Does your university's prestige matter?

[Evisju7]

The "name" of your school. Does it matter to med school?

I go to a decent, but by no means top, university for my state. It's known for international students, research, and engineering- but I haven't heard much about pre-med studies. The benefits of it for me is that it's less expensive than other major schools in my state and it's in my city. My city also happens to have a massive medical center and several med schools.. which I think would be helpful.

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[Goro]

As a feeder school, yes. But generically, no.

The "name" of your school. Does it matter to med school?

I go to a decent, but by no means top, university for my state. It's known for international students, research, and engineering- but I haven't heard much about pre-med studies. The benefits of it for me is that it's less expensive than other major schools in my state and it's in my city. My city also happens to have a massive medical center and several med schools.. which I think would be helpful.

 

[allantois]

Purdue?

 

[listener23]

Purdue?

Purdue is in Indiana... Theres only 1 MD there and 1 DO

 

[KanyeWes]

I would pick a school that has major grade inflation. I had people ding me for not having a perfect 4.0, even though I went to a top 50 school and my major is ranked top 10 in the nation. It is literally not possible to get a 4.0 because they make us take one class p/f.

That was frustrating to deal with.

 

[darkjedi]

No it doesn't make a huge difference unless you're talking HYPSM. Your GPA, MCAT and ECs are significantly more important than the school you went to. If you don't have those, it won't matter where you graduated from.

 

[Mad Jack]

Your GPA matters way more than where you earned it unless you went to a handful of schools.

 

[Evisju7]

Purdue?

I wish. Much farther south.. Houston (university of). I live 10 minutes away from the Texas med center.

 

[Evisju7]

I've always wanted to switch over to UT (University of Texas). But it's more expensive and I already have a nice little network started here. I just worried that I would look like a slacker. Thanks for the input everyone

 

[DermViser]

The "name" of your school. Does it matter to med school?

I go to a decent, but by no means top, university for my state. It's known for international students, research, and engineering- but I haven't heard much about pre-med studies. The benefits of it for me is that it's less expensive than other major schools in my state and it's in my city. My city also happens to have a massive medical center and several med schools.. which I think would be helpful.

Depends on the school but usually not. Based on your undergrad, if they've placed people at medical schools in your state, that means they won't discriminate against your university based on name. The actual stats is then up to you. Since you at right close to the med schools in question, it's good to network with those schools during your time in college.

 

[WUPM]

"No it doesn't make a huge difference unless you're talking HYPSM" I think there are a lot more schools than just the big 5 that will give you a benefit. Being in the range of Hopkins, Cornell, UChicago, Northwest, etc (not tip top schools but still great) will get you further than UofState in a lot of cases because similar GPAs will be treated differently based on notoriety for tough competition and grade deflation.

 

[Time Table]

"No it doesn't make a huge difference unless you're talking HYPSM" I think there are a lot more schools than just the big 5 that will give you a benefit. Being in the range of Hopkins, Cornell, UChicago, Northwest, etc (not tip top schools but still great) will get you further than UofState in a lot of cases because similar GPAs will be treated differently based on notoriety for tough competition and grade deflation.

Similar GPA would then cancel out the grade deflation. Regardless, a 3.9 from U of State is going to get in over 3.6 from Hopkins/Cornell, etc. given similar MCAT, and ECs. The grade deflation rarely makes a difference when comparing similar GPAs as well if everything else is similar. In fact, I would bet that it's safer to assume that your PS and secondaries would give you the edge over school name.

 

[Lamel]

It matters most for the top private schools, and mainly if you come from an Ivy or comparable school. Obviously GPA + MCAT are way more important. But GPA+MCAT+Prestige is an even better combo (at least slightly). For public schools it doesn't matter much at all. These are obviously generalized statements.

Source (Pg 7): https://www.aamc.org/students/download/267622/data/mcatstudentselectionguide.pdf

 

[Narmerguy]

The school you go to will not hold you back from getting into any school in the country.

 

[QofQuimica]

What we cared about was less the school name itself as opposed to its selectivity. Top academic preparedness points went to people coming from a selective program who had done very well. So attending your state U and graduating from its selective honors program with a 3.8+ GPA would still be a big plus. Even if we hadn't ever heard of a school, we could still look up how selective it was and gauge the applicant's performance.

 

[Lawpy]

The "name" of your school. Does it matter to med school?

I go to a decent, but by no means top, university for my state. It's known for international students, research, and engineering- but I haven't heard much about pre-med studies. The benefits of it for me is that it's less expensive than other major schools in my state and it's in my city. My city also happens to have a massive medical center and several med schools.. which I think would be helpful.

It matters some for top schools (HYPSM and the like) but is by no means important for rest

 

[orangeman25]

No it doesn't make a huge difference unless you're talking HYPSM. Your GPA, MCAT and ECs are significantly more important than the school you went to. If you don't have those, it won't matter where you graduated from.

What does HYPSM stand for?

 

[Euxox]

Harvard, Yale, Princeton, Stanford, MIT

 

[Ace-Co-A]

It matters some for top schools (HYPSM and the like) but is by no means important for rest

I don't know. Medical schools boast about the pedigree of their incoming classes, which suggests that they care about the undergrad schools of their class. I think it does matter for most schools.

The difficulty is in determining how much of the bias for students from prestigious schools is self-selection (i.e., these students are smarter, harder-working, better at putting together applications) versus simple bias (i.e., admissions officers believing that, between two comparable applicants, the one from the more prestigious school is better.)

Also, I think this thread is going to devolve in short order.

 

[bambam92]

Not really, this prestige stuff really only matters in call of duty man

 

[Euxox]

The amount of weight given to prestige seems to vary a lot from med school to med school.

When I was at my Rutgers/NJMS interview, it seemed like all the other interviewees were from Rutgers or a lesser known local public school like TCNJ, Temple, or Montclair. I was the odd one out as a private school student. For NJMS at least, it was geography that mattered, and not prestige. Ohio State didn't seem to place a lot of value on prestige either. While OSU wasn't as regionally biased as Rutgers, most of the interviewees there were from state colleges.

But when I was interviewing at med schools like Hopkins, Columbia, Cornell, Penn, Wash U, Pitt, Virginia, Vanderbilt, and NYU, the pool of interviewees seemed to be very, very heavily biased towards big name schools. In my experience, if there were fifteen interviewees there that day, maybe three would be from HYPSM, three from non-HYPSM top ten schools (Chicago, Columbia, Penn, Duke, etc.), five from schools in the top 25 (Cornell, Wash U, JHU, Berkeley, UCLA, etc.), two or three from miscellaneous other prestigious colleges (George Tech, NYU, etc.), and one or two from a solid, but less prestigious school (Arizona State, North Carolina State, etc.) At one of my interviews, four out of ten interviewees were from HYPSM.

As Ace-Co-A said, it's hard to say how much of this is due to self-selection. I'm inclined to think that prestige counts for something, but not at every medical school. And where it does matter, it definitely accounts for much less than GPA or MCAT.

 

[WUPM]

" Regardless, a 3.9 from U of State is going to get in over 3.6 from Hopkins/Cornell, etc. "

I have a hard time believing this one. If two applicants have similar, average-ish MCATs I think the 3.6 from Hopkins would help out a lot and be treated as much more impressive than 3.9 UState. Many of the people who get straight A's at state schools would have a hard time even passing the courses at places like Hopkins, and adcoms know it. One GPA says "I'm in the top quarter out of a group of people in the 98th+ national percentile" while the other says "I'm at the top out of an average group".

 

[listener23]

" Regardless, a 3.9 from U of State is going to get in over 3.6 from Hopkins/Cornell, etc. "

I have a hard time believing this one. If two applicants have similar, average-ish MCATs I think the 3.6 from Hopkins would help out a lot and be treated as much more impressive than 3.9 UState. Many of the people who get straight A's at state schools would have a hard time even passing the courses at places like Hopkins, and adcoms know it. One GPA says "I'm in the top quarter out of a group of people in the 98th+ national percentile" while the other says "I'm at the top out of an average group".

No. Everything you said is wrong.

 

[listener23]

If someone takes gen chem at u of state and gets an A theres no evidence to support that he wouldn't get an A at Harvard. If the student gets a B then you might be able to make an argument.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

" Regardless, a 3.9 from U of State is going to get in over 3.6 from Hopkins/Cornell, etc. "

I have a hard time believing this one. If two applicants have similar, average-ish MCATs I think the 3.6 from Hopkins would help out a lot and be treated as much more impressive than 3.9 UState.

Many AdComms on here deny this actually.

Many of the people who get straight A's at state schools would have a hard time even passing the courses at places like Hopkins, and adcoms know it. One GPA says "I'm in the top quarter out of a group of people in the 98th+ national percentile" while the other says "I'm at the top out of an average group".

I don't know why you think this.

 

[Euxox]

" Regardless, a 3.9 from U of State is going to get in over 3.6 from Hopkins/Cornell, etc. "

I have a hard time believing this one. If two applicants have similar, average-ish MCATs I think the 3.6 from Hopkins would help out a lot and be treated as much more impressive than 3.9 UState. Many of the people who get straight A's at state schools would have a hard time even passing the courses at places like Hopkins, and adcoms know it. One GPA says "I'm in the top quarter out of a group of people in the 98th+ national percentile" while the other says "I'm at the top out of an average group".

If the MCAT scores are similar, the student with the 3.9 will beat the student with the 3.6 every time. Questions of grade deflation only come up if the student with the lower GPA has an MCAT score that is significantly better than that of the other student. Also, a 0.3 GPA difference is quite a large gap. Even if the student with a 3.6 had a good MCAT score, it might not be enough to overcome the lower GPA at some med schools.

 

[gyngyn]

Prestige can cut both ways. Applicants with so-so stats from "prestigious" undergrads are in an awkward position. Plenty of medical schools will presume that they are safety schools for these applicants and don't interview them. The "prestigious" medical schools don't interview them for low stats. They can get shut out at least as much as someone from a state school unless they have an exceptionally strong strategy.

 

[radkat101]

It seems you go to UH, which means your priority is to go to a Texas med school for the cheap in state Texas tuition, which means that It doesn't matter AT ALL where you went to undergrad. Just do well in your classes. I went to UH myself and found it to be incredibly grade deflating (it's actually on some list as one of the most deflating in the country). It is a great place to be pre-med for it's location but the pre med committee is absolutely terrible. I don't know which direction you live, but UHCL further south has a really good pre-med committee and smaller, more interesting classes where you can get more one on one with professors for letters. I spent some time there after the application cycle and completely regretted going to UH main.

You can PM me if you want more details.

 

[Heplayer92]

Check your school's career center for details.

At my school, the average matriculant for medical school has a cGPA of 3.63 and sGPA of 3.54. This is quite a bit below the average of matriculants nationwide. Thus, "prestige" or GPA deflation may be part of the formula.

 

[DielsAlder]

Check your school's career center for details.

At my school, the average matriculant for medical school has a cGPA of 3.63 and sGPA of 3.54. This is quite a bit below the average of matriculants nationwide. Thus, "prestige" or GPA deflation may be part of the formula.

Agreed, the average GPA for matriculants from my undergrad was between 3.5-3.6, yet the average MCAT was at least a 32/33. I knew people with these "average" stats who had no problem getting into decent med schools.

 

[tantacles]

I want to repeat a question that was asked at every college interview as well as its answer. The question was:

"Is it better to get an A in an honors class or a B in an AP class?"

The college counselors invariably replied:

"Ideally, what we like to see is A's in AP classes."

Don't be fooled by the fact that the question was asked by a college recruiter; the same rules still apply.

Would med schools prefer a 4.0 from a state school? Or would they prefer a 3.6 from Harvard?

The answer? They'd prefer a 4.0 from Harvard.

The solution for applicants? Do your best on every exam, get the best grades you possibly can, get the best MCAT score you can, and try not to overanalyze your fitness based on your undergraduate institution. There isn't a magic formula that schools use to figure out who is better; some adcoms spend as much time thinking about this question as people on sdn, and they still haven't come to a uniform answer, nor will they ever.

 

[slz1900]

Yes, for some schools it matters. Go to mdapps and see who gets an invite to Harvard or Stanford, and then look at who gets an invite to Michigan. It's pretty clear that some schools really value pedigree and coming from a lower ranked undergrad can put you at a disadvantage.

 

[Lamel]

Yes, for some schools it matters. Go to mdapps and see who gets an invite to Harvard or Stanford, and then look at who gets an invite to Michigan. It's pretty clear that some schools really value pedigree and coming from a lower ranked undergrad can put you at a disadvantage.

UMichigan is probably one of the schools that really values undergraduate selectivity. Just look at their application tracker on their website from last year.

 

[slz1900]

UMichigan is probably one of the schools that really values undergraduate selectivity. Just look at their application tracker on their website from last year.

Actually I was using them as an example of a school that seems more willing to take a chance on applicants coming from lower ranked undergrads, although I remember the admissions director saying that they look at your undergrad when evaluating your application. Harvard and Stanford seem like they don't interview as many people from non-prestigious schools even though all top10s probably get a pretty similar applicant pool.

 

[radkat101]

I really think the only time undergrad matters is if your ability to handle med school coursework is questionable. If you went to an undergrad known for being challenging they might cut you some slack. Other than this there's just no way schools are going to take students with lower GPA's and MCATs just because they went to a prestigious undergrad. Med schools like their stats. They want everyone to associate them with high avgs because it makes them look good. They aren't going to do much sacrificing in this area just to be nice to the kids who chose to spend a bunch of money to go to prestigious undergrads. It's unfortunate for these people, but there are plenty of lists out there profiling the incoming classes for medical schools and where the students all came from. These lists speak for themselves.

 

[kthxbai]

" Regardless, a 3.9 from U of State is going to get in over 3.6 from Hopkins/Cornell, etc. "

I have a hard time believing this one. If two applicants have similar, average-ish MCATs I think the 3.6 from Hopkins would help out a lot and be treated as much more impressive than 3.9 UState. Many of the people who get straight A's at state schools would have a hard time even passing the courses at places like Hopkins, and adcoms know it. One GPA says "I'm in the top quarter out of a group of people in the 98th+ national percentile" while the other says "I'm at the top out of an average group".

Homie please.

Pull your head out of your ass and join the rest of us in Reality Land. A 3.8 from a state institution would undoubtedly suggest this student can handle any coursework from any Fahncy school. Besides, many people go to state schools because of money issues and not because they lack the intellectual aptitude for success.

I went to my UofState because I got a full ride. I also got 3.83 - all As in chem/biochem classes too. Your comment makes me puke in my mouth a little bit.

 

[FFH]

I think as long as you can convince the adcom that you've done the best given your circumstances, regardless if you are in a state school or in an Ivy League, you'll be fine.

 

[Euxox]

For example, getting the best grades at Columbia means getting A+ which counts as 4.33.... Which means sometimes you'll have to surpass the expectations of the professors to convince them to hand out that sweet baby plus... In the end, my GPA on AMCAS is a 4.0 but if one looks carefully I have over 50% A+. I don't know if the adcom will notice that, but when they do, it'll be one of the evidence that

...Yeah, I don't think this is what most people are referring to when they talk about grade deflation. #4.0problems

 

[FFH]

...Yeah, I don't think this is what most people are referring to when they talk about grade deflation. #4.0problems

I didn't meant to use my personal anecdotal to support grade deflation. as a matter of fact, I can't see what argument it supports beside my ego. Here they went.

 

[Ace-Co-A]

...Yeah, I don't think this is what most people are referring to when they talk about grade deflation. #4.0problems

#Euxoxdagger

 

[Euxox]

I didn't meant to use my personal anecdotal to support grade deflation. as a matter of fact, I can't see what argument it supports beside my ego. Here they went.

You actually had me going for a second. 8/10

 

[Aerus]

" Regardless, a 3.9 from U of State is going to get in over 3.6 from Hopkins/Cornell, etc. "

I have a hard time believing this one. If two applicants have similar, average-ish MCATs I think the 3.6 from Hopkins would help out a lot and be treated as much more impressive than 3.9 UState. Many of the people who get straight A's at state schools would have a hard time even passing the courses at places like Hopkins, and adcoms know it. One GPA says "I'm in the top quarter out of a group of people in the 98th+ national percentile" while the other says "I'm at the top out of an average group".

I can't even imagine what kind of illogical assumptions you made to reach this conclusion...

 

[FFH]

I've known kids with 4.0s from state schools struggling to get 3.5 at my school. But I've also known kids who did just as fine after they transferred. The point being, it's hard to say about a 3.9 from a state school, if there isn't of any evidence that they might not have as good a GPA if they are in a better school, then why on earth the adcom will use the name of the school to really hold it against the applicant to the degree that they want to accept a 3.6 from Hopkins? Especially the incoming students' average GPA matters to medical schools' ranking as how I heard.

 

[FFH]

You actually had me going for a second. 8/10

Hey I wasn't even trying. I was only arguing that all you need to do is to show that you've excelled in your environment and you have a record of aiming for the best. Nothing to do with grade inflation/deflation. However, there is a possibility that you are saying that my argument supported the fact that grades are inflating. I have to disagree. It's not a common thing to be give out, some graduating seniors never heard of A+, some just don't believe in the existence of A+.

 

[ThisCouldBeYou]

Prestige can cut both ways. Applicants with so-so stats from "prestigious" undergrads are in an awkward position. Plenty of medical schools will presume that they are safety schools for these applicants and don't interview them. The "prestigious" medical schools don't interview them for low stats. They can get shut out at least as much as someone from a state school unless they have an exceptionally strong strategy.

Yep, that's me. Great MCAT, but so-so gpa. Let's hope these schools read my PS and want to interview me. I'll have to check back to let you know how my year-of-the-med-school-application turns out.

 

[darkjedi]

Yep, that's me. Great MCAT, but so-so gpa. Let's hope these schools read my PS and want to interview me. I'll have to check back to let you know how my year-of-the-med-school-application turns out.

letters of interest can go a long way in situations like this, provided you are genuinely interested in the school.

 

[gyngyn]

letters of interest can go a long way in situations like this, provided you are genuinely interested in the school.

They are so over-used that their current value is quite small, I'm afraid. We got hundreds last cycle.

 

[FFH]

They are so over-used that their current value is quite small, I'm afraid. We got hundreds last cycle.

How to write an effective one if I may ask?

 

[gyngyn]

How to write an effective one then in your opinion?

I read them all and I can't say that any of them was more effective since they were all variations on the same theme.
It isn't the content that has made them valueless, it's their ubiquity.

 

[darkjedi]

They are so over-used that their current value is quite small, I'm afraid. We got hundreds last cycle.

I can imagine the volume can be pretty overwhelming to the adcom. That being said, from an applicant standpoint I feel like doing something is still better than doing nothing, even if the net benefit is minimal. Knowing how quickly some people can be screened, I think getting that LOI in the door, at least for the marginal candidate, can turn a 'meh' into an 'ok maybe'.