DO stigma

[madb0x]

Hi! I was wondering if anyone had a good article I could read about DO vs MD. I believe a slight stigma still exists today but I want to make an educated decision regarding which medical school I attend. A question I have is do DO's experience less of a salary than equivalently trained MD's?

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[Brorthopedic]

As far as salary goes, it is independent on whether your degree is from an MD or DO school.

The American Medical Group Association reports annually on the salaries of physicians in its member companies, which combined have more than150,000 practitioners. In its survey, family physicians showed a median income of $208,861 a year, well within the range for D.O.s. Pediatricians reported a median income of $209,873 and internists earned $214,307 a year. Both of those figures that correlate well to the averages for D.O.s. Anesthesiologists in the AMGA survey reported a median annual income of $370,500, comparable to D.O.s. The AMGA reports surgeons by specialty, rather than as a group, but their salaries were also comparable.

Source: http://work.chron.com/do-doctor-salary-2526.html

 

[madb0x]

As far as salary goes, it is independent on whether your degree is from an MD or DO school.



Source: http://work.chron.com/do-doctor-salary-2526.html

Thank you! That was helpful

 

[spiffysteve]

I thought this was a decent (albeit succinct) explanation. http://www.hpplc.indiana.edu/medicine/med-res-twokinds.shtml

I also found this quote, which I think is relevant:

"At the end of the day, when you walk into the patient room, and close the door, you are a physician. It does not matter what letters are after your name. All your patient cares about is if you care about them."

 

[madb0x]

I thought this was a decent (albeit succinct) explanation. http://www.hpplc.indiana.edu/medicine/med-res-twokinds.shtml

I also found this quote, which I think is relevant:

"At the end of the day, when you walk into the patient room, and close the door, you are a physician. It does not matter what letters are after your name. All your patient cares about is if you care about them."

Thank you so much! That quote is perfect

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Go to an MD school. By the time you participate in the residency match, the number of DO and MD grads will be very close to the number of available residency positions. This means, some grads will end up with undesirable positions or even unmatched. Everything being equal, if an Md and a DO apply to the same residency spot, guess who is getting the shorter end of the stick?

 

[Dr.Smexy]

Ahh the much anticipated monthly question of DO vs MD...I was feeling hollow inside without it for a while. For the OP, salary is the same for DO and MD. Getting the specialty of your choice? There is no argument DO get left behind with all else being equal. You can search for the recent MD vs DO thread for extensive information from attendings and residents.

 

[raysofillumination]

I though all the residencies were recently matched for both DO and MD's? correct me if I'm wrong...the only repercussion is if you decide to go DO and want a lucrative residency you might have to take the USMLE in addition to the COMPLEX.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I though all the residencies were recently matched for both DO and MD's? correct me if I'm wrong...the only repercussion is if you decide to go DO and want a lucrative residency you might have to take the USMLE in addition to the COMPLEX.

We don't know all of the negatives of the merger yet. The one negative is that osteopathic residency program are shutting down because they cannot meet ACGME standards (thus less residency spots). However, others will argue that it is a good thing because now the former osteopathic residencies have a higher standards to meet and thus residents will get a better education.

The one thing that has worried people is that with the merge those former AOA residencies will now take MD students. This means the once protected residences specifically for osteopathic graduates will face competition from US MD grads and possibly FMG/IMGs. If these students are better than osteopathic ones, then they will be potentially getting those spots. Some osteopathic program directors may prefer osteopathic student and some may not. This is the sticky situation that is going on now.

 

[VagabondKing]

I've only really seen the stigma among people trying to enter the profession (ie premeds) - the patients don't seem to care, the people 10+ years out of residency don't really care. Your paycheck will be dependent on the field you're in and how much additional training/specialization you did (excluding all other factors). If you have an acceptance from an MD vs DO, MD still has better residency options. (US MD that is, US DO >>>>>>>>> Carribean MD). Given the choice between taking a year, spending money on an SMP, redoing MCATs, applications, etc or just going straight DO - I think the answer is pretty obvious, DO hands down.

As far as the merger what's been said before is pretty spot on, anyone know when it'll actually be in full blown effect? I'm class of '19 but I heard '20 or '21 will be the first years to really experience it.

 

[Dr.Smexy]

I though all the residencies were recently matched for both DO and MD's? correct me if I'm wrong...the only repercussion is if you decide to go DO and want a lucrative residency you might have to take the USMLE in addition to the COMPLEX.

No there are much more going into this. DOs often need to have higher score on USMLE than MD, often lack significant research, and often have many stigma when it comes to their rotations quality. Again, search for the recent MD vs DO for the full info.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Given the choice between taking a year, spending money on an SMP, redoing MCATs, applications, etc or just going straight DO - I think the answer is pretty obvious, DO hands down.

I do not think it is that simple. It depends on the aptitude of the applicant, the specialty aspirations and the willingness to spend another year in school/SMP.

For those who screwed around in college but are rather intelligent and are looking for a competitive specialty, DO would do them a disservice. For many who want to do something non-competitive, esp general IM, peds or FM, its not a hard decision.

 

[VagabondKing]

I do not think it is that simple. It depends on the aptitude of the applicant, the specialty aspirations and the willingness to spend another year in school/SMP.

For those who screwed around in college but are rather intelligent and are looking for a competitive specialty, DO would do them a disservice. For many who want to do something non-competitive, esp general IM, peds or FM, its not a hard decision.

I agree to some extent, if you REALLY want to do plastics/derm and think you can honestly do well enough to get in there via the SMP/MD route then by all means. Otherwise, my school gets plenty of people into competitive residencies - last year we had a surprisingly large amount of ortho surgeons, a handful of ophthalmology matches, a neurosurg match, and a few other "top tier" specialties like urology & maxillofacial.

Personally I think the time/cost factor would make me pick DO>SMP=> (maybe) MD any day. Plus remember that SMP's aren't a golden ticket, they're pretty hard since you're essentially going through the first year of med school course-wise.

 

[Seth Joo]

Hi! I was wondering if anyone had a good article I could read about DO vs MD. I believe a slight stigma still exists today but I want to make an educated decision regarding which medical school I attend. A question I have is do DO's experience less of a salary than equivalently trained MD's?

I went through the application process at both, the selection process at MD schools is much more rigorous at MD schools, that is not a surprise. DO stigma or not at least being a DO gives you a chance to be a doctor, getting into tougher residency is much harder as a DO though. Also on occasion you are going to meet people who will question your credentials and education because you are a DO but that is going to be on a rare occasion.

 

[cabinbuilder]

Hi! I was wondering if anyone had a good article I could read about DO vs MD. I believe a slight stigma still exists today but I want to make an educated decision regarding which medical school I attend. A question I have is do DO's experience less of a salary than equivalently trained MD's?

NO NO NO NO NO NO NO NO with regard to salary.

 

[Instatewaiter]

I agree to some extent, if you REALLY want to do plastics/derm and think you can honestly do well enough to get in there via the SMP/MD route then by all means. Otherwise, my school gets plenty of people into competitive residencies - last year we had a surprisingly large amount of ortho surgeons, a handful of ophthalmology matches, a neurosurg match, and a few other "top tier" specialties like urology & maxillofacial.

Personally I think the time/cost factor would make me pick DO>SMP=> (maybe) MD any day. Plus remember that SMP's aren't a golden ticket, they're pretty hard since you're essentially going through the first year of med school course-wise.

There are more reasons than just derm and plastics to choose an SMP and try to get into MD. You are right though, an SMP is a risk and you can shoot yourself in the foot by choosing an SMP and doing poorly. It is not for everyone.

If you want to do anything academic as an attending then you would be best served by trying to go to an MD school where you can get much more research done (and have a much better chance of obtaining an academic residency). Second, if you want a competitive fellowship even in IM, you are better served going to an MD school and for that mattter if you want to train at a large, tertiary care center, an SMP might be a good idea. The risks are real though and many of these SMP programs are very expensive ($50K). There is an entire forum on SDN dedicated to this for those interested where questions can be answered (the post-bacc forum).

I also want to mention that there is a large difference between training in a 800 bed tertiary care + trauma center than training in a small 150-250 bed community hospital, especially when you are training in ortho or NS.

 

[VagabondKing]

There are more reasons than just derm and plastics to choose an SMP and try to get into MD. You are right though, an SMP is a risk and you can shoot yourself in the foot by choosing an SMP and doing poorly. It is not for everyone.

If you want to do anything academic as an attending then you would be best served by trying to go to an MD school where you can get much more research done (and have a much better chance of obtaining an academic residency). Second, if you want a competitive fellowship even in IM, you are better served going to an MD school and for that mattter if you want to train at a large, tertiary care center, an SMP might be a good idea. The risks are real though and many of these SMP programs are very expensive ($50K). There is an entire forum on SDN dedicated to this for those interested where questions can be answered (the post-bacc forum).

I also want to mention that there is a large difference between training in a 800 bed tertiary care + trauma center than training in a small 150-250 bed community hospital, especially when you are training in ortho or NS.

Very valid points brought up, someone reading this in the future in such a situation should strongly consider their future career goals and the type of physician they would like to become. I'm glad you brought up the research point especially - MD's are much heavier in research and it's pretty much a requirement to enter some of the more competitive/top tier residency programs. I know some schools will even adjust the pre-clinical curriculum and either incorporate research or make 4th year a research year. I have several years of research experience from undergrad but the only way for me to do anything research related in my school is to apply for summer fellowship programs.

Hopefully 10 years down the line DO schools become more research heavy but with the primary care physician shortage that this country is facing and the baby boomers getting closer to retirement age I doubt that'll happen.

 

[Instatewaiter]

Very valid points brought up, someone reading this in the future in such a situation should strongly consider their future career goals and the type of physician they would like to become. I'm glad you brought up the research point especially - MD's are much heavier in research and it's pretty much a requirement to enter some of the more competitive/top tier residency programs. I know some schools will even adjust the pre-clinical curriculum and either incorporate research or make 4th year a research year. I have several years of research experience from undergrad but the only way for me to do anything research related in my school is to apply for summer fellowship programs.

Hopefully 10 years down the line DO schools become more research heavy but with the primary care physician shortage that this country is facing and the baby boomers getting closer to retirement age I doubt that'll happen.

Research isn't for everyone (nor should it be) but sometimes you have to play the game to get ahead. Access to research would help DO students have the credentials to obtain academic residencies. So those who want to do it would have ample access. Those who don't want to anddon't need to, don't have to. As you point out, many of the more clinically rigorous IM programs are "academic" and are looking for not only strong students but people who have done a good amt of research. Most allopathic surgical programs essentially require research.