DO vs. MD salaries??

[cosmo]

Just a pet peeve. I'm kind of an old fart and I think we should at least master Engrish and speling.

Actually, it should be "should have gone".

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[Beau Geste]

Actually, it should be "should have gone".

 

[JakeHarley]

Just a pet peeve. I'm kind of an old fart and I think we should at least master Engrish and speling.

Before I write, I'd like to comment that I am not just aiming this post at toofache, but at the gist his/her assertion:

I have a pet peeve. I become frustrated when people interrupt the flow of a conversation with a self-righteous insistence that we all speak (or write) with perfect grammar (or spelling)--even when the point the original speaker is making is completely clear. I enjoy sharing ideas, which is a kind of connection with others. I'd generally like to overlook these insignificant details in order to form that connection. When people interrupt with these little complaints, I feel the connection is broken, and I feel unheard.

In the case that you truly don't understand, I'd like for you to ask for clarification, not to make a judgmental statement! Would you interrupt a patient you are having difficulty understanding with "you should improve your English skills so I can understand you," or would you rather say "I am not understanding...are you saying thus and so? Ok, I see."

Another pet peeve of mine involves people make blanket statements regarding what everyone "should" do in a situation that will not affect the well-being of anyone. You will of course have whatever feelings you like about how others communicate, but what is the ultimate purpose of trying to force your values on others? To prove to everyone your own ability to follow rules?

If that's the case, we hear you. You probably wouldn't be here if you couldn't.

Take care.

Jake

 

[toofache32]

My intent was not to put anyone on the whipping-post. My intent was to point out that when professionals speak they should not sound like those who have never went to college. I'm sorry if I took away from our little internet experience here, but you can't argue that incorrect grammar is correct. These aren't my rules, and I'm not sure what this would have to do with values. It is black and white, and it's in any Junior High English textbook.

I'm just a redneck from Mississippi who knows the struggle between learning what is heard regularly (and therefore comfortable) and learning what is actually correct.

Did anyone catch my grammatical error?

 

[cosmo]

My intent was not to put anyone on the whipping-post. My intent was to point out that when professionals speak they should not sound like those who have never went to college. I'm sorry if I took away from our little internet experience here, but you can't argue that incorrect grammar is correct. These aren't my rules, and I'm not sure what this would have to do with values. It is black and white, and it's in any Junior High English textbook.

I'm just a redneck from Mississippi who knows the struggle between learning what is heard regularly (and therefore comfortable) and learning what is actually correct.

Did anyone catch my grammatical error?

Same error you had before...never GONE, not went. But I knew what you meant.

 

[MikeyLu2010]

there's a difference in recognizing a simple mistake..versus that of enforcing the rules like a nazi...

 

[toofache32]

Same error you had before...never GONE, not went. But I knew what you meant.

Where was my error before? I take criticism well if you point it out.

 

[cuneatus2]

Is anyone here even a doctor?

 

[NTM]

Why would you get paid differently for performing the same procedure(s)?

because one has a MD while the other has a DO.

 

[tkim]

because one has a MD while the other has a DO.

I haven't encountered this. Have you?

 

[cosmo]

Where was my error before? I take criticism well if you point it out.

see post #51

 

[JakeHarley]

My intent was not to put anyone on the whipping-post. My intent was to point out that when professionals speak they should not sound like those who have never went to college. I'm sorry if I took away from our little internet experience here, but you can't argue that incorrect grammar is correct. These aren't my rules, and I'm not sure what this would have to do with values. It is black and white, and it's in any Junior High English textbook.

I am not sure you are hearing me, I am not claiming that "incorrect" grammar is "correct" grammar. I am claiming that if you often choose to ignore what others are trying to communicate, instead waiting for them to stop making sounds so you can tell them to break out their English textbook, you will most likely be perceived as a poor listener and a bit of an A$$ by patients and professional colleagues alike.

You can be married to Strunk all you like. The fact will ALWAYS be that people speak with a great variety of accents and diverse vernacular. Flexibility on your part may serve you and others more highly than zealous adherence to textbook-perfect rules. Its not like people are making unintelligible grunts and clicks here!

That said, I am also not sure I am hearing you correctly. Are you saying you are actually somehow personally slighted when another person makes a MINOR grammatical mistake? Do you feel it somehow says something about you? Are you also saying that if a person cannot speak your version of the language perfectly that they are somehow a less valuable human being? Do you automatically assume that someone who mixed up "gone" and "went" is incapable of great ability in any given area?

I am certain that most people would disagree with these last few assumptions. You can put your own ability with the language, according to your rules, on a pedestal if you wish...and you can enjoy any feelings of superiority you may have. However, if this regularly stops you from being able to listen and connect with people, then what use is it in your role as a physician?

By the way, I have a third pet peeve: Any notion that a human being must blindly and strictly follow every arbitrary rule (i.e. all rules but those of ten commandments magnitude) to be worthy of full respect.

I'm just a redneck from Mississippi who knows the struggle between learning what is heard regularly (and therefore comfortable) and learning what is actually correct.

Did anyone catch my grammatical error?

I hear you, I grew up in a small town, and there are certainly some differences between the way people speak there and the way my English prof spoke. However, "correct" is often an absolutely relative idea. What I am asking is, if you can understand them easily enough, why do YOU care whose version of "correct" they are following?

 

[JakeHarley]

Is anyone here even a doctor?

Probably not, but this is STUDENTdoctor.net.

People with real jobs have better things to do with their time than argue on here like we do

 

[JakeHarley]

Oops

 

[OSUdoc08]

Is anyone here even a doctor?

Not likely, since this is a pre-med forum.

 

[Taus]

because one has a MD while the other has a DO.

hilarious.....

ps...i hope i spelled that right for the sake of this thread...and i hope you enjoy my uncapitalized i's and my choice of using "......" instead of commas and proper full sentences.....

pps...its a f**&ing internet forum....who gives a $hit if theres a few mis-spelled words/grammer mistakes...

 

[OSUdoc08]

because one has a MD while the other has a DO.

 

[Beau Geste]

I am not sure you are hearing me, I am not claiming that "incorrect" grammar is "correct" grammar. I am claiming that if you often choose to ignore what others are trying to communicate, instead waiting for them to stop making sounds so you can tell them to break out their English textbook, you will most likely be perceived as a poor listener and a bit of an A$$ by patients and professional colleagues alike.

You can be married to Strunk all you like. The fact will ALWAYS be that people speak with a great variety of accents and diverse vernacular. Flexibility on your part may serve you and others more highly than zealous adherence to textbook-perfect rules. Its not like people are making unintelligible grunts and clicks here!

That said, I am also not sure I am hearing you correctly. Are you saying you are actually somehow personally slighted when another person makes a MINOR grammatical mistake? Do you feel it somehow says something about you? Are you also saying that if a person cannot speak your version of the language perfectly that they are somehow a less valuable human being? Do you automatically assume that someone who mixed up "gone" and "went" is incapable of great ability in any given area?

I am certain that most people would disagree with these last few assumptions. You can put your own ability with the language, according to your rules, on a pedestal if you wish...and you can enjoy any feelings of superiority you may have. However, if this regularly stops you from being able to listen and connect with people, then what use is it in your role as a physician?

By the way, I have a third pet peeve: Any notion that a human being must blindly and strictly follow every arbitrary rule (i.e. all rules but those of ten commandments magnitude) to be worthy of full respect.




I hear you, I grew up in a small town, and there are certainly some differences between the way people speak there and the way my English prof spoke. However, "correct" is often an absolutely relative idea. What I am asking is, if you can understand them easily enough, why do YOU care whose version of "correct" they are following?

Don't confuse accents/vernacular with grammar. People can't help their accents or the language they speak, but poor grammar is the result of a lack of education, either by choice or lack of educational opportunity. And the point was that we as future professionals should make it a point to look (hence the clothing discussion earlier) and act (the dispute over grammar) as though we are educated. Neither toofache nor I said we would interrupt a patient and give a grammar lesson. You took it upon yourself to think the worst of us by making this assumption. In fact, in my practice, I see children (my current practice is 99% peds) that come from ALL different dialects and even language backgrounds (English, Spanish, Polish, Russian, Hindi, Farsi, German, Swedish to name a few immigrant families) but I don't make my clients feel like idiots by using proper English. I don't stop them and give them English lessons, I just take care of their kids. I've never had any complaints, and in fact, the child from one of my Hindi-speaking families was my ring-bearer in my wedding last weekend. That makes me think I'm a pretty good clinician.

In addition, I don't remember anyone saying that they wouldn't respect a patient if they didn't speak proper English (grammar), but I can tell you that I would not respect a colleague that did not present themselves professionally. And, after going through a graduate program with emphasis on writing clinical documents, I can guarantee you that medical school professors will want you to write in complete sentences with punctuation where appropriate (outside of abbreviations). God forbid you have to communicate with insurance companies, other physicians, or even the patient.

Before you start spouting off about zealousness or picking on patients for poor grammar, read the posts carefully. You've made a lot of assumptions about toofache (and in effect me because I agreed with his/her post) but none of them are backed by anything we wrote. I don't know what kind of job you have, but correct English is expected in the healthcare workplace where appropriate.

 

[Taus]

I don't mean to start anything....but please realize that an anonymous internet forum is very, very far removed from the real/professional world in which we live in......speaking w/ poor grammer/etiquitte/etc in the real world w/ patients....yes thats just plain not acceptable...but here on this forum....who cares.....i dont have the time in the day to edit all of the posts that i make on here.....which i realize i waste too much time doing in the 1st place...

 

[OSUdoc08]

I don't mean to start anything....but please realize that an anonymous internet forum is very, very far removed from the real/professional world in which we live in......speaking w/ poor grammer/etiquitte/etc in the real world w/ patients....yes thats just plain not acceptable...but here on this forum....who cares.....i dont have the time in the day to edit all of the posts that i make on here.....which i realize i waste too much time doing in the 1st place...

I agree. Noone really cares on here. If you do, then you need to get a life.

 

[Beau Geste]

I don't mean to start anything....but please realize that an anonymous internet forum is very, very far removed from the real/professional world in which we live in......speaking w/ poor grammer/etiquitte/etc in the real world w/ patients....yes thats just plain not acceptable...but here on this forum....who cares.....i dont have the time in the day to edit all of the posts that i make on here.....which i realize i waste too much time doing in the 1st place...

Yeah, you're probably right. It wasn't a big deal to begin with but with the anonymous nature people say things they probably wouldn't in a crowd. Didn't this thread start as a DO vs. MD salaries thread?

The poster who wrote about the CPT codes is dead on. You have to be qualified to submit those codes for reimbursement (otherwise it's fraud, such as portraying yourself as a licensed professional when you're not), and that's how you get paid. I know because I do my own billing, and I can't get paid for PT CPT codes, and PTs can't get paid for SLP CPT codes.

The state and insurance companies use CPT coding, but there is also a private-pay portion that I don't know much about when it comes to physicians. I imagine each has their own rate and collects payment on that system. But there shouldn't be a discrepency about the degrees, unless you are salaried. Then your employer can pay you what you agree to let them pay you.

 

[JakeHarley]

You've made a lot of assumptions about toofache (and in effect me because I agreed with his/her post) but none of them are backed by anything we wrote. I don't know what kind of job you have, but correct English is expected in the healthcare workplace where appropriate.

I agree with you that as professionals we must understand eachother clearly. On the other hand, the kind of mistakes we see pointed out here are so minor as to be almost moot with respect to UNDESTANDING. Hold yourself to whatever standard you'd like, there is little usefulness in going out of your way to nit pick such MINOR grammatical differences in this forum.

As far as my assumptions...I've thought about that since reading your post. If I could go back, I would rewrite my previous post to reflect my intention more clearly: to ask questions to understand the extent to which you hold others to the standards that you place so much value in. It sounds as if you only hold 'professionals' to that standard. That clarifies my understanding of you...you don't neccesarily look down on others or treat them differently for their manner of speech. Is that correct?

As you know, some people can be quite awful to others thanks to a self-righteousness based on their status--financial, political, and educational. Physcians aren't immune to this. I am not saying that you are of this personality type, but I was curious about it.

Aside from that curiosity, I've got a weakness for reacting quickly to things that rub me the wrong way. I'm working on that. Internet bulletin boards aren't helping.

For the sake of resolution (if you have the time):

If I understand correctly, you'd like to have confidence in those who hold positions of power and responsibilty, and your confidence is based to some extent on a very precise manner of speech. I can respect that, even if I don't agree with it fully.









And I promise, I am going to shut up after this. I've once again been reminded of the lesson I am trying to learn!

 

[toofache32]

see post #51

#51 was your post. Unless you're referring to my sad attempt at humor that you quoted.

 

[Beau Geste]

I agree with you that as professionals we must understand eachother clearly. On the other hand, the kind of mistakes we see pointed out here are so minor as to be almost moot with respect to UNDESTANDING. Hold yourself to whatever standard you'd like, there is little usefulness in going out of your way to nit pick such MINOR grammatical differences in this forum.

As far as my assumptions...I've thought about that since reading your post. If I could go back, I would rewrite my previous post to reflect my intention more clearly: to ask questions to understand the extent to which you hold others to the standards that you place so much value in. It sounds as if you only hold 'professionals' to that standard. That clarifies my understanding of you...you don't neccesarily look down on others or treat them differently for their manner of speech. Is that correct?

As you know, some people can be quite awful to others thanks to a self-righteousness based on their status--financial, political, and educational. Physcians aren't immune to this. I am not saying that you are of this personality type, but I was curious about it.

Aside from that curiosity, I've got a weakness for reacting quickly to things that rub me the wrong way. I'm working on that. Internet bulletin boards aren't helping.

For the sake of resolution (if you have the time):

If I understand correctly, you'd like to have confidence in those who hold positions of power and responsibilty, and your confidence is based to some extent on a very precise manner of speech. I can respect that, even if I don't agree with it fully.









And I promise, I am going to shut up after this. I've once again been reminded of the lesson I am trying to learn!

I'm a redhead, and have been accused (rightly so) of jumping into the fire without an extinguisher too. Nitpicking is a little silly, but I guess after seeing so many people post with horrible writing skills I wanted to back up toofache. The post he/she was referring to really wasn't as bad as other's I've seen though.

I guess my feeling is that as professionals, our patients are limited to short conversations (I've never spent more than 20 minutes face to face with my DO/MD) and patients read a whole lot from that 20 minutes by the way we dress, talk, walk, treat our staff, etc. Being professional in all those areas is the best way to go as far as patients are concerned. To me, that means presenting yourself as neat, literate, and compassionate among other things. Maybe this particular thread wasn't the right one to criticize, but there are others (especially in the pre-allo) forum that make me think that they HAVE to be trolls - no one could really apply to med school talking/writing like that! But then again, I've been criticized for expecting too much from people. I'm only 29 years old, but I find myself saying "kids these days..." or "what happened to the way things were back in......".

I don't post very often in the pre-osteo forum (although I like it a lot), so now that you regulars know my name, you can just remind me that I might be expecting too much again if my posts are a little particular.

Anyway, it's a good debate, and a breath of fresh air to be able to resolve something on a bulletin board!

 

[toofache32]

As you know, some people can be quite awful to others thanks to a self-righteousness based on their status--financial, political, and educational. Physcians aren't immune to this. I am not saying that you are of this personality type, but I was curious about it...

...If I understand correctly, you'd like to have confidence in those who hold positions of power and responsibilty, and your confidence is based to some extent on a very precise manner of speech. I can respect that, even if I don't agree with it fully.

I didn't intend to hijack this thread by simply quoting someone else.

Holding myself to a high standard does not mean I look down on others. I hope I didn't give that impression. And I hope you don't think I try to sound like the British narrator from Masterpiece Theater when I speak. I can and do talk "peas and mashed potatoes" with my fellow rural patients. And I'm sure I make grammatical errors as well, even while typing here. There! Did you see that run-on? English was never one of my strong subjects...which is why I think if even I noticed it, then it must be bad grammar.

The images people project of themselves doesn't change my confidence in them. But given a choice, I prefer correct over incorrect.

Like I said before, it's only a pet peeve since I've started catching myself speaking with incorrect grammar. And I agree it's nit-picking, but so is differentiating nephritic and nephrotic syndromes...

 

[Shinken]

BUMP.

The OP's question hasn't been answered. Nobody here has provided proof that DOs make the same as MDs. Look in the following link:

www.doctorsalaries.com/2005/data/DOvsMD.html

You'll see that the average DO salary for 2005 was $35,000-50,000 while the average MD salary was $120,000-175,000 for those in primary care only.

Also, DOs were more likely to drive pink VW Jettas to work, particularly with fuzzy dice hanging from the rearview mirror. MDs were more likely to drive BMWs or Mercedes (Mercedeses?) to work.

(let's see how this one works....think hard people....sarcasm or truth? This is like the MCAT! The tone of the author is: (a) playful and lighthearted (b) angry and confrontational (c) reserved yet strong (d) argumentative and obtuse).

 

[OSUdoc08]

BUMP.

The OP's question hasn't been answered. Nobody here has provided proof that DOs make the same as MDs. Look in the following link:

www.doctorsalaries.com/2005/data/DOvsMD.html

You'll see that the average DO salary for 2005 was $35,000-50,000 while the average MD salary was $120,000-175,000 for those in primary care only.

Also, DOs were more likely to drive pink VW Jettas to work, particularly with fuzzy dice hanging from the rearview mirror. MDs were more likely to drive BMWs or Mercedes (Mercedeses?) to work.

(let's see how this one works....think hard people....sarcasm or truth? This is like the MCAT! The tone of the author is: (a) playful and lighthearted (b) angry and confrontational (c) reserved yet strong (d) argumentative and obtuse).

You're an idiot.

 

[tkim]

You guys are getting out of hand.