Dropped charge drug felony...any chance?

[deleted748378]

When a lawyer recommends a plea to a client he doesn't give a crap about med school -- he is trying to keep you out of prison. You don't gamble with freedom in hopes of getting exonerated.

And this is incorrect. I would not have served any prison time if I was found flat out guilty for my possesion charge, that was discussed very openly with the state's attorney. She told me the point of the guilty plea, and subsequent vacating of said plea was so that I could go to medical school and not have one stupid mistake affect the rest of my life.

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[mimelim]

I appreciate the helpful responses. To make it more clear that I will not have a felony conviction at the end of this process, I've attached an image of the exact wording used by the program. They say " the state's attorney will vacate the guilty plea and dismiss the charges of the criminal case" at which point I will work with my lawyer to get the arrest expunged off of my record. This means that I will not have a guilty plea, will not have charges, and eventually will not have record of my arrest available to anyone but the FBI. So those of you who are saying that I won't ever get into medical school because of my felony conviction, I won't have one so please keep your comments to yourself. My question remains, what is the likelihood of this interfering with being able to do rotations in medical school, and eventually getting a medical license/ DEA #. I understand I should worry about getting in first, but I'd rather have some knowledge on whether I'll be wasting 4 years and $200k to be told I can't be a doctor before I decide to go through the trouble and cost of reapplying.

You were convicted of a felony. That will not change, no matter what you do from here on out. Assuming that you complete this program, you will have convicted a felony and then had the charges vacated. As far as the state is concerned, you will have never committed a crime. However, it will be lying to answer the question, "Have you ever been convicted of a felony or misdemeanor?" With "No". You may legally answer the question "No". The program that you are entering gives you the legal right to do so. However, if you are caught lying about it (anything comes back or gets reported), your application is dead in the water.

This is not a discussion about the merits of the war on drugs or how many people are doing drugs. This is about how the admissions process works.

The reason for this is very simple. To get a DEA license and other credentialing, this is going to come up. No school wants to deal with that.

 

[LizzyM]

With regard to residency, licensing and all the rest, medical schools ask about criminal background to weed out those folks who won't be able to find a residency or get a medical license or a DEA number because of their record. No sense giving a spot to someone who will be incapable of practicing medicine due to the inability to be licensed.

 

[mimelim]

And this is incorrect. I would not have served any prison time if I was found flat out guilty for my possesion charge, that was discussed very openly with the state's attorney. She told me the point of the guilty plea, and subsequent vacating of said plea was so that I could go to medical school and not have one stupid mistake affect the rest of my life.

And a prosecutor's job is to clear their case list and have as many people plead out cases as possible. Why? It maximizes their conviction rate (which is precious to them). They can legally and do lie to people to get them to take pleas, which is why you should always have your lawyer present when dealing with them so they can sift through the bull****. (My wife, and ADA's words)

No offense meant, but if you take a prosecutor's word who has a vested interested in getting you to plead out over that of experienced adcoms about how this will go, you have other, bigger problems.

 

[Law2Doc]

And this is incorrect. I would not have served any prison time if I was found flat out guilty for my possesion charge, that was discussed very openly with the state's attorney. She told me the point of the guilty plea, and subsequent vacating of said plea was so that I could go to medical school and not have one stupid mistake affect the rest of my life.

As mentioned your lawyer, not the states attorney is the only one working for you. His recommendation was based on criminal consequences, not admissions. Nothing the states attorney promised that wasn't in the plea agreement is meaningful.

If you didn't plead you could absolutely go to prison -- a "felony" is different than a "misdemeanor" in most states precisely because it can carry substantial incarceration (i.e. Prison) Now the states attorney has a lot of discretion as to how hard to push things, so a first timer on a milder charge who is willing to plea and give her an easy win isn't going to be one she fights for prison time. But let's not kid a kidder- the legislature classified your charge as a felony so they would have the option of prison, so if you didn't plead and were convicted of a felony in court you absolutely could have been incarcerated.

 

[markcinnn]

So exoneration doesn't destroy the charges, criminal history etc.? Like in an earlier example, you get caught in a drug raid at a grocery store but it turns out you were just shopping for milk. Would a background check show a report of the incident?

Y'all are not using the terms correctly. Per my earlier post, exoneration would only happen in situation #3 and like I said it is exceedingly rare. Exoneration is when a conviction of a crime is overturned. So you went to trial, you were convicted and likely sentenced, you spent some time in jail (or other sentencing req), and at some later point your verdict is overturned.

Just getting dismissed either via situation #1 or #2 is not an exoneration (buying milk in the middle of a drug raid would likely be dismissed via #1 before any trial). And yes, some background checks show ALL arrests and charges ever produced against you and you will have to try to explain that you were just buying milk and that's why it was dismissed and not just because the DA wasn't able to make a good enough case against a criminal.

Edit: And again, if it was a felony charge that you caught during you milk buying drug raid excursion, most public defenders would advise you to plead to a "harmless" misdemeanor the "nice" DA offers. That's a very likely consequence of that hypothetical.

 

[njtrimed]

T

I know similar questions have been asked previoiusly, but I have a very specific case regarding a drug possession felony and medical school admissions. About a year ago I was I got myself into a situation where I was charged with a possession of controlled substance felony. I applied to med school this past cycle, had my primary in before this happened, and the secondaries I sent it only asked about violent/sexual crime felonies so I did not have to disclose what happened. Alas, I was rejected from all of the schools I applied to, likely due to the criminal record.

Due to the circumstance of the crime, and a program I was accepted in the state because of my previous clean record I pled guilty to the felony. However, the program I am in is dropping the plea and the charges once I have completed it and I have a lawyer to work on the expungement after that. My question is, should I wait until the process is all over and it is expunged before I apply again? Or even if it is expunged I will likely face issues getting a DEA #, residency, etc and should just give up on medicine, the only thing I've ever really wanted to do with my future.

I'm just curious about two things: (1) How did you manage to end up in this situation when you were in the middle of applying for the only career you have ever wanted? I'm not trying to kick you while you're down; I'm just honestly curious how this happened. And (2) If you were not asked about this and did not have to disclose it on secondaries, what makes you think it's the reason you were rejected across the board in that cycle? I was under the impression that criminal background checks aren't run until you are accepted or waitlisted. Are you sure that this is the reason?

 

[IlDestriero]

You went to parties in college where people were doing heroin??

I think if you went to a big party in the 80s and people weren't doing some cocaine, you'd think "wow, this party is a little sketchy, who are these townies?"

 

[LizzyM]

I think if you went to a big party in the 80s and people weren't doing some cocaine, you'd think "wow, this party is a little sketchy, who are these townies?"

I must have been one of the townies.

 

[w0rldw3y3d]

I have heard of people with arrests, and even drug charges getting accepted. I guess if someone is just arrested and not charged, or simply just charged and not convicted, then that is wayy less harsh. I think the the conviction stamp is what is going to be a killer. If they had just been arrested, then they would just have to answer positively about arrests (unless explicitly told not to disclose expungements). If you were arrested and charged, then you would have to answer according, but convicted is a death sentence for admissions apparently.

 

[CoomassieBlue57]

I'm just curious about two things: (1) How did you manage to end up in this situation when you were in the middle of applying for the only career you have ever wanted? I'm not trying to kick you while you're down; I'm just honestly curious how this happened. And (2) If you were not asked about this and did not have to disclose it on secondaries, what makes you think it's the reason you were rejected across the board in that cycle? I was under the impression that criminal background checks aren't run until you are accepted or waitlisted. Are you sure that this is the reason?

This x2.

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

You were convicted of a felony. That will not change, no matter what you do from here on out. Assuming that you complete this program, you will have convicted a felony and then had the charges vacated. As far as the state is concerned, you will have never committed a crime. However, it will be lying to answer the question, "Have you ever been convicted of a felony or misdemeanor?" With "No". You may legally answer the question "No". The program that you are entering gives you the legal right to do so. However, if you are caught lying about it (anything comes back or gets reported), your application is dead in the water.

This is not a discussion about the merits of the war on drugs or how many people are doing drugs. This is about how the admissions process works.

The reason for this is very simple. To get a DEA license and other credentialing, this is going to come up. No school wants to deal with that.

I find this really interesting. I know at least 3 people who are dispersed in DO/MD schools across the country that've been in similar situations at pretty good schools (Top 30 MD's and one of the top 5 DO's). One was a theft that occurred after acceptance, she was arrested, charged, but she was placed in a program rather than having a true conviction. She didn't tell the school until the background check came up showing she was arrested, and the school still let her matriculate. The other two were drug possession (marijuana) and a DUI, both of which were still accepted after the fact and matriculated. Not sure of the entire story of the marijuana student, but the student with the DUI received it in March before matriculation, was arrested, charged, but entered a rehabilitation program, and by March of this year, his record will be expunged. He was told by the Lawyer and even called AMCAS, who said that it is not legally required to report since it was not a conviction, and so when not to anybody's surprise the background check came back with an arrest, he fought it tooth and nail with the school under the pretenses that the school only required you to notify them if you were convicted. But both instances required the student to go through a program sponsored by the school for rehabilitation ect. But all of it is he said/she said so either YMMV or there's more to the story.

 

[deleted748378]

I find this really interesting. I know at least 3 people who are dispersed in DO/MD schools across the country that've been in similar situations at pretty good schools (Top 30 MD's and one of the top 5 DO's).

Thank you for sharing stories of people with similar experiences rather than just being on a moral high horse and telling me that I shouldn't even try at medical school since I don't deserve to be a doctor due to one bad decision that will be off of my record when I apply again. This is reassuring, and I plan to speak at depth with my lawyer and possibly other lawyers such as a medical licensing lawyer on what I do and do not have to disclose and whether an issue can arise from not disclosing.

 

[Law2Doc]

I find this really interesting. I know at least 3 people who are dispersed in DO/MD schools across the country that've been in similar situations at pretty good schools (Top 30 MD's and one of the top 5 DO's). One was a theft that occurred after acceptance, she was arrested, charged, but she was placed in a program rather than having a true conviction. She didn't tell the school until the background check came up showing she was arrested, and the school still let her matriculate. The other two were drug possession (marijuana) and a DUI, both of which were still accepted after the fact and matriculated. Not sure of the entire story of the marijuana student, but the student with the DUI received it in March before matriculation, was arrested, charged, but entered a rehabilitation program, and by March of this year, his record will be expunged. He was told by the Lawyer and even called AMCAS, who said that it is not legally required to report since it was not a conviction, and so when not to anybody's surprise the background check came back with an arrest, he fought it tooth and nail with the school under the pretenses that the school only required you to notify them if you were convicted. But both instances required the student to go through a program sponsored by the school for rehabilitation ect. But all of it is he said/she said so either YMMV or there's more to the story.

Yes but were they felonies? Because that's a big part of the equation here as well.

 

[Law2Doc]

Thank you for sharing stories of people with similar experiences rather than just being on a moral high horse and telling me that I shouldn't even try at medical school since I don't deserve to be a doctor due to one bad decision that will be off of my record when I apply again. This is reassuring, and I plan to speak at depth with my lawyer and possibly other lawyers such as a medical licensing lawyer on what I do and do not have to disclose and whether an issue can arise from not disclosing.

Yeah seeing a local lawyer is the absolute right starting point. SDN really wasn't, and frankly once you bring this here you lose the right to complain about people's moral high horses -- you handed everyone the reigns.

 

[itsogre]

speak at depth with my lawyer and possibly other lawyers such as a medical licensing lawyer on what I do and do not have to disclose and whether an issue can arise from not disclosing.

best part of your post.

I do see issues arising from this, as any charges like what you're describing must be reported to licensing authorities in the future, even if you legally can state you haven't been convicted of such in other situations (employment, volunteering, applying for admissions), since licensing in medicine is very different from anything else.

 

[deleted731525]

I appreciate the helpful responses. To make it more clear that I will not have a felony conviction at the end of this process, I've attached an image of the exact wording used by the program. They say " the state's attorney will vacate the guilty plea and dismiss the charges of the criminal case" at which point I will work with my lawyer to get the arrest expunged off of my record. This means that I will not have a guilty plea, will not have charges, and eventually will not have record of my arrest available to anyone but the FBI. So those of you who are saying that I won't ever get into medical school because of my felony conviction, I won't have one so please keep your comments to yourself. My question remains, what is the likelihood of this interfering with being able to do rotations in medical school, and eventually getting a medical license/ DEA #. I understand I should worry about getting in first, but I'd rather have some knowledge on whether I'll be wasting 4 years and $200k to be told I can't be a doctor before I decide to go through the trouble and cost of reapplying.

You're best bet is to contact an actual lawyer with experience in these situations. This is honestly the last place you should be looking for advice on this issue.

 

[hopefulERdoc251]

Yes but were they felonies? Because that's a big part of the equation here as well.

Oh yeah I know hahah, I'm just pointing it out that there are exceptions to every rule. Sorry! All of those were misdemeanor crimes. and that it is best to contact your own lawyer for more information regarding this.

 

[mimelim]

Thank you for sharing stories of people with similar experiences rather than just being on a moral high horse and telling me that I shouldn't even try at medical school since I don't deserve to be a doctor due to one bad decision that will be off of my record when I apply again. This is reassuring, and I plan to speak at depth with my lawyer and possibly other lawyers such as a medical licensing lawyer on what I do and do not have to disclose and whether an issue can arise from not disclosing.

Just for my own education. Can you quote in this thread where people are pulling a "moral high horse" or say that you don't "deserve to be a doctor due to one bad decision"? I'm not seeing it.

 

[TallPreMed]

I think some people also forget that becoming a doctor isn't a right. It's a privilege. And if you done €£¥?{! up, that accessibility to education dries up. You screwed up. Tough luck. You're smart. Find another career. Sell drugs the legal way and become a pharma rep.

Just FYI OP this isn't aimed directly at you. It's just meant in general, from reading some of the responses on here.

 

[bc65]

OP, rather than listen to us, you should contact an attorney who does physician defense at medical board hearings. Perhaps you should contact the attorney cited by mimelim. See what the attorney says. It will be worth the investment of several thousand dollars. I suspect that what you can legally answer about your criminal history will vary from state to state.

This does seem to be a different situation from one in which charges are dismissed prior to a conviction, but following a diversion program. In this case, you did actually plead guilty, so the expungement here would be of a guilty plea, and not of an arrest. Many schools don't ask about arrests, and many states don't allow job applicants to ask about arrests, only convictions. However, in your case, you actually did have a conviction. Again, see what an attorney specializing in physician licensing says. You might also contact your attorney and see if you can get a letter from the DA clarifying what your legal status will be and what you can legally claim. Again, see what an attorney tells you.

I don't know the details of your case, so I can't say if taking the plea was the right thing to do, but it sounds like you did commit a felony, and you didn't go to jail, so you may have take the best course of action. If this does preclude medical school for now, you might try reapplying in 5 years. On the other hand, many, if not most, physicians regret their choice of profession, so perhaps it's all for the best.

As far as people talking about "exoneration", that word implies a trial and acquittal. If you're arrested and charges are dropped, most people would say that's better than an acquittal.

Good luck.

 

[Ad2b]

I applaud your willingness to come to a premed forum and ask such a weighted question. What puzzles me, is that you were willing to apply to med school fully aware that the charges were not exonerated and only AFTER you were fully rejected from every school you applied to, did you think to ask for help.

That leads me to believe that somehow, if you got through all the hoops and jumps and interviews and everything else, you were perfectly willing to just let the little drug felony slide. Kind of like the cheating husband/wife who only cares after being caught. It doesn't look good.

If that is correct, then I would have an issue with your decision making along with your drug issue. Bet you're glad I'm not an adcom (and will never ever be - dang, those people have a rough job).

Good luck with your path.

 

[bc65]

That leads me to believe that somehow, if you got through all the hoops and jumps and interviews and everything else, you were perfectly willing to just let the little drug felony slide. Kind of like the cheating husband/wife who only cares after being caught. It doesn't look good.

I disagree with this line of reasoning. I don't see why constant mea culpas are necessary. I think it's fair to assume that OP regrets what he did. Now he just wants to get into medical school. I also assume that he is not likely to be dealing drugs in medical school. Sure, someone might conclude that he's more likely to sell prescriptions for narcotics to patients than most doctors, but it is more likely the case that he will be less likely to do so, given his unpleasant experience with the legal system. If we knew for a fact that his past legal problems would not hinder his ability to get a license later, or to practice as a med student and resident, then what benefit is there in his revealing a mistake that the legal system itself decided should be expunged? None that I can see, other than an opportunity to be rejected.

We don't know the details of this case, but keep in mind that in some jurisdictions, if you have a certain amount of marijuana, it may be a misdemeanor or even not a crime at all, but one gram more than that amount, and it's considered felony possession with intent to sell. So it's entirely possible that this felony was for an action that might have been entirely legal in some states. That doesn't mean that he didn't commit a crime, but it would put it into perspective.

As far as the cheating husband analogy goes, I don't see any reason for a spouse to reveal cheating if it's in the past. Doing so only lets the cheater feel better, while unnecessarily hurting the spouse.

 

[Ad2b]

@bc65 - we'll have to agree to disagree... the timing of his question is suspect. Submitted fully aware of charge and plea, rejected by all schools THEN decides to take corrective action.

But w/e. I wish the OP luck!