Do you enjoy EM or just the lifestyle it affords?

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BruceWilly

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My impression of EM thus far has been that physicians are "okay" with their jobs but the pay and time off are what really make it worth it. When you guys say you love your jobs, do you mean you enjoy the actual door to door work, or the lifestyle it can afford? Thanks so much.

-M2

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I truly enjoy enjoy the work. I own an urgent care that has been open for about three years but I work full-time in the emergency department. I could have a better lifestyle and make more money by opening more urgent cares. I chose not to though, because I enjoy the work in the emergency department a lot more and use the urgent care to supplement my income.

Not everyone feels the same way about emergency medicine though. I think you do have a lot of people who went into the field because they thought they would enjoy the lifestyle. Then they realize that emergency medicine is not as much of a lifestyle specialty as they thought it was. Throw that disillusionment on top of the lack of passion or even interest in the actual work you do, and you've got an excellent recipe for burnout and generalized dysphoria.
 
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I truly enjoy the work. Some of the things that make me feel all tingly include (in no particular order):

Looking at a nice crisp EKG.
An ultrasound-guided IJ line (my all-time favorite procedure).
Dislocation reductions (getting that satisfying "thunk").
The "A-ha!" moment of an unexpected diagnosis that fits the picture just right.
Getting people "out of pain" (those that are really in pain, anyways).
Counseling people on health issues (yes; I've had some really grateful "follow-up" visits with some patients)
A negative D-Dimer.

I could go on, but I have to go to work.
 
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Without the lifestyle, I don't see how anyone could enjoy it. Imagine working this job 9 to 5 five days a week and getting paid $200K to do so. Imagine not being able to take a vacation because there is no one else to cover your shifts. Imagine being on-call, every 3rd night. Would you still enjoy the profession?
 
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Without the lifestyle, I don't see how anyone could enjoy it. Imagine working this job 9 to 5 five days a week and getting paid $200K to do so. Imagine not being able to take a vacation because there is no one else to cover your shifts. Imagine being on-call, every 3rd night. Would you still enjoy the profession?

Are you referring to the profession of medicine in general or emergency medicine as a specialty?
 
It sounds like he's referring to EM specifically. Although he's loading the deck by describing a situation that's become increasingly uncommon in any specialty.
 
Thanks for the input so far, just trying to do some soul searching.
 
The lifestyle is good not great.
I get paid really well for not a ton of hours each month.
I also work 1/2 of the major holidays every year, that adds up to a lot of Christmas mornings in the Emergency Department.

A few years back I had 5 folks die in the ED on Christmas morning over the course of a 9 hour shift, I didn't feel like I had a great lifestyle that day.

Last week I missed dinner with my wife and daughter to work a shift. During the shift I got to tell two different women than they were now widows, I didn't feel like I had a great lifestyle that day.

I feel very strongly that what we do matters. We are fortunate to get well compensated for what we do which allows me to do some cool stuff and provide for my family, but if I didn't love what I do each day on shift I'd walk away in a heartbeat.
 
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Work's fun. Being away from work is fun too. I also enjoy my other job.

I do not enjoy my 4th shift in a row nearly as much as the 1st.

Take from that what you will.
 
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the not being on call part is nice, but the 'lifestyle' isn't 'great' per se.
you swing between nights, days, swing shifts. many 'days off' are what is affectionately called DOMAs around here
'day off my a**' , since the next day is a recovery day, feeling jetlagged, trying to switch back and forth.
your sleep schedule is constantly interrupted in some form or another.
probably good if you don't have kids or other obligations, but you end up missing some stuff. granted, not like a surgeon does though.

Overall the work is what I liked best. you have to do what you find interesting,
some shifts elational, some shifts bad, some shifts absolutely awful. just depends.

love catching zebras I had a hunch about.
love that blind femoral or subclavian CVC.
good dispos where your initial management made the difference between life or death.
like pulling fractures and dislocations alot.
seeing some crazy pathology you only read about in textbooks
love a good tox case where your clinical assessment and management was spot on

hate peds codes and telling people they have cancer.
dont like drug seekers, maligners, chronic painers, migraineurs, press ganey.

every job has its good and bads, for me I like the work.
 
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Oh....what to say, what to say, what to say?
 
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Okay, I'm gonna have to keep it 100...


EM is the lone perfect specialty. The lifestyle is more akin to permanent vacation, than actual "work." The work itself, is a misnomer. Laying in a bed of tender rose petals, being fanned by a hospital administrator, would be a more apt description of this "job." The only flaws are that bank accounts are not equipped to accommodate such excessive and fast accumulation of money so easily procured, the lavish parties with free swag and fawning supermodels become a total bore after a while, and the fact rock stars and rappers will try to kill you to take your job, in lieu of theirs.
 
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Okay, I'm gonna have to keep it 100...


EM is the lone perfect specialty. The lifestyle is more akin to permanent vacation, than actual "work." The work itself, is a misnomer. Laying in a bed of tender rose petals, being fanned by a hospital administrator, would be a more apt description of this "job." The only flaws are that bank accounts are not equipped to accommodate such excessive and fast accumulation of money so easily procured, the lavish parties with free swag and fawning supermodels become a total bore after a while, and the fact rock stars and rappers will try to kill you to take your job, in lieu of theirs.
It's like every shift is steak and BJ day.
 
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Steaks and BJ's aside; the thing that could stand to make EM better in terms of lifestyle is a touch more regular of scheduling. I found that I can work "more" and "more productively" when I'm not jerked around between night and day all the time. It really does make all the difference in terms of fatigue and clarity of thought.
 
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My impression of EM thus far has been that physicians are "okay" with their jobs but the pay and time off are what really make it worth it. When you guys say you love your jobs, do you mean you enjoy the actual door to door work, or the lifestyle it can afford? Thanks so much.

-M2
All kidding aside, here's my opinion which most on this board have already heard ad nauseum, as someone who's been pre-med, then a pre-EM med student, EM resident, EM attending for almost 10 years, and now as a an EM physician who no longer works in the ED, but has transitioned to a slower-paced lower-stress EM-Subspecialty. I've seen EM from nearly every vantage point.

The pay-

The pay in EM, is very good. I will not argue with that. On a per/hour basis, it's very good. Let's move on.


The "lifestyle"-

EM does not afford any "lifestyle." There is no "cushy lifestyle" involved. The 32 hr work week did not evolve as a bunch of stoners who found a way to trick the medical world into allowing a subset of doctors to max chill and party all the time. It evolved as an adaptation to the physical and psychological toll EM takes on people due to the acuity, non-stop pace and mood-altering circadian rhythm changes when attempting to work the typical 40 hr work week. 1 hour worked in EM = 1.5 hr doing anything else. Your 32 hr EM work week will not be a 32 hr work week, it will equate to a 48 hr toll taken on your mind and body, or more. Physical and emotional exhaustion will spill over into so called "free time" like it does not in any other 9 am - 5 pm day job, where you're not doing death notifications, and seeing people die and cry, and jet-lagging back and forth between night and day shifts.

The work is challenging, can be rewarding at times, but can also be very hard and exhausting at times. That being said, if you live the work and feel it's a calling for you, it can be very good for certain people. Go into it because you've been suckered into thinking it's going to be easy, and you're not going to bust your tail as hard or harder than any other specialty, you may be disappointed.

Again, I think this myth will live forever like that of Big Foot, Eternal Youth and pots of gold at the end of rainbows, so I'm ALMOST to the point of just not caring enough to dispel it for anyone anymore, especially considering doing so brings more trolling than posting the feel good crap lots of people want to hear.

EM is not a lifestyle specialty. 32 hr work weeks ARE NOT EQUIVALENT to what non-EM physicians know and think of a 32 hr work weeks to be.

If you want a cush, low stress, easy specialty DO NOT DO EM. Do a 9-5 Mon-Fri specialty, with no nights, weekends, holidays and little or no call. Only do EM if you want to work very, hard and know what you're getting into.

Again, the "the 15 shift per month thing" in EM is not for the sake of having 15 shifts off each month. It's because you absolutely have to have 15 days off per month to make the 32 hr/wk as tolerable as 48 hr/wk would be so any other specialty or any other profession. It's just true. Trust me. It's true.

I'm not saying EM is bad. I'm not saying it's good, or in between. It's great for certain people, and not so great for others. It also can be better or worse for certain people at different times in their life, also. It just is what it is. It's not what most wide eyed pre-med and medical student think it is, in my opinion.
 
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Steaks and BJ's aside; the thing that could stand to make EM better in terms of lifestyle is a touch more regular of scheduling. I found that I can work "more" and "more productively" when I'm not jerked around between night and day all the time. It really does make all the difference in terms of fatigue and clarity of thought.

QFT. This actually got me thinking of a thread topic regarding one of the most fundamental divides in EM. Will post later.
 
Fundamental EM divides? Do you mean steaks vs BJs?
Would be a great name for a fast food joint.

"Steak n BJ's"


"In 15 minutes or less, customer satisfaction guaranteed!"
 
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This new restaurant may replace In n Out around here.

Nodded off at a traffic light on the way home from a DAY shift today for the first time. Can't blame work though, this was my first shift back after a week off. :)
 
"Hey, remember that time the majority of the EM forum posters got banned?"

"The what forum?"

"Oh, I guess not, then."
Yeah. Every once and a while you gotta shake the dead wood out of the tree. Maybe we're next. Lol
 
Some more questions on ED lifestyle
1) How many nights do some of you work a week
2) Have anyone here gone to an all-night schedule-do they like that?
3) What do you find most stressful about ED--life and death, pace, odd hours?
 
Some more questions on ED lifestyle
1) How many nights do some of you work a week
2) Have anyone here gone to an all-night schedule-do they like that?
3) What do you find most stressful about ED--life and death, pace, odd hours?

1) Define night. I work 5 2p-10ps, 4 7p-3as, and 3 10p-6as a month. If they're all nights, then that's 3/week. If only the 10ps are nights, then it's 3/4 per week.
2) Your partners like it when you do that. I have 2 guys in my group that do all nights. We pay them (a lot) extra to do it.
3) Hours by far.
 
Some more questions on ED lifestyle
1) How many nights do some of you work a week
2) Have anyone here gone to an all-night schedule-do they like that?
3) What do you find most stressful about ED--life and death, pace, odd hours?

1.) Some weeks, none. Others 3 or 4 in a row. Its more of a month-in-month-out thing rather than a week-in-week-out thing.
2.) I would hate all nights; but we have 2 docs at my current gig that are nights-only. Thank God for them.
3.) Odd hours are a drag. I have difficulty with the life-and-death emotions that are part of the job. Every day at work is someone's "worst day of their life" or their last day on the planet. You get by. It gives you extraordinary perspective.
 
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You're asking me this question the morning after our department was on lockdown because a drug dealer threatened to "come back and shoot us all" after he didn't get the desired narcs through our ortho clinic or our ED...

...this would be a pretty good job if we were allowed CHLs and were issued a dozen or so tags a year...for people.
 
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All kidding aside, here's my opinion which most on this board have already heard ad nauseum, as someone who's been pre-med, then a pre-EM med student, EM resident, EM attending for almost 10 years, and now as a an EM physician who no longer works in the ED, but has transitioned to a slower-paced lower-stress EM-Subspecialty. I've seen EM from nearly every vantage point.

The pay-

The pay in EM, is very good. I will not argue with that. On a per/hour basis, it's very good. Let's move on.


The "lifestyle"-

EM does not afford any "lifestyle." There is no "cushy lifestyle" involved. The 32 hr work week did not evolve as a bunch of stoners who found a way to trick the medical world into allowing a subset of doctors to max chill and party all the time. It evolved as an adaptation to the physical and psychological toll EM takes on people due to the acuity, non-stop pace and mood-altering circadian rhythm changes when attempting to work the typical 40 hr work week. 1 hour worked in EM = 1.5 hr doing anything else. Your 32 hr EM work week will not be a 32 hr work week, it will equate to a 48 hr toll taken on your mind and body, or more. Physical and emotional exhaustion will spill over into so called "free time" like it does not in any other 9 am - 5 pm day job, where you're not doing death notifications, and seeing people die and cry, and jet-lagging back and forth between night and day shifts.

The work is challenging, can be rewarding at times, but can also be very hard and exhausting at times. That being said, if you live the work and feel it's a calling for you, it can be very good for certain people. Go into it because you've been suckered into thinking it's going to be easy, and you're not going to bust your tail as hard or harder than any other specialty, you may be disappointed.

Again, I think this myth will live forever like that of Big Foot, Eternal Youth and pots of gold at the end of rainbows, so I'm ALMOST to the point of just not caring enough to dispel it for anyone anymore, especially considering doing so brings more trolling than posting the feel good crap lots of people want to hear.

EM is not a lifestyle specialty. 32 hr work weeks ARE NOT EQUIVALENT to what non-EM physicians know and think of a 32 hr work weeks to be.

If you want a cush, low stress, easy specialty DO NOT DO EM. Do a 9-5 Mon-Fri specialty, with no nights, weekends, holidays and little or no call. Only do EM if you want to work very, hard and know what you're getting into.

Again, the "the 15 shift per month thing" in EM is not for the sake of having 15 shifts off each month. It's because you absolutely have to have 15 days off per month to make the 32 hr/wk as tolerable as 48 hr/wk would be so any other specialty or any other profession. It's just true. Trust me. It's true.

I'm not saying EM is bad. I'm not saying it's good, or in between. It's great for certain people, and not so great for others. It also can be better or worse for certain people at different times in their life, also. It just is what it is. It's not what most wide eyed pre-med and medical student think it is, in my opinion.

^ This post is 100% accurate. I could not agree more.
 
Some more questions on ED lifestyle
1) How many nights do some of you work a week
2) Have anyone here gone to an all-night schedule-do they like that?
3) What do you find most stressful about ED--life and death, pace, odd hours?


1) Too many. We have 5p-3a, 7p-4a, 10p-7a. I consider them all "nights".
2) You are referring to what is known as a "nocturnist". People will do it if you pay them extra money to work the nights. I don't like 100% nights but I would do it with a differential... just to stay on a single circadian rhythm. At the moment we all "share" the nights.
3) Everything. I can't stress enough what others have said on here about EM not being a lifestyle specialty. I can't count how many times I've promised friends, gf, family, etc.. that I would be home by a certain time and then leave 2 hours later. Just other night, I was literally walking out, poked my head into the trauma bay to see if colleague needed help with an anaphylactic shock code and got stuck in there doing a cric, icu admission and all the charting. I left 2 hours later. I'm lucky if I get 2 weekends off a month and it doesn't matter how many times I tell friends or family that I'm working a weekend or a string of nights, nobody ever truly "gets it" and I end up having to give the same excuses as to why I can't go hang out or go spend time with people... "I'm working". I can't count the times I've been "off all night" on a Tues or Wed night at 2a.m. and everybody else is sleeping. It's a tough environment to work day end day out and difficult to not become jaded, cynical and numb to a certain extent.

Other than that, I love it. Come join us.
 
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1) Too many. We have 5p-3a, 7p-4a, 10p-7a. I consider them all "nights".
2) You are referring to what is known as a "nocturnist". People will do it if you pay them extra money to work the nights. I don't like 100% nights but I would do it with a differential... just to stay on a single circadian rhythm. At the moment we all "share" the nights with pure coincidence that the guys who have been there the longest get the fewest nights although we are not a democratic/private group.
3) Everything. I can't stress enough what others have said on here about EM not being a lifestyle specialty. I can't count how many times I've promised friends, gf, family, etc.. that I would be home by a certain time and then leave 2 hours later. Just other night, I was literally walking out, poked my head into the trauma bay to see if colleague needed help with an anaphylactic shock code and got stuck in there doing a cric, icu admission and all the charting. I left 2 hours later. I'm lucky if I get 2 weekends off a month and it doesn't matter how many times I tell friends or family that I'm working a weekend or a string of nights, nobody ever truly "gets it" and I end up having to give the same excuses as to why I can't go hang out or go spend time with people... "I'm working". I can't count the times I've been "off all night" on a Tues or Wed night at 2a.m. and everybody else is sleeping. It's a tough environment to work day end day out and difficult to not become jaded, cynical and numb to a certain extent.

Other than that, I love it. Come join us.

a 5p-3a shift sounds f'in terrible
 
1) Too many. We have 5p-3a, 7p-4a, 10p-7a. I consider them all "nights".

Yes, so this is a factor that I didn't consider as a medical student.

It was true that I had less shifts per month than my IM colleagues, but they were at least coming home at 6 pm-ish most days (excluding on call days, etc.), whereas *most* of my shifts were the horrific 4-12 shift, which really was a 3:15pm - 2 am shift door to door.

The plus was that I *always* got my full eight hours of sleep in. The bad news was that I barely saw my family since everyone would be asleep when I come home.

Keep in mind that the EM schedules are designed around patient volume, so this means that the bulk of your shifts are the dreaded evening shifts.

It is true, however, that EM *does* offer lots of flexibility once you graduate residency, *but* it's extremely hard work when you are on, which tends to balance things out... All in all though, I think I'd still do the specialty again if I were to go back in time to do this medicine thing over... Having said that, if I could go back in time I'd almost certainly not have gone into medicine at all... But, that's a different story.
 
Why are so many of you working hours over your allotted shift? When the clock strikes midnight I peace out. Most places I work I stop seeing patients 1 hour prior to the end of my shift, and that hour is generally enough to dispo most of the patients. I don't pick up an abdominal pain 1 hour before the end of my shift as a rule. If I'm in a single coverage shop where it's 12 hour shifts, then it is generally accepted that I sign out any patients I can't dispo within 15 minutes or so and go home. Honestly, you guys better be getting paid for staying over the shift time. If not, then you're working in the wrong places, or your work ethic is allowing "them" to take advantage of you.

Remember, we are replaceable employees making widgets in a factory. We are no longer a profession that is respected by the general public, hospital administrators, politicians or anyone else. Why make your life more difficult than it needs to be?
 
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Why are so many of you working hours over your allotted shift? When the clock strikes midnight I peace out. Most places I work I stop seeing patients 1 hour prior to the end of my shift, and that hour is generally enough to dispo most of the patients. I don't pick up an abdominal pain 1 hour before the end of my shift as a rule. If I'm in a single coverage shop where it's 12 hour shifts, then it is generally accepted that I sign out any patients I can't dispo within 15 minutes or so and go home. Honestly, you guys better be getting paid for staying over the shift time. If not, then you're working in the wrong places, or your work ethic is allowing "them" to take advantage of you.

Remember, we are replaceable employees making widgets in a factory. We are no longer a profession that is respected by the general public, hospital administrators, politicians or anyone else. Why make your life more difficult than it needs to be?

For me, I was talking about back in residency. During residency I usually got off on time or within 30 minutes except on evening shifts, which were generally horrendous. And we were scheduled for tons of evening shifts.
 
We're 100% RVU so there is no incentive to sign out pt's and I hate signing them out. Honestly, I'm exaggerating a tad as some days I can leave 30 mins early but many days I'm at least an hour late and sometimes two though that's less common. Many times it's due to delays with imaging, labs, etc.. or the "quickie" that turned out to be a mis triaged train wreck.

All in all, my mood is entirely dependent on how many shifts I'm working back to back. I was in a horrible mood other day and now that I've had two days off... I feel great and love the specialty. Check with me again after my 7 day string.

I think the key to longevity in this specialty is balance. 130 hrs or roundabouts is probably a happy place for most. I typically work a lot more and that's entirely my fault as I'm not pressured to do it. I just want the extra cash to pay on my loans so it's worth the cost, at least at the moment.

5-3a does suck. I'm still not sure where that shift came from...
 
Relatively ignorant fool here: isn't it possible to simply work fewer shifts? Say, six per month rather than a full fifteen, perhaps without extensive contract or benefits?

That's the impression I've gotten in my time spent lurking this forum, anyway. Or is this only available on a locum tenens basis, with little to no job security?

Thanks.
 
Relatively ignorant fool here: isn't it possible to simply work fewer shifts? Say, six per month rather than a full fifteen, perhaps without extensive contract or benefits?

That's the impression I've gotten in my time spent lurking this forum, anyway. Or is this only available on a locum tenens basis, with little to no job security?

Thanks.

It is completely possible. I work at two completely separate sites. One place I work 4 shifts per month and the other 8. It is completely possible just to work at one place with 6 shifts per month
 
It is completely possible. I work at two completely separate sites. One place I work 4 shifts per month and the other 8. It is completely possible just to work at one place with 6 shifts per month

How much seniority would you need to score a part-time ER job? Or is it more a matter of going rural, or taking midnight shifts?

Emergency medicine has been on my shortlist for years now—it seems like very engaging, worthwhile work—but I feel like doing it full time would most certainly turn one into a zombie.
 
How much seniority would you need to score a part-time ER job? Or is it more a matter of going rural, or taking midnight shifts?

Emergency medicine has been on my shortlist for years now—it seems like very engaging, worthwhile work—but I feel like doing it full time would most certainly turn one into a zombie.
Depends on if you're talking iZombie or Walking Dead style.
 
How much seniority would you need to score a part-time ER job? Or is it more a matter of going rural, or taking midnight shifts?

Emergency medicine has been on my shortlist for years now—it seems like very engaging, worthwhile work—but I feel like doing it full time would most certainly turn one into a zombie.

Generally big cities where there isn't difficulty in recruiting only want full-time providers. If you want to "permanent part-time" then you're going to end up in less desirable or rural areas.
 
Generally big cities where there isn't difficulty in recruiting only want full-time providers. If you want to "permanent part-time" then you're going to end up in less desirable or rural areas.

Thanks! You've been very helpful. I'm several years out yet, but there's no reason I can't get excited about it. Hell, from what I've seen of the field, I'd happily take midnight shifts every Saturday and Sunday in the middle of BFE if it meant seeing my family five days a week.

Just one more question if you don't mind: why do you, personally, work low shifts in two separate EDs?
 
Thanks! You've been very helpful. I'm several years out yet, but there's no reason I can't get excited about it. Hell, from what I've seen of the field, I'd happily take midnight shifts every Saturday and Sunday in the middle of BFE if it meant seeing my family five days a week.

Just one more question if you don't mind: why do you, personally, work low shifts in two separate EDs?

When you are a part timer, you are generally under an independent contractor agreement. Most of them stipulate that you can be fired at any time for any reason. If the site becomes fully staffed, then they may just not schedule you anymore. If you piss off a nurse, or the wrong consultant the hospital may make them let you go. That is why the security of two jobs is essential, as you need the security of two sources of income should something happen to one of them.
 
a 5p-3a shift sounds f'in terrible

It is. Luckily I got my share in med school so I knew to avoid anything that made me work those hours.
 
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