Dropping out of an MSTP to just pursue MD

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.

pulsey

Junior Member
10+ Year Member
15+ Year Member
Joined
Jun 21, 2005
Messages
8
Reaction score
0
Hi everyone... I doubt I can get a clear cut answer to this, but I'd really appreciate any advice or insight.. I've been searching

I have a pretty strong background in research, and have been encouraged to pursue an MD/PhD by my PI and other mentors. However, although I really like research, I think I'm more interested in becoming a clinician. I know that students that are selected to MSTP programs are expected to complete the entire program, but I was curious about how much pressure there is to do so. How difficult is it to drop out of the MSTP program during the first year or two (or perhaps even right after being admitted) to instead pursue an MD? I've read about the monetary side of things, but I'm more interested in whether doing this will cause faculty to look at a student differently.

Members don't see this ad.
 
Are you a current MSTP or applying to MSTP?

If you are dropping out of the MSTP, you probably won't encounter too much resistance. No program can force you to stay in it. So if you want to drop out, you can. There could be consequences (read below).

The more important question is "Why are you considering MSTP if you are already thinking about dropping out?" If you're having doubts now, and are applying to medical schools, why are you bothering with MSTP applications? The only way I can see you justifying this course of action is that given your background, you'd probably have an easier time getting into MSTP programs rather than MD programs (I can sympathize because I was the same way...good grades, test scores, and publications but no humanitarian or community service record).

As for faculty perception of you, it depends on when you drop out. If you drop out without attempting any grad research (i.e., after your MS1 or MS2 year), you're going to look really bad. People are going to think that you did MSTP to get two years of free tuition and stipend support (since once you drop out, there is no payback requirement). However, the fact that you did start out in an MSTP program and later dropped out will be noted on your Dean's Letter come residency application time. Depending on the legitimacy of your explanation, the tone of that section of your Dean's Letter will reflect on that.

We had one person in my program who did the exact same thing. He went through the first two years of med school with MSTP support. Then he took the money and ran. I am told that on his Dean's Letter, the phrase "individual of questionable character" showed up.

Addendum: The ironic, and perhaps humorous thing, about this guy is that he was the student interviewer who interviewed me. I had to justify to this man of questionable motives/character why MSTP was the right kind of program for me! :laugh:
 
AndyMilonakis said:
The more important question is "Why are you considering MSTP if you are already thinking about dropping out?" If you're having doubts now, and are applying to medical schools, why are you bothering with MSTP applications? The only way I can see you justifying this course of action is that given your background, you'd probably have an easier time getting into MSTP programs rather than MD programs (I can sympathize because I was the same way...good grades, test scores, and publications but no humanitarian or community service record).

I'm applying to a few MSTP programs in addition to MD programs..

My clinical/humanitarian experiences are actually my primary motivation for applying to medical school. However, I think my research work is what stands out in my application. I suppose it's pretty late to be undecided about MSTP vs. MD but I just feel that I won't know whether MSTP is the right route for me until I settle into a different lab and see how much I can contribute once I'm in the program.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
OK how about this...if you're undecided, why not apply to MD programs only. Do a lab rotation before and/or after first year med school. If you find a lab you can settle in, then apply as an internal candidate to your med school's MSTP or MD/PhD program.
 
AndyMilonakis said:
OK how about this...if you're undecided, why not apply to MD programs only. Do a lab rotation before and/or after first year med school. If you find a lab you can settle in, then apply as an internal candidate to your med school's MSTP or MD/PhD program.

Thanks.. that's a great idea
 
It seems harsh to me that the aforementioned Dean labeled the MSTP dropout an "individual of questionable character." I hope there was more than the timing of his decision to no longer pursue the MD/PhD route in order to warrant such a statement on his letter.

How open are medical school administrations to honest, unforeseen changes of heart? I understand that the rigorous admissions process is designed to minimize these occurrences, but they can't possibly expect all of their dropouts to be manipulative.

Another question is: how do residency directors view MSTP dropouts? Is it necessarily a bad thing that a student switched career paths?
 
PhD is EXTREMELY demanding and difficult (you can look up the thread MD vs PhD ). Even people who DO want to do it end up changing their minds, and possibly dropping out.

It also takes an emotional toll. In Med School, especially first two years, it's you and the books. In grad school, it's you and your advisor, ALL THE TIME. It's a special relationship, and it's not just about learning. And pretty much every advisor will tell you that every PhD student ends up hating their advisor at some point or another. Trust me, you don't want to go through this unless you are really enthusiastic and dedicated to research.

It seems to me that you have research expreience (judging by your PI encouraging you to go for MD/PhD program), and if you don't think you like it enough now, you will not like it when things get rough, and they will get rough. Eg, an MD/PhD friend of mine did 3 hard working years in the lab that culminated in a first author Cell paper for him - everyone's dream. He was ready to go back to Medical School, BUT his PI feels THIS IS NOT ENOUGH FOR HIS PhD :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Ok, I've said to much. I hope it helps a little and doesn't scare you a whole lot. If you DO ENJOY research, then by all means, go for it (that's what I've done), and you will get a lot out of it. But it's a very difficult path to embark upon if you're not sure.

Best of luck with your decision :) PM me if you would like more info (I also have some nice things to say :)
 
Foreigner said:
PhD is EXTREMELY demanding and difficult (you can look up the thread MD vs PhD ). Even people who DO want to do it end up changing their minds, and possibly dropping out.

It also takes an emotional toll. In Med School, especially first two years, it's you and the books. In grad school, it's you and your advisor, ALL THE TIME. It's a special relationship, and it's not just about learning. And pretty much every advisor will tell you that every PhD student ends up hating their advisor at some point or another. Trust me, you don't want to go through this unless you are really enthusiastic and dedicated to research.

It seems to me that you have research expreience (judging by your PI encouraging you to go for MD/PhD program), and if you don't think you like it enough now, you will not like it when things get rough, and they will get rough. Eg, an MD/PhD friend of mine did 3 hard working years in the lab that culminated in a first author Cell paper for him - everyone's dream. He was ready to go back to Medical School, BUT his PI feels THIS IS NOT ENOUGH FOR HIS PhD :eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

Ok, I've said to much. I hope it helps a little and doesn't scare you a whole lot. If you DO ENJOY research, then by all means, go for it (that's what I've done), and you will get a lot out of it. But it's a very difficult path to embark upon if you're not sure.

Best of luck with your decision :) PM me if you would like more info (I also have some nice things to say :)


So I just submitted my AMCAS application recently and indicated my interest in the MSTP/ MD/PhD program at every school I applied to. I've been interested in these programs for a number of years, and it seemed wise to keep my options open even if I changed my mind later on in the application process.
At this point, I'm not so sure it was wise to not apply to the straight MD program at any of my schools, as I'm just not positive that I want to pursue a joint degree. Will it be detrimental if I rescind my stated interest in the joint degree program on some of my secondaries (by just submitting the MD app)?

As for actually making this huge decision--a bit of my problem is that I think I ended up working in the wrong lab after college, and it's deflated my interest in research. I majored in math, really like chemistry and physics, but have chosen to work in a microbio/biochem lab as a post-bac. My project is only marginally biochemical at this point, and I'm just not enthralled with it. What would others do in this situation? Should I try to veer the direction of my project in other directions, or should I just switch labs?
 
I am an MD/PhD student who just finished 2nd year of medical school and I am now a full 2 months into my PhD. I actually entered as an MD after having applied to both MD and MSTP programs and transfered after second year.

My advice to you all is this:

1) do not apply to both MD and MSTP programs. pick one or the other. while doing so will not kill your application, it does have the untoward effect of making both MSTP AND MD admissions directors question your desire to attend their programs (personal experience). plot a course of action now, modify it in a year as necessary.

2) my most sincere feeling about the MSTP decision is this: ask yourself if you would honestly consider graduate school alone. if you wouldn't be willing to pursue a PhD alone in the traditional path (i.e. if the idea of 4 or more years of research is not palatable to you ), don't do it. there are other ways to do research as an MD (i've researched them thoroughly) and getting a PhD, as mentioned before is no small thing. just like medical school (or any other big commitment), you'll never get through it happily--or do well with it--if you are not sincerely dedicated to the work you will be doing.

good luck!



argonana said:
So I just submitted my AMCAS application recently and indicated my interest in the MSTP/ MD/PhD program at every school I applied to. I've been interested in these programs for a number of years, and it seemed wise to keep my options open even if I changed my mind later on in the application process.
At this point, I'm not so sure it was wise to not apply to the straight MD program at any of my schools, as I'm just not positive that I want to pursue a joint degree. Will it be detrimental if I rescind my stated interest in the joint degree program on some of my secondaries (by just submitting the MD app)?

As for actually making this huge decision--a bit of my problem is that I think I ended up working in the wrong lab after college, and it's deflated my interest in research. I majored in math, really like chemistry and physics, but have chosen to work in a microbio/biochem lab as a post-bac. My project is only marginally biochemical at this point, and I'm just not enthralled with it. What would others do in this situation? Should I try to veer the direction of my project in other directions, or should I just switch labs?
 
I am currently applying to MSTP programs (about 20) but have chosen to stick with MD-only applications at several in-state schools and out-of-state schools without the MSTP program. I find it hard to believe that these will affect my acceptance at the MSTP or MD programs, simply because even if a MSTP director does find out about it, I feel that I can very easily clarify my desire to pursue the clinic and research. Has anyone directly spoken to the adcoms about this issue, not just through secondhand knowledge?
 
Fair or not, most program directors and administrators are basic scientists and have a slight bias against people who apply to MD-only schools. The question will always be (whether to you directly or to themselves silently) why did you apply to MD-only instead of PhD only if you are truly interested in research. This is first-hand information, although I did admittedly extrapolate few to "most."

-X

lundysd said:
I am currently applying to MSTP programs (about 20) but have chosen to stick with MD-only applications at several in-state schools and out-of-state schools without the MSTP program. I find it hard to believe that these will affect my acceptance at the MSTP or MD programs, simply because even if a MSTP director does find out about it, I feel that I can very easily clarify my desire to pursue the clinic and research. Has anyone directly spoken to the adcoms about this issue, not just through secondhand knowledge?
 
mw2007 said:
I am an MD/PhD student who just finished 2nd year of medical school and I am now a full 2 months into my PhD. I actually entered as an MD after having applied to both MD and MSTP programs and transfered after second year.

My advice to you all is this:

1) do not apply to both MD and MSTP programs. pick one or the other. while doing so will not kill your application, it does have the untoward effect of making both MSTP AND MD admissions directors question your desire to attend their programs (personal experience). plot a course of action now, modify it in a year as necessary.

2) my most sincere feeling about the MSTP decision is this: ask yourself if you would honestly consider graduate school alone. if you wouldn't be willing to pursue a PhD alone in the traditional path (i.e. if the idea of 4 or more years of research is not palatable to you ), don't do it. there are other ways to do research as an MD (i've researched them thoroughly) and getting a PhD, as mentioned before is no small thing. just like medical school (or any other big commitment), you'll never get through it happily--or do well with it--if you are not sincerely dedicated to the work you will be doing.

good luck!

I'm happy to read your post. A couple days before you wrote this, I revised my AMCAS and applied to MD programs only at all my schools.
I can envision myself pursuing EITHER a PhD or an MD, but not both! To be honest, it could be a self-confidence issue. In any case, I am sure I will re-visit all of this decision-making in a year (if the joint program is important enough to me).

Thanks again.
 
Top