Doctorate in Mathematics

[Link2]

Hello

I am a third year student in mathematics and physics who is considering going into a MD/PhD program. I have a very deep interest in both research (both related to biology and mathematics) and clinical work. As a career, I would like to be able to work in both fields in some capacity. However, I have very little interest in fields which combine both mathematics and biology, such as applying computational methods to problems in biology. Would doing a doctorate in mathematics and an MD be a viable option? More importantly, would it be possible to work in both fields? I am still very interested in clinical work and wouldn’t want to let go it and work in a strictly academic position.

I would also appreciate if you can take a look at my other thread regarding admissions.

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Fencer]

There are fields like Biophysics, Biochemistry, Computational Neuroscience, and Radiological Sciences where Physics, Math and biomedical sciences intersect every day.

 

[eteshoe]

I was going to suggest computational bio but you said that you're not really into that. Working on strictly mathematical problems and in medicine seems like too much of a stretch to be possible. What branch of math are you most interested in? Statistical modeling or operations research are some of the most transferable math branches if you don't want to work in a strictly academic position.

 

[Neuronix]

I would like to be able to work in both fields in some capacity. However, I have very little interest in fields which combine both mathematics and biology, such as applying computational methods to problems in biology.

What you're writing makes no sense. If you're not interested in combining both mathematics and biology, why get an MD and a PhD? Why work in both fields at the same time? Your strength as an MD/PhD comes in having a hand in both worlds and trying to bridge the two. Your weakness on the research side is that you'll never be a full-time applied mathematician. You compete by combining the science with medicine. If you're not interested in that, there's no point in doing both degrees.

 

[QofQuimica]

OP, it might help us if you told us what kind of research you did have an interest in. And/or what kind of clinical medicine you think you have an interest in. Otherwise, I agree with Neuro that your plan makes no sense, and you should either pick medicine or mathematics.

 

[Link2]

There are fields like Biophysics, Biochemistry, Computational Neuroscience, and Radiological Sciences where Physics, Math and biomedical sciences intersect every day.

Those sound like interesting fields but they are not what I am primarily interested in.

I was going to suggest computational bio but you said that you're not really into that. Working on strictly mathematical problems and in medicine seems like too much of a stretch to be possible. What branch of math are you most interested in? Statistical modeling or operations research are some of the most transferable math branches if you don't want to work in a strictly academic position.

My main research interests lie in algebraic geometry and partial differential equations.

What you're writing makes no sense. If you're not interested in combining both mathematics and biology, why get an MD and a PhD? Why work in both fields at the same time? Your strength as an MD/PhD comes in having a hand in both worlds and trying to bridge the two. Your weakness on the research side is that you'll never be a full-time applied mathematician. You compete by combining the science with medicine. If you're not interested in that, there's no point in doing both degrees.

The reason for asking this question is that I am interested in both mathematics and medicine as a career and not able to choose one over the other. I understand that an MD/PhD program is not advisable just because of my indecisiveness.

OP, it might help us if you told us what kind of research you did have an interest in. And/or what kind of clinical medicine you think you have an interest in. Otherwise, I agree with Neuro that your plan makes no sense, and you should either pick medicine or mathematics.

The types of clinical medicine I have an interest in are orthopaedics, cardiology and nephrology.

 

[URHere]

My main research interests lie in algebraic geometry and partial differential equations.

The reason for asking this question is that I am interested in both mathematics and medicine as a career and not able to choose one over the other. I understand that an MD/PhD program is not advisable just because of my indecisiveness.

I came pretty close to pursuing a PhD in mathematics before I decided on the MD/PhD path. I see the appeal, but as others have said, MD/PhD is not a good way to merge two completely separate life interests. Balancing research and clinical practice is challenging, even for people who have PhDs in fields that perfectly fit their areas of medical expertise. If you can merge your two focuses (for example, by being a cancer researcher who collects clinical samples from patients or a neurosurgeon who sees spinal injuries all day and then attempts to improve imaging modalities to be more specific) you can certainly argue that your medical skills will make you a better researcher and that your research will be clinically relevant. Even then, you only have a small chance of being a successful clinician scientist, but MD/PhD programs are willing to train you (and pay for your training), because they don't want debt to be an issue for the small percent who will make it in research.

Medicine and your mathematical field of interest have very little to do with one another. There is no incentive for an MD/PhD program to accept or pay for you. If you want both degrees, pursue them separately (PhD first) but realize that you will need to devote approximately a decade to your medical training with very little room for mathematics. By the time you return, you will be rusty and behind the curve. If you want to continue working as a physician, mathematics will be little more than a hobby for you - it will be difficult (more likely impossible) to hold separate jobs in both fields.

 

[globe199]

Those sound like interesting fields but they are not what I am primarily interested in.



My main research interests lie in algebraic geometry and partial differential equations.



The reason for asking this question is that I am interested in both mathematics and medicine as a career and not able to choose one over the other. I understand that an MD/PhD program is not advisable just because of my indecisiveness.



The types of clinical medicine I have an interest in are orthopaedics, cardiology and nephrology.

Have you ever thought about theoretical evolutionary biology? Currently it involves a lot more abstract math than most computational biology I've seen. I know there they think about algebraic geometry when figuring out the construction of phylogenetic trees. Also, PDEs are everywhere in biology as well - e.g. the study of blood flow since you mentioned cardiology - although from my understanding those are generally solved numerically, which is something you don't seem you would be interested in.

 

[wholeheartedly]

have you taken any biostatistics courses. if not I'd recommend it. it could be a good merger for you. otherwise, I'm not sure what would work for your interests.

 

[JETER]

I've made my chops on partial diff-e-q. Without a doubt, ortho. Assuming, of course, that you can swing a mallet

 

[Link2]

I came pretty close to pursuing a PhD in mathematics before I decided on the MD/PhD path. I see the appeal, but as others have said, MD/PhD is not a good way to merge two completely separate life interests. Balancing research and clinical practice is challenging, even for people who have PhDs in fields that perfectly fit their areas of medical expertise. If you can merge your two focuses (for example, by being a cancer researcher who collects clinical samples from patients or a neurosurgeon who sees spinal injuries all day and then attempts to improve imaging modalities to be more specific) you can certainly argue that your medical skills will make you a better researcher and that your research will be clinically relevant. Even then, you only have a small chance of being a successful clinician scientist, but MD/PhD programs are willing to train you (and pay for your training), because they don't want debt to be an issue for the small percent who will make it in research.

Medicine and your mathematical field of interest have very little to do with one another. There is no incentive for an MD/PhD program to accept or pay for you. If you want both degrees, pursue them separately (PhD first) but realize that you will need to devote approximately a decade to your medical training with very little room for mathematics. By the time you return, you will be rusty and behind the curve. If you want to continue working as a physician, mathematics will be little more than a hobby for you - it will be difficult (more likely impossible) to hold separate jobs in both fields.

This is what I expected. Unfortunately, I have very little interest in merging these two and I don’t see it working as a career for me. I have read that if you pursue a MD/PhD and go on to some faculty position, you typically end up doing a mix of clinical and research work. I was wondering if it is possible to balance both the research work in mathematics and medicine along with my clinical duties. I apologize if that seems naive, and I expect the answer to be that it is not practical.

Have you ever thought about theoretical evolutionary biology? Currently it involves a lot more abstract math than most computational biology I've seen. I know there they think about algebraic geometry when figuring out the construction of phylogenetic trees. Also, PDEs are everywhere in biology as well - e.g. the study of blood flow since you mentioned cardiology - although from my understanding those are generally solved numerically, which is something you don't seem you would be interested in.

I had not thought of that. Thanks, I will try to look in to it.

have you taken any biostatistics courses. if not I'd recommend it. it could be a good merger for you. otherwise, I'm not sure what would work for your interests.

I have taken a similar course and I wasn’t interested in it. From my limited exposure, I don’t think I would be interested in anything that combines both fields.

 

[Neuronix]

I work with an MD/PhD who has a PhD in mathematics. He will tell you to find a niche where you apply the PhD to medicine, as he has.

This discussion is also a moot point for another reason. You won't get an acceptance to an MD/PhD program with the attitude that you're unwilling to integrate both degrees. Doing a PhD in straight mathematics would be a really hard sell to anyone with an MD. Wanting to utilize them separately will make even less sense to program directors.

 

[CheA]

My main research interests lie in algebraic geometry and partial differential equations.

The reason for asking this question is that I am interested in both mathematics and medicine as a career and not able to choose one over the other. I understand that an MD/PhD program is not advisable just because of my indecisiveness.

The types of clinical medicine I have an interest in are orthopaedics, cardiology and nephrology.

Although I suspect you don't really understand yet why your proposition sounds a bit ridiculous, I'm intrigued because I like math and physics as well.
Let me try to get this straight:
-You like algebraic geometry and PDE.
-At the same time, you are interested in orthopaedics, cardiology, and nephrology.
-You don't want to do a PhD where you have anything to do with biology.

I don't know about orthopedics (maybe deeper understanding of mechanics/mechanical engineering could be useful, but I don't know if you'd find that interesting) or nephrology (this field is really biochem/molecular bio-oriented, as far as basic science goes), but in cardiology, deeper understanding of fluid dynamics could be useful. Fluid dynamics is very difficult stuff, and you can probably learn all the math you ever wanted in PhD to become a real expert in that.

Like others have said, you will have trouble getting into med school when you openly say "I have no interest in merging math/physics with biology". I think your best bet is to temporarily fool yourself into thinking that you want to do biophysics/ecology or whatever when you apply to MD/PhD, get in, then find a mentor NOT in the department of mathematics (residency program directors will think you come from Mars when they hear your PhD degree is in math) who is an expert in fluid dynamics (potentially in bio/chemical engineering, applied physics maybe) and do all the math-heavy PhD research you want. Sometime during PhD, do a project that is related to cardiology and pitch that to program directors. Engineering fields in general are conducive to people who want to learn higher math and still come out with a practical skill-set.

FWIW, I suspect that as you learn more and more math, your enthusiasm for it will wane. There's only so much math you can learn before you start going into really abstract stuff. While it can be beautiful to understand, abstract, theorem-driven math really doesn't have much use for the problems encountered in everyday human experience. If your enthusiasm for pure math doesn't wane overtime you should just become a mathematician. When it does, you will probably find yourself working (happily) somewhere at the interface of math and medicine.

 

[Link2]

I work with an MD/PhD who has a PhD in mathematics. He will tell you to find a niche where you apply the PhD to medicine, as he has.

This discussion is also a moot point for another reason. You won't get an acceptance to an MD/PhD program with the attitude that you're unwilling to integrate both degrees. Doing a PhD in straight mathematics would be a really hard sell to anyone with an MD. Wanting to utilize them separately will make even less sense to program directors.

Thanks for the honest answer. I suppose I will have to rethink my future study plan now.

 

[deleted722807]

[Deleted]