Doing poorly in post-bacc...recommendations?

[charlieb]

No longer doing poorly. I managed.

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[LoLCareerGoals]

Why get a cop degree instead of taking real coursework during AF years?
Awesome MCAT despite crap grades? I imagine it happens to people who go to super tough schools with grade deflation, but I doubt that's what's happening here.
I wouldn't say it is all over yet, but there isn't really any solution outside the obvious: take fewer courses next sem, maybe even retake something (esp. if you are considering DO). You got a GI bill (I assume?) and still young, so take your time.

 

[charlieb]

No I hear what you're saying. My first duty station ended up being overseas (4yrs) where the only science courses to take were biology courses (which is why I have my minor in biology and maxed out on the available courses). I didn't want to prolong getting a degree...so I settled and rushed through it to actually have a degree than none at all.

Thanks for the suggestions. I'm leaning towards a smaller course load. I'm trying to get the ground truth on retaking the courses...but I was essentially told by my VA coordinator that it wasn't an option unless I failed, dropped the course, or got a grade that prevented me from going to the 2nd series of whatever course it was (i.e. a D). Paying out of pocket is an option though.

I was calculating out my GPA by AMCAS standards and my understanding was that even if you retake a class and get a better grade, both grades are calculated, not the higher of the two. If the second grade is significantly higher (i.e. an A over a previous C), does it have much impact overall?

 

[Leonid Rogozov]

I'm sitting at a C in every class...Calc-based physics, O-Chem, and Gen-chem....


...BUT, knowing the stakes, I approached this post-bacc the exact opposite. I went from never reading a textbook to knocking out the chapters by day. I went from never studying to actually putting in the recommended 3 hrs out of class for every hr in class. I've taken advantage of office hours. I've met weekly with a tutor. And it seems every effort has been met with failure because I am just not producing the results I need....

... I withdrew from Calculus because I was doing AWFUL so that takes Physics 2 out of the equation next semester too....

Could the hope of doing awesome on the MCAT offset a lower GPA? Everything I've read, people usually use the post-bacc to raise GPA...and in my case, my GPA is plummeting. Recommendations, advice, constructive criticism all would be appreciated. I need words from people who KNOW the stakes and understand the requirements.

I was in the exact same position as you. I started a post-bacc a year ago and although I didn't do as poorly as you did (hovering at 3.3ish) it wasn't stellar either. I left chunks in the quote that I feel like are glaring recipes for failure.

First up: O-Chem and G-Chem concurrently, bad idea. It doesn't matter how smart, determined, capable or whatever you are if you take these classes concurrently you're in for a very rough hall. I'm in O-Chem right now and am actually doing quite well but that would not have been possible if I didn't master the concepts in G-Chem like VSEPR, bonding orbitals etc.

Second up: How good are your study skills? Believe it or not simply 'spending time' studying is worthless without the proper study skills. A lot of people spend time just going over material and thinking to themselves 'Oh, I get it okay' (I'm also guilty of this) without going through the mind numbing and displeasing method of actually practicing things without looking at answers and repeating it over and over again until they actually understand it. I'm not saying this to imply that you're unintelligent or anything remotely like that but looking at your major (crim) and comparing it to mine (psych) if you're anything like me you probably spent most of your former time simply going over concepts like conditioning theory or behaviorism and memorizing them to try and rectify them in exams. In the sciences it doesn't cut it. You have to think of studying for these subjects more like sharpening a skill set through practice as opposed to simply 'studying' and 'understanding' the concepts. E.g. it's easy to say 'an alcohol and aldehyde will go through a condensation reaction and form an ester' but can you actually draw up the mechanism, the electron motion and all of the steps in proper order without getting a single step, resonance structure or electron motion out of place?

 

[sagain]

So...here's my background information. 26 years old, completed a B.S. in Criminal Justice while serving in the Air Force (separated a year ago) and finally gathered the confidence to pursue my dream of becoming a physician. I moved home with my parents, I don't work, and I'm attending school for a post-bacc to complete the science requirements (full year of physics, full year of gen chem, full year of o-chem, all with labs). Silly me thought I could actually take all three this year. Awful plan. I HAD a 3.5 GPA coming into the program...that's not where I'm at anymore.

I'm sitting at a C in every class...Calc-based physics, O-Chem, and Gen-chem. The only part of this post-bacc that I'm actually doing well in are the labs where I have a B, A, A respectively. Hindsight is 20-20 obviously. I realize now that I should have actually taken into account that I haven't done true science/math courses in 8 yrs (since I graduated high school). I just had so much confidence in my skills. I've always been an A student, advanced courses, honors, the works. And now...I'm completely and utterly discouraged. I have always been the type of student that worked off of adrenaline...never really studying and letting it all come naturally. BUT, knowing the stakes, I approached this post-bacc the exact opposite. I went from never reading a textbook to knocking out the chapters by day. I went from never studying to actually putting in the recommended 3 hrs out of class for every hr in class. I've taken advantage of office hours. I've met weekly with a tutor. And it seems every effort has been met with failure because I am just not producing the results I need.

Right now, I'm not sure what to do. I KNOW medicine is where I want and need to be. It's not about asking if I'm sure about that because that's about the only thing I'm positive about. It's so discouraging to actually put in the work this time around and not get positive results when I once was able to cheat putting the time in still ace it. This semester ends in a month...and I'm just trying to get some advice. The only reason I pushed forward with all of these classes is because I wanted to knock out the requirements to have the knowledge base for the MCAT (to take Summer 2013), and apply for the 2014 school year with Med School. But...these grades are cutting it. I'm on a waiver to take Gen Chem/O-Chem concurrently, but that's probably going to get tossed out of the window for next term. I withdrew from Calculus because I was doing AWFUL so that takes Physics 2 out of the equation next semester too.

Could the hope of doing awesome on the MCAT offset a lower GPA? Everything I've read, people usually use the post-bacc to raise GPA...and in my case, my GPA is plummeting. Recommendations, advice, constructive criticism all would be appreciated. I need words from people who KNOW the stakes and understand the requirements.

I am not trying to be discouraging just being realistic

This is a marathon not a sprint. You need to have a clear plan based on your abilities and be fully prepared to start the plan which means you to need to build very strong foundations to start a postbacc program. If you don’t have it you are not ready…give yourself sometime until you are there.

 

[Gfliptastic]

The road to med school is a journey of introspection. Finding out about yourself and your abilities.

I can mirror what has already been said. I was considered gifted in high school, college was pretty easy, even tho w/o getting into my life story I was far from stellar (my dad died when I was a sophomore, and let's say my coping mechanism wasn't proper).

The road to where I am has been a pride-sucking ego-deflating pathway. I'm not isolated. Every one of my classmates has gone thru the same thing as a result of med school. That said, MS1 is a nice intro into med school. I studied more than I ever studied before, and made 3.0 in school...tho the work, if you asked me, was 4.0 worthy lol. MS2...HOLY intellectually inadequacies. Patho & pharm will break any student not tough enough and w/o enough gumption to fight thru it. Still I worked harder and never got anything lower than a C.

The Step 1? You want to talk about just throwing everything you know against the wall and hoping enough of it sticks?! My better-than-average score is not quite what I felt was commiserate w/ the amount of effort I really put in studying for it. So much for gifted. Face it. By the time you get to the med school stage, I think EVERYONE is gifted lol.

Point of all of this is to say, no matter how confident you are in yourself, it's WILL get obliterated should you reach med school! Your course load is honorable at a post-bacc level, but if you can't find more in you to get those grades up, it's not going to get any easier.

Dig in deep, and get those grades up. If you can't, consider your alternatives. Good luck!

 

[Solus]

I definitely think taking o-chem and g-chem together is a recipe for disaster unless your a Walter White genius. And if that's the case, just sell crystal-meth.

I'm not sure how well you can do on the MCAT if you are getting C's.

I take it you've already done bio. I don't think it's over, and it may be worth starting over, but why the rush to get into the 2014 application cycle? Your going to do MD/DO for four years, residency for 3+ years, and then whatever your spec is for the rest of your life. Given that, what's another year?

Do fewer things and do them well.

 

[kami333]

Like sagain said, it's a marathon not a sprint.

I did something similar to what you are doing, in my case it was for fixing my GPA, I took 2 semesters of gen chem, 2 of orgo, 2 of physics, and a couple higher level bio classes (biochem, cell, etc). I started out with just taking gen chem 1 my first semester (it had been 3years since I graduated), then added a bio class in addition to gen chem 2 the next semester, and finally a full load (orgo, physics, cell, and an anthro class for fun) the following fall. It'll take 2-3years and put you past your 2014 matriculation plan but a bad GPA is the one thing you can never recover from, unless you move to Texas.

Also I'd consider taking tri-based physics instead of calculus-based, if you are comfortable with calculus then the calc based can be easier (less equations to memorize) but if your calculus is weak then it's one less thing to worry about.

 

[berkeleydoc]

I was in the exact same position as you. I started a post-bacc a year ago and although I didn't do as poorly as you did (hovering at 3.3ish) it wasn't stellar either. I left chunks in the quote that I feel like are glaring recipes for failure.

First up: O-Chem and G-Chem concurrently, bad idea. It doesn't matter how smart, determined, capable or whatever you are if you take these classes concurrently you're in for a very rough hall. I'm in O-Chem right now and am actually doing quite well but that would not have been possible if I didn't master the concepts in G-Chem like VSEPR, bonding orbitals etc.

Second up: How good are your study skills? Believe it or not simply 'spending time' studying is worthless without the proper study skills. A lot of people spend time just going over material and thinking to themselves 'Oh, I get it okay' (I'm also guilty of this) without going through the mind numbing and displeasing method of actually practicing things without looking at answers and repeating it over and over again until they actually understand it. I'm not saying this to imply that you're unintelligent or anything remotely like that but looking at your major (crim) and comparing it to mine (psych) if you're anything like me you probably spent most of your former time simply going over concepts like conditioning theory or behaviorism and memorizing them to try and rectify them in exams. In the sciences it doesn't cut it. You have to think of studying for these subjects more like sharpening a skill set through practice as opposed to simply 'studying' and 'understanding' the concepts. E.g. it's easy to say 'an alcohol and aldehyde will go through a condensation reaction and form an ester' but can you actually draw up the mechanism, the electron motion and all of the steps in proper order without getting a single step, resonance structure or electron motion out of place?

You've very sound advice, I agree with all of the above. I'm a student who did quite well in my undergraduate studies as an Econ Major and double minor in Arabic and City Planning at Berkeley. Let's just say it wasn't a cakewalk, no Ivy league grade inflation. I walked out solid, resulting in a pretty cushy job in financial consulting. Within 6 months, I decided to quit , and pursue my underlying interest preventive health care. I had a deep knowledge in sports physiology and nutrition as an avid competitive powerlifter.

Suddenly that week quitting I met an individual who supported an idea my friend and I had of starting a sports nutrition company and invested. A year later, while formulating supplements and shadowing an endocrinologist I decided that I truly wanted to be a physician and let go most of my ownership in a company I created.

I started the Harvard Extension Pre-Health program shortly afterwards. I was greatly involved in both student government and many pre-health events, volunteering. Most importantly I worked my ass off, and guess what? My first exam, a dog awful grade. I had never thought I could achieve such a low grade. This trend continued particularly when I worked harder and more seriously towards course materials and exam prep. With numerous sub par grades and random occurrences of curve setting grades, I was at a point where I knew numerous Sub B/B- grades, C+ on the reg and a couple of Ws that my chances of US/ANYWHERE Medical School Acceptance were slim to none. I left Harvard and currently take classes at UCLA extension and am assisting in Androgel/TRT research for UCLA BIOMED. Guess what? I'm excelling in my research and in my business, yet once again failing to get A's in basic pre-med courses.

The thing is, for me it's a matter of confidence, which I lost after a streak of poor grades. I would more than anything want to be a Diabetes Specialist, Endocrinologist. However I sense a lack of focus and identifying my problems and weaknesses. I put in 10-12 hours a sometimes and choke up during exams. If you really want it, pursue it no matter how long it takes. But you must make up for past(habitual) shortcomings by first realizing what you could change to make hard worked hours more efficient and how to really test yourself by performing without solutions or at a point where the material is mastered, where you are capable of explaining your rationale to others with conviction and ease.

Sciences are quite different in the way one approaches potential success. I've been, as some would say a masochist in my commitment to any sort of work. I grind hard, but hours are meaningless if you spend them reading text and simply following lecture notes. You need to test yourself and be comfortable enough, where it is not "memorized" like most social science/humanities courses. You need to understand why and how things occur, take into account "what if.....factor" which is every problem in competitive programs. Master material and if you lack that ability such as myself, learn the hardway, regardless of how uncomfortable you may feel, to study with a motivated group. You will pickup on positive study habits and also may feel more motivated by wanting to compete and provide during group study sessions.

Holy **** long rant,

Good luck with your endeavors, if you really want it, retake courses/pursue a SMP, get some research under your belt. It's never to late, if you learn from the past and correct the things getting in your way given you work hard. Spend time to learn yourself and be critical with yourself, identifying your problem areas.

 

[HealthE]

You've very sound advice, I agree with all of the above. I'm a student who did quite well in my undergraduate studies as an Econ Major and double minor in Arabic and City Planning at Berkeley. Let's just say it wasn't a cakewalk, no Ivy league grade inflation. I walked out solid, resulting in a pretty cushy job in financial consulting. Within 6 months, I decided to quit , and pursue my underlying interest preventive health care. I had a deep knowledge in sports physiology and nutrition as an avid competitive powerlifter.

Suddenly that week quitting I met an individual who supported an idea my friend and I had of starting a sports nutrition company and invested. A year later, while formulating supplements and shadowing an endocrinologist I decided that I truly wanted to be a physician and let go most of my ownership in a company I created.

I started the Harvard Extension Pre-Health program shortly afterwards. I was greatly involved in both student government and many pre-health events, volunteering. Most importantly I worked my ass off, and guess what? My first exam, a dog awful grade. I had never thought I could achieve such a low grade. This trend continued particularly when I worked harder and more seriously towards course materials and exam prep. With numerous sub par grades and random occurrences of curve setting grades, I was at a point where I knew numerous Sub B/B- grades, C+ on the reg and a couple of Ws that my chances of US/ANYWHERE Medical School Acceptance were slim to none. I left Harvard and currently take classes at UCLA extension and am assisting in Androgel/TRT research for UCLA BIOMED. Guess what? I'm excelling in my research and in my business, yet once again failing to get A's in basic pre-med courses.

The thing is, for me it's a matter of confidence, which I lost after a streak of poor grades. I would more than anything want to be a Diabetes Specialist, Endocrinologist. However I sense a lack of focus and identifying my problems and weaknesses. I put in 10-12 hours a sometimes and choke up during exams. If you really want it, pursue it no matter how long it takes. But you must make up for past(habitual) shortcomings by first realizing what you could change to make hard worked hours more efficient and how to really test yourself by performing without solutions or at a point where the material is mastered, where you are capable of explaining your rationale to others with conviction and ease.

Sciences are quite different in the way one approaches potential success. I've been, as some would say a masochist in my commitment to any sort of work. I grind hard, but hours are meaningless if you spend them reading text and simply following lecture notes. You need to test yourself and be comfortable enough, where it is not "memorized" like most social science/humanities courses. You need to understand why and how things occur, take into account "what if.....factor" which is every problem in competitive programs. Master material and if you lack that ability such as myself, learn the hardway, regardless of how uncomfortable you may feel, to study with a motivated group. You will pickup on positive study habits and also may feel more motivated by wanting to compete and provide during group study sessions.

Holy **** long rant,

Good luck with your endeavors, if you really want it, retake courses/pursue a SMP, get some research under your belt. It's never to late, if you learn from the past and correct the things getting in your way given you work hard. Spend time to learn yourself and be critical with yourself, identifying your problem areas.

Not to be a drug pusher. I was suffering from test taking anxiety for with this premed coursework. I got on some meds and I feel so much more relaxed and less tense than before while preparing for exams.

 

[Back 5]

Unfortunately OP, you bit off way more than you could chew. Instead of ordering a steak medium-rare at a restaurant, you decided it would be better to go and bite the hide of a cow.

I hadn't taken any UG coursework in 10 years when I did my postbacc. I was working full time, 50+ hours a week and I knew I needed to dip my toes into the water before I jumped right in, so I took 1 course my first semester. Earned an A. Took 2 courses the following semester, earned 2 A's. Took 3 courses the following semester and earned 3 A's. Sure, this ended up taking 2 semesters longer because I decided to take it slow at first, but I had to make sure I earned those A's, it was a successful post-bacc.

Your situation isn't dead in the water. However, you are going to have a lot of work ahead of you to make up for this little debacle. If you can pull the courses up to a B, that might be okay...I don't know if C's or W's would look worse on your transcript though. Check with your department and find out if you can retake these courses again at a later date?

I wish I had more advice other than you need to step back and take it slow(er) until you are adequately prepared, so I will let the more SDN vets offer up their opinion.

 

[Textbookversion]

Maybe you just aren't cut out academically for medical school. It should be fairly trivial to take all those classes at once. I did physics / o chem / biology all at once. Not a big deal.

There are plenty of other careers in healthcare that are rewarding. I know that isn't what you want to hear, but sometimes the truth hurts. I'd really like to be a surgeon but I can't be for reasons beyond my control. So instead I'm going to be an internist.

There are a ton of interesting things short of becoming a physician you could look into.

 

[Goro]

Suggest that you realize that there is a message here. Not everyone is capable of making it into medcial school. Poor performance in a post-bac is a kiss of death for any interviewee I see. High MCATs do not make up for poor grades, either. Medical school is a LOT harder than anything in undergrad, and so now you're taking what, a low-medium course load? And still struggling?

Doing well in the lab classes say that you should look for a clinical lab job; try research. You should also look into nursing or PA.

I'm sitting at a C in every class...Calc-based physics, O-Chem, and Gen-chem. The only part of this post-bacc that I'm actually doing well in are the labs where I have a B, A, A respectively. Hindsight is 20-20 obviously. I realize now that I should have actually taken into account that I haven't done true science/math courses in 8 yrs (since I graduated high school). I just had so much confidence in my skills. I've always been an A student, advanced courses, honors, the works. And now...I'm completely and utterly discouraged. I have always been the type of student that worked off of adrenaline...never really studying and letting it all come naturally. BUT, knowing the stakes, I approached this post-bacc the exact opposite. I went from never reading a textbook to knocking out the chapters by day. I went from never studying to actually putting in the recommended 3 hrs out of class for every hr in class. I've taken advantage of office hours. I've met weekly with a tutor. And it seems every effort has been met with failure because I am just not producing the results I need.

Right now, I'm not sure what to do. I KNOW medicine is where I want and need to be. It's not about asking if I'm sure about that because that's about the only thing I'm positive about. It's so discouraging to actually put in the work this time around and not get positive results when I once was able to cheat putting the time in still ace it. This semester ends in a month...and I'm just trying to get some advice. The only reason I pushed forward with all of these classes is because I wanted to knock out the requirements to have the knowledge base for the MCAT (to take Summer 2013), and apply for the 2014 school year with Med School. But...these grades are cutting it. I'm on a waiver to take Gen Chem/O-Chem concurrently, but that's probably going to get tossed out of the window for next term. I withdrew from Calculus because I was doing AWFUL so that takes Physics 2 out of the equation next semester too.

Could the hope of doing awesome on the MCAT offset a lower GPA? Everything I've read, people usually use the post-bacc to raise GPA...and in my case, my GPA is plummeting. Recommendations, advice, constructive criticism all would be appreciated. I need words from people who KNOW the stakes and understand the requirements.