Do US pharmacists use the title 'doctor'

[Da Alchemist]

pharmacist teach patients about the medicine they are taking and doctor means teacher..so they are definitly doctors without arguement

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[naus]

Afterall, they have a specialized name at this point, it's wait for it.. hold on... Physician. *cough*

Are surgeons physicians?
If so, then the Columbia University College of Physicians and Surgeons is awfully redundant, eh?

Are surgeons doctors in the US? absolutely.

 

[naus]

pharmacist teach patients about the medicine they are taking and doctor means teacher..so they are definitly doctors without arguement

If you want to talk about etymology, then a second-grade teacher can be a doctor too, (in Latin, docere = to teach).
What something should be and what something is are two different things.

The pharmacist is not a doctor in the common use of the term in the English language:

The first entry of for the word "doctor" in the Random House Unabridged Dictionary:
1. a person licensed to practice medicine, as a physician, surgeon, dentist, or veterinarian.

The first entry of for the word "doctor" in the American Heritage Dictionary:
1. A person, especially a physician, dentist, or veterinarian, trained in the healing arts and licensed to practice.

The first entry of for the word "doctor" in the Oxford English Dictionary (OED):
1. a. A teacher, instructor; one who gives instruction in some branch of knowledge, or inculcates opinions or principles. (Const. of.) Now rare.


A pharmacist is not licensed to practice medicine. That is not his field, and if he wishes to practice medicine, then perhaps he should've gone to medical school.

 

[psurocks]

in my mind they shouldnt be called Dr.____

but Im sure there are some egotistical pharmacists who want to be called Dr.__

 

[KUMoose]

Thanks Naus for proving out the point. What you've proven is that Americans portray doctor = physician, dentist and vet. And we all know the American public is ALWAY right about an idea.

When's the last time a dentist practiced medicine? Or when's the last time (to use YOUR quip) a Vet or Dentist got up in response to "Is there a Doctor in the house?"

And yes the name is redundant, Naus, it's redundant because of the history of the colleges that merged to create Columbia. Furthermore, it's redundant, because at the dawn of the 19th century, physicians and surgeons were largely two distinct groups of "professionals".

in my mind they shouldnt be called Dr.____

but Im sure there are some egotistical pharmacists who want to be called Dr.__

Just like those damn Chiropractors, Dentists, Vets and Ph.Ds.

 

[Ortsac]

Personally, I think that anyone who possesses a doctoral degree should be able call himself/herself a doctor, especially in a professional setting. If we limit the usage of the word "doctor" to only those who "practice" medicine, then wouldn't we also have to distinguish the types of medicine as well?Yes, a vet calls himself/herself doctor but when it comes to a hospital setting with a human patient do you think that a vet would still insist to be called doctor infront of the patient? If anything at all, pharmacists practice human medicine even more so than vet's and dentists. So, why can't they use the title doctor? You probably know this already. There are pharmacists out there who are specialized in Oncology, Cardiology, Internal Medicine, etc. These people have completed residency training programs after pharmacy school, just like physicians do. So, it would not be fair to say that they are not qualified to be called doctors.

Also, even Johns Hopkins calls its pharmacy residents doctors. Check out the link: http://www.hopkinspharmacy.org/residents/bios/

 

[Da Alchemist]

If you want to talk about etymology, then a second-grade teacher can be a doctor too, (in Latin, docere = to teach).
What something should be and what something is are two different things.

The pharmacist is not a doctor in the common use of the term in the English language:

The first entry of for the word "doctor" in the Random House Unabridged Dictionary:
1. a person licensed to practice medicine, as a physician, surgeon, dentist, or veterinarian.

The first entry of for the word "doctor" in the American Heritage Dictionary:
1. A person, especially a physician, dentist, or veterinarian, trained in the healing arts and licensed to practice.

The first entry of for the word "doctor" in the Oxford English Dictionary (OED):
1. a. A teacher, instructor; one who gives instruction in some branch of knowledge, or inculcates opinions or principles. (Const. of.) Now rare.


A pharmacist is not licensed to practice medicine. That is not his field, and if he wishes to practice medicine, then perhaps he should've gone to medical school.

let me remind you...a second grade teacher didnt practice advanced extensive research to have a doctorate.... and pharmacist involves in healing of peoples health by medicine. a 2nd grade teacher only teaches how to draw circle and triangle so u shouldnt even think of that stupid comparison lol. what do you mean by doctors are only licensed to practice medicine? a pharmacist or pharmacy related like pharmacology knows all about "medicine" except disecting human body. besides, a physician wouldnt know what medicine to give the patient if the pharm people didnt invent a medicine for cure....by the way the american dictionary also says doctor is 2. a person who has been awarded a doctor's degree, ex: He is a Doctor of Philosophy. 7. an eminent scholar and teacher. so since the original word doctor came from latin which means "to teach" why is it in ur opinion that "to practice" medicine is the only legit way of being called a doctor? to practice is way different than to teach. the subject ask if us pharmacist use the title doctor...the answer is YES...1st reason is they went to a university with complex extensive research to earn a doctorate, 2nd...the american dictionary itself says doctor is a persons who has been awarded a doctors degree, and 3rd its part of the SDN= student doctor network, 4th without the pharmacist how can a physician explain or learn about drugs without the pharmacy help... so far i only read 2 reasons why pharmacist shouldnt be a doctor which are invalid reasons...they said pharmacist only studies 6-8 years..while a phsycian studies for 50 years...which has nothing to do with it lol and some said..pharmacist arent doctors because they dont disect human lol.....

 

[Da Alchemist]

sorry i didnt read ortsac comment, which is kinda the same to my comment above. i just read it after i posted.

 

[imperial frog]

The pharmacist is not a doctor in the common use of the term in the English language:

The first entry of for the word "doctor" in the Random House Unabridged Dictionary:
1. a person licensed to practice medicine, as a physician, surgeon, dentist, or veterinarian.

The first entry of for the word "doctor" in the American Heritage Dictionary:
1. A person, especially a physician, dentist, or veterinarian, trained in the healing arts and licensed to practice.

The first entry of for the word "doctor" in the Oxford English Dictionary (OED):
1. a. A teacher, instructor; one who gives instruction in some branch of knowledge, or inculcates opinions or principles. (Const. of.) Now rare.


A pharmacist is not licensed to practice medicine. That is not his field, and if he wishes to practice medicine, then perhaps he should've gone to medical school.

Unfortunately, two out of the three definitions you give kind of don't support your argument.

 

[Glowwyrm]

We have an MD on our team. He got his MD in Mexico and cannot legally practice medicine here in the US. However, he refers to himself as Dr. and signs all of his letters Dr. So and So MD. Now if *that* is not bending the rules, I don't know what is. He does recruiting for us. But I'm sure all the patients he recruits think he's a full-fledged physician.

 

[Glowwyrm]

If you want to talk about etymology, then a second-grade teacher can be a doctor too, (in Latin, docere = to teach).
What something should be and what something is are two different things.

The pharmacist is not a doctor in the common use of the term in the English language:

The first entry of for the word "doctor" in the Random House Unabridged Dictionary:
1. a person licensed to practice medicine, as a physician, surgeon, dentist, or veterinarian.

The first entry of for the word "doctor" in the American Heritage Dictionary:
1. A person, especially a physician, dentist, or veterinarian, trained in the healing arts and licensed to practice.

The first entry of for the word "doctor" in the Oxford English Dictionary (OED):
1. a. A teacher, instructor; one who gives instruction in some branch of knowledge, or inculcates opinions or principles. (Const. of.) Now rare.


A pharmacist is not licensed to practice medicine. That is not his field, and if he wishes to practice medicine, then perhaps he should've gone to medical school.

I find it funny how you just used the first definition since it was the only one that supported your argument. Since you just posted the very first definition, shall I post #2 in line?

2. a person who has been awarded a doctor's degree (hrm, could that mean a Pharm D is a doctor? Yep)

And another one:

2. a. A person who has earned the highest academic degree awarded by a college or university in a specified discipline.
b. A person awarded an honorary degree by a college or university.

Sorry naus, your argument doesn't hold water. A pharmacist with a Pharm D degree is indeed a doctor in the common sense of the term in the English language.

 

[WVUPharm2007]

The first entry of for the word "doctor" in the Random House Unabridged Dictionary:
a person licensed to practice medicine, as a physician, surgeon, dentist, or veterinarian.

A pharmacist is not licensed to practice medicine.

So a dentist can practice medicine? Sweet, I'm gonna go get a prescription for some triamcinolone cream for my football game sunburn. If I ever need to be intubated, I'll ask for a DDS, I bet they are cheaper than the ER. I'll get one of those medwatch bracelets that read: DDS intubation. Yup. Dentists practicing medicine.

Dude, you're ******ed. Seriously.
A) Who gives a flying f$ck about the title thing
B) You can't even form a rational argument
C) Yo mama.

 

[sdn1977]

Is this discussion still going on????? Hard to believe actually !

 

[imperial frog]

Hard to believe? We've only had about 20 bagillion threads on it.

 

[psurocks]

Thanks Naus for proving out the point. What you've proven is that Americans portray doctor = physician, dentist and vet. And we all know the American public is ALWAY right about an idea.

When's the last time a dentist practiced medicine? Or when's the last time (to use YOUR quip) a Vet or Dentist got up in response to "Is there a Doctor in the house?"

And yes the name is redundant, Naus, it's redundant because of the history of the colleges that merged to create Columbia. Furthermore, it's redundant, because at the dawn of the 19th century, physicians and surgeons were largely two distinct groups of "professionals".



Just like those damn Chiropractors, Dentists, Vets and Ph.Ds.

ok, I understand the argument
now could it be, Im just trying to reason, not necessarily my personal opinion, but could it just be that all the others you mentioned, eg, dentists, chiropractors, vets PHYSICALLY work on a human//animal, whereas pharmacists dont get involved in that physical sense? just a thought...

 

[Da Alchemist]

to all the ones who disagree that pharmacist shouldnt be called doctor. How come Dr. Henry Lee Ph.D is accepted as doctor? hes not a physician either.

 

[ForcedEntry]

whereas pharmacists dont get involved in that physical sense? just a thought...

I promise to be touchy feely

 

[Orthonut]

What an interesting discussion. I think in the professional setting it is certainly appropriate to refer to the person as Dr X.

however, it can certainly be overdone. Case in point: One place I interned at during tech school we had a...rather pompous instrument thrower surgeon, who had, among other credentials, a DVM, A pharmD, and a PhD in something or other (public health?). He/she would always sign memos as Dr XXXXX YYYYY, DVM pharmD PhD MSc MRCVS blahbitty blah blah (I mean, even on memos that went like "please don't park in my spot even when I am on vacation OR ELSE") Certainly, orders, official documents, papers/articles should have all creds listed-but come on, non-official memos and postit notes? get a life.

Behind his/her back we refered to him/her as "Dr Dr Dr Dr" probably not a good idea, but neither is throwing a rongeur at your scrub tech.

Like someone said on the last page, for me Hutch will do just fine. If you're not comfortable with that, you can call me doc, or Doctor Hutch. No need to drag out the O2 tank so you can have enough wind to recite all of my humongous names and titles.

 

[Jonassen]

2. a person who has been awarded a doctor's degree (hrm, could that mean a Pharm D is a doctor? Yep).

Not all people with doctorate degrees can call themselves doctors. English is not a logical language (no natural language is). As mentioned earlier by others, juris doctors (lawyers) do not call themselves doctors.

In my opinion, the common English term "doctor" fits into 2 categories:
1. Someone who makes medical diagnosis: a medical doctor, dentist, vet, barefoot doctors in Mao's China
2. A Ph.D.

This has to do with tradition. It may not seem to make sense, but it doesn't have to. That there is so much controversy on pharmacists being called "doctor" implies that it is not a common or agreed-upon title for pharmacists.

The things we do to inflate our egos...

East Asian languages though differentiate between a doctorate-holder (M.D., Ph.D., J.D., PharmD) and a "doctor" (isha or yisheng = medical doctor, dentist, vet, barefoot doctors). But East Asian languages DO NOT call pharmacists isha or yisheng; if they are doctorate-trained, then they are given the doctorate title. Problem with English is that the two uses are combined. But even in the combined English usage I still do not see doctorate-trained pharmacists in the same sense of a "doctor" as an MD, vet or dentist. This has nothing to do with social position (for example, yisheng in China have pretty low social position).

 

[Jonassen]

could it just be that all the others you mentioned, eg, dentists, chiropractors, vets PHYSICALLY work on a human//animal, whereas pharmacists dont get involved in that physical sense? just a thought...

No, it has something to do with medical diagnosis. Historically, doctors diagnosed and pharmacists prescribed. This is why traditionally nurses, pharmacists and even surgeons were not called doctors; as the former three acted upon the diagnosis of the doctor, and conducted no diagnosis of their own. Surgeons in the UK are still titled Misters, and the surgeons there are very proud of this.

I don't see why the pharmacists here are so sensitive about it. If you are good, you are good, you don't need a title. I would much rather be a surgeon and called Mr. in the UK, than be a dentist and called Dr.

It is my opinion that since pharmacists cannot diagnose, they should not be called doctors, to avoid confusing patients in a health care setting.

 

[Glowwyrm]

The things we do to inflate our egos...

The pharmacists I know (granted I don't know a ton of them) seem to prefer to all be addressed by their first names. I won't care if they call me Dr., Mrs., or Hey You....just as long as they spell my name right on my check.

 

[babietuan323]

they call one of my pharmacists, dr. M at my workplace

he prescribes his own medication, C2s

 

[ProZackMI]

Not all people with doctorate degrees can call themselves doctors. English is not a logical language (no natural language is). As mentioned earlier by others, juris doctors (lawyers) do not call themselves doctors.

Not all people with doctorates CAN call themselves doctor? Grammatical flaws aside, this statement is just plain incorrect. First off, anyone CAN call HIM or HERself doctor even without earning the degree. There are heaps of frauds out there who bought a piece of paper with the word DOCTOR on it from some Diploma Mill University on the Internet. There was a scandal a few years ago where an exec at the US Dept. of Homeland Security (don't you feel safe now?) represented herself as Dr. So-and-so and stated she had an earned PhD in CIS. It turns out that here PhD, master's, and even BS were all...BS...purchased online for a few thousand bucks. She got the degrees (suitable for framing, you know), some transcripts, and even a class ring! Ain't that cool? No classes. No serious thesis. No dissertation committees, rewrites, oral defense. No residencies. No bar exams. No exams. Just pay and get. WOW!

Second, anyone who has earned a doctorate, whether it's an academic doctorate like a PhD, or a clinical one like the PharmD, JD, MD, etc., can call himself or herself doctor, or be referred to as doctor.

HOWEVER, many who hold a doctorate choose NOT to invoke the title it bestows due to custom, practice, or personal choice. In the health care arena, you bet any D (PharmD, DVM, OD, DDS, DNP, DPT) is gonna use the title. More money. More prestige. More respect. More credibility. Ego inflation.

In academia, PhD is the gold standard, so the title is used. In education, the EdD and PhD denotes higher learning and more training than an MA or MS, so the title is used.

Outside academia and the medical fields, those with doctorates often don't use the title as it can be pretentious. Can a PhD in English or a JD call himself doctor? Yes. Is he a doctor? YES. Should he ask to be called doctor? Personal choice.

In law, it's not custom or practice for lawyers to go around puffing themselves up with inflated titles. I mean, no self-respecting attorney would inflate his ego by appending an inflated title right? (ESQUIRE!!!). I mean, only a lawyer would invoke a title of nobility and use that in lieu of an earned acadmic title!

So, your statement is incorrect....some with a doctorate choose not to use the title. Others, by virtue of their profession's custom and practice don't use it. There are many US JDs who use the title doctor in academic settings. Same with many other doctorate holders.

 

[Da Alchemist]

Not all people with doctorate degrees can call themselves doctors. English is not a logical language (no natural language is). As mentioned earlier by others, juris doctors (lawyers) do not call themselves doctors..

you dont make sense at all. Ur opinions are invalid. first of all lawyers shouldnt be mentioned in this forum or a computer science with doctorate degree...they are not in the health field. but if they earned their doctorate degree then they are welcomed to use the title "dr". doctor came from latin word to teach. not to diagnose. the meaning to teach probably means to counsel, or to counsel patients which a pharmacist do. By the way how can u sign up in this forum "student doctor network" if u disagree that a pharmD should be called "doctor" look above ur screen it should show all the doctorate programs in the health field.

 

[lee139]

pharmacists do use the title dr.
My badge at walgreens states
Dr. XXXX, PharmD
Often patients treat me with more respect and they are willing to wait longer (b/c they wait so long in the doctor's office).....
Finally many do not know what a "PharmD" is and often think I am a Pharmacist and MD. so we just need to educate more people about our degree

Your badge is a bit redundant. Doctor XXXX, Doctor of Pharmacy gets a little repetitive....

XXXX, PharmD should be sufficient. Or perhaps just Dr. XXXX

 

[realysa]

hey you pill pushers,

it's all historical. the ******ed point about why jd lawyers are not called doctors is because the jd equivalent was the llb (bachelors of legal letters) not too long ago.

pharmacy just followed the lead of law by creating a doctoral degree to get more respect from the public.

that's why the public doesn't call pharmacists nor lawyers doctors. give it another 50 years people start calling you doctors.

as a future dentist, i wonder why you pharmacists don't think we practice medicine, albeit dental medicine. if this is the case, why do you fill our Rx's? because we're doctors and you're registered pharmacists.

 

[Spyris]

Your badge is a bit redundant. Doctor XXXX, Doctor of Pharmacy gets a little repetitive....

XXXX, PharmD should be sufficient. Or perhaps just Dr. XXXX

Interesting. I've see Dr. xxxx, M.D. before

 

[GatorRxGirl]

we're doctors and you're registered pharmacists.

This is probably one of the most a** hole things I've ever read on here. As a future health care professional, you of all people should be more respective than that. Who would want to go to anyone that thinks they're so much better than anyone. Grow up and get over yourself.

 

[lee139]

Interesting. I've see Dr. xxxx, M.D. before

Yep, that is also redundant. Again, either: xxxx, M.D. or Dr. xxxx should be sufficient.

 

[sdn1977]

This is probably one of the most a** hole things I've ever read on here. As a future health care professional, you of all people should be more respective than that. Who would want to go to anyone that thinks they're so much better than anyone. Grow up and get over yourself.

Now, everybody...get back to work!

 

[rxforlife2004]

hey you pill pushers,

it's all historical. the ******ed point about why jd lawyers are not called doctors is because the jd equivalent was the llb (bachelors of legal letters) not too long ago.

pharmacy just followed the lead of law by creating a doctoral degree to get more respect from the public.

that's why the public doesn't call pharmacists nor lawyers doctors. give it another 50 years people start calling you doctors.

as a future dentist, i wonder why you pharmacists don't think we practice medicine, albeit dental medicine. if this is the case, why do you fill our Rx's? because we're doctors and you're registered pharmacists.

Please...give me a break. What kind of attitude is that, teeth puller?
You ain't no doctor. Do you think you have enough clinical knowledge to treat patients? How about let me give u this case, very simple one and see if you can answer the questions:

Cosmo Kramer is a 55 yo obese African-American male who presents to the internal medicine clinic for some non-specific headaches that have occurred for the past month. Mr. Kramer describes the headaches as pulsating and throbbing. He states that he tried Motrin and Tylenol without relief. His headache is not alleviated by resting. Mr. Kramer also states that the headache was similar to 6 years ago when he was diagnosed with HTN. He took some medications for 2 years then discontinued because he did not think he needed it anymore.Father had HTN and died of a MI at age of 54
Mother had DM, HTN and died of a stroke at age of 68. Gen
Patient is an obese man who appears to be in no acute distress.
VS
BP standing 174/102 (left arm), 178/104 (right arm), P 82, RR 13, T 37.2 C
Ht 5’9”, Wt 108 kg
HEENT
Funduscopic exam reveals mild arterial narrowing, and no exudates or hemorrhages
Urinanalysis showed 2+ protein;
Other exams WNL
Lab
TC 250
142 109 30 LDL 190
95 HDL 35
4.0 26 1.7 TG 125

EKG mild LVH
SH: EtOH: 1 glass of beer daily
Tobacco: 1 ppd x 35 years


1. Does he have HTN? At what stage?
2. Does Mr. Kramer have any target organ damages? If so, what are they?3
3. Please recommend a therapeutic plan for Mr. Kramer, include any lifestyle changes and/or any drugs (drug name, dose, route, frequency)

Now Dr. Teeth Puller, can u come up with the right answers for #1,2,3? I bet you any 3rd year pharmacy student would be able to answer at least #1,2. So now u claim yourself doctor, what would u do?

 

[realysa]

has any bs pharm or pharmd created any drug of any significance?
why are md and phd on the forefront of pharmacology and not pharmd?

you guys specialize in drugs, but no one in your field has created anything notable. i suspect the average medical and dental student did better in gen chem, orgo, and biochem than the average pharmacy student. don't dispute this because if you had done better, you'd probably be in med school.

by the way, in which aisle are the tampons?

 

[ZpackSux]

has any bs pharm or pharmd created any drug of any significance?
why are md and phd on the forefront of pharmacology and not pharmd?

you guys specialize in drugs, but no one in your field has created anything notable. i suspect the average medical and dental student did better in gen chem, orgo, and biochem than the average pharmacy student. don't dispute this because if you had done better, you'd probably be in med school.

by the way, in which aisle are the tampons?

STFU... it was a pharmacist who invented Coca Cola... which rotted all the teeth.. and that why you'll have a job.

And what drug have you invented... and why aren't you in Med School???

 

[realysa]

i took pathophys with medical students at a top ten ivy league med school. as a matter of fact, we had the same lectures for the first two years.

what about you? did you take pharmacology and other med courses with the LPN students at souther nevada university?

don't blame me the next time you try to consult with a physician, dentist, or podiatrist on a RX and we tell to shut the **** up and just fill it along with a bag of cheetos.

 

[ZpackSux]

i took pathophys with medical students at a top ten ivy league med school. as a matter of fact, we had the same lectures for the first two years.

what about you? did you take pharmacology and other med courses with the LPN students at souther nevada university?

don't blame me the next time you try to consult with a physician, dentist, or podiatrist on a RX and we tell to shut the **** up and just fill it along with a bag of cheetos.

Actually I lectured at both medical school and dental school.. and bright eyed med students and many dumb Fuc* dental students had to call me Dr. ZpackSux...

And why aren't you in med school?

 

[ZpackSux]

by the way... can you clean my teeth?? You accept cash or credit card??

 

[ZpackSux]

well... i have utmost respect for dentists...and what they do. In fact I have many friends and family who are dentists.. But it sux for them to look into people's mouth all day long. More power to you. Funny.. no one is as obnoxious as you....and have nothing to prove.

you must have a very small unit...

Welcome to the pharmacy board Napoleon...

 

[ZpackSux]

i took pathophys with medical students at a top ten ivy league med school. as a matter of fact, we had the same lectures for the first two years.

Translation: I took some classes with med students..and since I couldn't get into med school...but because I took classes with them, I think I can say..I can be just as smart as a med student..even though I really coudln't get in...

 

[ZpackSux]

don't blame me the next time you try to consult with a physician, dentist, or podiatrist on a RX and we tell to shut the **** up and just fill it along with a bag of cheetos.

Actually I won't blame you. Infrequent Dental consult at the hospital only results and vicodin and amox orders for patients.. and dentists are minimally involved in hospital ops. Funny, when I inservice physicians and also lead the P&T committee meeting deciding on drugs... physicians are usually very quiet...

And you'll soon learn that "maturity" as a healthcare professional can help your career... this also includes having respect for others in healthcare.

 

[rxforlife2004]

has any bs pharm or pharmd created any drug of any significance?
why are md and phd on the forefront of pharmacology and not pharmd?

you guys specialize in drugs, but no one in your field has created anything notable. i suspect the average medical and dental student did better in gen chem, orgo, and biochem than the average pharmacy student. don't dispute this because if you had done better, you'd probably be in med school.

by the way, in which aisle are the tampons?

You still haven't figured out the answers yet huh? The "Clueless wanna_be_dentist". Next teeth, please! Next! And uh, "Do you wanna bleach your teeth? We have special prices for you now: 9.99/teeth". Happy now?

 

[ZpackSux]

Please...give me a break. What kind of attitude is that, teeth puller?
You ain't no doctor. Do you think you have enough clinical knowledge to treat patients? How about let me give u this case, very simple one and see if you can answer the questions:

Cosmo Kramer is a 55 yo obese African-American male who presents to the internal medicine clinic for some non-specific headaches that have occurred for the past month. Mr. Kramer describes the headaches as pulsating and throbbing. He states that he tried Motrin and Tylenol without relief. His headache is not alleviated by resting. Mr. Kramer also states that the headache was similar to 6 years ago when he was diagnosed with HTN. He took some medications for 2 years then discontinued because he did not think he needed it anymore.Father had HTN and died of a MI at age of 54
Mother had DM, HTN and died of a stroke at age of 68. Gen
Patient is an obese man who appears to be in no acute distress.
VS
BP standing 174/102 (left arm), 178/104 (right arm), P 82, RR 13, T 37.2 C
Ht 5'9", Wt 108 kg
HEENT
Funduscopic exam reveals mild arterial narrowing, and no exudates or hemorrhages
Urinanalysis showed 2+ protein;
Other exams WNL
Lab
TC 250
142 109 30 LDL 190
95 HDL 35
4.0 26 1.7 TG 125

EKG mild LVH
SH: EtOH: 1 glass of beer daily
Tobacco: 1 ppd x 35 years


1. Does he have HTN? At what stage?
2. Does Mr. Kramer have any target organ damages? If so, what are they?3
3. Please recommend a therapeutic plan for Mr. Kramer, include any lifestyle changes and/or any drugs (drug name, dose, route, frequency)

Now Dr. Teeth Puller, can u come up with the right answers for #1,2,3? I bet you any 3rd year pharmacy student would be able to answer at least #1,2. So now u claim yourself doctor, what would u do?

Heck..I don't know what stage. but.

1. Yes.
2. Renal Damage
3. Beta Blocker with Diuretic or ACE Inhibitor

Lose the weight and quit smoking.

 

[realysa]

Translation: I took some classes with med students..and since I couldn't get into med school...but because I took classes with them, I think I can say..I can be just as smart as a med student..even though I really coudln't get in...

where did you lecture? did you lecture on the mechanism of aspirin? i am sure the nursing school that you lectured at wouldn't even let you lecture on anything that requires a RX (too complicated for a pharmD). i don't remember any pharmacists who lectured to us. they were all md or phd in pharmacology.

btw, having taken the same classes as the med students does say a lot. i don't claim we dental students were anywhere near the top. med students are definitely the top dogs of healthcare.

basically, your profession does what we say. if i want something prescribed and you don't do it, then you're out of a job. unless , you're good at selling hydroxycut and hallmark greeting cards. i heard the profit margin on these items approach that of viagra.

 

[realysa]

You still haven't figured out the answers yet huh? The "Clueless wanna_be_dentist". Next teeth, please! Next! And uh, "Do you wanna bleach your teeth? We have special prices for you now: 9.99/teeth". Happy now?

hey i regularly treat med compromised pts in clinic. do you? i know you treat customers who complain about the copayment.

 

[genesis09]

My physiology/pathophysiology was taught mostly by college of medicine faculty.
My dentist told me he pretty much has only prescribed pain killers and antibiotics. He, in his entire career, had to write one prescription for valium because the patient was super anxious when going to the dentist. I've talk to other doctors, and they all have said that their knowledge of drugs is very limited. They welcome the input pharmacists add. I've talk to the medical students here, and they have said the pharmacist had saved them many times. The dirty, often not spoke about fact in healthcare is that doctors are not drug experts.

You also forgot that Pepsi was invented by a pharmacist.

 

[realysa]

Actually I won't blame you. Infrequent Dental consult at the hospital only results and vicodin and amox orders for patients.. and dentists are minimally involved in hospital ops. Funny, when I inservice physicians and also lead the P&T committee meeting deciding on drugs... physicians are usually very quiet...

And you'll soon learn that "maturity" as a healthcare professional can help your career... this also includes having respect for others in healthcare.

we do well financially in private prac not in hospitals. i hope to just prescribe antibiotics and analgesics.

btw, md's discover efficasious doses, not pharmD's. you guys just follow orders. if the ada says rx viagra for cavities, then pharms fill it like a b***h

 

[sdn1977]

i took pathophys with medical students at a top ten ivy league med school. as a matter of fact, we had the same lectures for the first two years.

what about you? did you take pharmacology and other med courses with the LPN students at souther nevada university?

don't blame me the next time you try to consult with a physician, dentist, or podiatrist on a RX and we tell to shut the **** up and just fill it along with a bag of cheetos.

I'm going to blame your youth & inexperience for your extreme unprofessional internet behavior here......however...I must interject!

Yesterday....I not only called 2 dentists & had them change the drug & dose on pts who in the first instance he didn't check the allergy (ordered amox in a pcn allergic pt who as went into a coma @ age 13 after pcn - enuf said here!) & a dose which is completely impossible - clindamycin 500mg - DDS said she was thinking erythro....my bad! I also had to call a dentist to clarify an OTC instruction to a mom for a child for ibuprofen - the dentist wrote out a dose which would have been appropriate for an adult - not this 9 yo.

Now...you can talk all you want about how many lectures you attended with medical students. Well...so did I - I spent 2 years attending lectures with medical & dental students - a full 2 years of histology, biochem, anatomy, physiology, etc...AND I go to bed with a dentist every night (who I met in a class....but off the subject here...)

I know fully what a dentist knows & what he doesn't know (at least the one I sleep with & his colleagues - that's usually all they talk about during social events!) So.....he has great respect for me (we're speaking now of my professional abilities.... ) as I do for him & his colleagues.

So.....keep your insults to yourself. They only diminish you! Learn to respect fellow health professionals - you'll get along better in the long run & who knows...we might save your a** one day!

Oh...you might want to take a peek on the anesthesia forum - they have a very lively discussion about dentists & concious sedation due to a recent death of a 5yo in a dentist office. The dentist apparantly did not have enough knowledge of the kinetics of the drugs to realize when they would all kick in & cause apnea...then the dentis couldn't tube, etc.. Dentists - all by themselves were the reason why a tremendously effective narcotic was pulled from the market in the 1980's - because they did not know their limits. Your malpractice goes waaaaay up when you use concious sedation without an MD or CRNA present & if you use N2O....you still pay lots and lots. I know - I see the premiums. So...have some respect for those of us who do know the drugs & the best practioner knows what he/she doesn't know. You apparently still think you know everything.....

Now...get off your high horse, do your job & we'll do ours! I'm a PharmD & I don't give a rats a** what folks call me - they are just very grateful when I fix the problem their "Dr" they just spent most of the afternoon with has caused!

 

[realysa]

My physiology/pathophysiology was taught mostly by college of medicine faculty.
My dentist told me he pretty much has only prescribed pain killers and antibiotics. He, in his entire career, had to write one prescription for valium because the patient was super anxious when going to the dentist. I've talk to other doctors, and they all have said that their knowledge of drugs is very limited. They welcome the input pharmacists add. I've talk to the medical students here, and they have said the pharmacist had saved them many times. The dirty, often not spoke about fact in healthcare is that doctors are not drug experts.

You also forgot that Pepsi was invented by a pharmacist.

with the med students? if not, then watered down classes

 

[ZpackSux]

if i want something prescribed and you don't do it, then you're out of a job.

mmm... come again? You want us to prescribe?? Oh my highness.. will you ever grant us prescribing authority?? You're so generous!!! Ok OK...I'll prescribe Amox and Vicodin on all of your patients...so I won't be out of a job!!

 

[realysa]

I'm going to blame your youth & inexperience for your extreme unprofessional internet behavior here......however...I must interject!

Yesterday....I not only called 2 dentists & had them change the drug & dose on pts who in the first instance he didn't check the allergy (ordered amox in a pcn allergic pt who as went into a coma @ age 13 after pcn - enuf said here!) & a dose which is completely impossible - clindamycin 500mg - DDS said she was thinking erythro....my bad! I also had to call a dentist to clarify an OTC instruction to a mom for a child for ibuprofen - the dentist wrote out a dose which would have been appropriate for an adult - not this 9 yo.

Now...you can talk all you want about how many lectures you attended with medical students. Well...so did I - I spent 2 years attending lectures with medical & dental students - a full 2 years of histology, biochem, anatomy, physiology, etc...AND I go to bed with a dentist every night (who I met in a class....but off the subject here...)

I know fully what a dentist knows & what he doesn't know (at least the one I sleep with & his colleagues - that's usually all they talk about during social events!) So.....he has great respect for me (we're speaking now of my professional abilities.... ) as I do for him & his colleagues.

So.....keep your insults to yourself. They only diminish you! Learn to respect fellow health professionals - you'll get along better in the long run & who knows...we might save your a** one day!

Oh...you might want to take a peek on the anesthesia forum - they have a very lively discussion about dentists & concious sedation due to a recent death of a 5yo in a dentist office. The dentist apparantly did not have enough knowledge of the kinetics of the drugs to realize when they would all kick in & cause apnea...then the dentis couldn't tube, etc.. Dentists - all by themselves were the reason why a tremendously effective narcotic was pulled from the market in the 1980's - because they did not know their limits. Your malpractice goes waaaaay up when you use concious sedation without an MD or CRNA present & if you use N2O....you still pay lots and lots. I know - I see the premiums. So...have some respect for those of us who do know the drugs & the best practioner knows what he/she doesn't know. You apparently still think you know everything.....

Now...get off your high horse, do your job & we'll do ours! I'm a PharmD & I don't give a rats a** what folks call me - they are just very grateful when I fix the problem their "Dr" they just spent most of the afternoon with has caused!

anecdotal, can do better. once i had pharm give me trojans, when i specifically asked for magnums

 

[realysa]

I'm going to blame your youth & inexperience for your extreme unprofessional internet behavior here......however...I must interject!

Yesterday....I not only called 2 dentists & had them change the drug & dose on pts who in the first instance he didn't check the allergy (ordered amox in a pcn allergic pt who as went into a coma @ age 13 after pcn - enuf said here!) & a dose which is completely impossible - clindamycin 500mg - DDS said she was thinking erythro....my bad! I also had to call a dentist to clarify an OTC instruction to a mom for a child for ibuprofen - the dentist wrote out a dose which would have been appropriate for an adult - not this 9 yo.

Now...you can talk all you want about how many lectures you attended with medical students. Well...so did I - I spent 2 years attending lectures with medical & dental students - a full 2 years of histology, biochem, anatomy, physiology, etc...AND I go to bed with a dentist every night (who I met in a class....but off the subject here...)

I know fully what a dentist knows & what he doesn't know (at least the one I sleep with & his colleagues - that's usually all they talk about during social events!) So.....he has great respect for me (we're speaking now of my professional abilities.... ) as I do for him & his colleagues.

So.....keep your insults to yourself. They only diminish you! Learn to respect fellow health professionals - you'll get along better in the long run & who knows...we might save your a** one day!

Oh...you might want to take a peek on the anesthesia forum - they have a very lively discussion about dentists & concious sedation due to a recent death of a 5yo in a dentist office. The dentist apparantly did not have enough knowledge of the kinetics of the drugs to realize when they would all kick in & cause apnea...then the dentis couldn't tube, etc.. Dentists - all by themselves were the reason why a tremendously effective narcotic was pulled from the market in the 1980's - because they did not know their limits. Your malpractice goes waaaaay up when you use concious sedation without an MD or CRNA present & if you use N2O....you still pay lots and lots. I know - I see the premiums. So...have some respect for those of us who do know the drugs & the best practioner knows what he/she doesn't know. You apparently still think you know everything.....

Now...get off your high horse, do your job & we'll do ours! I'm a PharmD & I don't give a rats a** what folks call me - they are just very grateful when I fix the problem their "Dr" they just spent most of the afternoon with has caused!

you suggest, you don't have scope to treat.