Do people on SDN realize the outside perception of pre-meds/doctors

[MrLogan13]

@MrLogan13 liking away at the posts but don't mind when the shots are fired towards those of brown or black persuasions.

How is that different from what you're doing here? And who says I don't mind?

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[pathologicalhopeful]

@MrLogan13 oh wow! you're self aware. The worst thing to be is aware but not try to change--that's in almost every spiritual book I can think of--that makes you even more guilty. There is also a law term that is based off of this notion. Maybe I am unaware of my biases there are times I stick up for Asians, just not when it comes to SDN forums.

 

[Lucca]

Right, I'm going to go ahead and call troll on this and give it 3/10

 

[Tliu91]

Everyone, please stop feeding the Troll....

 

[Microglia]

I don't like anecdotes, and I certainly don't like the racially charged debate, so I'm just going to leave this link here with a comment:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3623946/

There is a lot of thought put into how best to get a representative sample of physicians treating the diverse population of America. There is no great or perfect answer.

No matter what is chosen, certain people will be upset. The goal is not to make everyone happy, but to come up with a system where all patients feel represented without compromising physician quality. Learn more before heading into debate with your axe, and maybe there can finally be a more productive discussion here on this subject.

 

[pathologicalhopeful]

@chillinillinkillin007 : I hope with a name and avatar you are black, but of course, no one bats a eyelash at that I'm sure there's also another white guy with a Hispanic sounding screen name
@Omppu27 : you seem like the typical pre-med douche with a picture of an overrated 12-year old who screeches

 

[pathologicalhopeful]

I don't like anecdotes, and I certainly don't like the racially charged debate, so I'm just going to leave this link here with a comment:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3623946/

There is a lot of thought put into how best to get a representative sample of physicians treating the diverse population of America. There is no great or perfect answer.

No matter what is chosen, certain people will be upset. The goal is not to make everyone happy, but to come up with a system where all patients feel represented without compromising physician quality. Learn more before heading into debate with your axe, and maybe there can finally be a more productive discussion here on this subject.

This is the only intelligible response that didn't get really sarcastic, defensive, or upset, but then again I would expect such an enlightened outlook from an MD/PhD

 

[SnakeOilForSale]

If you hate "typical premed douches" and the rote learning in biology, and I can only assume enjoy engineering because of its challenges and bragging rights, why on earth do you even want to be a physician? You sound very difficult to get along with and I can't imagine you'd have an easy time interviewing anywhere, considering you're hating on the population of people you want to join.

 

[sharkbyte]

I agree @totu22, in engineering you just need a 3.0 to get into some firm. But you still have to interview well. Also most engineers come in already accepting their fate. Most engineers at my school came from very low income families and out of all the majors, engineering is more secure than other fields for jobs and has the quickest turnaround rate meaning work your ass off for four years, land a job. On average people in my graduating class make 80k-120k right out of college (with 5% annual increase and stock options) and are actually helping to support their families.

No one has addressed whether or not they are this outspoken on URM threads that consistently put down Hispanic and black applicants.

Lmao ok and you still haven't addressed why you feel it's okay to make incredibly large generalizations about groups of people such as pre-meds and Asians because a) you see some pre-meds complain and see some engineers not complain and b) you have an Asian boyfriend whose mom taught you how to cook something and you use this to allow yourself to think that you know everything about Asians.

Bleh why am I feeding the troll... I should be studying

 

[pathologicalhopefultwo]

@SnakeOilForSale The poor interviewing skills I was referring to was regarding some of my male engineering friends. At conferences I would always get the jobs and interviews when their skill set was MUCH better suited for the job. The people in the job interviews liked my confidence and me smiling and talking to them as real people. It's unfortunate for my friends because unless you are the product manager you do not have to be in contact with people so even if they lack social skills it doesn't really matter when I want the best product. I would rather have Steve Wozniak build my computer than Steve Jobs (lol)

If you think I would be stupid enough to write my sentiments here on an application than I hope you're not going into psychiatry or any cognitive field. Do you realize people can come across and portray a different side of themselves online vs real life? Do you realize that some people can adapt to situations--if that weren't the case MBAs and JDs would be out of a job.

I am president of most of my clubs and can talk to anyone about anything and I am not hard to get along with and I would bet that out of the 95% of who who posted I have a more diverse range of friends (in ethnicity, age, religion, sexuality) than any of you. The reason why I come across as a braggart is I want the Asian and white people on this site to realize some black and Hispanic people ARE smarter than them. What society perceives as intelligence isn't directly tied to race but more so family upbringing--not going on these crap statistics about IQ or SAT tests or the inferiority/superiority of some ethnicities. How can your intelligence be measured simply by tests? My boyfriend likes me because he thinks I'm smarter than him but I honestly don't think so.

 

[username456789]

I bluntly said to my parent, "well also a lot of premeds are in it for the money and the prestige--not to help their patients--getting a 42 MCAT and having a 3.9 GPA doesn't make you a better dermatologist, I'd rather have the 3.5 and 35 MCAT who had skin problems all their life so they can relate."

In a similar vein, I've long suspected that my plumber did not choose his job because of an intrinsic love of toilets and poop. I have a sneaking suspicion he's just in it for the money . . .

 

[pathologicalhopefultwo]

@GuyWhoDoesStuff you think people who had skin problems like their skin problems? no, they just know how to deal with them. Who goes "I love my psoriasis and eczema that's why I want to be a dermatologist" I would bet people who had pipe problems in their home growing up and had to fix them would be better suited for a plumber.
You're analogy doesn't make sense, but I guess it was supposed to be funny?
You probably scored the lowest of the physics section, good thing you never had to take the math GRE or the heaven forbid the LSAT. (you would do poorly on the comparison section)
Which hospital are you doing you're residency in, I hope it's not in UCSF, UCLA, UPenn, NYP or MGH but I'm sure you weren't smart enough to get in them

With some of your comebacks, I forget you guys are so limited and have focused your entire life on becoming a doctor

 

[breakintheroof]

@GuyWhoDoesStuff you think people who had skin problems like their skin problems? no, they just know how to deal with them. I would bet people who had pipe problems in their home growing up and had to fix them would be better suited for a plumber.
You're analogy doesn't make sense, but I guess it was supposed to be funny?
You probably scored the lowest of the physics section, good thing you never had to take the math GRE or the heaven forbid the LSAT. (you woulf do poorly at the comparison section)
Which hospital are you doing you're residency in, I hope it's not in UCSF, UCLA, UPenn, NYP or MGH but I'm sure you weren't smart enough to get in them

With some of your comebacks, I forget you guys are so limited and have focused your entire life on becoming a doctor, I have the option of a PhD, MD, or JD hell or even MBA.

Wow, OP got put on hold and immediately created a new account without breaking stride. Troll dedication.

 

[Lucca]

...streampaw? Is that you?

 

[username456789]

@GuyWhoDoesStuff you think people who had skin problems like their skin problems? no, they just know how to deal with them. Who goes "I love my psoriasis and eczema that's why I want to be a dermatologist" I would bet people who had pipe problems in their home growing up and had to fix them would be better suited for a plumber.
You're analogy doesn't make sense, but I guess it was supposed to be funny?
You probably scored the lowest of the physics section, good thing you never had to take the math GRE or the heaven forbid the LSAT. (you would do poorly on the comparison section)
Which hospital are you doing you're residency in, I hope it's not in UCSF, UCLA, UPenn, NYP or MGH but I'm sure you weren't smart enough to get in them

With some of your comebacks, I forget you guys are so limited and have focused your entire life on becoming a doctor

I accept your apology.

 

[pathologicalhopefultwo]

@IslandStyle808 obviously Asian
@GuyWhoDoesStuff obviously a typical douche white doctor

 

[IncognitoGuy]

@IslandStyle808 obviously Asian
@GuyWhoDoesStuff obviously a typical douche white doctor

:troll:

 

[DermViser]

Also, for the people saying it doesn't make sense for URMs to get in based on color because they will most likely not return to their communities once they have the money. Pleas realize that black and Hispanic culture is much different than Asian culture. If you're a poor white person or black/Hispanic your strength is realizing where you come from and needing to give back to that community, also when you forget where you come from, you get called out. I did economic case studies on China and of course I admire the Asian dedication to excellence in academics but the materialism that exists is despicable, it makes Americans look much less superficial and consumed in comparison. When you die, you can't take that stuff with you. Anyways, I am a mid-upper class URM and I would go to predominantly black and Hispanic communities for service and so would many other URMs I've talked to.

I also never looked into the difference between an MD and DO until recently, and people's disparaging comments about DOs are disgusting.

*Obviously these are generalizations, I am just wondering if anyone has thought of the patient wants or how doctors and pre-med students are viewed by those not in the field*

Ok, you just put a whole smorgasbord of topics (which seem to have the intent to inflame rather than be educated about) into one post hence the TL;DR response you're getting. Your holier than thou soapbox rant is also quite amusing. Your SDN handle, pathologicalhopeful, fits you quite appropriately (which I'm sure was inadvertent, if not outright trolling).

P.S. Your unadulterated blatant racism against Asian people many of whom are NOT born into affluent circumstances (whether you believe it or not), disgusts me.

 

[DermViser]

As an asian myself, I agree that for most asians, medicine is about all the money, prestige, and parents. They take bio majors (not me, but other asians) and have cookie cutter med school apps. This is annoying. But whatever their reasons for medicine are, you will also find over and over again that a lot of asians work really, really hard. I've met Indian women who just study 16 hours a day in a small cold room, scoring 260s on their USMLE. They never date or marry, and dedicate their lives to medicine and nothing but medicine. Does it matter what their reasons for entering medicine were?

You're right, those Indian women never have fun during medical school, never get married during medical school, etc. Wait...what?

 

[IslandStyle808]

@IslandStyle808 obviously Asian
@GuyWhoDoesStuff obviously a typical douche white doctor

More like a guy who made a witty comeback and a guy who liked it.

 

[DermViser]

@GuyWhoDoesStuff you think people who had skin problems like their skin problems? no, they just know how to deal with them. Who goes "I love my psoriasis and eczema that's why I want to be a dermatologist" I would bet people who had pipe problems in their home growing up and had to fix them would be better suited for a plumber.
You're analogy doesn't make sense, but I guess it was supposed to be funny?
You probably scored the lowest of the physics section, good thing you never had to take the math GRE or the heaven forbid the LSAT. (you would do poorly on the comparison section)
Which hospital are you doing you're residency in, I hope it's not in UCSF, UCLA, UPenn, NYP or MGH but I'm sure you weren't smart enough to get in them

With some of your comebacks, I forget you guys are so limited and have focused your entire life on becoming a doctor

Yes, I'm sure a Dermatology resident gives a **** about how he would have done on the Physics section of the MCAT, the math portion of the GRE, or the LSAT considering he's long past that stage.

Your arguments of elitism fall thru when you say one moment, "So I am asking all of you: haven't you had professors that weren't good teachers? They attended Ivy Leagues, MIT Stanford but they aren't good teachers. They have PhD s in their field, topnotch research but they can honest to God not teach?" and then say to @GuyWhoDoesStuff that unless you're at "UCSF, UCLA, UPenn, NYP or MGH" that you're not a smart doctor.

You prove that even URMs can be elitist and arrogant as well. Congratulations on your achievement!!!

 

[DermViser]

@IslandStyle808 obviously Asian
@GuyWhoDoesStuff obviously a typical douche white doctor

Why did you create another troll account when your first one was put on hold?

 

[DermViser]

Maybe I am unaware of my biases there are times I stick up for Asians, just not when it comes to SDN forums.

[IMG]http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000662593/polls_Want_A_Cookie_2439_236871_poll_xlarge.jpeg[/IMG]

 

[LilEngineThatCould]

Hmm...I feel so ashamed that this person shares cultural heritage with me...
Boy did they take us all a hundred years back lol an eye for an eye leaves the world blind. I hope you arrogance and Mother Theresa-wannabe syndrome shines through in your interviews because you aren't helping anyone by having the narrow-minded views you vomited all over this thread.

Oh they were put on hold again haha will there be a pathological_hopeful_tres?

 

[DermViser]

@chillinillinkillin007 : I hope with a name and avatar you are black, but of course, no one bats a eyelash at that I'm sure there's also another white guy with a Hispanic sounding screen name
@Omppu27 : you seem like the typical pre-med douche with a picture of an overrated 12-year old who screeches

Yup, you'll make a great doctor, if you even get to that stage.

 

[Strudel19]

What exactly is it that you want from us?

 

[gtbROX]

For the people that tl;dr-ed the OP's post, here is my attempt at a summary:

Good afternoon,
I am an URM female.
I graduated from an Ivy League School recently, currently I am attending getting an MS in EE (focus Signals and Systems)
I really do enjoy engineering but I prefer a career where I can directly assist people.
In high school the easiest subjects for me were biology and history, I retain information very well, so I majored in physics/engineering in undergrad to gain a new skill set.

I am a smart URM female.

Last year around this week actually I attended UPenn's hackathon that was geared to more global causes. My partners and I made a global health app and I was very happy, I also really liked the area. And ever since then I have it in my mind I really want to go to a great medical school like that one so I am taking the necessary steps to get there. However, coming on this forum has conjured both negative and positive feelings.

I did a global health project and now I want to go to a great medical school, but SDN makes me emotional.

The reason I did not major in biology was because I did not like the atmosphere of my first biology class; people were always stressed (making sure to project it on everyone) and irritating. My friend who is applying for med school and has stellar stats (>4.0 GPA in a hard science, 40+ MCAT) says the same thing of why he didn't major in any bio-related field.

I did not major in biology because bio students were always stressed and annoying.

I've talked to various people just to get an opinion, and most people do not like their doctors or dentists, and these are not in areas with terrible health or dental care facilities--great actually (LA, NY, SF). I talked to my parent, who taught at CUMC, and they said the admissions committees are tired of seeing the same people with good stats who only majored in bio/chem all their time in school because that's all they know and they are very limited. Oddly enough, a lot of music majors are accepted because they receive higher scores (music is very similar to math and very logical--so they most likely outscore on the physics section and I would imagine the verbal section also). I was an engineering major and I had friends across the spectrum and there is an unspoken (or spoken) consensus that pre-meds are arrogant and obsessed with prestige--it came up occasionally (not often) in discussion. Engineers are also very arrogant, but it's because they are bitter about their self-imposed lack of social interaction and engineers have the most credits to complete. Also pre-meds whine all the time about OChem. So I took OChem, I did want to see what the fuss was all about-- it wasn't nearly as crazy as everyone made it out to be--Digital Signal Processing is much much harder and no one complained. Actually, all my upper division engineering courses were much harder but people were happy to be there. Engineers also don't care that much to compare GPAs. If someone gets a job at Apple and someone doesn't get the job they think about why their interview might not have gone well and how they can improve NOT because "oh he got it because has family connections/is a URM." They focus on how THEY can improve to get what they want, NOT the perceived short comings of others.

ADCOMs disfavor bio and chem majors. Most Premeds are arrogant and prideful; Engineers are arrogant and prideful too, but it's okay for them to be this way. My classes are much harder than the classes Premeds take. Premeds are not as focused on self-improvement as engineers.

I bluntly said to my parent, "well also a lot of premeds are in it for the money and the prestige--not to help their patients--getting a 42 MCAT and having a 3.9 GPA doesn't make you a better dermatologist, I'd rather have the 3.5 and 35 MCAT who had skin problems all their life so they can relate." They responded "yes, but they don't understand that" my other parent is worse than an Asian parent (and that's putting it nicely) so I understand the pressure some ORMs face. But I've talked to a lot of my Asian friends who want to be doctors and when you get down to the bottom of it most of them are in it for the prestige, money, and to make their parents happy. I have lived life long enough to realize fulfilling those needs doesn't bring true happiness. I am new here, so when I hear ORMs complaining that the middle-class Hispanic or black person with lower stats got in and they didn't and "it's not fair." The Hispanic population is increasing, they want Hispanic doctors and someone to speak Spanish, and the black population does not want to be treated by pretentious white and Asian doctors who think they're better (actually same with Hispanics).

I can read my Asian friends' minds, and they all want to become a doctor for money and pride. Patients want to be treated by doctors of the same race and who speak the same language (OP assumes that Asians can't speak Spanish).

So I am asking all of you: haven't you had professors that weren't good teachers? They attended Ivy Leagues, MIT Stanford but they aren't good teachers. They have PhD s in their field, topnotch research but they can honest to God not teach? (Another blunt blow: getting a PhD in a pure science or any STEM related IS more difficult than med school) Why doesn't that same logic you think apply to doctors? There are a lot of people who hate the coldness of their doctors and just do not wish to visit doctors period. Are doctors and future doctors aware of this, or with their salary, do they just not care? Do some of you pre-med hopefuls realize your patients probably won't like you? Maybe you all think you'll be as good as House and that's cool..but people are seeking more from their doctors.

Have you ever had accomplished professors who were bad at teaching? I have not gone through medical school or graduate school, but I assume that a PhD is a harder degree to get than an MD. Patients won't like you (referring to Premeds) in the future.

Also, for the people saying it doesn't make sense for URMs to get in based on color because they will most likely not return to their communities once they have the money. Pleas realize that black and Hispanic culture is much different than Asian culture. If you're a poor white person or black/Hispanic your strength is realizing where you come from and needing to give back to that community, also when you forget where you come from, you get called out. I did economic case studies on China and of course I admire the Asian dedication to excellence in academics but the materialism that exists is despicable, it makes Americans look much less superficial and consumed in comparison. When you die, you can't take that stuff with you. Anyways, I am a mid-upper class URM and I would go to predominantly black and Hispanic communities for service and so would many other URMs I've talked to.

I am very cultured, but here are some generalizations about black, hispanic, and Asian people.

I also never looked into the difference between an MD and DO until recently, and people's disparaging comments about DOs are disgusting.

I have not researched the differences between the MD and DO degrees, but I disagree with people about DOs.

*Obviously these are generalizations, I am just wondering if anyone has thought of the patient wants or how doctors and pre-med students are viewed by those not in the field*

Okay...no idea how to translate this sentence...

Okay, that was my translation of OP's rant for those of you that want a summary of each paragraph.
Just wanted to practice my Verbal skills since I wasn't a Music major and according to OP, Verbal skills are lacking in my people.

Side note to OP: If you plan on applying to medical school, please please please make use of your school's academic/career counselors and have them look over your personal statement and other essays. I'd hate for medical schools to miss out on a . . . unique . . . applicant because of poor writing and grammar skills.

EDIT: I bolded the funnies.

 

[fedupURM]

@gtbROX, do you think that when someone's ranting, they want to check all the nuances of their grammar? This isn't an academic writing course but nice low-blow.
I'm sure when you rant or text, you don't always use correct grammar.
I have published solid-state papers with minimal revision but nice try.
You're pre-med currently, so in the next few years let me know which schools you are applying to, I'll make sure to take your "spot".
You understood what I meant, as did most people. That's what matters.

 

[sharkbyte]

This is a level of troll persistence that I haven't seen in a loooong time

 

[itsthat1guy]

@gtbROX, do you think that when someone's ranting, they want to check all the nuances of their grammar? This isn't an academic writing course but nice low-blow.
I'm sure when you rant or text, you don't always use correct grammar.
I have published solid-state papers with minimal revision but nice try.
You're pre-med currently, so in the next few years let me know which schools you are applying to, I'll make sure to take your "spot".
You understood what I meant, as did most people. That's what matters.

Account number 3 huh? Don't you have anything better to do on a Friday night?

 

[aegistitan]

The reason some people criticize URMs getting a leg up is because many of them tend to be upper middle class, and end up driving their new BMWs to school, so the wealthy stay wealthy, and thus had access to all of the prep materials, classes, and other things money can buy as their ORM upper middle class companions. Perhaps if this leg up actually helped URMs who are impoverished more often there would be less criticism.

 

[fedupURM]

The reason some people criticize URMs getting a leg up is because many of them tend to be upper middle class, and end up driving their new BMWs to school, so the wealthy stay wealthy, and thus had access to all of the prep materials, classes, and other things money can buy as their ORM upper middle class companions. Perhaps if this leg up actually helped URMs who are impoverished more often there would be less criticism.

At least this is a fair answer and not completely defensive. 1 of 2 on this post

 

[DermViser]

@gtbROX, do you think that when someone's ranting, they want to check all the nuances of their grammar? This isn't an academic writing course but nice low-blow.
I'm sure when you rant or text, you don't always use correct grammar.
I have published solid-state papers with minimal revision but nice try.
You're pre-med currently, so in the next few years let me know which schools you are applying to, I'll make sure to take your "spot".
You understood what I meant, as did most people. That's what matters.

At least this is a fair answer and not completely defensive. 1 of 2 on this post

Not surprising to see that your new handle has been put on hold.

By the way, your racist screed to me of:

• "You are most likely a whiter than paste physician who has minimal contact with Latinos or blacks."
• "Like I thought--you are the average white physician that has minimal contact with Hispanics or blacks and probably teach (or will teach) your children to stay away from the non lily-white (Asian) minorities,"

proves that you are quite racist which you accuse others of being. Also, why would I tell my children to stay away from Asians? Also with respect to blacks and latinos, you apparently have never been to medical school or worked at an academic medical center. Also undergrad as well but you went to an Ivy League where there are more lily-white undergrads.

You're not getting a serious discussion, bc your goal is to inflame and not actually hear meaningful answers.

 

[AlteredScale]

@gtbROX, do you think that when someone's ranting, they want to check all the nuances of their grammar? This isn't an academic writing course but nice low-blow.
I'm sure when you rant or text, you don't always use correct grammar.
I have published solid-state papers with minimal revision but nice try.
You're pre-med currently, so in the next few years let me know which schools you are applying to, I'll make sure to take your "spot".
You understood what I meant, as did most people. That's what matters.

Hey look pathologicalhopeful came back as fedupURM.

We are just as fed up of you as you are us.

 

[DermViser]

This is a level of troll persistence that I haven't seen in a loooong time

pathologicalhopeful --> pathologicalhopefultwo --> fedupURM --> next up fedupURMtwo?

 

[godawg300]

The reason some people criticize URMs getting a leg up is because many of them tend to be upper middle class, and end up driving their new BMWs to school, so the wealthy stay wealthy, and thus had access to all of the prep materials, classes, and other things money can buy as their ORM upper middle class companions. Perhaps if this leg up actually helped URMs who are impoverished more often there would be less criticism.

Please show me proof that MANY of these URMs are upper middle class. Or are you just pulling anecdotes out of your butt?

 

[DermViser]

Please show me proof that MANY of these URMs are upper middle class. Or are you just pulling anecdotes out of your butt?

The OP herself said that she is upper middle class.

http://magazine.good.is/articles/ivy-league-fooled-how-america-s-top-colleges-avoid-real-diversity
Call it the Ivy League’s dirty little secret: While America’s most elite colleges do in fact make it a point to promote ethnic diversity on their campuses, a lot of them do so by admitting hugely disproportionate numbers of wealthy immigrants and their children rather than black students with deep roots—and troubled histories—in the United States.

The problem, of course, isn’t that black immigrants are going to Ivy League schools in large numbers; educational success should be applauded no matter where the student is from. But the large numbers of African immigrants on American college campuses, coupled with the remarkably small numbers of native blacks on those same campuses, calls into question the effectiveness of America’s affirmative action programs. While affirmative action started as a system to right the wrongs of slavery and institutional anti-black racism, helping wealthy immigrants who weren’t here for those struggles doesn’t serve any of the program's original intentions.

“Very few black students [at Harvard] were able to be categorized under the term ‘just black,’” says Joy Alison Cooper. Cooper graduated from Harvard in 2006 and is now a Fogarty Scholar doing clinical research in Nairobi, Kenya. “There was an overrepresentation of Africans,” she says, “and specifically Nigerians. Nigerians were so numerous that in my senior year, my best friend helped start the Nigerian Students Association.”

The statistics are striking: Though African immigrants, many of them from Nigeria and Ghana, make up less than 1 percent of America's total population, first- and second-generation black immigrants comprise 41 percent of all black students at Ivy League schools, according to 2007 research from teams at Princeton and Penn. Another study, this one published in Sociology of Education in 2009, found that immigrant blacks attended select colleges at almost four times the rate of native-born African Americans. Outside of the Ivy League, almost 44 percent of African immigrants graduated from a four-year college, compared to just 18 percent of native blacks.

 

[godawg300]

The OP herself said that she is upper middle class.

http://magazine.good.is/articles/ivy-league-fooled-how-america-s-top-colleges-avoid-real-diversity
Call it the Ivy League’s dirty little secret: While America’s most elite colleges do in fact make it a point to promote ethnic diversity on their campuses, a lot of them do so by admitting hugely disproportionate numbers of wealthy immigrants and their children rather than black students with deep roots—and troubled histories—in the United States.

The problem, of course, isn’t that black immigrants are going to Ivy League schools in large numbers; educational success should be applauded no matter where the student is from. But the large numbers of African immigrants on American college campuses, coupled with the remarkably small numbers of native blacks on those same campuses, calls into question the effectiveness of America’s affirmative action programs. While affirmative action started as a system to right the wrongs of slavery and institutional anti-black racism, helping wealthy immigrants who weren’t here for those struggles doesn’t serve any of the program's original intentions.

“Very few black students [at Harvard] were able to be categorized under the term ‘just black,’” says Joy Alison Cooper. Cooper graduated from Harvard in 2006 and is now a Fogarty Scholar doing clinical research in Nairobi, Kenya. “There was an overrepresentation of Africans,” she says, “and specifically Nigerians. Nigerians were so numerous that in my senior year, my best friend helped start the Nigerian Students Association.”

The statistics are striking: Though African immigrants, many of them from Nigeria and Ghana, make up less than 1 percent of America's total population, first- and second-generation black immigrants comprise 41 percent of all black students at Ivy League schools, according to 2007 research from teams at Princeton and Penn. Another study, this one published in Sociology of Education in 2009, found that immigrant blacks attended select colleges at almost four times the rate of native-born African Americans. Outside of the Ivy League, almost 44 percent of African immigrants graduated from a four-year college, compared to just 18 percent of native blacks.

That's college though. Does anyone have numbers for med school? Poor students are always underrepresented at elite schools, regardless of race.

 

[DermViser]

That's college though. Does anyone have numbers for med school? Poor students are always underrepresented at elite schools, regardless of race.

Why would it be any different than medical school? When you've already filtered out at the undergrad level?

https://www.aamc.org/download/102338/data/aibvol8no1.pdf

 

[lumpyduster]

This thread... Wtf did I just read?

 

[DermViser]

This thread... Wtf did I just read?

A very angry, elitist URM thinks all premeds are elitist except her. Her original post is quite the doozy.

Edit: Oh, I forgot all Bio/Chem majors suck and you're all racist, unlike her. @gtbROX explains it much better than me.

 

[PlasticBag]

The reason why I come across as a braggart is I want the Asian and white people on this site to realize some black and Hispanic people ARE smarter than them. What society perceives as intelligence isn't directly tied to race but more so family upbringing--not going on these crap statistics about IQ or SAT tests or the inferiority/superiority of some ethnicities. How can your intelligence be measured simply by tests? My boyfriend likes me because he thinks I'm smarter than him but I honestly don't think so.

Am I the only one who sees this as the main reason behind the OP? It's quite sad, actually. She wants to feel "superior" due to her accomplishments but instead of being happy for herself as an individual, she has to put those accomplishments in the context of some weird racial crusade.



PS. Sorry, I don't know how to put part of a quote in bold while typing on my phone so I cut it out of a bigger quote

 

[Ace Khalifa]

I did not want to comment on this thread, but as an Asian American who is currently applying and wants to be a physician NOT for the prestige, money, or to please my parents, I have to say that I am absolutely disgusted by OP's comments. I have plenty of Asian friends who are also medical school applicants or hopeful premeds who I know for sure aren't doing this for those reasons either. OP really needs to get her head out of her ass. If she is a troll, then it's just sad and pathetic that she had to make 3 separate accounts to continue spewing ignorant remarks. If she is not trolling, then I truly feel sorry for her, as she clearly does NOT exhibit those traits that are desired in someone who wants to care for patients and collaborate with fellow physicians in the future.

 

[DermViser]

Am I the only one who sees this as the main reason behind the OP? It's quite sad, actually. She wants to feel "superior" due to her accomplishments but instead of being happy for herself as an individual, she has to put those accomplishments in the context of some weird racial crusade.

PS. Sorry, I don't know how to put part of a quote in bold while typing on my phone so I cut it out of a bigger quote

I didn't even see that quote and now I find her even more sickening than she already is - "pathological" fits her quite well. Anyone would be mad that someone like her will be benefiting from affirmative action policies at medical schools.

 

[gtbROX]

@gtbROX, do you think that when someone's ranting, they want to check all the nuances of their grammar? This isn't an academic writing course but nice low-blow.
I'm sure when you rant or text, you don't always use correct grammar.
I have published solid-state papers with minimal revision but nice try.
You're pre-med currently, so in the next few years let me know which schools you are applying to, I'll make sure to take your "spot".

Hey, I helped you out! I gave people a sparknotes version of your post.
Most likely you'll get into a better medical school than me, but then your classmates are going to be like "This girl be cray!!" Congrats on the papers though, that should distract ADCOMs from your . . . other qualities . . . enough to get you an interview.

You understood what I meant, as did most people. That's what matters.

Yay thanks! It was one of the more difficult verbal passages, but I'm glad I'm improving.

 

[user12]

there was some douche bag who posted in the mcat thread a couple weeks ago who got a 40, posted his score report, and then blatantly made fun of people with low scores (he was a REALLLL prick, trust me). but after reading her posts, id honestly rather hang out with the mcat guy than the OP. she doesn't sound like much fun.

 

[gtbROX]

you are most likely an extremely thin whiter-than-paste physician hopeful who has a creepy Asian fetish.
When you rant, do you make the extra effort to correct your grammar (especially if you know people will understand anyways)?
I've been to the Bay Area. I went two weeks ago. There are next to nil blacks (except for in the slums of SF since even Oakland is being gentrified) and the Hispanic population (although numerous) is extremely segregated.

Lol, this girl decided to PM me.

@fedupURM: Joke's on you! I'm an extremely thin Asian physician-hopeful with a creepy White fetish.

Thanks for the demographics lesson though. I didn't happen to notice where certain races were living in the area around me. I guess I'm just too color blind.

Your next screen name should either be entitledURM or emotionalURM.

OP you need to realize, this is the internet. If you have crazy opinions, don't expect to win people over. I genuinely hope that you don't share these crazy opinions with people in real life...

 

[AlteredScale]

Lol, this girl decided to PM me.

@fedupURM: Joke's on you! I'm an extremely thin Asian physician-hopeful with a creepy White fetish.

Thanks for the demographics lesson though. I didn't happen to notice where certain races were living in the area around me. I guess I'm just too color blind.

Your next screen name should either be entitledURM or emotionalURM.

OP you need to realize, this is the internet. If you have crazy opinions, don't expect to win people over. I genuinely hope that you don't share these crazy opinions with people in real life...

Wow this girl worn quit! Isn't there a way to ban her per IP address so she can't keep making accounts??

 

[IslandStyle808]

I've seen multiple people labeled as trolls in the past, but did most not even fit the definition. Those people either 1) too lazy to look up what they want 2) or just totally clueless about something

You might as well put this person in the dictionary because this is a troll in the truest sense of the term.

 

[SkipJunior]

Lol, this girl decided to PM me.

@fedupURM: Joke's on you! I'm an extremely thin Asian physician-hopeful with a creepy White fetish.

Thanks for the demographics lesson though. I didn't happen to notice where certain races were living in the area around me. I guess I'm just too color blind.

Your next screen name should either be entitledURM or emotionalURM.

OP you need to realize, this is the internet. If you have crazy opinions, don't expect to win people over. I genuinely hope that you don't share these crazy opinions with people in real life...

Since you mentioned it (and not saying you are one of them, I don't even know you) I have noticed some Asian females running after white males because they have "beautiful white skin" and they are "taller than Asian males". Just like I've seen some white females run after black males because they have large penises. Of course, note that I used the word "some" because most asian females and white females don't do these things.

The reason I bring this up is to emphasize that the physical appearance of a person should not be given so much importance. Most of the characteristics people may consider attractive i.e. height, skin color, size of penis etc. are out of anyone's control. So a tall white guy with a large penis is not anyone special, he was born that way. He didn't have to work for it or earn it. In that same token, a short dark guy with a average sized penis is not ugly, as some girls would say. Learn to expand your thinking. Respect and love people because of their character and personality, not because of the way they look. Trust me, the physical shell is temporary and loses its beauty quick. Don't be like the OP and a lot of Americans and focus on superficial aspects like skin color. Most of you don't need this advice so ignore it if it doesn't apply to you.

This is the reason I don't even give importance to my race or skin color. My skin color is like my height, I had no control over it. I'm not going to hang out with tall people only just because I'm tall. So why should I only hang out with white people only just because I'm white?

I'm glad American society is changing. In the seventies, only 3 percent of young Americans were in a interracial relationship. As of late 2014, around 20% of young Americans are in a interracial relationship and this number is increasing.