DO schools with lots of "rules".

[cryhavoc]

So I learned today that LECOM makes you dress up and you can't even drink water or something. Any other schools with weird rules? I figured asking in the thread of people already going somewhere would be better than the pre-DO thread.

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[cryhavoc]

First rule of DO club, don't talk about DO club?

 

[touchpause13]

LUCOM.
Besides that idk

 

[preDoGuy24]

So I learned today that LECOM makes you dress up and you can't even drink water or something. Any other schools with weird rules? I figured asking in the thread of people already going somewhere would be better than the pre-DO thread.

"Rules" in the way of dress code, water bottles, administrative crap etc should be pretty low on your priority list when deciding on school. Most people at LECOM could care less about the dress code or drink /food restrictions honestly.
The actually important rules IMO to look into are.
1. Board study time
2. 4th year schedule/rotation scheduling policy. Can you schedule auditions early and without a hassle? Are their restrictions in what hospitals you can rotate with?
3. Mentors, do they encourage students to pursue specialties as well as primary care?
4. Time off, specifically for interviews in 4th year.
5. Learn more about where and what the rotations are in...being sent to set up your own rotations everywhere you go kinda blows.


Just a few off the top of my head.

 

[cryhavoc]

I could see that argument for clothing but beverages? I never see litter on my college campus, why would med students litter? Plus if I don't have a cup of coffee to nurse all day, I don't know if I would make it. Completely serious.

Is it like a plastic rule? Could you use a thermos, who throws their thermos on the ground?

 

[shibby1111]

LECOM doesn't let you eat or drink on campus and you have to wear a shirt and tie.

 

[user3]

schools with substantial hours of mandatory class attendance:

LECOM (lecture curriculum)
Campbell
ACOM
WCU
VCOM's

All of these schools have dress codes too.

 

[MirrorTodd]

schools with substantial hours of mandatory class attendance:

LECOM (lecture curriculum)
Campbell
ACOM
WCU
VCOM's

All of these schools have dress codes too.

FWIW...that kind of depends on your definition of substantial. At ACOM, all labs are obviously mandatory and the guest lectures are usually mandatory, but they haven't been that strict on the mandatory class attendance for other classes. In their case, I understand them being strict however, since they're brand new and need to keep numbers to show the ACAP board or whatever the accrediting agency is. Plus, you can wear scrubs at ACOM, instead of business casual. I mean "technically" it's a dress code, but it's relatively lax. You just can't wear jeans or shorts to lecture, but if you're a girl then wear tights....I love tights.

 

[cryhavoc]

I grew up with dress codes, I can stomach them, no problem. Same with mandatory attendance, being forced to go helps me not fall behind.

But I'm not being a drama queen, I don't "need Starbucks", but the coffee I carry in a thermos is a huge deal to me. I have trouble focusing without it. I don't see why grown adults can't sip at a beverage, especially when it would allow them to actually pay attention to the lecture. As if being hydrated or caffeinated is hurting the experience for others.

From what I gather so far, only LECOM has this food and drink thing? If more have it I guess I could take caffeine pills or something.

 

[DocWinter]

Whatever on the dress code and water rules. C'mon, you basically can't wear jeans and a Tee. Khakis and a polo is good enough, except for LECOM obviously.

Don't sweat the small stuff.

I'm at ACOM. The going to class issue is overblown imo. You get many do at home assignments, and you obviously have to be in class for labs. I could work out 1-2 full days off from class a week if I planned right, depends on the week, and hit 80 percent. Still, if rather be in class because that's where I take notes at a reasonable pace and learn a good deal.

 

[cabinbuilder]

LECOM doesn't let you eat or drink on campus and you have to wear a shirt and tie.

This is not entirely true. The desks in the lecture hall are all wired with computer chips, etc. So they don't want liquids in the lecture halls since spills can short circuit the electronics. You can drink in the cafeteria and there are water fountains for breaks. It's not that hard.

 

[Mass Effect]

"Rules" in the way of dress code, water bottles, administrative crap etc should be pretty low on your priority list when deciding on school. Most people at LECOM could care less about the dress code or drink /food restrictions honestly.
The actually important rules IMO to look into are.
1. Board study time
2. 4th year schedule/rotation scheduling policy. Can you schedule auditions early and without a hassle? Are their restrictions in what hospitals you can rotate with?
3. Mentors, do they encourage students to pursue specialties as well as primary care?
4. Time off, specifically for interviews in 4th year.
5. Learn more about where and what the rotations are in...being sent to set up your own rotations everywhere you go kinda blows.

Just a few off the top of my head.

I disagree. While all the things you mention are important, any school that micromanages in a way that does not allow its students to bring water bottles on campus, micromanages a hell of a lot more than just that.

 

[cryhavoc]

^Somewhat this, no drinks in the classrooms because of computer makes sense. Dressing like the profession you want makes sense. When rules stop making sense, it is all a weird, micromanaging power play.

So I'm assuming studying on campus doesn't happen very often at LECOM? Are there any public libraries or quiet places near LECOM you guys study at (with coffee)? Or is studying mostly done at home?

 

[67552931811]

^Somewhat this, no drinks in the classrooms because of computer makes sense. Dressing like the profession you want makes sense. When rules stop making sense, it is all a weird, micromanaging power play.

So I'm assuming studying on campus doesn't happen very often at LECOM? Are there any public libraries or quiet places near LECOM you guys study at (with coffee)? Or is studying mostly done at home?

Except a crap ton of docs only wear scrubs in the hospital/clinic. Even in specialties where scrubs are irrelevant you still see docs wearing them.

I've never understood the "professional" dress argument.

 

[cabinbuilder]

^Somewhat this, no drinks in the classrooms because of computer makes sense. Dressing like the profession you want makes sense. When rules stop making sense, it is all a weird, micromanaging power play.

So I'm assuming studying on campus doesn't happen very often at LECOM? Are there any public libraries or quiet places near LECOM you guys study at (with coffee)? Or is studying mostly done at home?

After 5pm you can wear what you want. There is Gannon university library where many go. A lot of us studied at Wegman's grocery store at the deli so we could have coffee and food. My group studied at the school in the cafeteria so we could have drinks and food.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Except a crap ton of docs only wear scrubs in the hospital/clinic. Even in specialties where scrubs are irrelevant you still see docs wearing them.

I've never understood the "professional" dress argument.

Even surgeons have clinic hours. Most wear professional attire in the office. May hospitalist wear professional attire when rounding. Many hospitals frown on wearing scrubs out of the OR.

 

[67552931811]

Even surgeons have clinic hours. Most wear professional attire in the office. May hospitalist wear professional attire when rounding. Many hospitals frown on wearing scrubs out of the OR.

Indeed-- But, I'm not talking about surgeons.

Around here plenty of hospitalists wear scrubs when rounding. And maybe where you are it gets frowned upon but where I live (a major market) that is not the case.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Indeed-- But, I'm not talking about surgeons.

Around here plenty of hospitalists wear scrubs when rounding. And maybe where you are it gets frowned upon but where I live (a major market) that is not the case.

True, all comes down to the contract and expectations of the facility that hires you.

 

[Mass Effect]

^Somewhat this, no drinks in the classrooms because of computer makes sense.

No, it really doesn't make sense. And do LECOM classrooms have computers set up for everyone? I doubt it.

 

[CajunMedic]

schools with substantial hours of mandatory class attendance:

LECOM (lecture curriculum)
Campbell
ACOM
WCU
VCOM's

All of these schools have dress codes too.

The mandatory attendance at Carey is about the only staunch rule. 80 percent of lectures and 100 percent of labs (mainly OP&P and Doctoring Skills, they don't really check in anatomy unless there is are noticeable absences in lecture). It's the same policy as Carey's undergrad. We were required to have the same or stricter by the Board of Trustees.

Dress code is fairly laid back. Color-coded scrub top, with either matching scrub pants or dress pants. Running shorts/sweatpants on OP&P and some Doctoring Skills days. Anatomy is basically wear whatever you don't mind getting dirty and stinking of formaldehyde.

The only rule that's weird to me is after reviewing a a test in the faculty office, if you make personal notes, you can't take them with you-they have to be left with the exam. Even if they have no exam content on them. Especially, if it's stuff you don't need to bug a faculty member with.

 

[IAmNotaRobot]

I think NSU also has a dress code.

 

[Mad Jack]

This is not entirely true. The desks in the lecture hall are all wired with computer chips, etc. So they don't want liquids in the lecture halls since spills can short circuit the electronics. You can drink in the cafeteria and there are water fountains for breaks. It's not that hard.

We've got electronics wired into all of our tables. Knowing what I know about the sort of hardware they use to make that possible, a spill would cause a maximum of $200 of damage and could be repaired the same day. Thusfar, exactly zero such events have occurred in two years (since we upgraded our classroom). So you're telling me LECOM would rather every student go without beverages than risk the ever so slight chance that $200 might have to be spent to repair a table every 3 years or so? That just seems silly. The official reason I've heard has been that it allows them to minimize their cleaning staff and expenses.

 

[cabinbuilder]

We've got electronics wired into all of our tables. Knowing what I know about the sort of hardware they use to make that possible, a spill would cause a maximum of $200 of damage and could be repaired the same day. Thusfar, exactly zero such events have occurred in two years (since we upgraded our classroom). So you're telling me LECOM would rather every student go without beverages than risk the ever so slight chance that $200 might have to be spent to repair a table every 3 years or so? That just seems silly. The official reason I've heard has been that it allows them to minimize their cleaning staff and expenses.

Well, I started there in 2001 when computers and things "online" etc was quite a new thing. Sure the cost today is minimal but back then it was not. I guess the rules have just carried through.

 

[Mr Kenobi]

Mandatory attendance (besides labs and such ) in medical school with today's technology is such a waste of time (preclinical years). I for one would not have been able to do as well as I have done had my school had a strict attendance policy. Driving to campus and being in class just occupies so much time that one can be using more productively...even if that means just catching up on some sleep to recharge for higher quality studying later. I was one of those people who thought I would be attending lecture everyday when things started. That quickly changed... and with the switch to streaming lectures from home my grades astronomically rose. No attendance policy + recorded lectures = flexibility for you to find your optimal method of mastering the material and managing your time appropriately. IMO that is a pretty big deal in med school. Obviously this can be abused and can really promote procrastination and such, but if you choose to abuse it you won't last long anyhow so...

On that note, it is a shame MUCOM recently decided to abruptly enforce a strict attendance policy for this time consuming course we are currently in called "integrations"--basically a bunch of random last minute stuff mixed with PBL. That moment when the course director wants butts in seats against the will of just about the entire student body. SMH. Kinda putting a kink in our board prep time after having been conditioned to have the flexibility to do things a certain way for the past 1.5 years. Sigh, the joys of being part of an inaugural class.

 

[cbrons]

Man i feel bad for some of you DO kids. Mandatory lecture is probably the worst thing I could imagine.

 

[cbrons]

Mandatory attendance (besides labs and such ) in medical school with today's technology is such a waste of time (preclinical years).

Seriously

 

[hallowmann]

Mandatory attendance (besides labs and such ) in medical school with today's technology is such a waste of time (preclinical years). I for one would not have been able to do as well as I have done had my school had a strict attendance policy. Driving to campus and being in class just occupies so much time that one can be using more productively...even if that means just catching up on some sleep to recharge for higher quality studying later. I was one of those people who thought I would be attending lecture everyday when things started. That quickly changed... and with the switch to streaming lectures from home my grades astronomically rose. No attendance policy + recorded lectures = flexibility for you to find your optimal method of mastering the material and managing your time appropriately. IMO that is a pretty big deal in med school. Obviously this can be abused and can really promote procrastination and such, but if you choose to abuse it you won't last long anyhow so...

On that note, it is a shame MUCOM recently decided to abruptly enforce a strict attendance policy for this time consuming course we are currently in called "integrations"--basically a bunch of random last minute stuff mixed with PBL. That moment when the course director wants butts in seats against the will of just about the entire student body. SMH. Kinda putting a kink in our board prep time after having been conditioned to have the flexibility to do things a certain way for the past 1.5 years. Sigh, the joys of being part of an inaugural class.

I agree a lot with this post. It's one of the reasons I chose the PBL pathway. The bold is also definitely true, so I could imagine some people really needing to attend lectures to keep themselves on track, but most med students can do without them.

LECOM obviously has mandatory attendance, and its occasionally a nuisance in PBL, but time in lecture/class is so minimal (and its not like attendance is always taken) that its not a huge deal. I'm sure LDP is a completely different story though. From what I've heard, most of the time attendance isn't taken, but you don't know when it will be, so most people attend most of the lectures.

 

[HH Holmes]

I think NSU also has a dress code.

It's pretty lax -- you have to either wear professional attire OR scrub bottoms + a t shirt/scrub top.... Guess which the majority of class wears?

 

[Mass Effect]

Dress code is fairly laid back. Color-coded scrub top, with either matching scrub pants or dress pants.

Color coded? What are they coding for?

 

[ortnakas]

I agree a lot with this post. It's one of the reasons I chose the PBL pathway. The bold is also definitely true, so I could imagine some people really needing to attend lectures to keep themselves on track, but most med students can do without them.

LECOM obviously has mandatory attendance, and its occasionally a nuisance in PBL, but time in lecture/class is so minimal (and its not like attendance is always taken) that its not a huge deal. I'm sure LDP is a completely different story though. From what I've heard, most of the time attendance isn't taken, but you don't know when it will be, so most people attend most of the lectures.

I feel like I end up typing "I agree with hallowmann" a lot, but once again it's true. If you're PBL at LECOM, the rules aren't so bad. You get used to dressing up in a matter of weeks, we actually do get compliments from guest speakers on looking professional, and I promise you can survive a few hours of lecture/lab a week without coffee.

 

[NurWollen]

I agree a lot with this post. It's one of the reasons I chose the PBL pathway. The bold is also definitely true, so I could imagine some people really needing to attend lectures to keep themselves on track, but most med students can do without them.

LECOM obviously has mandatory attendance, and its occasionally a nuisance in PBL, but time in lecture/class is so minimal (and its not like attendance is always taken) that its not a huge deal. I'm sure LDP is a completely different story though. From what I've heard, most of the time attendance isn't taken, but you don't know when it will be, so most people attend most of the lectures.

Just out of curiosity, do you interact at all with students in the other pathways? Are you all considered to be in the same class together? Do you ever have activities together? Do you take the same or different tests?
Do you share class representives/student government officers?

Though my class is huge and I don't know everyone well, i do know quite a few. I feel like it is fairly unified. There's a good sense of 'we're all in this together.' It would be weird if there were a whole set of 'others' in our class that we don't interact with at all.

 

[Doctor Bob]

I hate the "no drinks at your desk" rule anywhere.
Joint Commission won't let me have a drink at my desk at work because somehow that's going to desterilize the whole department and lead to an outbreak of plague. So perhaps I have a chip on my shoulder about this topic...

Some rules are capricious and unequally enforced.

Does LECOM prohibit drinks in the administrative suite? They have computers and other electronics in there also.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Does LECOM prohibit drinks in the administrative suite? They have computers and other electronics in there also.

When I was there the no drinks did apply to staff offices too. The profs took their breaks together in the cafeteria for coffee.

 

[Doctor Bob]

When I was there the no drinks did apply to staff offices too. The profs took their breaks together in the cafeteria for coffee.

That's good at least. I may disagree with the rule but I can respect the equal application...

 

[cabinbuilder]

That's good at least. I may disagree with the rule but I can respect the equal application...

The thing with LECOM is that it's a private school run by the family who started it. So everyone who gets hired or matriculates does so with the understanding of the policies.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Just out of curiosity, do you interact at all with students in the other pathways? Are you all considered to be in the same class together? Do you ever have activities together? Do you take the same or different tests?
Do you share class representives/student government officers?

.

When I was at LECOM all 3 pathways did Anatomy/Embro/Histo together at the start of first year. We all had OMM together every Wednesday for 2 years. The exams were different for each pathway. The officers were over all 3 pathways. We all were considered to be the same class. Lots of clubs at LECOM where we did things together. We did our clinical classes together.

 

[22031 Alum]

The mandatory attendance at Carey is about the only staunch rule. 80 percent of lectures and 100 percent of labs (mainly OP&P and Doctoring Skills, they don't really check in anatomy unless there is are noticeable absences in lecture). It's the same policy as Carey's undergrad. We were required to have the same or stricter by the Board of Trustees.

Dress code is fairly laid back. Color-coded scrub top, with either matching scrub pants or dress pants. Running shorts/sweatpants on OP&P and some Doctoring Skills days. Anatomy is basically wear whatever you don't mind getting dirty and stinking of formaldehyde.

The only rule that's weird to me is after reviewing a a test in the faculty office, if you make personal notes, you can't take them with you-they have to be left with the exam. Even if they have no exam content on them. Especially, if it's stuff you don't need to bug a faculty member with.

It's nice that you guys get a head start on wearing the "geriatric attending" uniform. I can only assume the scrub top + dress pants combo is completed with sneakers.

 

[Doctor Bob]

It's nice that you guys get a head start on wearing the "geriatric attending" uniform. I can only assume the scrub top + dress pants combo is completed with sneakers.

Scrub top plus nice pants? That's the ER mullet.
Not to be confused with a T-shirt and scrub pants... also known as OB jammies.

 

[CajunMedic]

Color coded? What are they coding for?

Graduation year: We're 2018- light green, 2017 is Dark Blue, 2016 is Maroon and 2015 is light blue. Have no idea why the
code in the 1st place.

It's nice that you guys get a head start on wearing the "geriatric attending" uniform. I can only assume the scrub top + dress pants combo is completed with sneakers.

Never noticed, I'm guilty occasionally, especially if I have my 3 hour drive back home and don't want to trade for flip-flops when I get in the car.

 

[NurWollen]

When I was at LECOM all 3 pathways did Anatomy/Embro/Histo together at the start of first year. We all had OMM together every Wednesday for 2 years. The exams were different for each pathway. The officers were over all 3 pathways. We all were considered to be the same class. Lots of clubs at LECOM where we did things together. We did our clinical classes together.

That's exactly what I wanted to know. Interesting.

 

[67552931811]

Scrub top plus nice pants? That's the ER mullet.
Not to be confused with a T-shirt and scrub pants... also known as OB jammies.

Serious question: what's with ER docs and the scrub top + khakis look????

Do they seriously not realize how utterly stupid they look?

 

[Doctor Bob]

Serious question: what's with ER docs and the scrub top + khakis look????

Do they seriously not realize how utterly stupid they look?

I'm not sure. Some of my colleagues try this look +/- the white coat.
I find that more stuff gets spilled/splashed/sprayed on my pants than my shirt. So why you'd want to have your pants be an easier to stain material is beyond me.

And yea... looks dumb too.

 

[Weird_fishes]

Lecom also requires dress code for anatomy lab. Yes. Did anyone mention that yet? We had to go to good will to buy cheap professional clothes to change into for anatomy lab and change back into our Normal dress clothes after. No scrubs to anatomy lab! Guys have to still wear a tie..

Also attendance at graduation is a requirement for graduation. Regardless of whether your family lives thousands of miles away and cannot attend, you have to attend, alone. Or not get your diploma.

 

[Ophiuchus]

Lecom also requires dress code for anatomy lab. Yes. Did anyone mention that yet? We had to go to good will to buy cheap professional clothes to change into for anatomy lab and change back into our Normal dress clothes after. No scrubs to anatomy lab! Guys have to still wear a tie..
.

Just like everything else "mandatory" at LECOM:

Once I learned I could skip with no consequences, I didn't go in.
Then I came back on nights to look at the bodies.

For me, really the coffee thing is the worst. Because PBL, not a lot of lectures, but I have pseudoerotic fantasies about the untold worlds of pleasure that would be upon me if we could have snacks and coffee during PBL sessions. By and large, PBL isn't a terrible way to learn. But to have a cup of coffee!

It makes sense from the school's perspective though. Here at LECOM-B, literally one guy cleans the entire three-floor building on the weekdays.

 

[AnonymousD.O.]

Ya as for VCOM its about 80%, but I never paid attention in class. I just studied whatever I wanted.

Also during "Block 8", which is board review starting in June, you have a good bit of OMM and meetings, and a board review class that you have to show up to. But, at least for me it's turned into basically having 2 months off. I go to class and put on headphones. Class formally ends late May.

 

[JGimpel]

Let's get more specific when telling the board what kind of rules you have.

Clothing:
1. Basics that protect your modesty and prevent blindness in your peers: no hole jeans and upscale t-shirts. Guys that wear boots means you want to get ridiculed by everyone. SCRUBS!
2. Business casual: slacks and buttoned shirt. NO TIE!
3. Business professional: dress slacks, dress shirt and TIES!

Drinks:
1. No drinks in the room at all. If you're like many that go to your car to pop pills during the breaks, you'll have your own drink out there.
2. Drinks in closed NON-LEAKING containers and you pay for any damages to the school's equipment.
3. Red SOLO cups from the last kegger: at least wash them out before you bring them to school.