Does it matter when you do your core rotations?

[schwasted589]

At our school, you have 6 months of core rotations for third year and then another 6 months of electives. We don't get to choose the sequence rotations for our core.

The problem is that there's a few sites that are immensely popular with students; to make it more likely that you'll rotate there, most people will be willing to do their core rotations 2nd semester and do 1st semester electives. I've heard mixed opinions about how it's terrible if you have to do core 2nd semester and it should be avoided at all costs...but then other people say that it really doesn't matter and it's not really advantageous.

Can someone that's older/wiser explain? Kind of clueless how it would work with step II studying and whatever.

Thank you

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[TraumaLlamaMD]

I did some of my bigger cores - medicine, surgery, peds - in a row at the end of 3rd year just because of the way my schedule worked out. It meant that I had less inpatient experience on my earlier electives than some other students who had done these, but you catch up. I thought I enjoyed medicine and surgery more, actually, because I had already learned how to present and felt a lot more confident in talking to patients and asking to do cool things like procedures. It's a tradeoff, but especially if you have little control over it, I wouldn't stress about it. You'll make it work either way.

You'll take step 2 as a 4th year, so I don't think your 3rd year schedule will really make a difference there. Either way, at some point you will probably need to review all your 3rd year basics anyway.

 

[operaman]

Like most things, the answer is that it varies between students. I know there is some literature showing that shelf scores, especially surgery, tend to increase as they are taken later in the year. I'm not sure if there's a similar finding with others, but it wouldn't surprise me. That said, some schools take this into account and have different cutoffs for honors/hp/p as the year progresses. You will definitely get better clinically as the year progresses, but people will be somewhat more lenient during your first couple rotations.

The big factor is how strong you are as a student. If you're at or near the top of your class and generally confident in your ability to do well clinically, then it really doesn't matter at all because you will probably do well regardless. If you're more middle of the pack and think you might need some time to get settled and learn the ropes 3rd year, then maybe you could benefit from taking tougher rotations a little later. I think the only real piece of advice that applies no matter what would be to put off a rotation in your desired field until you've had a couple others first so you can shine more.

 

[schwasted589]

I did some of my bigger cores - medicine, surgery, peds - in a row at the end of 3rd year just because of the way my schedule worked out. It meant that I had less inpatient experience on my earlier electives than some other students who had done these, but you catch up. I thought I enjoyed medicine and surgery more, actually, because I had already learned how to present and felt a lot more confident in talking to patients and asking to do cool things like procedures. It's a tradeoff, but especially if you have little control over it, I wouldn't stress about it. You'll make it work either way.

You'll take step 2 as a 4th year, so I don't think your 3rd year schedule will really make a difference there. Either way, at some point you will probably need to review all your 3rd year basics anyway.

\

My biggest concerns are:
1) hospitals won't let me do my elective rotations (which I'd have to do first) if I don't have my core ones done already --> i've heard this happening to some people in the class above mine
2) I'm going to waste my time doing elective rotations on stuff that I may not even end up liking; what if I end up doing IM and LOVING it? It'll be in the last 1/2 the year when i've already spent 1/2 the first part doing electives in a specialty I'm not longer interested in.

The step 2 thing you mentioned is a surprise, because most of the complaints about 2nd core is that there isn't enough time to study for it and you have to balance taking your shelf exam with step 2 studying at the same time.

 

[cabinbuilder]

You shouldn't have that many electives 3rd year, maybe 1-2. There are much more elective slots 4th year and by that time you should have a better idea of what appeals to you to put more time in.

 

[MiaMia14]

Honestly, I think being core 1 is important. Or it at least made things easier for me. If you are going to be doing your electives and selectives at your core site it is less of a problem, but if you are planning on trying to find rotations in other areas having had the core makes that slightly easier (although still not easy). For example an ortho surgery rotation wanted me to have had my core surgery rotation in order to rotate with them because they know I know how to handle myself in the OR and how to scrub, etc.

I also think it helped to have an idea of what I wanted to do when I set up my selectives and electives for the Spring because I could Taylor my rotations more to what I wanted (and I changed my mind after doing core as most students do). It also makes setting rotations up much easier when you have a little bit of an idea what you are doing and have been through some rotations than to try and cold call places before you have even started 3rd year.

I also disagree with taking step 2 in 4th year. I took it in May of 3rd year and honestly I wish I would have taken it in February after I finished my core. Depending on what rotations you do you lose a lot of that core knowledge the longer you are away from it. I also took the PE in February after I finished my Family med rotation and I am so glad I did. I know some people who found out they failed and then had to scramble to fine a spot in time for interviews/the match. Taking step 2 early has been HUGE for quality of life 4th year. I had my score back in June and could relax a month before I started doing auditions. I also have really enjoyed not having any sort of test looming over me during application season.

Obviously it's up to you and you have to figure out what's more important to you because it's hard to get your favorite location (especially if it's one of the more desirable ones) or your core request. I ended up at my number 2 core location, but had core 1 and I am so glad it ended up that way.

 

[DrMaximus]

Honestly, I think being core 1 is important. Or it at least made things easier for me. If you are going to be doing your electives and selectives at your core site it is less of a problem, but if you are planning on trying to find rotations in other areas having had the core makes that slightly easier (although still not easy). For example an ortho surgery rotation wanted me to have had my core surgery rotation in order to rotate with them because they know I know how to handle myself in the OR and how to scrub, etc.

I also think it helped to have an idea of what I wanted to do when I set up my selectives and electives for the Spring because I could Taylor my rotations more to what I wanted (and I changed my mind after doing core as most students do). It also makes setting rotations up much easier when you have a little bit of an idea what you are doing and have been through some rotations than to try and cold call places before you have even started 3rd year.

I also disagree with taking step 2 in 4th year. I took it in May of 3rd year and honestly I wish I would have taken it in February after I finished my core. Depending on what rotations you do you lose a lot of that core knowledge the longer you are away from it. I also took the PE in February after I finished my Family med rotation and I am so glad I did. I know some people who found out they failed and then had to scramble to fine a spot in time for interviews/the match. Taking step 2 early has been HUGE for quality of life 4th year. I had my score back in June and could relax a month before I started doing auditions. I also have really enjoyed not having any sort of test looming over me during application season.

Obviously it's up to you and you have to figure out what's more important to you because it's hard to get your favorite location (especially if it's one of the more desirable ones) or your core request. I ended up at my number 2 core location, but had core 1 and I am so glad it ended up that way.

There's a lot of good advice in this post. However, I will throw my two cents in as well.

I'm core 2 currently and I haven't minded it at all. It's given me a nice break between Step 1 and studying for COMAT exams and Step 2. I thought I would hate that, but I've enjoyed it. I also plan to just ride my core rotations into Step 2 in July so I won't be far out of core when I take it. I'm taking the PE similar time to MiaMia, but it's actually right after my first month of the IM rotation (after already having family a few months prior). I feel like it's definitely doable and hasn't hindered me much if any. I don't really disagree with anything said above, just that I don't think you should stress about which core to get.

 

[dfib slim]

.

 

[schwasted589]

I know they say the rotation lottery is random but do you think class rank has any input?

This is what I'm wondering as well. There's rumors (I understand they're probably false) that some people (based on rank/student government positions) get their top choice.

 

[schwasted589]

There's a lot of good advice in this post. However, I will throw my two cents in as well.

I'm core 2 currently and I haven't minded it at all. It's given me a nice break between Step 1 and studying for COMAT exams and Step 2. I thought I would hate that, but I've enjoyed it. I also plan to just ride my core rotations into Step 2 in July so I won't be far out of core when I take it. I'm taking the PE similar time to MiaMia, but it's actually right after my first month of the IM rotation (after already having family a few months prior). I feel like it's definitely doable and hasn't hindered me much if any. I don't really disagree with anything said above, just that I don't think you should stress about which core to get.

Thanks! Stupid question - you take Step 2 after your cores, correct? does the school have a deadline by when you have to have that taken by? If not, then isn't core 1 vs core 2 mostly just deciding whether you want COMATs / Step 2 earlier in the year vs later in the year?

 

[DrMaximus]

I know they say the rotation lottery is random but do you think class rank has any input?

I think it's pretty much a true lottery. However, I will say that acting like a fool in the first two years isn't advised. PM if you have more questions on this.

Thanks! Stupid question - you take Step 2 after your cores, correct? does the school have a deadline by when you have to have that taken by? If not, then isn't core 1 vs core 2 mostly just deciding whether you want COMATs / Step 2 earlier in the year vs later in the year?

That's pretty much correct. Though some people do defer their Step 2 until after interviews 4th year. In that case, I think it matters even less. Some people like to have the general medicine base before specialities.

 

[MiaMia14]

Unless you think you are going to fail without the extra time I think it is a REALLY bad idea to not take step 2 until after interviews (also not sure if you are even allowed to because I'm pretty sure our deadline was sometime in October). If you DO fail you are screwed because you have to have the scores before rank lists are in and getting a spot, taking the exam, and getting scores back takes a while. I also have interviews up until the middle of January and that would definitely not be enough time to take and get the scored exam back regardless of how you do (even if the school would let you do it). Also, most people are doing primarily rotations in whatever specialty they are going into in the fall and believe me you lose A LOT of information when you are only doing 1 thing for so long (unless you want to go into IM or FM or something). It seems like you are looking for answers that go along with what you believe (which is that core doesn't matter) because that is how you are wanting to make your lottery list. Like I said, half the class gets core 2 and does just fine. We have given you pros and cons of both and so now you have to decide what is more important to you...location or core and it seems like you have.

 

[DrMaximus]

Unless you think you are going to fail without the extra time I think it is a REALLY bad idea to not take step 2 until after interviews (also not sure if you are even allowed to because I'm pretty sure our deadline was sometime in October). If you DO fail you are screwed because you have to have the scores before rank lists are in and getting a spot, taking the exam, and getting scores back takes a while. I also have interviews up until the middle of January and that would definitely not be enough time to take and get the scored exam back regardless of how you do (even if the school would let you do it). Also, most people are doing primarily rotations in whatever specialty they are going into in the fall and believe me you lose A LOT of information when you are only doing 1 thing for so long (unless you want to go into IM or FM or something). It seems like you are looking for answers that go along with what you believe (which is that core doesn't matter) because that is how you are wanting to make your lottery list. Like I said, half the class gets core 2 and does just fine. We have given you pros and cons of both and so now you have to decide what is more important to you...location or core and it seems like you have.

As far as the step goes, I agree with all of this. I was certainly not advocating to do that. I think you need to take step 2 right after you finish core. The information is freshest in your head and you've been studying for 5-6 months already. I'm also not advocating for core 2 over core 1. I just think that it doesn't matter much especially if your heart is set on a location.

 

[schwasted589]

I think it's pretty much a true lottery. However, I will say that acting like a fool in the first two years isn't advised. PM if you have more questions on this.



That's pretty much correct. Though some people do defer their Step 2 until after interviews 4th year. In that case, I think it matters even less. Some people like to have the general medicine base before specialities.

Ohh okay. Thanks!

Unless you think you are going to fail without the extra time I think it is a REALLY bad idea to not take step 2 until after interviews (also not sure if you are even allowed to because I'm pretty sure our deadline was sometime in October). If you DO fail you are screwed because you have to have the scores before rank lists are in and getting a spot, taking the exam, and getting scores back takes a while. I also have interviews up until the middle of January and that would definitely not be enough time to take and get the scored exam back regardless of how you do (even if the school would let you do it). Also, most people are doing primarily rotations in whatever specialty they are going into in the fall and believe me you lose A LOT of information when you are only doing 1 thing for so long (unless you want to go into IM or FM or something). It seems like you are looking for answers that go along with what you believe (which is that core doesn't matter) because that is how you are wanting to make your lottery list. Like I said, half the class gets core 2 and does just fine. We have given you pros and cons of both and so now you have to decide what is more important to you...location or core and it seems like you have.

I don't know if this was referring to me (I'm assuming it was because I'm the OP) but that's not my intention at all. In fact, I was under the impression that core order DID matter but I'm clueless about a lot of the clinical education setup (our school doesn't really explain much unfortunately) so I was asking a follow up to what DrMaximus was saying. For me, making sure I'm following the best interview/residency match timeline is >>>> location. Either way, i'm not near home with the cores so I'm not dead set on anything. And the points about taking step 2 (which I hadn't really thought about too much tbh--again, something not emphasized at our school) makes sense and I don't want to put myself in that situation.

 

[MiaMia14]

I wasn't trying to be antagonistic, I was just giving my opinion. I think we go to the same school (you, me, and DrMax) so I think both of our opinions are good ones and are just that, opinions. There are a lot of things that go into making the decision and in the end honestly it probably doesn't matter all that much since we will all get a residency and graduate. If there was that big of a difference half the class would be obviously behind during interviews/match season and I don't think that is the case. For me, because I wanted to be in a certain area for selectives and electives (away from my core site and not one others had previously gone to) it was much easier for me since I had core 1. If you want to stay around your core site or if someone has previously forged the way wherever you want to do your selectives and electives I think it will be easier.

I know the decision seems like a really huge one and one that will dramatically affect your life but it really won't. In the end if you work hard and do audition rotations in whatever field you decide you will be fine regardless of where you went for core or if you were core 1 or core 2. I remember feeling like it was this huuuuge thing during second year and now I realize I got out of it exactly what I put into it and I think that is the case wherever you end up. What really matters is doing rotations at places that have residency programs at some point so you learn how to present patients and perform within the hierarchy for auditions.

I'm sorry if you felt like I was being hostile. That wasn't my intention. I hope things work out the way you want but it won't be the end of the world if it doesn't I promise. If you have any more questions let me know

 

[MiaMia14]

Oh, also...if we do go to the same school there is very little communication about what you should be doing/advice on residency, the match...really anything related to the last 2 years of school a after you go out on rotations. I really honestly feel like after the first 2 years they were just like, "ok! We'll see you at graduation!" And we had to figure everything out by talking to upper levels/other students, and researching on the internet. So in terms of the school emphasizing anything besides minimum requirements and deadlines you won't get much from them. I know me and many of my classmates are always around on sdn and on Facebook and are definitely willing to help if you have questions about timeline, applying to residency, eras, etc. when the time comes.

 

[schwasted589]

I wasn't trying to be antagonistic, I was just giving my opinion. I think we go to the same school (you, me, and DrMax) so I think both of our opinions are good ones and are just that, opinions. There are a lot of things that go into making the decision and in the end honestly it probably doesn't matter all that much since we will all get a residency and graduate. If there was that big of a difference half the class would be obviously behind during interviews/match season and I don't think that is the case. For me, because I wanted to be in a certain area for selectives and electives (away from my core site and not one others had previously gone to) it was much easier for me since I had core 1. If you want to stay around your core site or if someone has previously forged the way wherever you want to do your selectives and electives I think it will be easier.

I know the decision seems like a really huge one and one that will dramatically affect your life but it really won't. In the end if you work hard and do audition rotations in whatever field you decide you will be fine regardless of where you went for core or if you were core 1 or core 2. I remember feeling like it was this huuuuge thing during second year and now I realize I got out of it exactly what I put into it and I think that is the case wherever you end up. What really matters is doing rotations at places that have residency programs at some point so you learn how to present patients and perform within the hierarchy for auditions.

I'm sorry if you felt like I was being hostile. That wasn't my intention. I hope things work out the way you want but it won't be the end of the world if it doesn't I promise. If you have any more questions let me know

Oh, also...if we do go to the same school there is very little communication about what you should be doing/advice on residency, the match...really anything related to the last 2 years of school a after you go out on rotations. I really honestly feel like after the first 2 years they were just like, "ok! We'll see you at graduation!" And we had to figure everything out by talking to upper levels/other students, and researching on the internet. So in terms of the school emphasizing anything besides minimum requirements and deadlines you won't get much from them. I know me and many of my classmates are always around on sdn and on Facebook and are definitely willing to help if you have questions about timeline, applying to residency, eras, etc. when the time comes.

haha yeah, I think the 3 of us are at the same place, as well. No problem, I just didn't want you to think I was disregarding your all's opinion! You and DrMaximus have been super helpful.
Yep, definitely seems like a life changing decision. With the entire 2nd year class freaking out and then crazy rumors about sites/how badly certain groups get screwed over, it's slightly chaotic here haha. It probably won't matter much in the grand scheme of things. Like I said, I'm not too attached to any one spot -- even for residency -- so the core site location probably won't matter much in regards to my proximity to family, friends, etc. It's pretty much just whatever is the best site in general.

The lack of communication is getting frustrating. We've had to go out of our way and talk to people just so we can get some questions answered. Now I know what the older students are so disgruntled about. It's like the last two years don't exist for the administration, unfortunately. If it wasn't for people on here, I'd have absolutely no idea what was going to happen so thank you!

 

[MiaMia14]

Honestly I'm not sure about the 3rd years, but I haven't heard many really horrible complaints about our core sites from anyone in my class. I don't know about the really new ones, but I went to one of the new ones that we got for our year and I think it served it's purpose. Remember med students will complain endlessly to anyone that will listen about anything and everything. Are all the core sites super awesome with no issues at all? Nope. But I think on the whole the situation isn't as dire as some of the students would have you think.

 

[DrMaximus]

I got the same vibe about all being at the same place. We all used the exact same terminology and schedule set ups! Haha. Anyways, I'm glad we could help. Like Mia was saying, communication is horrid so feel free to PM if anything ever freaks you out or confuses you. I'll help all I can. I'm still trying to get everything figured out myself.

 

[schwasted589]

Honestly I'm not sure about the 3rd years, but I haven't heard many really horrible complaints about our core sites from anyone in my class. I don't know about the really new ones, but I went to one of the new ones that we got for our year and I think it served it's purpose. Remember med students will complain endlessly to anyone that will listen about anything and everything. Are all the core sites super awesome with no issues at all? Nope. But I think on the whole the situation isn't as dire as some of the students would have you think.

I got the same vibe about all being at the same place. We all used the exact same terminology and schedule set ups! Haha. Anyways, I'm glad we could help. Like Mia was saying, communication is horrid so feel free to PM if anything ever freaks you out or confuses you. I'll help all I can. I'm still trying to get everything figured out myself.

you guys are awesome. It's nice to know it's not all doom and gloom! thanks again