Doris Duke/CRTP/HHMI/Sarnoff Thread

[FutureDoc4]

So I am considering doing one of the year long research programs (Cloisters etc.), which one of these programs require you to live in their housing? (what do if you don't want to because you have a significant other that would be coming with you? Do they provide housing if you are bringing your wife/husband?) Thanks in advance for any insight people have.

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[RxnMan]

...which one of these programs require you to live in their housing? (what do if you don't want to because you have a significant other that would be coming with you? Do they provide housing if you are bringing your wife/husband?) Thanks in advance for any insight people have.

The Cloisters and CRTP programs require that you live in their on-campus housing. In their brochures they state that couples get priority for their single-bedroom units. DDCRF and HHMI Research Fellows are all attached to whatever institution they are working at, but they don't have required housing.

For those applying and have an SO, I suggest starting the conversation early, giving them as much information as you have, and being open to what they want.

 

[HarveyCushing]

99% done with the app essay. Just need to finalize my opening hook.

Letter-writers lined up. One is ready to submit, one is writing, and the other...I have to hammer on him...

I am also ~99% complete with my personal statement. I have started filling out the application for HHMI and have my letter writers lined up and they are working on the letters.

 

[ellia08]

So I am considering doing one of the year long research programs (Cloisters etc.), which one of these programs require you to live in their housing? (what do if you don't want to because you have a significant other that would be coming with you? Do they provide housing if you are bringing your wife/husband?) Thanks in advance for any insight people have.

Ditto what RxnMan said Re: Cloisters, CRTP, DDCRF and HHMI. The Sarnoff Fellowship also lets you choose your own housing.

 

[DwyaneWade]

I am about done with my personal statement but with a month to go am debating having someone read it again. On the one hand, I do not want to get crushed, on the other hand it beats rejection any day.

2 out 3 LORs in for Cloisters, everything finished for Doris Duke and CRTP except the dean's letter and putting together each school's package.

 

[RxnMan]

I hit the submit button on CRTP yesterday. One LOR has already been added (NIH uses an email system).

I was planning on putting together a "how to" on preparing an application. Anyone who wants to add their thoughts RE: DDCRF and HHMI, please PM me and I'll put together a new post for the FAQ.

 

[RxnMan]

I hit the submit button on CRTP yesterday. One LOR has already been added (NIH uses an email system)...

Correction: 2 LORs already in!

 

[HarveyCushing]

I hit the submit button on CRTP yesterday. One LOR has already been added (NIH uses an email system).

I was planning on putting together a "how to" on preparing an application. Anyone who wants to add their thoughts RE: DDCRF and HHMI, please PM me and I'll put together a new post for the FAQ.

I could add some thoughts once everything is submitted.

I'm curious which Doris Duke programs people are applying to?

 

[DwyaneWade]

I hit the submit button on CRTP yesterday. One LOR has already been added (NIH uses an email system).

I was planning on putting together a "how to" on preparing an application. Anyone who wants to add their thoughts RE: DDCRF and HHMI, please PM me and I'll put together a new post for the FAQ.

I will send you what I have as soon I as get to the weekend

I could add some thoughts once everything is submitted.

I'm curious which Doris Duke programs people are applying to?

UNC, Iowa, and UTSW

 

[DoctorDolittle]

For anyone who has already submitted their CRTP application, did you use up the entire/close to the entire 10000 character limit for your PS?

 

[RxnMan]

For anyone who has already submitted their CRTP application, did you use up the entire/close to the entire 10000 character limit for your PS?

I used ~6k characters.

 

[socmob]

I think I'm going to finish around 7.25-7.5K but my goal was around 6K. I didn't think I'd even make that, to be honest. 10,000 characters is way way too much.

 

[HarveyCushing]

Sarnoff= done
7 DD programs= done
HHMI-NIH= done
HHMI-MSTP= just a few more things to do with the proposal before I submit

How is everyone else doing?

 

[socmob]

Wow, 7 DD apps? Doesn't each require its own research proposal? I am in awe.
...finalizing cloisters & crtp apps...

 

[HarveyCushing]

Wow, 7 DD apps? Doesn't each require its own research proposal? I am in awe.
...finalizing cloisters & crtp apps...

Luckily not every DD I applied to requires a research proposal. Of the ones I applied to only 2 required a proposal, and 1 program said it would help my application by showing I was strongly interested in their program rather than just "checking off" their program on the application. However some of the other programs encouraged me to include a letter specifically to their program about possible projects/mentors that I might be interested in if I was accepted. So I wrote one of those for 3 of the other programs. This is mostly because the personal statement goes to every program so you don't really have a chance to say why one particular programs stands out to you.

Let me say that I am happy I started looking into programs this past summer. I basically spent my whole winter break working on apps, research proposals, abstracts, personal statement...etc.

 

[HarveyCushing]

Do you guys have any "number 1" programs that you hope you get accepted into, or will you wait until after the interview to get a feel for the program? I have 2 places that I theoretically like the most on paper, but guess my opinion might change if I get interviews at multiple programs.

 

[RxnMan]

...I basically spent my whole winter break working on apps, research proposals, abstracts, personal statement...etc.

Same for me, only I spent all of OB/Gyn writing essays and getting LORs.

 

[RxnMan]

Do you guys have any "number 1" programs that you hope you get accepted into, or will you wait until after the interview to get a feel for the program? I have 2 places that I theoretically like the most on paper, but guess my opinion might change if I get interviews at multiple programs.

I only applied to the CRTP, so that would be both my last and first choice. Most of the DDs were in high cost-of-living cities or where I didn't want to live. I didn't apply to HHMI because it didn't have the right research focus and I wasn't interested in their 'enrichment activities.'

The CRTP was the only program that had the classes, structure, city, housing, clinical focus, and research opportunities I wanted.

 

[HarveyCushing]

I only applied to the CRTP, so that would be both my last and first choice. Most of the DDs were in high cost-of-living cities or where I didn't want to live. I didn't apply to HHMI because it didn't have the right research focus and I wasn't interested in their 'enrichment activities.'

The CRTP was the only program that had the classes, structure, city, housing, clinical focus, and research opportunities I wanted.

Have you considered the NIH Year off Program? It has an open deadline:
http://www.training.nih.gov/student/pre-irta/previewinterim.asp

 

[Gabujabu]

Submitted the Cloisters app today and finishing up the HHMI Medical Fellows application right now. These applications are quite long!

 

[TheMightyAngus]

Not sure if this has been discussed before. Has anyone considered doing a postdoc after 4th year as opposed to one of the conventional fellowships in between 3rd and 4th year?

I applied for the HHMI this year, and my PI presented me with this option. Postdoc seems to pay more though I'm not sure whether it would be a disadvantage to apply to residency as an MD grad. Any thoughts?

 

[HarveyCushing]

Not sure if this has been discussed before. Has anyone considered doing a postdoc after 4th year as opposed to one of the conventional fellowships in between 3rd and 4th year?

I applied for the HHMI this year, and my PI presented me with this option. Postdoc seems to pay more though I'm not sure whether it would be a disadvantage to apply to residency as an MD grad. Any thoughts?

That could work. But what about the issue of taking a year off between what should be the period that you focus on your clinical training? Not sure how big of an issue it will be with all the momentum you build during your 3rd and 4th year and then take a year off and work in a lab and try to get back into your clinical training in residency? It might be worth talking to some people who have gone this route and ask their opinion. Or you could wait for after residency/fellowship to do one?

 

[Rocket3004]

apart from the hhmi program, is anyone aware of other programs/funding opportunities that let you do a 1 year stint at a place of your choosing?

 

[HarveyCushing]

apart from the hhmi program, is anyone aware of other programs/funding opportunities that let you do a 1 year stint at a place of your choosing?

Sarnoff and AHA are two that I know of.

 

[Rocket3004]

Sarnoff and AHA are two that I know of.

Ah yes, but I those are cardiovascular specific I believe.

Anything non specific, or if it were specific, in cancer research?

 

[HarveyCushing]

Ah yes, but I those are cardiovascular specific I believe.

Anything non specific, or if it were specific, in cancer research?

The CDC also has a 1yr fellowship. Not sure of anything specific to cancer. American Cancer Society probably has one, but most likely will be a Post-Doc fellowship.

 

[RxnMan]

...I applied for the HHMI this year, and my PI presented me with this option. Postdoc seems to pay more though I'm not sure whether it would be a disadvantage to apply to residency as an MD grad. Any thoughts?

There are significant disadvantages to not entering the Match right after graduation. 4th year US medical students have the highest match rates of any population applying to residency. Your PI (presumably a PhD) wouldn't know this. You would have to address this issue with your school (extend your enrollment so that you would graduate after your post-doc).

On a related note, my school would designate my time as educational and not charge me tuition (as opposed to a leave of abscence). LOAs are reserved for folks who need time off for personal reasons or for poor academic performance. This way my transcript looks spotless and I avoid messy questions during residency interviews.

 

[RxnMan]

Have you considered the NIH Year off Program? It has an open deadline:
http://www.training.nih.gov/student/pre-irta/previewinterim.asp

Yeah, but it doesn't have the classes and the support that I think are required.

I've said it elsewhere (in the FAQ?), but I firmly believe that the best research training programs are ones that are pretty formalized. They should have classes, lots of director oversight, direct research mentorship, and specific goals for all participants (i.e., everyone presents at least a poster by the end of the year). These factors show, in part, the host institution's dedication to the program. It also shows how much they value the participants, and demonstrates the tangible benefits of being there.

Which is why I didn't apply for HHMI - yeah, you get lots of bench experience. But no structure. I've done that before (I have a MS,) and 1) it wasn't fun, 2) it wasn't educational. I'm too old and too experienced to think of commiting a year without it being worth my time. I thought the CRTP was the safest bet out there.

 

[RxnMan]

An advantage to taking a year between 2nd and 3rd or 3rd and 4th years is that you have a higher probability of completing substantial work before residencies offer and conduct interviews. The few people I've met that have taken a post-grad year did so because they either didn't feel they were strong enough to match into their competitive field or failed to match previously. I'm not saying that's you, but that's just what I've heard anecdotally.

These are also good points. Kinda like I said above, taking time off from school and training is not the norm, and is generally done for less than desirable reasons. You do not want to be lumped in that population.

apart from the hhmi program, is anyone aware of other programs/funding opportunities that let you do a 1 year stint at a place of your choosing?

Yes. Try the Fogarty fellowship program. We have a student who is in Japan now.

The CDC also has a 1yr fellowship. Not sure of anything specific to cancer. American Cancer Society probably has one, but most likely will be a Post-Doc fellowship.

The CDC's fellowship takes place in Atlanta - you can't go anywhere else. Check the FAQ for details and website.

 

[HarveyCushing]

They should have classes, lots of director oversight, direct research mentorship, and specific goals for all participants (i.e., everyone presents at least a poster by the end of the year).

I agree that your mentor should be an integral part of your research experience with direct and frequent contact, and that there should be a specific goal for all participants. Hopefully more than just a poster. That would be sad if all your research only amounted to a poster. At least to me that would spell failure. Anything less than at least one first author paper is less than ideal imho.

In my opinion regarding the classes; I think less classes the better. I think the year should be about learning how to do good research. While you can "learn" about it (more like hear about it) in class, there is no better way than actually being in the lab and learning hands on and working around problems that arise with the project. A stats class is probably the most worth while class. But other than that I think it is a waste of time. A residency program won't care that you took class x,y,z and only got a poster at the end of one year. They care about publications, plain and simple. No better way than to jump right in and focus completely on the research aspect. But luckily there are multiple programs that tailor to each of our interests and preferences.

 

[Rocket3004]

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of this:

While I hope the HHMI works out, I spent quite a bit of time writing this proposal, so to tweak this proposal and send it out to other organizations/funding opportunities might not be a bad idea. Unfortunately, many of the ones I have come across are either only for md/phd students, for specific areas of research (i.e. cardio), or require you to work at a specific location (nih, a list of "participating schools", international, cdc, etc.)

So what I'm looking for: is there something just like the HHMI where I can pick an institution stateside, and submit a proposal to get funded for a year off with no restrictions... or if there are, that I would qualify for: an MD student doing cancer research (with a proposal in hand).

Perhaps I should make a different thread so other people with "getting funding experience" could chime in...?

 

[HarveyCushing]

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of this:

While I hope the HHMI works out, I spent quite a bit of time writing this proposal, so to tweak this proposal and send it out to other organizations/funding opportunities might not be a bad idea. Unfortunately, many of the ones I have come across are either only for md/phd students, for specific areas of research (i.e. cardio), or require you to work at a specific location (nih, a list of "participating schools", international, cdc, etc.)

So what I'm looking for: is there something just like the HHMI where I can pick an institution stateside, and submit a proposal to get funded for a year off with no restrictions... or if there are, that I would qualify for: an MD student doing cancer research (with a proposal in hand).

Perhaps I should make a different thread so other people with "getting funding experience" could chime in...?

I recommend reading the FAQ section, posts #8-16. I think it gives a great overview of all of the programs. The only other program that I am familiar with that was left out was the AHA and the NIH Year off Program.

 

[RxnMan]

I agree that your mentor should be an integral part of your research experience with direct and frequent contact, and that there should be a specific goal for all participants. Hopefully more than just a poster. That would be sad if all your research only amounted to a poster. At least to me that would spell failure. Anything less than at least one first author paper is less than ideal imho...

OK, we all want that 1st-authorship that is featured on the front of Science. Maybe my example set the bar too low, but you get my meaning - you want some product at the end of things to say that you did something.

Oh, and the IRTA is in the FAQ - check #15. But I'll try to add the AHA when I have the time...and I remember.

I guess I was thinking more along the lines of this:...So what I'm looking for: is there something just like the HHMI where I can pick an institution stateside, and submit a proposal to get funded for a year off with no restrictions... or if there are, that I would qualify for: an MD student doing cancer research (with a proposal in hand)...

I had a whole response written saying that you'd need to wait until reseidency, but there is the HHMI-Research Scholars program. HHMI will fund you to go to a institution and work with a mentor on a project of your devising. You have to have a proposal and the permission of your host mentor. Check the FAQ for Pinkertinkle's posts.

 

[HarveyCushing]

OK, we all want that 1st-authorship that is featured on the front of Science. Maybe my example set the bar too low, but you get my meaning - you want some product at the end of things to say that you did something.

I understood what you meant. I just feel, at least for myself and my goals, that this year off is to focus on research. My goal is to do research, learn how to do research, be productive during the year (get some pubs), have fun, learn something, and see if academic medicine is for me. A few of the programs have quite extensive didactic course work. Some people might really enjoy that and want that. I just think it is important for someone to determine what they want out of the fellowship experience since each program offers something a little different from the same mold.

 

[Rocket3004]

I had a whole response written saying that you'd need to wait until reseidency, but there is the HHMI-Research Scholars program. HHMI will fund you to go to a institution and work with a mentor on a project of your devising. You have to have a proposal and the permission of your host mentor. Check the FAQ for Pinkertinkle's posts.

Right, I am well aware of that program, as I indicated in my response. Is there anything that is pretty much identical to the HHMI research scholars program, but that is offered by another institution (NOT Sarnoff - not doing cards research, or NOT Doris duke, Cloisters, nor CDC, etc. b/c that limits where I can work)

 

[HarveyCushing]

Right, I am well aware of that program, as I indicated in my response. Is there anything that is pretty much identical to the HHMI research scholars program, but that is offered by another institution (NOT Sarnoff - not doing cards research, or NOT Doris duke, Cloisters, nor CDC, etc. b/c that limits where I can work)

I think you basically know your answer from the posts regarding this. All of the programs are listed in the FAQ, and as you know the HHMI is the only one that you can select your project topic and location. If you find another one please add it to the list, but I am unfamiliar with one.

 

[RxnMan]

Right, I am well aware of that program, as I indicated in my response. Is there anything that is pretty much identical to the HHMI research scholars program, but that is offered by another institution (NOT Sarnoff - not doing cards research, or NOT Doris duke, Cloisters, nor CDC, etc. b/c that limits where I can work)

Sorry - frequently when people refer to HHMI, they mean the Cloisters program in Bethesda, not Research Scholars. I glossed over that.

As is, only independent funding will give you the freedom you're describing.

 

[Medicles]

Helpful information indeed, thanks everyone.

 

[diosa428]

I only applied to the CRTP, so that would be both my last and first choice. Most of the DDs were in high cost-of-living cities or where I didn't want to live. I didn't apply to HHMI because it didn't have the right research focus and I wasn't interested in their 'enrichment activities.'

The CRTP was the only program that had the classes, structure, city, housing, clinical focus, and research opportunities I wanted.

You know Bethesda and DC are really expensive, right? We pay $935/mo this year for half of a 2Br/2Ba apt. Sure to go up next year, but apparently the pay is also increasing. Comes out to about 40% of your paycheck.

 

[RxnMan]

You know Bethesda and DC are really expensive, right? We pay $935/mo this year for half of a 2Br/2Ba apt. Sure to go up next year, but apparently the pay is also increasing. Comes out to about 40% of your paycheck.

I knew that CRTP pays the most of the programs, but I didn't know, though not for lack of trying, that the rent was that high.

 

[diosa428]

I knew that CRTP pays the most of the programs, but I didn't know, though not for lack of trying, that the rent was that high.

Yeah honestly I'm not even sure that they told us that on interview day... I don't think I found out until I decided to come (although I'm sure if I had asked on interview day, one of the students would have told me). Anyway, our stipend is $30,200 + $1,200 computer stipend. I think next year it's going to be $33,000, but no computer stipend. Rent increased $15/month from last year I think, so next year's class will probably be looking at $950-960/month for the 2br/2ba.

 

[socmob]

diosa - the CRTP salary is taxable though, right? How much do you typically take home a month after taxes? Thanks!

 

[diosa428]

diosa - the CRTP salary is taxable though, right? How much do you typically take home a month after taxes? Thanks!

So the NIH doesn't take out the taxes but the stipend is taxable. Which means we get some form in Jan (W-40? I'm not sure) and they report the income to the government, and you have to go see a tax person to determine how much you owe in taxes. The amount varies person to person, because it's a fellowship and technically the only taxable portion is the amount you make in the calendar year (ie, Jan 08 - Dec 08, which is only half of your stipend, or around $15k) minus the amount of tuition you paid in that calendar year... or so I've been told. So what you're supposed to do is see a tax person before the start of the year to figure out how much you're going to owe come April, and then save that money so that you can pay your taxes, rather than having it come out of your stipend and then filing and getting money back. Sorry it's complicated, but you will find that dealing with the government usually is, apparently.

However, if you find yourself in need of money, there are plenty of studies going on at the NIH and you can be a "healthy volunteer" and get paid for it... which can be quite lucrative if you can find the studies that require the least amount of time and the most money...

 

[Gabujabu]

I am a second-year student who applied for HHMI and am wondering if the research that I propose to do this year needs to be related to the specialty I pursue in the future. The reason I even ask is that I just saw a presentation from my medical school advisors who said that the research you do really needs to be in line with the field you eventually decide upon, especially if the field is competitive. He even mentioned a bizarre case of a student who decided on a competitive specialty late in his clinical years and hence took a second year off (!) since the research he did during his HHMI year was in a vastly different field. Then again, this is a very research-intensive medical school, so I am not sure if such advice would be typical. I primarily chose my advisor because I've been working in his lab for a long time, he's an excellent mentor, and it has been very productive experience. Thanks.

 

[socmob]

I'm not sure this is the place to ask that question as it generally depends on the field. Some very competitive fields do really prefer to see research in their fields. How mandatory/important this is is up for debate although some fields (like rad onc) it's considered to be a given. Most fields don't care as long as it's good research.

 

[RxnMan]

I am a second-year student who applied for HHMI and am wondering if the research that I propose to do this year needs to be related to the specialty I pursue in the future...

I don't believe so. I might have covered this in the FAQ, but many students don't know what they want to do until after 3rd year. Most students change their mind on what they want to go into over their time in school. It's nice to have it link up, but I don't believe it has to. Most PDs, I think, would be more happy to see the HHMI on your CV than anything.

You could also pick a project in a broad field - like HTN - which affects all organ systems, which can be spun into relating somewhere in most fields.

 

[RxnMan]

This just in - I spoke to the CRTP program coordinator, and he told me that there were ~120 apps this year and they planned to interview ~60. A bit of a bump up in # of apps from last year (~90).

 

[Dr. Paps Meer]

I was looking for some helpful info. I'm traveling out of the country for a medical volunteer trip during my spring break, which is March 5th-15th.

I know acceptance notifications for DDCF and HHMI programs are sent out around March 20th or so. I am more worried about the possibility of getting a call from a DDCF director (like UTSW) or something when I'm out of the country.

Does anyone roughly know when phones calls are made/when interviews are typically conducted for DDCF and HHMI cloister?

 

[HarveyCushing]

I was looking for some helpful info. I'm traveling out of the country for a medical volunteer trip during my spring break, which is March 5th-15th.

I know acceptance notifications for DDCF and HHMI programs are sent out around March 20th or so. I am more worried about the possibility of getting a call from a DDCF director (like UTSW) or something when I'm out of the country.

Does anyone roughly know when phones calls are made/when interviews are typically conducted for DDCF and HHMI cloister?

I believe that the HHMI- Cloister's program interviews in early March according to their website. I also believe that the DDCF programs that require interviews do those sometime in early March. This might not even be an issue if you don't make the first cut. If you do make the first cut and go on to be interviewed, then you might have something to worry about since these programs also have deadlines to meet. Depending when in early March they interview, you might miss the interview and would basically be coming back right when the notifications were sent out. Can you cancel the trip if you were notified you had an interview?

 

[socmob]

Judging from the posts from last year, Cloister interviews were offered on successive weekends in the first half of march which unfortunately seems to conflict w/ your dates. DDCF phone interviews,if offered, seemed to be pretty random. Sorry I don't have better news! I'd recommend calling the programs and discussing your situation to see if they could make sure to call you before you left or even do the phone interview internationally. You could talk to HHMI to confirm the interview weekend dates - I don't know how you're going to get around that but maybe they have a solution (or maybe it's not a conflict at all). Best of luck.

edit: arrgh, beaten by HarveyCushing. =)