Army Drilling through Residency

[studocplsignore]

This is a cross-post from the residents forum, but I figure people here would also have knowledge of a possible answer. I'm currently in the application process for the National Guard and would like to pursue an EM residency in the future. Would my obligations to drill in the NG (one week every two months) interfere greatly during residency and do you think residency directors would look unfavorably on such an obligation? Thanks!

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[DrMetal]

Drilling in a regular NG unit (ie infantry, logistics, etc) , or drilling a medical ("resident-friendly") unit? If the former, yes it could seriously interfere with your training. I'd discourage you from doing it. Just finish your training, then join the NG as a BC'd EM physician. Once you're an attending somewhere, you stand a better chance at calling the shots with respect to your work schedule.

 

[USNR_Medicine]

Are you sure you'll be required to drill during residency? Just speaking for Navy, but I know the TMS program allows you to count your residency training as drill time. It might be the same in the NG.

 

[studocplsignore]

Drilling in a regular NG unit (ie infantry, logistics, etc) , or drilling a medical ("resident-friendly") unit? If the former, yes it could seriously interfere with your training. I'd discourage you from doing it. Just finish your training, then join the NG as a BC'd EM physician. Once you're an attending somewhere, you stand a better chance at calling the shots with respect to your work schedule.

I would be drilling in a medical (AMEDD) detachment under the Flex Training schedule, which is one drill every two months.

 

[DrMetal]

I would be drilling in a medical (AMEDD) detachment under the Flex Training schedule, which is one drill every two months.

That would be more feasible. Question is, do you really wanna give up that one weekend/month.

 

[DeadCactus]

In addition to the below, I'll add that I would not count on either being with an AMEDD unit or being allowed to flex-train. Both are likely but neither is guaranteed in any contract or law. You need to be prepared for having to give up the full 2 days x 12 months + 2 weeks obligation every year and/or being assigned to something like an infantry. Entering the military without a solid grasp of what is unlikely but possible is a bad recipe.

Copied from your cross-post in the EM forum. They'll probably be closing that one:

1. Legally, time to go to drill is protected by law. That being said, you would be a fool to not play nice with your program. They can hurt you badly and you would never be able to prove anything. Beyond that, you're just hurting other people in the Guard if you come through being a pain in the ass.

2. The flip side is that you are legally obligated to be at drill unless excused by your commander. They have full power to send the police to find you and bring you to drill. They too can hurt you, though frankly even a dishonorable discharge (let alone a less than honorable discharge) is probably less damaging to your career than being kicked out of residency.

3. You absolutely are deployable. Never mind that the US government, if sufficiently inclined, can draft and deploy whoever they please. There is nothing in the law that protects you from deployment. You're still extremely unlikely to be deployed to the point where you're better off worrying about spending the millions you'll win in the lottery. You're protected by politics and your own uselessness. Medical student and interns are useless, WW3 probably wouldn't see you activated. A resident, as someone who in many states can be licensed to practice medicine, could potentially be activated if something like WW3 were to come along. Barring catastrophe, even the military is not going to risk the fall-out from pulling reserve members out of their civilian training programs.

So what do you do? You work with your unit and program while accepting some personal sacrifice to meet your military obligation with minimal impact on your residency program. Some residency programs will willingly schedule around your drill weekends. Some units will barely require you to actually show up. The more likely situation is somewhere in the middle. Between the two you can usually find a workable solution: going to one day of drill 2 months instead of a full weekend 1 month, getting drill credit for attending a conference or submitting CME, drilling at a full-time medical unit during a weekday you have off, etc.

Bottom line, it takes some communication but you can make it work especially in a specialty like Emergency Medicine. Don't forget the 2 weeks of Annual Training currently required every other year. Again there are solutions like elective and/or vacation time. You just have to understand that the drill time is coming out of your days off not in place of shifts in the ED...

Frankly, most of the people in my program forget I'm in the Guard. I take it as a good thing.

 

[studocplsignore]

Thank you for the information, DeadCactus, it's good to hear from someone who has had experience in the matter.

(1) I completely understand. I would like to make drill as much as I can, and understand that, especially in residency, going to drill will require me to sacrifice personal time, whether it's vacation days, weekends off, or simple scrounging up whatever time I can get to take the weekend off. I am prepare to make that sacrifice, or at least prepare to make that kind of sacrifice in medical school.

(2) I understand that as well, in all honesty, I would like to keep my residency at the top of my priorities if possible, if only because I am useless without having completed my residency training and completed it well.

(3) Agreed. I'm in the Selective Service as well, so it's not like the government doesn't already have that option.

It did worry me a little when you mentioned not being in an AMEDD unit or flex-training. I was under the impression that as a medical student/resident, you are given that designation and serve with a medical detachment? At least, that's how I understood it, and as a medicalstudent/resident, the Flex Training policy applied to you.

I guess my biggest concern, at least as stated above, was if you felt any particular programs saw your NG obligation as a negative and subsequently lowered your chances of matching in? And, if you don't mind me asking, what were your motivations for participating in the ARNG program? Thank you!

 

[notdeadyet]

DC's post is spot on. I have little to add....

It did worry me a little when you mentioned not being in an AMEDD unit or flex-training. I was under the impression that as a medical student/resident, you are given that designation and serve with a medical detachment?

Not necessarily, particularly as a resident. There are many vacant slots for docs in combat units in the Guard and in a lot of states, docs have congregated in med Det units, to the irritation of the line units. In some states, there has been a push to move docs out of med Det and into the combat units.

I guess my biggest concern, at least as stated above, was if you felt any particular programs saw your NG obligation as a negative and subsequently lowered your chances of matching in?

Some undoubtedly do. But you are unlikely to interview there as they'd screen your app out before you interview.

For programs that take a negative view on reservists, some may be small mindedness, but some may be from past residents not following DC's advice above and expecting the residencies to move heaven and earth for them. With a little planning and cooperation, you can get through without burning bridges. You can actually be an asset: many programs have VA associations and your military experience will help with some patients. Even on non-VA rotations, I've had vets ask specifically for someone with a military background and the department is happy to send them my way.

There is also a long history of docs getting their training in the military, and you'll be surprised how many you'll run across in academia. I have a hunch at the end of the day, it's likely about even between how many places your military association will help and how many it will hurt. I ended up matching at an extremely left leaning program and they were more curious than anything.

One final point, many programs, particularly academic ones, have "military leave." You may have to hunt to find it if you're the first reservist resident. Mine has 30 days/year, so my AT and Friday of three day drills is covered without eating into vacation time.

I'm very happy with my decision. I wasn't happy with what I saw of my options for military residency training. I also have a hunch that I wouldn't tolerate full-time Army life well. But I can tolerate it fine in short bursts and am happy to deploy during times of war, so the Reserve Corps worked out quite well,

 

[henge]

One final point, many programs, particularly academic ones, have "military leave." You may have to hunt to find it if you're the first reservist resident. Mine has 30 days/year, so my AT and Friday of three day drills is covered without eating into vacation time.

Do you know at what point the combined military and vacation leave would make it impossible to put in the time necessary to timely complete the residency? Also, if your annual military training comes when your curriculum calls for you to undertake a mandatory experience (like the .5 months EM residents are required to have in OB), how do you make that up?

 

[studocplsignore]

Thanks for the input deadcenter and notdeadyet, I'm definitely willing to make things work, even if it means needing to work a little harder. As a DO student, with EM getting more competitive, I've pretty much been trying to avoid anything that'll hurt my chances, but I do want to serve in the guard, and like you said, I don't see active-duty in the military system agreeing with me, but am more than amenable to being deployed.

At the end of the day though, I'm hoping and I think that the experience will be overall a positive one!