Drug testing in medicine

[gregoryhouse]

I actually am not arguing that weed is bad at all.
I am arguing that you are in a position where using it could end your career.

You could fight it all you want. Tell the judge an your boss that "you don't blidly follow laws". That usually works.

I think we are arguing about two different things.

I agree that if you are caught smoking weed by your employer that there should be consequences because we all entered into a contract that clearly states we would refrain from illegal drugs.

What I'm arguing is that these rules shouldn't even exist in the first place.

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[ChrisGriffen]

I think we are arguing about two different things.

I agree that if you are caught smoking weed by your employer that there should be consequences because we all entered into a contract that clearly states we would refrain from illegal drugs.

What I'm arguing is that these rules shouldn't even exist in the first place.

I agree entirely. Thats pretty much the direction these threads always go in. The laws are asinine. I don't think anybody actually believes that weed should be illegal. That is not however, a rational argument for hcps to think it is OK to smoke.

 

[LostinLift]

My point about alcohol and marijuana was that alcohol is worse for you and may impair mentation a few days to a few weeks after use, or with chronic use. Our country has had and still has terrible laws in place. Marijuana and same sex marriage are still, on the whole, illegal in this country. Both of these laws are infringing upon my liberty as a "free" American and my rights as a human being.

“Unjust laws exist: shall we be content to obey them, or shall we endeavor to amend them, and obey them until we have succeeded, or shall we transgress them at once?”
― Henry David Thoreau

Being an adult doesn't mean following the rules. Being an adult means knowing which rules are worth following. This isn't to the same degree as some of the more immoral laws our country has had, but the point is the same. Just as I would not want an alcoholic physician, I would also not want a pot-head physician. But would I prefer the occasional MJ user physician to the occasional drinker? I would want whoever is a better person and a better doctor; And good people tend not to be judgmental and closed-minded.

 

[Anastomoses]

Socrates said follow the law to the letter whether you agree or not else you disrupt the very foundation of what it is to have laws at all; change it if you can but if you can't...follow. Personally I just think all drug "crimes" without a victim should only be citations like they do in California now.

 

[DermViser]

False. It's also about freeing up time and resources.

Oh, well in that case let's legalize everything to free up time and resources.

 

[CherryRedDracul]

I know this is off-topic, but we should reinstate adultery laws. Adultery is destroying the moral fabric of this nation!!

 

[touchpause13]

I know this is off-topic, but we should reinstate adultery laws. Adultery is destroying the moral fabric of this nation!!

F morality laws, as long as what goes down in my bed is consensual it's none of the govts bidness

 

[ChrisGriffen]

I know this is off-topic, but we should reinstate adultery laws. Adultery is destroying the moral fabric of this nation!!

No. Idiots who want the government to solve all of their personal problems are ruining the country.

 

[DermViser]

I know this is off-topic, but we should reinstate adultery laws. Adultery is destroying the moral fabric of this nation!!

No, what's destroying the moral fabric of this nation is divorce. Ban divorce, problem solved, although there will be a lot of spouses sleeping with one eye open.

 

[LdotBlake]

The law is the law and it's still illegal to the Feds even though 22 states have passed medical marijuana laws. The science says marijuana is less toxic than tobacco, most prescription pills and alcohol. The debates over the legality of weed is strictly political, not scientific. Pharmaceutical lobbies have been bribing politicians for years to not support medical marijuana. This is America, if smoking pot makes you happy, then why should any one keep you from doing that? We live in a double standard society, thanks Nixon and Reagan. Anybody in America should be able to grow and smoke pot if they want to in their backyard imo. Regardless of their profession. Just don't drive, go to work, or play with sharp objects when you're at your limit. Just get a whizz kit and wear it to school and work everyday. Or move to a state where you can get a card. A hassle, but until the federal law changes there really isn't any other way around it.

 

[PL198]

I forget who posted this, but they basically said a PD told them this at some point in time: " Drug tests are like intelligence tests. If you can pass medical school and you smoke marijuana and cannot pass a drug test you are either
a) too stupid to work for me
b) too addicted to work for me "

Also regarding the race issue, I can tell we have some idealists here. You're going to love those PhD profs telling you how the world should be. I bet you'll soak it up.

 

[DermViser]

The law is the law and it's still illegal to the Feds even though 22 states have passed medical marijuana laws. The science says marijuana is less toxic than tobacco, most prescription pills and alcohol. The debates over the legality of weed is strictly political, not scientific. Pharmaceutical lobbies have been bribing politicians for years to not support medical marijuana. This is America, if smoking pot makes you happy, then why should any one keep you from doing that? We live in a double standard society, thanks Nixon and Reagan. Anybody in America should be able to grow and smoke pot if they want to in their backyard imo. Regardless of their profession. Just don't drive, go to work, or play with sharp objects when you're at your limit. Just get a whizz kit and wear it to school and work everyday. Or move to a state where you can get a card. A hassle, but until the federal law changes there really isn't any other way around it.

Uh, no: http://jn.sfn.org/press/April-16-2014-Issue/zns01614005529.pdf

The Journal of Neuroscience is hardly political.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

The law is the law and it's still illegal to the Feds even though 22 states have passed medical marijuana laws. The science says marijuana is less toxic than tobacco, most prescription pills and alcohol. The debates over the legality of weed is strictly political, not scientific. Pharmaceutical lobbies have been bribing politicians for years to not support medical marijuana. This is America, if smoking pot makes you happy, then why should any one keep you from doing that? We live in a double standard society, thanks Nixon and Reagan. Anybody in America should be able to grow and smoke pot if they want to in their backyard imo. Regardless of their profession. Just don't drive, go to work, or play with sharp objects when you're at your limit. Just get a whizz kit and wear it to school and work everyday. Or move to a state where you can get a card. A hassle, but until the federal law changes there really isn't any other way around it.

Finally, somebody makes a good argument. Tobacco, alcohol and rx pills are bad, so weed should be legalized.


Air tight stuff..... Its about time somebody made that point.

 

[SpacemanSpifff]

Uh, no: http://jn.sfn.org/press/April-16-2014-Issue/zns01614005529.pdf

The Journal of Neuroscience is hardly political.

I think you would be hard pressed to show that political persuasion and social constructs have no role to play in the legalization of marijuana. I don't think @LdotBlake was implying that marijuana is harmless, simply that there is reasonable evidence showing that it exhibits a comparable toxicity to other substances that are legal.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

I don't think @LdotBlake was implying that marijuana is harmless, simply that there is reasonable evidence showing that it exhibits a comparable toxicity to other substances that are legal.

.....Which is an overused and very ******ed argument.

 

[Wordead]

The law is the law and it's still illegal to the Feds even though 22 states have passed medical marijuana laws. The science says marijuana is less toxic than tobacco, most prescription pills and alcohol. The debates over the legality of weed is strictly political, not scientific. Pharmaceutical lobbies have been bribing politicians for years to not support medical marijuana. This is America, if smoking pot makes you happy, then why should any one keep you from doing that? We live in a double standard society, thanks Nixon and Reagan. Anybody in America should be able to grow and smoke pot if they want to in their backyard imo. Regardless of their profession. Just don't drive, go to work, or play with sharp objects when you're at your limit. Just get a whizz kit and wear it to school and work everyday. Or move to a state where you can get a card. A hassle, but until the federal law changes there really isn't any other way around it.

I think you need to stop doing drugs, man. Seriously. Your thoughts are really, really tangential.

 

[SpacemanSpifff]

.....Which is an overused and very ******ed argument.

I'm not totally disagreeing with your previous statement, I just wanted to point out that the arguments against marijuana legalization are not primarily scientific. Also I would suggest you improve your vocabulary. Pejorative terms for the intellectually disabled aren't great descriptors.

 

[PL198]

The law is the law and it's still illegal to the Feds even though 22 states have passed medical marijuana laws. The science says marijuana is less toxic than tobacco, most prescription pills and alcohol. The debates over the legality of weed is strictly political, not scientific. Pharmaceutical lobbies have been bribing politicians for years to not support medical marijuana. This is America, if smoking pot makes you happy, then why should any one keep you from doing that? We live in a double standard society, thanks Nixon and Reagan. Anybody in America should be able to grow and smoke pot if they want to in their backyard imo. Regardless of their profession. Just don't drive, go to work, or play with sharp objects when you're at your limit. Just get a whizz kit and wear it to school and work everyday. Or move to a state where you can get a card. A hassle, but until the federal law changes there really isn't any other way around it.

Something we've constantly seen marijuana smokers fail to be able to do. What's the number one thing someone does when they are high? Drive to somewhere else to get food.

 

[PL198]

Also lolz at the whole "if smoking pot makes you happy, then why should any one keep you from doing that?" I can think of about 10000 things that make certain people happy, that we certainly don't make legal.

 

[ChrisGriffen]

I'm not totally disagreeing with your previous statement, I just wanted to point out that the arguments against marijuana legalization are not primarily scientific. Also I would suggest you improve your vocabulary. Pejorative terms for the intellectually disabled aren't great descriptors.

You are right. Poor word choice.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

F morality laws, as long as what goes down in my bed is consensual it's none of the govts bidness

Assuming you mean a whole other host of qualifiers along with "consensual", I agree in spirit. However, aren't most laws legislating morality to some degree?

Trying to prevent cheating, stealing, killing, etc?

 

[touchpause13]

Assuming you mean a whole other host of qualifiers along with "consensual", I agree in spirit. However, aren't most laws legislating morality to some degree?

Trying to prevent cheating, stealing, killing, etc?

Consensual= not rape.

I disagree. Most laws should be about protecting citizens. Protecting people from having their property stolen or from being killed/hurt. Morality laws are bull because morality isn't universal and it's a government overreach IMO.

 

[touchpause13]

Something we've constantly seen marijuana smokers fail to be able to do. What's the number one thing someone does when they are high? Drive to somewhere else to get food.

This is why there needs to be a service that you can call and get food from at any restaurant. You want taco bell? Call this company and they will go get you what you want at taco bell and bring it to you for a fee.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

Consensual= not rape.

I disagree. Most laws should be about protecting citizens. Protecting people from having their property stolen or from being killed/hurt. Morality laws are bull because morality isn't universal and it's a government overreach IMO.

You're talking about what should be, I'm talking about what is. But even so, why "protect" people? That's a moral construct too.

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

This is why there needs to be a service that you can call and get food from at any restaurant. You want taco bell? Call this company and they will go get you what you want at taco bell and bring it to you for a fee.

Why are you going to med school, CO has a niche waiting for you to fill.

 

[PL198]

You're protecting people from what society morally deems as wrong. So you're both right.

 

[YoungestBrother]

F you for judging me on my drug of choice while you sit their intoxicated like a child off some byproduct from a goddamn yeast.

First off, that's awesome.

And this is crap. Even if your state legalizes marijuana, why can't physicians smoke it?

Being Drunk lasts for hours, and what's stupid is if you're a drunk and have a problem, you can just not drink for 1 day and be in the clear from any drug test.
Yet, 'just don't come into work drunk' is the common sense principle that makes everything okay.

Being high doesnt last for hours, it's just unfortunate that drugs tests can detect use for several days.
Yet the 'just don't come into work high' idea doesn't fly.

Me smoking a bowl on Saturday and being high for a few hours, hurts no more people than a drunk drinking through the weekend.
We both come into work sober, I just wont be hung over.

I'm going to need to see the receipts on some of these claims. From personal experience I would say that a bong rip has a more potent and more lasting effect than a glass of whiskey. I also disagree with the received wisdom that cannabis use does not produce a hang over. Just because your head doesn't hurt and you don't want to throw up in the morning doesn't mean that you aren't being affected. I know that I personally feel slightly irritable, more prone to anxiety, and mentally slower the day after I have used cannabis, which is why I don't use it anymore.

The real problem is that the majority of our data on cannabis use is purely anecdotal. Until the DEA reschedules the substance, we won't get any concrete research, and we will be making policy decisions based on incomplete information.[/QUOTE][/QUOTE]

 

[WhippleWhileWeWork]

@Anastomoses , you got tricks.

 

[Ionian]

First off, that's awesome.



I'm going to need to see the receipts on some of these claims. From personal experience I would say that a bong rip has a more potent and more lasting effect than a glass of whiskey. I also disagree with the received wisdom that cannabis use does not produce a hang over. Just because your head doesn't hurt and you don't want to throw up in the morning doesn't mean that you aren't being affected. I know that I personally feel slightly irritable, more prone to anxiety, and mentally slower the day after I have used cannabis, which is why I don't use it anymore.

The real problem is that the majority of our data on cannabis use is purely anecdotal. Until the DEA reschedules the substance, we won't get any concrete research, and we will be making policy decisions based on incomplete information.

.

 

[Winged Scapula]

This is why there needs to be a service that you can call and get food from at any restaurant. You want taco bell? Call this company and they will go get you what you want at taco bell and bring it to you for a fee.

That service already exists here (and presumably elsewhere).

 

[PL198]

As a physician or a physician in training, one has to cater to tons of "stupid rules" and things we feel inconvenience us. I don't see how the whole "we should be able to because it's not that bad." Being a doctor is pretty important. Anything that alters your state of mind isn't generally tolerated unless it's therapy.

 

[touchpause13]

That service already exists here (and presumably elsewhere).

I have never seen it but I'm stoked it exists (I'm assuming in bigger cities)

 

[Winged Scapula]

I have never seen it but I'm stoked it exists (I'm assuming in bigger cities)

I'd assume so. I'm in a big city and use this service when I'm being very lazy.

 

[Psai]

This is why there needs to be a service that you can call and get food from at any restaurant. You want taco bell? Call this company and they will go get you what you want at taco bell and bring it to you for a fee.

Seamless?

 

[Brain Bucket]

 

[ChrisGriffen]

View attachment 181860

Smash the beetles