Does foreign MD trump local DO?

[Baron Samedi]

Here's the basic setup:

If you get accepted to US MD, you go US MD.
If you don't get accepted to US MD, you go to DO
If you don't get accepted to US MD or DO, you beef up your application somehow and try again
If you're so desperate to be a doctor that you'll sacrifice your future career opportunities in order to go to med school now, you go to the Caribbean.

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[UBC2014]

Dont just throw out fake facts SGU average MCAT is 28 and this past yr got plenty of students in the low 30's From Canada

Exactly. Canadians who go carrib are the ones bringing up the stats alot of the time, because they get disqualified from Canadian schools due to the strict gpa and mcat cut-offs. And instead of applying US MD or DO, they go straight to the islands or ireland or australia out of ignorance. Marketing up here for foreign schools is huge. THey know Canadians have it tough and many go abroad instead of spending the extra time trying to get into the US.

 

[laricb]

If you read my post completely, you would have noticed that I specifically mentioned those numbers in connection with enrollment in off peak semesters (like starting in the Jan semester as opposed to the Aug semester) and also with enrollment with the caveat of completing the SGU Foundations or SGU MPH course first. I never claimed that a 20 MCAT score and a 2.5 GPA was the average for incoming SGU students. I said that they are known for going that low, under certain conditions.

Also, I don't believe the numbers posted by SGU on their site, period.

Because of the recent increase in the number of student applying to US Med Schools and many not getting accepted, some have turned to SGU. I personnally can't believe how many students with MCAT's in the low 30's are coming to SGU. Things have changed drastically in the past 15 months.

 

[deleted407021]

That guy is the legendary John Cleese. If you haven't done so, I highly recommend that you watch the "Fawlty Towers" TV show.

There is a saying "One who watches Fawlty Towers and lives till the age of 25 has lived a more enjoyable life than one who does not watch it and lives till the age of 75"

Ooooohhh, that is John Cleese. I've never seen him at that age. He looks a lot different now than he did in Monty Python or on "Farty Towels", at least imo. The latter is one of my favorites, actually.

 

[Mr.Happy]

Because of the recent increase in the number of student applying to US Med Schools and many not getting accepted, some have turned to SGU. I personnally can't believe how many students with MCAT's in the low 30's are coming to SGU. Things have changed drastically in the past 15 months.

Are you a SGU student?

Out of all the Carib schools, I think SGU is the best of the lot. They seem to have a good campus with decent facilities, knowledgeable basic science professors, and solid clinical rotations. They also have approval in all 50 states. SGU also seems to have a better reputation with residency PDs than other carib schools from what I've heard. There's definitely a big difference between SGU and a school like Windsor.

That being said, there are several aspects of SGU I don't like at all.

1. Over-enrolling students and then letting hundreds drop off during their first and second year of medical school. Doesn't SGU enroll like 900 students every year now when including all 3 semesters? This high attrition rate tells me that SGU cares more about making money then ensuring that their students become practicing physicians.

2. High tuition. SGU's tuition and high cost of living on the island makes it's total COA comparable to the more expensive private US MD/DO schools. Are the returns worth it?

3. False advertising. SGU advertises that a high percentage of grads pass the USMLE and match into residency but doesn't account for the high attrition rate or the impending residency crunch and what that will mean for the average hopeful Joe who joins SGU this year.


what are the options for SGU grads who don't match into a US residency? Can they practice in Europe or Australia? How will they pay back their huge loans?

 

[laricb]

Are you a SGU student?

Out of all the Carib schools, I think SGU is the best of the lot. They seem to have a good campus with decent facilities, knowledgeable basic science professors, and solid clinical rotations. They also have approval in all 50 states. SGU also seems to have a better reputation with residency PDs than other carib schools from what I've heard. There's definitely a big difference between SGU and a school like Windsor.

That being said, there are several aspects of SGU I don't like at all.

1. Over-enrolling students and then letting hundreds drop off during their first and second year of medical school. Doesn't SGU enroll like 900 students every year now when including all 3 semesters? This high attrition rate tells me that SGU cares more about making money then ensuring that their students become practicing physicians.

2. High tuition. SGU's tuition and high cost of living on the island makes it's total COA comparable to the more expensive private US MD/DO schools. Are the returns worth it?

3. False advertising. SGU advertises that a high percentage of grads pass the USMLE and match into residency but doesn't account for the high attrition rate or the impending residency crunch and what that will mean for the average hopeful Joe who joins SGU this year.


what are the options for SGU grads who don't match into a US residency? Can they practice in Europe or Australia? How will they pay back their huge loans?

I am a SGU Student about to finish my second Year. All I can say is I received a great education here on the island these past 2 yrs and I see the students you talk of not making it past the first semester and jumping back on a plane. These students come in with decent numbers but cant get accustomed to the island and fall behind right away. SGU will not let you continue past the first semester if you fail just one class. This is why you might here of the high attriction rates.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I am a SGU Student about to finish my second Year. All I can say is I received a great education here on the island these past 2 yrs and I see the students you talk of not making it past the first semester and jumping back on a plane. These students come in with decent numbers but cant get accustomed to the island and fall behind right away. SGU will not let you continue past the first semester if you fail just one class. This is why you might here of the high attriction rates.

The high attrition is a problem. Also come back and tell us how match goes

 

[laricb]

The high attrition is a problem. Also come back and tell us how match goes

I don't know if you're being sarcastic. But ill be glad to post my match in 2 yrs.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I don't know if you're being sarcastic. But ill be glad to post my match in 2 yrs.

I'm serious. Tell us how it goes. What are you looking for? Why did you choose sgu?

 

[Baron Samedi]

All I can say is I received a great education here on the island these past 2 yr

How would you know?

 

[laricb]

I'm serious. Tell us how it goes. What are you looking for? Why did you choose sgu?

Right now I'm leaning towards Neonatology, but that could change after going thru clinicals. I chose SGU because I really believed I needed to be isolated from the rest of my world. I literally spent 15 hrs a day stuck in my room studying. Then I would go to bed and get up the next morning and do the same thing. Really had no distractions here.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

Right now I'm leaning towards Neonatology, but that could change after going thru clinicals. I choose SGU because I really believed I needed to be isolated from the rest of my world. I literally spent 15 hrs a day stuck in my room studying. Then I would go to bed and get up the next morning and do the same thing. Really had no distractions here.

You didn't have a mainland acceptance though did you?

And neonatology is cool. I have spent a lot of time in the nicu myself

 

[darkjedi]

Right now I'm leaning towards Neonatology, but that could change after going thru clinicals. I chose SGU because I really believed I needed to be isolated from the rest of my world. I literally spent 15 hrs a day stuck in my room studying. Then I would go to bed and get up the next morning and do the same thing. Really had no distractions here.

distractions are what keep you sane in med school

 

[laricb]

You didn't have a mainland acceptance though did you?

And neonatology is cool. I have spent a lot of time in the nicu myself

I had 1 DO chose NYCOM,to close to home. My story is a little strange I graduated with a Biomedical engineering degree. I only decided to become a doctor in my last 6 months of undergrad. Biomedical engineering does a job on your GPA and I really wasnt ready for the MCAT. I just wanted to get done after 4 yrs of undergrad. I am now finishing my first 2 yrs with honors in the top 20% of my class, not to toot my horn, but I know I could have made it at a US Med School. If I could do it again I would have prepared better and taken the MCAT again.

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I had 1 DO chose NYCOM,to close to home. My story is a little strange I graduated with a Biomedical engineering degree. I only decided to become a doctor in my last 6 months of undergrad. Biomedical engineering does a job on your GPA and I really wasnt ready for the MCAT. I just wanted to get done after 4 yrs of undergrad. I am now finishing my first 2 yrs with honors in the top 20% of my class, not to toot my horn, but I know I could have made it at a US Med School. If I could do it again I would have prepared better and taken the MCAT again.

You had a good DO school acceptance. Would have been a lot easier for you if you went that route. A lot more doors open. That's crazy you turned it down

 

[laricb]

You had a good DO school acceptance. Would have been a lot easier for you if you went that route. A lot more doors open. That's crazy you turned it down

I hope your wrong, but I believe ill end up somewhere....

 

[DoctorSynthesis]

I hope your wrong, but I believe ill end up somewhere....

I hope I'm wrong too. Keep killing it and hope for the best. Its hard but you should try and transfer. Its possible after second year and since you're doing well you should atleast try.

 

[BrooklynBulls]

Here's the basic setup:

If you get accepted to US MD, you go US MD.
If you don't get accepted to US MD, you go to DO
If you don't get accepted to US MD or DO, you beef up your application somehow and try again
If you're so desperate to be a doctor that you'll sacrifice your future career opportunities in order to go to med school now, you go to the Caribbean.

I myself am a 4th year OMS, and I know so many really smart, really terrific foreign students from Ross, AUC, SGU, and AUA, many of whom are struggling to get interviews in competitive fields. The difference between a DO and foreign MD really shines through when you're talking about anything remotely competitive. Anesthesia, EM, GS, Radiology, even PM&R, the DO's I know have had so many more interview offers, and often times from much better programs. I myself have done quite well so far in my Radiology pursuits, but know a few SGU students who outdid me considerably on the Steps, with half the interviews I got, and mostly ones I'd consider weaker or in undesirable locations.

Only if you stand no chance at a DO school, and only if you are SURE you want primary care, should you even consider a foreign school. Even Israeli or Australian schools, it can be truly difficult. My heart goes out people who are already in this sub-optimal situation, but it's important that people understand what a bad idea it is for the vast majority.

 

[67552931811]

What happened to happy?

 

[Doctor Bob]

do > img
neither are very impressive

Having worked with students and graduates at many of the allopathic and osteopathic schools, I find it has little to do with the school and more to do with the person. There isn't any medical school whose graduates are consistently impressive.

 

[Imnotfromjersey]

Having worked with students and graduates at many of the allopathic and osteopathic schools, I find it has little to do with the school and more to do with the person. There isn't any medical school whose graduates are consistently impressive.

yale, harvard, hopkins, columbia, stanford, mayo? I'm sure 99% of their students are impressive. Especially vs any VCOM or KCUMB student.

 

[deejaymd]

Us DO is leagues better than Caribbean MD. Just look at boards, match rate, etc...

 

[deejaymd]

yale, harvard, hopkins, columbia, stanford, mayo? I'm sure 99% of their students are impressive. Especially vs any VCOM or KCUMB student.

Impressive is relative. Sure maybe they can take a test, but I've had some terrible doctors with academically impressive credentials.

 

[Doug Underhill]

SDN has a DO bias, being founded by a DO and having many accomplished DOs on the board. However, reality has a DO bias, at least as far as statistics are concerned.

Just DO it

 

[deejaymd]

do > img
neither are very impressive

Some DO schools have very similar entrance requirements to MD schools and they share the same residencies now.

 

[malick1]

Some DO schools have very similar entrance requirements to MD schools and they share the same residencies now.

Agreed

 

[Imnotfromjersey]

Impressive is relative. Sure maybe they can take a test, but I've had some terrible doctors with academically impressive credentials.

I'll disagree. Those schools dont just look for better test scores. They try to pick for students that are the pinnacle of smart, studious, dedicated, and socially involved.

 

[deejaymd]

I'll disagree. Those schools dont just look for better test scores. They try to pick for students that are the pinnacle of smart, studious, dedicated, and socially involved.

You should tell that to the number of med students/doctors/residents I had at Penn when I attended there for undergrad.

 

[Imnotfromjersey]

You should tell that to the number of med students/doctors/residents I had at Penn when I attended there for undergrad.

lets agree to disagree.

 

[malick1]

lets agree to disagree. I'll keep going to MD, you can be happy with DO's, and some people are happy with NP's.

Where did NP came from ? lets not turn this one into lets get a CNA derailed post

 

[AlteredScale]

yale, harvard, hopkins, columbia, stanford, mayo? I'm sure 99% of their students are impressive. Especially vs any VCOM or KCUMB student.

Is their some rationale behind why you picked those schools as your example of "the lesser student"???

Also you seem to be rooting MD but your previous post history show you are going to a DO program (Touro NY and NSUCOM acceptances)??? Im confused.

 

[premedbrah]

*Ya there's actually a hierarchy of schools that everyone goes by to determine how they will treat you (D.O. graduates of course treated much worse than Caribbean/foreign grads). Typically before you begin residency, a panel decides how they are going to accommodate you so be prepared. Only the most prestigious of graduates (top 10 and some MD/PhD's) get the best benefits. So unless you want to disrespected and bullied, I would strongly consider your options. I for one advocate for the lower tier schools, foreign grads and DO's, #YesAllOsteopaths #YesAllForeignMDs




*note: this post is completely satirical and should not be taken seriously.

 

[Doctor Bob]

yale, harvard, hopkins, columbia, stanford, mayo? I'm sure 99% of their students are impressive.

Very book smart, yes. But unless they stay at their home institutions often they come in with an unwarranted superiority complex.

I can come up with a lot of students/residents from those programs who were just downright unteachable. But there are also a lot who were very good and will make good doctors. And I can say the same for pretty much every other school out there.

Every med student is their own anecdote. And the plural of anecdotes is not data.

 

[Transcis]

Considering after all of these brilliant stars entered the real world, and we still rank 28th in medicine, I hope the next class is a better class of people. And, this generation is about 20 pounds heavier per age than the last one, so they are less likely to be beautiful. Also, they eat more prescription drugs like amphetamines and anti-depressants = Prozac like drugs, so I suspect they will be making a few more and other types of fundamental errors. Sounds like a good year for the lawyers to eat these self infatuated liars up for lunch.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

Considering after all of these brilliant stars entered the real world, and we still rank 28th in medicine, I hope the next class is a better class of people. And, this generation is about 20 pounds heavier per age than the last one, so they are less likely to be beautiful. Also, they eat more prescription drugs like amphetamines and anti-depressants = Prozac like drugs, so I suspect they will be making a few more and other types of fundamental errors. Sounds like a good year for the lawyers to eat these self infatuated liars up for lunch.

Quality necro post, Lazarus.

 

[Lawpy]

Considering after all of these brilliant stars entered the real world, and we still rank 28th in medicine, I hope the next class is a better class of people. And, this generation is about 20 pounds heavier per age than the last one, so they are less likely to be beautiful. Also, they eat more prescription drugs like amphetamines and anti-depressants = Prozac like drugs, so I suspect they will be making a few more and other types of fundamental errors. Sounds like a good year for the lawyers to eat these self infatuated liars up for lunch.

 

[Transcis]

Quality necro post, Lazarus.

I thought you were mourning the loss of your Navy buddies that never happened. If you use your real name it is easier to indicate the lack of truth in your Miniature Gulf War claims, where less than 1% of all deployed people were in combat MOSs. But, I am flattered you have found me worth following around, but in typical cowardly fashion as most are afraid to say who they are.

 

[Matthew9Thirtyfive]

I thought you were mourning the loss of your Navy buddies that never happened. If you use your real name it is easier to indicate the lack of truth in your Miniature Gulf War claims, where less than 1% of all deployed people were in combat MOSs. But, I am flattered you have found me worth following around, but in typical cowardly fashion as most are afraid to say who they are.

You realize that to be verified military (that little Navy icon under my username), I had to send an email from my official military address right? Also this war is not called the Gulf War. Before you insult someone who has actually done real service in his life, maybe you should do something with yours besides pick arguments on the internet. Myself and the other vets on this board have willingly gone into harm's way for this country. I have brothers and sisters who have died for this country in the sandbox, C5F, and at home. But you wouldn't know anything about real sacrifice. Your disgusting attitude and disrespectful posts have been reported.

 

[doctorbob23]

I swear I visualized Donald trump as a foreign MD then realized what you were asking.

And depends on your definition of "trump". Licensed doc is a doc to most patients