Doctivism---Is it the new normal?

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Oh yes, historical precedent makes it completely ok then!! These protests were on par with the civil rights marches in the 1960s. :rolleyes:

The protests were for Nam. They were voluntary.

You just changed your tune, even if it was for the civil rights movements, your issue was with voluntary protests. Which is it then? Voluntary protests or ones that you deem unimportant?

And you're still avoiding a question.

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http://www.usnews.com/news/national/articles/2007/10/01/crack-vs-powder-cocaine-a-gulf-in-penalties
While pure cocaine was introduced for medicinal purposes in the 1880s, crack cocaine emerged in the mid-1980s in part because of its almost immediate high and the fact that it is inexpensive to produce and buy. Highly addictive, the two varieties are classified as Schedule II substances.

As a result of the Anti-Drug Abuse Act of 1986, Congress set forth different mandatory penalties for cocaine and crack cocaine, with significantly higher punishments for crack cocaine offenses.
The 1980's drug laws were put into place because politicians wanted to "out tough" each other while fighting the war on drugs. But yeah, who gives a **** if the laws end up targeting blacks more than anyone else. People are totally fine with creating a brand new slave class. That's the magic of apathy...

Also, let's protect Danilo Blandon (who was complicit in flooding the streets of South Central Los Angeles in the 1980's with crack) because we needed to fund the Contras in Nicaragua.

Clearly, the black community has valid reasons for periodically raising hell and not trusting the institutions that are supposed to protect them.
 
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The protests were for Nam. They were voluntary.

You just changed your tune, even if it was for the civil rights movements, your issue was with voluntary protests. Which is it then? Voluntary protests or ones that you deem unimportant?

And you're still avoiding a question.
You're right. Vietnam War protests are exactly with the same importance and gravitas as these med student protests. Power to the people!
 
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College is WAY more affordable there, even for the average person. Yes, not to everyone, but not the same rate of cost as in the US.

Mexico has tons of oppression and drug related and crime problems. Are you kidding?



I mean, you seemed to care a lot about where I lived so I figured I'd fill in the blanks and make your life easier.

Still waiting on your answer re:white privilege. For realsies.


I'm not even going to entertain the more "affordable college" in Mexico argument.

I was hoping you'd bring up the drug violence and I admittedly baited you into it a little because it really makes a beautiful point. You are exactly right. Wealthy cartels are warring over who gets to supply OUR nation with all of it's heroin and cocaine.
 
The 1980's drug laws were put into place because politicians wanted to "out tough" each other while fighting the war on drugs. But yeah, who gives a **** if it ends up targeting blacks more than anyone else. People are totally fine with creating a brand new slave class. That's the magic of apathy...

And also, let's protect Danilo Blandon (who was complicit in flooding the streets of South Central Los Angeles in the 1980's with crack) because we needed to fund the Contras in Nicaragua.

Clearly, the black community has valid reasons for periodically raising hell and not trusting the institutions that are supposed to protect them.
Yeah, the fact that crack cocaine is the form that gives you an immediate high has no bearing at all. But bc it affects a certain race (althought not the entire race, just the ones who choose to do illicit drugs) that gives you license to call it racist. Boo-hoo.
 
Yeah, the fact that crack cocaine is the form that gives you an immediate high has no bearing at all. But bc it affects a certain race (althought not the entire race, just the ones who choose to do illicit drugs) that gives you license to call it racist. Boo-hoo.
So it's likely that you really don't give a **** about the black community. And that's totally fine. But some of us do. And I'm not gonna waste my time arguing semantics and looking up the various interpretations of racism, etc.

Clearly, there are laws and institutions that make life far worse for certain groups. And again, some of us are not ok with it.
 
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So it's likely that you really don't give a **** about the black community. And that's totally fine. But some of us do. And I'm not gonna waste my time arguing semantics and looking up the various interpretations of racism, etc.

Clearly, there are laws and institutions that make life far worse for certain groups. And again, some of us are not ok with it.
Wrong again. I don't give a **** about those who willingly choose to do illicit drugs for the purpose of getting high esp. one with a huge addiction potential and dangerous. Take illicit drugs - be prepared to serve the jail time the law mandates for that, regardless of your skin color. Only black people don't have the ability to smoke crack.
 
Wrong again. I don't give a **** about those who willingly choose to do illicit drugs for the purpose of getting high esp. one with a huge addiction potential and dangerous. Take illicit drugs - be prepared to serve the jail time the law mandates for that, regardless of your skin color. Only black people don't have the ability to smoke crack.
Wrong about what? I said it's likely aka not certain. But it's great to hear that you're ok with the incarceration of drug users :thumbup: You're just overflowing with compassion...
 
Wrong about what? I said it's likely aka not certain. But it's great to hear that you're ok with the incarceration of drug users :thumbup: You're just overflowing with compassion...
I have more compassion for those around them that are put in harm's way by being around those whose purpose is to get high or those who have the unfortunate circumstance of being killed by someone who is high.
 
I have more compassion for those around them that are put in harm's way by being around those whose purpose is to get high or those who have the unfortunate circumstance of being killed by someone who is high.
Obviously, having some compassion is "more" than having zero compassion. But sure, let's continue to incarcerate drug users. It's definitely working wonders.
 
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Obviously, having some compassion is "more" than having zero compassion. But sure, let's continue to incarcerate drug users. It's definitely working wonders.
Didn't say that's the only solution. You have two choices as an active drug user -- rehab w/psychiatry or jail. Pick your choice. As an active drug user, you are a danger to others - esp. the disabled, the elderly, and children who can't defend themselves.
 
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Didn't say that's the only solution. You have two choices as an active drug user -- rehab w/psychiatry or jail. Pick your choice. As an active drug user, you are a danger to others - esp. the disabled, the elderly, and children who can't defend themselves.
Lol
 
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Didn't say that's the only solution. You have two choices as an active drug user -- rehab w/psychiatry or jail. Pick your choice. As an active drug user, you are a danger to others - esp. the disabled, the elderly, and children who can't defend themselves.
denzel.jpg

Yep, it's that simple...
And I didn't accuse you of saying that it's the only solution...

Although, many of us believe that the (overly) punitive measures are harmful and counterproductive. But hey, you're entitled to your opinion. Even if that means supporting the incarceration of non-violent drug users.
 
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denzel.jpg

Yep, it's that simple...
And I didn't accuse you of saying that it's the only solution...

Although, many of us believe that the (overly) punitive measures are harmful and counterproductive. But hey, you're entitled to your opinion. Even if that means supporting the incarceration of non-violent drug users.
You're right. Drug users have no potential of being violent. I'm sure ED docs would disagree with you though.
 
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You're right. Drug users have no potential of being violent. I'm sure ED docs would disagree with you though.
Yeah, and a high percentage of violent crimes are committed under the influence of alcohol. Should we reinstate Prohibition?
 
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Tons of med students are as naive, clueless, and like sheep flock to whatever social cause thing is most popular at that given time with their own 'doctivism' kind of way. Many are clueless and support silly things like PNHP.

Dermie seem on point about drug addicts. However, we do know that sadly jail is not the best answer to this epidemic either.
 
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Yeah, the fact that crack cocaine is the form that gives you an immediate high has no bearing at all. But bc it affects a certain race (althought not the entire race, just the ones who choose to do illicit drugs) that gives you license to call it racist. Boo-hoo.

should alprazolam-related drug offenses carry stiffer penalties than offenses related to other benzos?
 
Yeah, and a high percentage of violent crimes are committed under the influence of alcohol. Should we reinstate Prohibition?
Yes, bc Alcohol works pharmacologically EXACTLY like LSD, Meth, Cocaine, etc. Have you ever even worked or done a rotation in an ER at an academic medical center?
 
Didn't say that's the only solution. You have two choices as an active drug user -- rehab w/psychiatry or jail. Pick your choice. As an active drug user, you are a danger to others - esp. the disabled, the elderly, and children who can't defend themselves.

Given that you've got some knowledge of Chicago, you include the fact that rehab options for those with medicaid (or less) in said city is pretty much sh-t, right?
 
Tons of med students are as naive, clueless, and like sheep flock to whatever social cause thing is most popular at that given time with their own 'doctivism' kind of way. Many are clueless and support silly things like PNHP.

Dermie seem on point about drug addicts. However, we do know that sadly jail is not the best answer to this epidemic either.
There is no best answer to drug addiction. Do an ER rotation in an academic medical center in an urban area. It will change your view on how very dangerous many of these drugs are and the first people they take it out on are healthcare workers in the ER.
 
Given that you've got some knowledge of Chicago, you include the fact that rehab options for those with medicaid (or less) in said city is pretty much sh-t, right?
Who is talking about Medicaid? No one.
 
Well, we all know what cops do to activists, so I'm going to go ahead and say "doctivism" is a bad idea. We, as physicians, want to set an example, and getting ourselves murdered on the street is a poor idea from a public health perspective. Cops are literally the most dangerous animal on the planet, so there is no need to go and stir this potential ****storm up any more than it already is.
 
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Yes, bc Alcohol works pharmacologically EXACTLY like LSD, Meth, Cocaine, etc. Have you ever even worked or done a rotation in an ER at an academic medical center?

I'd rather deal with the crackhead than the drunk in the ED. The crackheads are just a flip of the coin between a CC of chest pain and SI. You never know what you're getting when they show up drunk.
 
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You're right. Vietnam War protests are exactly with the same importance and gravitas as these med student protests. Power to the people!

I never equated them, you did.

I was responding to your comment about the protests being voluntary. So which is it? Voluntary protests or those that pass the dermie test for importance?
 
Yes, bc Alcohol works pharmacologically EXACTLY like LSD, Meth, Cocaine, etc. Have you ever even worked or done a rotation in an ER at an academic medical center?
Lol. When did I ever say that drug users have no potential of being violent? Why are you bringing up pharmacology?

Again, I'm not ok with incarcerating non-violent drug users. You are. And even though it's an impractical viewpoint, you are entitled to it.
 
I'd rather deal with the crackhead than the drunk in the ED. The crackheads are just a flip of the coin between a CC of chest pain and SI. You never know what you're getting when they show up drunk.
I'm the opposite. I'll take a drunk over someone on a cocaine high or on LSD. There are protocols for alcohol detox.
 
Given that you've got some knowledge of Chicago, you include the fact that rehab options for those with medicaid (or less) in said city is pretty much sh-t, right?

about 70% of the patients I deal with. Only one in three even has access to decent psychiatric addiction care. The option of rehab isn't one that exists for disadvantaged communities in many cities... basically the option is jail.
 
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I never equated them, you did.

I was responding to your comment about the protests being voluntary. So which is it? Voluntary protests or those that pass the dermie test for importance?
It was sarcasm. Obviously Vietnam War protests are not on par with med student 4.5 minute protests. They aren't on the same plane of importance for most rational people.
 
I'm the opposite. I'll take a drunk over someone on a cocaine high or on LSD. There are protocols for alcohol detox.

that's because cocaine and LSD won't kill you. LSD and PCP is another story, but the cocaine patients are usually docile (irritable, but docile) by the time they come into the ED.
 
I'm still waiting for the definition....
I'm not your jester. Esp. when a) it wasn't directed at you and b) it was a joke. Esp. when you're itching to fight on another topic. I won't be giving that to you.
 
that's because cocaine and LSD won't kill you. LSD and PCP is another story, but the cocaine patients are usually docile (irritable, but docile) by the time they come into the ED.
So cocaine will kill you or won't? And LSD will kill you or won't? you listed it twice.
 
sorry if I need to clarify.

Alcohol will kill you.

LSD and cocaine can be slept off.
Unless that Cocaine spurs an MI. Alcohol withdrawal will kill you. The amount of EtOH you'd have to drink to die would have to be huge.

edit: NickNaylor beat me to it.
 
I'm not your jester. Esp. when a) it wasn't directed at you and b) it was a joke. Esp. when you're itching to fight on another topic. I won't be giving that to you.

It's a public forum, keep it to a pm if you don't want others to see and comment next time.

If you're joking about something, it's usually a nice thing to know about it.

I'm frankly more interested in why you won't answer a direct question than your answer to said question but I'm not surprised.

I don't think you believe such a thing exists actually.

I'm honestly not itching to fight. I'm just enjoying your efforts to constantly redirect your line of criticism in light of new information. Re: law school final date change.

Did you freak out about classmates moving test dates for life events like marriage and honeymoons? Albany said they do that for their students. Would you.... protest that?
 
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Unless that Cocaine spurs an MI. Alcohol withdrawal will kill you. The amount of EtOH you'd have to drink to die would have to be huge.

edit: NickNaylor beat me to it.

Given that I'm assuming we're both MD's here: umm, no sh-t. If the ED doesn't have an EKG ready on every patient they consult me that's coke positive they hear it from me.

But you're digressing from the point. Cocaine patients are pretty ****ing easy to deal with compared to drunks. Given an option between those two, the drunk is more likely to try to punch one of us. The cocaine guy just wants a bed and a sandwich. There's no DTs with cocaine. the management for cocaine withdrawal is "sleep".
 
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It's a public forum, keep it to a pm if you don't want others to see and comment next time.

If you're joking about something, it's usually a nice thing to know about it.

I'm frankly more interested in why you won't answer a direct question than your answer to said question but I'm not surprised.

I don't think you believe such a thing exists actually.

I'm honestly not itching to fight. I'm just enjoying your efforts to constantly redirect your line of criticism in light of new information. Re: law school final date change.

Did you freak out about classmates moving test dates for life events like marriage and honeymoons? Albany said they do that for their students. Would you.... protest that?
The comment was in a reply to someone else's post not yours. Yup, like I thought, just wanting to argue. Onto the block list you go. :hello:
 
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Hahaha yes. Is this something I get an SDN milestone for?

I just made dermviser block me and refuse to answer possibly the simplest question asked in this thread.

This is the best. I'm legit laughing right now.

Okay it's actually a bit sad that I'm laughing.

DERMVISER: defender of justice. Protector of sdn dialogue. Enforcer of law school finals dates. Decider of legitimate protest causes.

SDN HERRROOOOOOOO!
 
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Hahaha yes. Is this something I get an SDN milestone for?

I just made dermviser block me and refuse to answer possibly the simplest question asked in this thread.

This is the best. I'm legit laughing right now.

Okay it's actually a bit sad that I'm laughing.

DERMVISER: defender of justice. Protector of sdn dialogue. Enforcer of law school finals dates. Decider of legitimate protest causes.

SDN HERRROOOOOOOO!
God I hope I'm next. The mobile app sucks at not showing people on my block list...if I was on his too that'd help.
 
God I hope I'm next. The mobile app sucks at not showing people on my block list...if I was on his too that'd help.
Ugh I know right? That's the worst
 
Dermviser blocked me for white privilege.
 
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Waiting for Dermviser to comment about how little "overprivileged" students at all those institutions know about racial discrimination in America :rolleyes:

To be fair, I'm sure that there were students from those schools who did not take part in those demonstrations.

In all honesty I feel bad for police, because most of them are good people and the public completely turned against them. What a bad time to be a cop!
In theory it should take more than being a good person to be a cop. But then again the police force is nothing more than a jobs program now. The rangers of the wild west are gone.
 


I imagine that you might sing a different tune if you ever need police protection.
When I was in a position to need protection, I wished we had a police force which actually provided a sense of security, instead of one where calling in for help felt like a bigger risk than dealing with the actual threats at hand.
 
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It's certainly a better protest than blocking roads and rioting. I don't have a problem with a peaceful protest.

I will say I bet 1% or less of these people actually went through the physical evidence of the Brown case.
 
When I was in a position to need protection, I wished we had a police force which actually provided a sense of security, instead of one where calling in for help felt like a bigger risk than dealing with the actual threats at hand.
When have you ever called the police and things actually got worse and you felt less safe after they arrived? I am genuinely curious.
 
When have you ever called the police and things actually got worse and you felt less safe after they arrived? I am genuinely curious.
It's not a problem if their public image is so bad that people don't feel they can turn to them when needed?

Look at the many stories out there about getting restraining orders which piss off the threatening party and then aren't enforced. Look at the experience of sexual assault victims who attempt to use the legal system. Look at the stories of families who call for help with a mentally ill or challenged individual (or even an immature child) and that person ends up dead. I honestly can think of shockingly few situations where I would call the cops for anything but checking off the boxes for an eventual lawsuit or insurance report.
 
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