Does anyone else feel cynical?

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altblue

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Maybe you should also consider reading things that are on the opposite spectrum: about individuals that go into the profession for the right reasons. When you see a situation you can decide to focus on the pros or cons. This will shape how you see medicine. But I will say that it is perfectly normal to get into this career for the money and prestige if you also have other genuine reasons. If money and prestige are the only reasons then those individuals will typically fail or get burnt out (things I have heard on this forum).
 
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I know a few people who aren't too compassionate (one has no volunteering as a Junior...) but kill the grades/MCAT and want to do medicine. The Junior I mentioned has two physician parents and knows what he's going into. Not sure what motivates him.
 
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you will find this in every profession.
 
Maybe just worry about yourself and if it's the right fit for you. Everyone has their own reasons. I wouldn't try to look for the right justification for going into medicine.
 
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I know a few people who aren't too compassionate (one has no volunteering as a Junior...) but kill the grades/MCAT and want to do medicine. The Junior I mentioned has two physician parents and knows what he's going into. Not sure what motivates him.

Having no volunteering doesn't necessarily equate to having little compassion. Most premeds wouldn't volunteer half as much as they do now if they weren't trying to get into medical school
 
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Are you cynical because you feel that those peers you mentioned will make worse off doctors, or because you feel like they don't deserve to become physicians as much as others?

If it's the latter, then I would re-examine your mindset regarding the profession, as I don't think it should be viewed as a reward for one's resume, merits, or even altruism. Personally, I want the people who will make the best physicians to go into medicine. Sometimes that might be someone who has a wealth of compassion, other times it may be someone who is hyper intelligent (not implying that these qualities are exclusive, but there are a healthy arsenal of various skills that help make good doctors).
 
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I know a few people who aren't too compassionate (one has no volunteering as a Junior...) but kill the grades/MCAT and want to do medicine. The Junior I mentioned has two physician parents and knows what he's going into. Not sure what motivates him.
 
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Having no volunteering doesn't necessarily equate to having little compassion. Most premeds wouldn't volunteer half as much as they do now if they weren't trying to get into medical school

Sad but true. I am fortunate in the sense that I was able to find a volunteer organization that I absolutely love. I dedicated a significant amount of time volunteering with the organization, but none of it felt like "work". The people I volunteered with were awesome, and I genuinely believed in the mission of the organization. However, I am aware that often times, it is difficult to find a volunteering organization/cause that you feel passionate about. And considering how premeds have so much stuff on their plates (grades, MCAT, research, clinical exposure, etc), it is understandable that many/most cannot find enough time and motivation to perform community service.
 
I know a few people who aren't too compassionate (one has no volunteering as a Junior...) but kill the grades/MCAT and want to do medicine. The Junior I mentioned has two physician parents and knows what he's going into. Not sure what motivates him.

...Maybe it's the two physician parents
 
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Doing a minor gravedig here with a tl;dr list.

1. I consider myself a compassionate person, but the process of doing ECs and preparing for medical school has made me feel more self-centered, and has forced me to recongize that many of the good things I do benefit me too

2. Unless I bomb the MCAT, I'm guessing I can get into a DO or low-tier MD school. At this point I'm not overly concerned about less ethical applicants beating me out

3. Maybe I can't truly "evaluate" other pre-meds, but I intuitively feel that certain pre-meds shouldn't be doctors with their current levels of maturity (though I have issues just as everyone else does). Some of them are not kind people, are overly-ambitious (more than I am!), overestimate the physician's lifestyle/salary or have their heart set on other fields. None of these traits should inherently disqualify someone from applying - it's just the ugly combination of them that I see (or get an impression of) in other pre-meds scaring me.

4. Then there's the "3.8 + ECs robo" argument. My friends have commented that I seem obsessed (and I probably am!) - my fixation with rankings is unbecoming of me. I honestly haven't had a creative thought, or creative project, in the past two years. I'm very good at following directions, working hard, and conforming to a standard though - skills that med schools select for.

5. Prestige & money are far down the list of reasons to apply to med school, but I'm afraid they're becoming more compelling. I was in it because I liked science, helping people, and research on the side (and I still believe these are the biggest reasons!), but money + prestige is becoming more persuasive.

Overall, I honestly feel kind of terrible about being pre-med , and everyone says problems get worse in medical school, residency and beyond, so yes, I'm kind of scared. Am I being unreasonable?
 
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Doing a minor gravedig here with a tl;dr list.

1. I consider myself a compassionate person, but the process of doing ECs and preparing for medical school has made me feel more self-centered, and has forced me to recongize that many of the good things I do benefit me too

2. Unless I bomb the MCAT, I'm guessing I can get into a DO or low-tier MD school. At this point I'm not overly concerned about less ethical applicants beating me out

3. Maybe I can't truly "evaluate" other pre-meds, but I intuitively feel that certain pre-meds shouldn't be doctors with their current levels of maturity (though I have issues just as everyone else does). Some of them are not kind people, are overly-ambitious (more than I am!), overestimate the physician's lifestyle/salary or have their heart set on other fields. None of these traits should inherently disqualify someone from applying - it's just the ugly combination of them that I see (or get an impression of) in other pre-meds scaring me.

4. Then there's the "3.8 + ECs robo" argument. My friends have commented that I seem obsessed (and I probably am!) - my fixation with rankings is unbecoming of me. I honestly haven't had a creative thought, or creative project, in the past two years. I'm very good at following directions, working hard, and conforming to a standard though - skills that med schools select for.

5. Prestige & money are far down the list of reasons to apply to med school, but I'm afraid they're becoming more compelling. I was in it because I liked science, helping people, and research on the side (and I still believe these are the biggest reasons!), but money + prestige is becoming more persuasive.

Overall, I honestly feel kind of terrible about being pre-med , and everyone says problems get worse in medical school, residency and beyond, so yes, I'm kind of scared. Am I being unreasonable?

I don't see any flaws with your thinking, but I don't feel terrible about any of the things above. It is what it is.
 
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Doing a minor gravedig here with a tl;dr list.

1. I consider myself a compassionate person, but the process of doing ECs and preparing for medical school has made me feel more self-centered, and has forced me to recongize that many of the good things I do benefit me too

2. Unless I bomb the MCAT, I'm guessing I can get into a DO or low-tier MD school. At this point I'm not overly concerned about less ethical applicants beating me out

3. Maybe I can't truly "evaluate" other pre-meds, but I intuitively feel that certain pre-meds shouldn't be doctors with their current levels of maturity (though I have issues just as everyone else does). Some of them are not kind people, are overly-ambitious (more than I am!), overestimate the physician's lifestyle/salary or have their heart set on other fields. None of these traits should inherently disqualify someone from applying - it's just the ugly combination of them that I see (or get an impression of) in other pre-meds scaring me.

4. Then there's the "3.8 + ECs robo" argument. My friends have commented that I seem obsessed (and I probably am!) - my fixation with rankings is unbecoming of me. I honestly haven't had a creative thought, or creative project, in the past two years. I'm very good at following directions, working hard, and conforming to a standard though - skills that med schools select for.

5. Prestige & money are far down the list of reasons to apply to med school, but I'm afraid they're becoming more compelling. I was in it because I liked science, helping people, and research on the side (and I still believe these are the biggest reasons!), but money + prestige is becoming more persuasive.

Overall, I honestly feel kind of terrible about being pre-med , and everyone says problems get worse in medical school, residency and beyond, so yes, I'm kind of scared. Am I being unreasonable?
Are you being unreasonable? No, I think you're doing a decent job evaluating yourself.
 
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OP you thought you were being cynical? Today I was watching documentaries about Nazi eugenics and swearing against the stupidity of the human race.

Hey man, I have good hands, and I will do anything to give them a couple of decades in the OR. I sincerely want to save lives, but, the money and prestige probably cannot hurt. Albeit, I'll be so busy, I probably won't really be able to enjoy any of it lol.
 
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One thing i've noticed is that at all levels of training, there are very very few docs who continue volunteering. Reasons for this are probably multifactorial, but still it is a hard truth. I'll leave it at that.

@OP, regarding EC's, you should do something that's meaningful to you. As long as it fulfills that criteria and you do it for an extended period of time then what does it matter what other people think? If an AdCom were to ding your app for an EC that's "not clinical enough" or whatever reason then did you really want to be assimilated into that kind of collective?

In hindsight, fragile egos are expected in this kind of demographic just by the very nature of developmental stage and this ridiculously humbling admissions process. This is why I often question whether 18-21yo's have enough informed consent capacity to honestly say that they are willing to forego the next 10 years of their preciously dwindling youth in exchange for a lifetime dedicated to someone else's problems. Then there's the ever dwindling re-imbursement that MediCare keeps imposing across all specialties and the slow devaluation of physician authority/autonomy by managed care and MediCare. These are just a few of the things that will existentially kill a fragile ego that erroneously over-idealizes some role, material object, or what not.

PSA for all pre-meds: Go out and discover a life worth living before accepting a rewardingly prickly medical career. The indisputable truth is that no amount of money can buy back lost time and living with that regret really sucks.
 
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Having no volunteering doesn't necessarily equate to having little compassion. Most premeds wouldn't volunteer half as much as they do now if they weren't trying to get into medical school

One of the best doctors I know is an MD/PhD with a dozen publications, a research adviser to numerous grad students, an attending physician at the local med school, and administrator of one of the ICUs.

He also got into med school 20 years ago with 0 hours of volunteering. He frequently comments that his application would stand no chance today and that too much nonsense is expected of med school applicants. (But what does he know?)

So, anyway, cynicism is not limited to the premeds. Some doctors agree with you.
 
I know you might not be addressing this directly to me, and I understand what you're saying, but I honestly am not afraid of losing time (I'm about 22). I pissed away most of my teenage years failing classes, hunting for dead-end jobs and playing video games. Realizing I lost several years of my life doing nothing is worse than doing something - although I'm sure spending the rest of my 20s in med school/residency isn't pleasant either.

The time involved and time lost isn't a significant concern to me.
You and me both bud. I took 2 years off after high school, trvaled, partied hard, fell in love, got dumped, started smoking cigarettes, got kicked out/became homeless, essentially hit total rock bottom, and then worked a string of ****ty retail jobs. Needless to say, those were two very humbling years, and at this point, I grin while doing homework. My family loves me, I do not care too much for social interaction, and women will always be around. I have a very different perspective than most; I consider myself lucky and fortunate.
 
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OP must have a lot of time to analyze and observe people.

What do you think of my profile picture and what meaning can you infer from it?
 
You and me both bud. I took 2 years off after high school, trvaled, partied hard, fell in love, got dumped, started smoking cigarettes, got kicked out/became homeless, essentially hit total rock bottom, and then worked a string of ****ty retail jobs. Needless to say, those were two very humbling years, and at this point, I grin while doing homework. My family loves me, I do not care too much for social interaction, and women will always be around. I have a very different perspective than most; I consider myself lucky and fortunate.
Haha yeah, it really does give a different perspective.

For me at least, I can appreciate that my problems now are insignficant compared to my problems in the past - and I'm in (and came back to) school because I want to be.
 
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The further I get in my curriculum, the more cynical I feel about potentially becoming a doctor, and heck, going into an altruistic profession - especially when I look at what other pre-meds are doing.
ex.
*Girl who goes on medical mission trips and uploads photos of herself where she's holding poor children
*Guy with a 3.8 and a 36 who wants to be a humanities professor and is only interested in medicine for money/traveling potential
*People picking up weird hobbies only to interest adcoms (this is a thing, apparently)
*Pre-meds in research labs who only do enough work to get a good LoR and still whine about the work

I consider myself a kind, giving person too, but even I still feel like I would enjoy the prestige of becoming a doctor a little too much. :p And I'm skeptical of my own "motivations" for volunteering too!

I'm not even applying soon and I still feel very cynical. Is this normal to experience on the pre-med track? :)

Edit: followed up in later posts
THANK YOU for saying this
haha I can't even count the number of people who do everything, and I means everything from choosing the most 'med-school-like' courses so good -premed- EC's, etc, with the hopes of getting into med school
sometimes I wonder if tthey really even want to be doctors, or just med students
because these 'selfie in Africa at a clinic, where you are literally BUY your way into being a 'good person' type people only ever talk about wanting one of those things...
 
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I can certainly agree with you!!! There are times when I literally feel distracted or pressured to do certain activities. But I keep reminding myself that applying to med school is much more of a game than anything else. For a good game, you need to do whatever necessary to BE good. And yeah sometimes that includes being disappointed in the overall process, but it is what it is ...

I really hope I get a chance to reinvent myself in medical school from being a "premed" to a professional.
 
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The only person you should be comparing yourself to is yourself.

Also remember that many of your peers are outright lying about what they do and what their grades are. So F' em and follow your heart.

The further I get in my curriculum, the more cynical I feel about potentially becoming a doctor, and heck, going into an altruistic profession - especially when I look at what other pre-meds are doing.
ex.
*Girl who goes on medical mission trips and uploads photos of herself where she's holding poor children
*Guy with a 3.8 and a 36 who wants to be a humanities professor and is only interested in medicine for money/traveling potential
*People picking up weird hobbies only to interest adcoms (this is a thing, apparently)
*Pre-meds in research labs who only do enough work to get a good LoR and still whine about the work

I consider myself a kind, giving person too, but even I still feel like I would enjoy the prestige of becoming a doctor a little too much. :p And I'm skeptical of my own "motivations" for volunteering too!

I'm not even applying soon and I still feel very cynical. Is this normal to experience on the pre-med track? :)

Edit: followed up in later posts
 
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OP, I'm glad you're not worried about lost time because few people at your age(myself included when I was your age and we share a strikingly similar history too) have attained that level of maturity and honest introspection with certainty. Hold onto this when the stress builds, and remember to get help if starting to burn out.

Oh, and Texan2414's post was a great refresher. Medical training isnt all blood, sweat, and tears. Just like it's not all rainbows and sunshine that general public perceives. The truth is somewhere in the middle and learning to find a similar middle/balance point in your life is precisely the point that I am trying to emphasize from that prior thread. All too often, I've seen people tunnel-vision themselves in one direction for whatever complex developmental/societal reason and they never learn or explore balance or homeostatic states for their professional/personal lives. This can sometimes create existential(e.g. midlife) crises which have lead to tragic decisions.

No matter what people decide to do, I hope that they can have the courage to stop what they're doing, take an honest look at themselves, feel content with the balance they're trying to achieve, and seek out professional help if they cannot.




I know you might not be addressing this directly to me, and I understand what you're saying, but I honestly am not afraid of losing time (I'm about 22). I pissed away most of my teenage years failing classes, hunting for dead-end jobs and playing video games. Realizing I lost several years of my life doing nothing is worse than doing something - although I'm sure spending the rest of my 20s in med school/residency isn't pleasant either.

The time involved and time lost isn't a significant concern to me.
 
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I know you might not be addressing this directly to me, and I understand what you're saying, but I honestly am not afraid of losing time (I'm about 22). I pissed away most of my teenage years failing classes, hunting for dead-end jobs and playing video games. Realizing I lost several years of my life doing nothing is worse than doing something - although I'm sure spending the rest of my 20s in med school/residency isn't pleasant either.

The time involved and time lost isn't a significant concern to me.

x100

We're on the same boat. On a side note, I hate being this mature at my age. It's hard to make friends with other college student when your maturity is far beyond theres. I get pretty lonely
+pity+
 
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