining field with poor job stability and poor pay (ballpark 15$/hr), but you'll enjoy it day in and day out. Heck, "If you find what you love you probably can find a way to keep a job." Anyone preparing to spend a decade in school and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt should consider all aspects of the job. Anyone in any field for that matter should consider all aspects of their job. I agree that job stability should not be the chief deciding factor, but it cannot simply be overlooked. Nor can the money, nor can the push of family, nor can the benefits, nor can any other aspect or ideal. Indeed, nor can the enjoyment.

If you have never been unemployed for a significant amount (1+ yrs) of time, then how can you profoundly understand the importance of job security? If you have never made <35K/yr for a significant amount (5+yrs) of your not-in-school life, how can you profoundly understand the importance of "decent" pay? If you've never had to live in a family that is utterly disappointed in you every moment they see you, how can you profoundly understand the importance of family values? If you've never experienced a horrific accident while uninsured, how can you profoundly understand the importance of a good benefits package? If you've never worked for a company whose sole purpose is to manufacture products that hurt people, how can you profoundly understand the importance of wanting to help people?

So I'll reiterate, the grass is always greener.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Maybe this is part of a larger conspiracy to reduce the number of med school applicants.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

There are much easier pathways with a better ROI esp. if one is intent on practicing IM, FM, or Peds.

There are no other pathways to do what I have done in my career and continue to do. I meet regularly with all sorts of folks from pre-meds to junior attendings. If they are interested in the easiest pathway with a better ROI, then I would encourage them to do something else other than academic subspecialty pediatrics. I have no idea why someone would want to take the easiest path in life, but that's their choice and I respect it.

 

[DermViser]

There are no other pathways to do what I have done in my career and continue to do. I meet regularly with all sorts of folks from pre-meds to junior attendings. If they are interested in the easiest pathway with a better ROI, then I would encourage them to do something else other than academic subspecialty pediatrics. I have no idea why someone would want to take the easiest path in life, but that's their choice and I respect it.

Your career trajectory is not what this discussion is about esp. in academics. One can be a PA or NP and also practice and do many of the same things in General Peds if not subspecialty Peds. Simple reason why many might want to take an easier path - bc the MD pathway is ridiculously prolonged and people have lifestyle and family concerns. I realize it's a generational difference.

 

[oldbearprofessor]

The first post in this thread did not exclude academic medicine did it? I trained post-college in med school, 3 year residency, a two year clinical fellowship and two research fellowships for a total of 4 years in those two fellowships before becoming an academic faculty memeber. Is the pathway longer now?

I don't agree that PA or NPs do the same thing that subspecialty peds do, but that's not related to this thread and is, honestly, a useless conversation.

 

[DermViser]

The first post in this thread did not exclude academic medicine did it? I trained post-college in med school, 3 year residency, a two year clinical fellowship and two research fellowships for a total of 4 years in those two fellowships before becoming an academic faculty memeber. Is the pathway longer now?

I don't agree that PA or NPs do the same thing that subspecialty peds do, but that's not related to this thread and is, honestly, a useless conversation.

Actually it kind of is. PAs and NPs do a lot of things that physicians in their specific niche do. The only difference is scope. What makes medicine so daunting is the number of years involved: 4 years college + 4 years med school + 3-7 years residency + fellowship. Hardly something to sneeze at when you can get the same if not great ROI in terms of money and time with the NP or PA route.

 

[NickNaylor]

The grass is always greener.

If I understand correctly, the argument is that one should not do something simply because of job security/good pay, but rather because s/he enjoys it. I'll ignore the fact that the quote in question says to " pretend that all of us pre-med students are equally as interested in every other field of work" whether that be highly enjoy or absolutely hate medicine and all other fields. The argument for pursuing enjoyment rather than job stability/pay is that there are plenty of careers out there besides physician that have job security and are well paid - idealistically to the point that one's enjoyment in a particular job exceeds his/her desire for job security and good pay. But what if someone enjoys being a candlestick maker so much it doesn't even feel like work because it's so fun. I would venture to say it's a declining field with poor job stability and poor pay (ballpark 15$/hr), but you'll enjoy it day in and day out. Heck, "If you find what you love you probably can find a way to keep a job." Anyone preparing to spend a decade in school and hundreds of thousands of dollars in debt should consider all aspects of the job. Anyone in any field for that matter should consider all aspects of their job. I agree that job stability should not be the chief deciding factor, but it cannot simply be overlooked. Nor can the money, nor can the push of family, nor can the benefits, nor can any other aspect or ideal. Indeed, nor can the enjoyment.

If you have never been unemployed for a significant amount (1+ yrs) of time, then how can you profoundly understand the importance of job security? If you have never made <35K/yr for a significant amount (5+yrs) of your not-in-school life, how can you profoundly understand the importance of "decent" pay? If you've never had to live in a family that is utterly disappointed in you every moment they see you, how can you profoundly understand the importance of family values? If you've never experienced a horrific accident while uninsured, how can you profoundly understand the importance of a good benefits package? If you've never worked for a company whose sole purpose is to manufacture products that hurt people, how can you profoundly understand the importance of wanting to help people?

So I'll reiterate, the grass is always greener.

Not sure why you quoted me because none of that applies to what I said. I was simply refuting what that guy said - most of which was factually incorrect.