DO vs Carib from a Carib student

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***I will not respond to jaggers posts anymore on the grounds as him being an illogical dumbbasz premed...that has no real idea about what medschool really is.

God here we go again. Personally I have no comment for the subject of this thread as it seems to just be a pissing contest with a bunch of hearsay evidence.

I CANNOT get over the fact that people think they automatically know more or have a better understanding of things in medical education or life for that matter just because they are further along the process.

I don't mean to pick on you NRAI2001 as I think there have been a lot of senseless claims against you in this thread. I just wanted to make a point that people need to stop judging the relevance of people's comments on this site by the status next to their username.

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I just wanted to make a point that people need to stop judging the relevance of people's comments on this site by the status next to their username.

In principle, I agree with you. Each argument should definitely be evaluated based on merit and strength of evidence presented, not automatically accepted or rejected based on how far along they are in the process. I don't like it when status is used to validate an otherwise invalid argument, or to deliberately attempt to make a valid argument seem less valid. That's idiotic.

However, that being said, it's also true that a student that is further along will know more about certain subjects, based on experience, and this should be respected. It would be a bit foolish to presume that the student who has never been to medical school, for example, to have the same depth of knowledge about what goes on there, than someone who is in the thick of it. This doesn't make the less-experienced student's argument redundant, or the more experienced student's comment more correct or apropos, but I do tend to view them in context. I mean, if I go around spouting stuff "I know" about residency and what it is like, particularly in direct contrast to someone who is going through it right now, I would probably roll my eyes at myself a bit. Even if what I was saying were true, it wouldn't have the same impact, because it would be second-hand information, for the most part.

Anyway, I have been on both sides of this. There are times where I feel like I say stuff that is beyond my level to talk about and get bopped on the head for doing so, and there are times where I do the bopping. Somehow this sort of thing is built into medicine. Medicine has got it's own linear hierarchy and it's pretty old-school about it. This is something that students begin to get a feel for when they begin medical school and it becomes more evident when the clinical portion of the training begins. I'm still learning about it and getting used to navigating through it.
 
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God here we go again. Personally I have no comment for the subject of this thread as it seems to just be a pissing contest with a bunch of hearsay evidence.

I CANNOT get over the fact that people think they automatically know more or have a better understanding of things in medical education or life for that matter just because they are further along the process.

I don't mean to pick on you NRAI2001 as I think there have been a lot of senseless claims against you in this thread.
I just wanted to make a point that people need to stop judging the relevance of people's comments on this site by the status next to their username.

Thank you...

Those of you saying that I have made any false claims please elaborate on which of my claims which basically boils down to:

1)DOs have the advantage of the DO match
2) and outside of this their residency and rotation placement is very similar to SGUs allopathic placements.
3) SGU has a minimal attrition and USMLE fail rate..(looking for the link now)
 
http://www.sgu.edu/life-at-sgu/student-faqs.html

"According to surveys of our graduates, 99% of our U.S. eligible graduates obtain residencies, generally their first or second choice..."

Avgs: http://www.sgu.edu/life-at-sgu/student-faqs.html GPA: 3.34 MCAT: bio 10, verbal 9, phy 9.

Avg pass rate over last 15 years: 84.4% (over 8 years its over 90%; and even greater the last few years) http://books.google.com/books?id=NU...um=10#v=onepage&q=sgu usmle pass rate&f=false

Our attrition rate in the first two years is generally 1-2% for personal reasons and 3-5% for academic reasons. The attrition rate in the final two years is almost negligible.
 
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people need to get over this topic. a doctor is a doctor is a doctor. just comes down to personal preference.

you can only imagine what the top 10 MD med school students are thinking of this bickering..
 
This subject has always been a sore one for both sides. Really, there's no good answer on which is "better" because there is some subjectivity in that statement. My suggestion is to do your own research, digging up the actual facts and work from there.

SGU is considered one of the best Caribbean-based medical schools and while I haven't seen the facts, I wouldn't surprise me if they have better success rates and lower attrition than other, less well-established Caribbean-based schools. Still, I bet their attrition rates are higher than any US-based medical school and I am thinking their class sizes are larger as well. I would love to see data from a more objective source (rather than SGU itself) on attrition rates, 1st time board passing rates, average board scores on first attempt, and match list of students on their first go around. These things would be more telling. Nevertheless, if I were to go to a Caribbean school, I'd look toward SGU, though, given it's relative status among the other Caribbean schools.

However, we aren't just talking about SGU. We are talking about Caribbean medical schools in general, many of which are definitely inferior to SGU. Let the buyer beware. Going off-shore for school is definitely going to have it's disadvantages, which should be rather obvious. It seems likely that some will deal with this aspect better than others. Whatever it is now, it seems to me that Caribbean-based schools were designed as a cottage industry, catering to those who could not, for whatever reason, gain admission to a US-based school. I can't verify this information, because I've obviously never attended a Caribbean-based school, but I've heard that many of these schools expect higher attrition, because they typically take a lot more students, taking a gamble on many of them, on the onset, and allow the process to weed out the ones who can't make it. The academic environment, from accounts I've heard, can be a bit tough, because of that. If you make it past the critical points, though, I bet success (whatever that means for each person) is a reasonable expectation.

USDO schools are not perfect, either. They have, in general, their own issues, too. Stick around here and you'll see what I mean. However, if you give me a choice between USDO and Caribbean, it's an easy one for me and I think most people, depending on the relative importance of earning an MD, rather than a DO, and the acceptability of spending time learning OMT.

I guess I'll conclude by saying that I will judge the clinician based on their ability and not where they chose to attend school. If a given school works out for you, then more power to you. Regardless, make sure you do the research and make an informed decision.
 
This subject has always been a sore one for both sides. Really, there's no good answer on which is "better" because there is some subjectivity in that statement. My suggestion is to do your own research, digging up the actual facts and work from there.

SGU is considered one of the best Caribbean-based medical schools and while I haven't seen the facts, I wouldn't surprise me if they have better success rates and lower attrition than other, less well-established Caribbean-based schools. Still, I bet their attrition rates are higher than any US-based medical school and I am thinking their class sizes are larger as well. I would love to see data from a more objective source (rather than SGU itself) on attrition rates, 1st time board passing rates, average board scores on first attempt, and match list of students on their first go around. These things would be more telling. Nevertheless, if I were to go to a Caribbean school, I'd look toward SGU, though, given it's relative status among the other Caribbean schools.

However, we aren't just talking about SGU. We are talking about Caribbean medical schools in general, many of which are definitely inferior to SGU. Let the buyer beware. Going off-shore for school is definitely going to have it's disadvantages, which should be rather obvious. It seems likely that some will deal with this aspect better than others. Whatever it is now, it seems to me that Caribbean-based schools were designed as a cottage industry, catering to those who could not, for whatever reason, gain admission to a US-based school. I can't verify this information, because I've obviously never attended a Caribbean-based school, but I've heard that many of these schools expect higher attrition, because they typically take a lot more students, taking a gamble on many of them, on the onset, and allow the process to weed out the ones who can't make it. The academic environment, from accounts I've heard, can be a bit tough, because of that. If you make it past the critical points, though, I bet success (whatever that means for each person) is a reasonable expectation.

USDO schools are not perfect, either. They have, in general, their own issues, too. Stick around here and you'll see what I mean. However, if you give me a choice between USDO and Caribbean, it's an easy one for me and I think most people, depending on the relative importance of earning an MD, rather than a DO, and the acceptability of spending time learning OMT.

I guess I'll conclude by saying that I will judge the clinician based on their ability and not where they chose to attend school. If a given school works out for you, then more power to you. Regardless, make sure you do the research and make an informed decision.

http://books.google.com/books?id=NU...um=10#v=onepage&q=sgu usmle pass rate&f=false

This is a link to the princeton review (MCAT, SAT course) book that reviews the top 162 school...it reviews their GPA and mcat requirements as well as their STEP 1 pass rates. This link takes you directly to the pages reviewing SGU.

Its true the other carribean schools can be on the shadier side and if for whatever reason I had not been accepted to SGU I may have ended up going to CCOM.
 
Hi everyone,

I didn't read all the posts, the majority of it. OP-I'm sorry you had so many difficulties at the top 4 Carib school.

I'm going to post on my experience in the Carib and hopefully y'all will learn from me too. I'm not here to boost the Carib...I'd like to see the day when US and especially CDN med-schools open up more seats and ALL Carib schools shut down.

I am a CDN, MCAT 36S, USMLE Step 1 246/99 USMLE Step 2 257/99. Undergrad GPA 3.71. These are honest scores. Carib GPA 3.9, graduated as dean of my clinical science and basic science class. Here is the rule with the Carib, everyone may go in, but not everyone comes out. My ultimate mistake was applying to my hometown medschool in Canada and not applying to more. I was pretty darn arrogant and was sure I'd get in, STUPID! Anyhow, that's all the past, I say this b/c I have dealt with a lot of stigma. The reason why I didn't reapply to Canada was b/c I didn't come from a rich family and if I took that year off, I would have to work FULL time at my waiter job, that I worked all during undergrad to live/rent/food, etc. I wouldn't have filled my application up with anything more. My rich friends applied 3 more times than I. My friend got in during my 3rd yr of medschool and he took his parents money and travelled and went on missions...That all cost money. I really still don't know what the solution is.

Looking back, I don't think the Carib was my last resort. As a CDN, I should have applied to US medschools (y'all have like 125, we have like 10 english speaking ones) and then I should have applied to D.O, I don't think we have D.O.'s in Canada. I had a roomate in my 2nd semester who completely flunked out. She went onto become an NP and is like acing her courses (as I see on FB)...anyhow, I never had a problem with studying. I studied everyday, like I did in undergrad and I continuously reviewed everyday. I can't relate with the OP, I had my studying skills in tact. I think if you have trouble studying and you're going to the Carib it's not like it's easier, they will weed you out, so that you don't screw their school name over, no compassion, no mercy.

I personally think most Caribs dont make it through b/c they're weak applicants to start with. The CDN's in my class ~60-65% b/c our admission rates are lower than US and those who went to the IV league US schools, Berkley, Harvard, etc, were the ones that were in the top of my class and brought on the competition...

If you're a weak student to start with, going to the Carib is not going to make you a doctor, you prob won't make it through... you have to work on your studying skills to make it...

I hear from my friends that during and after residency, no one cares where you went to medschool as long as you're a good doctor...what is a good doctor? compassionate...be kind folks, this board tends to rip out caribs and chew them out...

My husbands PD the other day said in front of me, verbatim, we consider DO's and Carib grads (from my school) to be on the same playing field...Not everyone will agree, I certainly don't, everyone has different opinoins...not a big deal...
 
***I will not respond to jaggers posts anymore on the grounds as him being an illogical dumbbasz premed...that has no real idea about what medschool really is.

HAHAHAHA ... yeah, for sure. If only I had the maturity and wit of a high caliber med student - such as yourself. You should have just saved time and said I was right, apologized, and lurked over to valuemd to feel better about your choice. Be more subtle next time - like an over-sized, orange T-shirt which reads 'I'M SO HAPPY AND DO NOT REGRET AT ALL MY DECISION TO STUDY MEDICINE IN THE CARIBBEAN.'

Good luck matching. Bump this thread is a few years and tell us how it goes.
 
My husbands PD the other day said in front of me, verbatim, we consider DO's and Carib grads (from my school) to be on the same playing field...QUOTE]


speechless....
 
1. We're not bashing him. He bumped a 6 month thread to tell us how happy he was and how awesome the Caribbean is. What do you expect??

2. Don't trust SGU stats. ,If they have similar stats to DO schools why is the attrition rate so high? Why is board pass rate so low? Why is ACGME match rate lower than DO??? They are notorious for bending facts (ie releasing match lists of only matched students despite it taking certain students multiple years, holding people back from taking boards etc).

Jagger you re kinda speechless regarding your claims abut the board pass rates?? This is an outside source directly disproving your idiotic statement regarding carribean schools having such low board scores??...quick run back to your premed club.

http://books.google.com/books?id=NU...um=10#v=onepage&q=sgu usmle pass rate&f=false

And to the rest of all the people stating the carribean pass rates to be "around 40%"...any replies?
 
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Did you forget your post above? Everyone, stop throwing insult around or this thread will be closed.

What did my post say?? Tell me exactly what I said that was so wrong?...regardless people should back up their comments with proof.
 
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Hi everyone,

I didn't read all the posts, the majority of it. OP-I'm sorry you had so many difficulties at the top 4 Carib school.

I'm going to post on my experience in the Carib and hopefully y'all will learn from me too. I'm not here to boost the Carib...I'd like to see the day when US and especially CDN med-schools open up more seats and ALL Carib schools shut down.

I am a CDN, MCAT 36S, USMLE Step 1 246/99 USMLE Step 2 257/99. Undergrad GPA 3.71. These are honest scores. Carib GPA 3.9, graduated as dean of my clinical science and basic science class. Here is the rule with the Carib, everyone may go in, but not everyone comes out. My ultimate mistake was applying to my hometown medschool in Canada and not applying to more. I was pretty darn arrogant and was sure I'd get in, STUPID! Anyhow, that's all the past, I say this b/c I have dealt with a lot of stigma. The reason why I didn't reapply to Canada was b/c I didn't come from a rich family and if I took that year off, I would have to work FULL time at my waiter job, that I worked all during undergrad to live/rent/food, etc. I wouldn't have filled my application up with anything more. My rich friends applied 3 more times than I. My friend got in during my 3rd yr of medschool and he took his parents money and travelled and went on missions...That all cost money. I really still don't know what the solution is.

Looking back, I don't think the Carib was my last resort. As a CDN, I should have applied to US medschools (y'all have like 125, we have like 10 english speaking ones) and then I should have applied to D.O, I don't think we have D.O.'s in Canada. I had a roomate in my 2nd semester who completely flunked out. She went onto become an NP and is like acing her courses (as I see on FB)...anyhow, I never had a problem with studying. I studied everyday, like I did in undergrad and I continuously reviewed everyday. I can't relate with the OP, I had my studying skills in tact. I think if you have trouble studying and you're going to the Carib it's not like it's easier, they will weed you out, so that you don't screw their school name over, no compassion, no mercy.

I personally think most Caribs dont make it through b/c they're weak applicants to start with. The CDN's in my class ~60-65% b/c our admission rates are lower than US and those who went to the IV league US schools, Berkley, Harvard, etc, were the ones that were in the top of my class and brought on the competition...

If you're a weak student to start with, going to the Carib is not going to make you a doctor, you prob won't make it through... you have to work on your studying skills to make it...

I hear from my friends that during and after residency, no one cares where you went to medschool as long as you're a good doctor...what is a good doctor? compassionate...be kind folks, this board tends to rip out caribs and chew them out...

My husbands PD the other day said in front of me, verbatim, we consider DO's and Carib grads (from my school) to be on the same playing field...Not everyone will agree, I certainly don't, everyone has different opinoins...not a big deal...

Thank you for your post. I really enjoyed reading it and what you wrote resonated with me. It sounds like you are doing quite well and your board scores are awesome. I find myself cheering you on and wish you continued success.

I think it's stupid to judge someone based on what school they went to (sometimes I do judge the school, though). There's lots of reasons why someone will end up choosing the school that they ultimately attend. A school doesn't really make a person; there's good and bad at every school. To me, it seems like, success ultimately rests on how you use what you are given and what is in front of you. I think it's all about the work you put in, the quality of care you give your patients and your ownership of them, and the impressions you make along the way. I mean, if you are good, who the heck cares what school you came from?
 
Hi everyone,

I have seen a lot of posts on this forum. IMHO, it seems to come across as US IMG vs. US AMG. I'm posting this to ask everyone to stop this silly maddness...

We're not fighting against each other, at the end of the day we are all on the same team, that being the pts.

Yes, there are doctors out there that go to better medical schools than others. My husband is in a residency program with a guy that went to HMS as well as one who went to a DO school, HMS is one heck of a smart guy and DO is one heck of a fun guy. I am biased, my husband is smart and fun as well (haha, this statement is a joke, smile :)). They work together, no problems and they are team-oriented.

I think it is well known that if someone got into a US/CDN MD or DO program they wouldn't be in the Carib right? Great, let's leave it at that.

We don't have to prove it's the Carib vs. DO or v.v or whatever that is better. I mean seriously come on y'all, focus on getting yourself in the best situation as possible that WORKS FOR YOU.

I wish everyone luck in their pursuit to become medical students and resident physcians. I'm gonna be applying tihs coming year, send me some good karma through the internet wires!

G'luck y'all,
A

P.S. Obama needs to pass some stinkin' legislation increasing the no. of seats in US/CD to match their residency numbers. Think about it if there were ~25,000 (instead of 15,000) seats in medschool to match the ~25,000 residency spots, would we NOT have off-shore schools. Maybe as future med-students and physicians this is what we could work on together. Key to my humble success has been finding common-ground with ppl that may see things at a different view-point than I, (even with the crazy ***** scrub nurses- EVIL!).

Addendum- Spicedmanna- thank you, you picked up on the essence of my post. G'luck friend/colleague/doctor.
 
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Y'all,

I just noticed this is the pre-do forum. NR, you can argue all you want, but you're in the wrong stomping grounds...what did you expect friend?

I automatically responded without checking which forum it was, I assumed it was the Carib...

Funny, g'luck again!

A:D
 
What did my post say?? Tell me exactly what I said that was so wrong?...regardless people should back up their comments with proof.

You said you weren't going to respond to my posts because I'm a *******. Remember??? You're pathetic. I could rip you apart with stats at any given time, but I seriously won't. Anyone who thinks it's hard to point out the SERIOUS negatives and risky aspects of attending a Caribbean med school ... goes to a Caribbean med school. Again ... glad that post bacc worked out for you, enjoy the third world, good luck matching (maybe they will even let you sit for the boards the first time around and you'll be one of the lucky one's who scrambles into IM the 1st time around so they'll publish your awesome accomplishments), and keep reminding us how happy you are with your decision - I know I keep forgetting.

Whenever you're ready to admit your wrong (even with the act of simply leaving in shame), I'll accept it. However, until then, maybe you shouldn't say *****ic things like 'I won't reply to you because you're a pre-med *******,' then spazz like a child the second I reply.
 
Jagger you re kinda speechless regarding your claims abut the board pass rates?? This is an outside source directly disproving your idiotic statement regarding carribean schools having such low board scores??...quick run back to your premed club.

http://books.google.com/books?id=NUFDbp_VQSYC&pg=PA202&lpg=PA202&dq=sgu+usmle+pass+rate&source=bl&ots=mqMHubp1XD&sig=GuN8-aKVgPS6hksvpj-8TUNhxRI&hl=en&ei=JoaZSvelAo_RlAec8dWqBQ&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=10#v=onepage&q=sgu%20usmle%20pass%20rate&f=false

And to the rest of all the people stating the carribean pass rates to be "around 40%"...any replies?

Oh and, ****face, as far as my 'speechless regarding my claims' (you speak like a god damn ape), what is your stance on SGU holding students back from taking the boards??? Seems like that would solve the mystery there, huh???
 
OH, OHH ... - sorry for double posting - did you really just link a book listing the best '162 medical schools' which included SGU?? HAHAHA WOW. You are seriously so super secure. Man, your proof is so solid. You should link something from wikipedia next explaining that 'SGU RULZZ.' Jesus Christ. You shouldn't represent the school. What's sad is that, as far as Caribbean schools go, SGU is the way to go (as long as you are aware of the laundry list of cons associated with an offshore education), and I've personally know intelligent, cool people who have gone there ... but the way you are representing your institution as an insecure, sniveling little baby is horrible for its image.
 
You both are coming off as quite unprofessional (have you ever considered, pts may read these posts and it reflects so poorly on the medical profession). Did y'all read my post above?...We're a team, comeon.

Moderator-Kindly, please shut down thread...
 
You both are coming off as quite unprofessional (have you ever considered, pts may read these posts and it reflects so poorly on the medical profession). Did y'all read my post above?...We're a team, comeon.

Moderator-Kindly, please shut down thread...

You're absolutely right on all accounts. I will no longer reply to this thread, I apologize if anyone was offended by my posts (with the exception of NRA), and mods - please close the thread.
 
Jagger you re kinda speechless regarding your claims abut the board pass rates?? This is an outside source directly disproving your idiotic statement regarding carribean schools having such low board scores??...quick run back to your premed club.

http://books.google.com/books?id=NU...um=10#v=onepage&q=sgu usmle pass rate&f=false

And to the rest of all the people stating the carribean pass rates to be "around 40%"...any replies?

I didn't see anyone say that the Carib pass rate was around 40%. What I saw was a lot of people say that the Carib matching rate was 40%. I said that and I stand by it 100%. It's a fact.
 
Jagger you re kinda speechless regarding your claims abut the board pass rates?? This is an outside source directly disproving your idiotic statement regarding carribean schools having such low board scores??...quick run back to your premed club.

http://books.google.com/books?id=NU...um=10#v=onepage&q=sgu usmle pass rate&f=false

And to the rest of all the people stating the carribean pass rates to be "around 40%"...any replies?

SGU has a higher average than most caribbean schools in board pass/matching. It seems to be the exception to the rule. That being said:

I think people are getting the 40% figure from the 44% of FMG's that matched in the allo match this last round (US/Non-US Citizens. 47% of US citizens matched..) Table 4 is the ticket. SGU is probably higher than this, but still...
http://www.nrmp.org/data/advancedatatables2009.pdf

IMG board pass rates are ~60% on the whole, and I don't doubt SGU is higher. (Unfortunately for caribbean schools the 60% figure includes the Israeli and European schools, who tend to hold their own). But, SGU does screen who takes it, do they not? That would undoubtedly make a huge difference on what percent of test takers pass..
http://www.usmle.org/Scores_Transcripts/performance/2008.html

Not trying to BS..and I don't think any less of Caribbean folks. But the numbers really don't lie.
 
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