Dui

[ND Domer]

I have a buddy here at Notre Dame who got accepted to Indiana U SOM but got a DUI last weekend. Is there any chance IU would find out and if they did...would they change their minds about letting him start in the fall?

He is pretty flipped out now.

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[cowme]

most medical schools do background checks on their students before they matriculate...So, yes it is quite possible that they withdraw their offer.

 

[BellyDancingDoc]

most medical schools do background checks on their students before they matriculate...So, yes it is quite possible that they withdraw their offer.

^^^ Yes, this poster is correct. In fact, my background check process has already started, so I know this first hand. Your friend may very well have big, big problems.

And, if I may get on my soapbox for a minute (my aunt nearly died thanks to a drunk driver a few years ago), endagering lives is bad, m'kay? Who wants a doctor who would be so callously casual about endangering the lives of those around him? [/end preachyness]

 

[ND Domer]

most medical schools do background checks on their students before they matriculate...So, yes it is quite possible that they withdraw their offer.

Oh man...I was just checking on the IUSOM website and youre right...they do a criminal check before you matriculate. He is in deep ****. Thanks. And...yeah...I always go out with a DD...stupid to put med school and other peoples lives on the line.

 

[kdburton]

I have a buddy here at Notre Dame who got accepted to Indiana U SOM but got a DUI last weekend. Is there any chance IU would find out and if they did...would they change their minds about letting him start in the fall?

He is pretty flipped out now.

I actually gone one over two years ago and have had to write about it on every secondary. I think it has affected my chances at some schools so far - I'm guessing it is probably only that or my late application for why I was rejected at a few schools so far... Anyways, they will eventually find out, so if your friend was already accepted it would be in his best interest to contact someone at the school and explain it to them. Its better they hear it from him right now then through some background check agency (the latter will probably get him kicked out for sure). Anyone else have comments about DUI/med school admission stuff? I'm curious as well...

 

[FutureDR23]

First off, if he got it last weekend then he has only be charged with a DUI. You know you are not guilty until your proven guilty in court. So if the charges are dropped or dismissed, hopefully, his BAC was no higher than 0.09, then he will not be convicted of a DUI, and it shouldnt affect him as much. my advice would be to tell him to get on top of it, and if he has the money to pay for a good lawyer who coulf gey the charges reduced or even better yet, dismissed. Charge is very different from conviction, you could be wrongly charged and accused of murder by complete negligence...not as likely but possible.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Who wants a doctor who would be so callously casual about endangering the lives of those around him?

isn't going about 24 hours without sleep the equivilant of having a BAC of 0.1%...if so, then what does this imply about the fact that residents are taking care of patients in hospitals after having gone that long without sleep. is that just as bad as drunk driving? The intent of the actions in both situations (no tired resident or guy coming home from the bars wants anyone to die due to their reduced ability to perform) is not to do harm, but I think that people should be held accountable for the results of their actions, not their intents (which is the way are legal system works generally, e.g. drunk drivers that kill people deserve severe punishment in my book, even if they didn't "mean to" or lacked self-control).

 

[ND Domer]

First off, if he got it last weekend then he has only be charged with a DUI. You know you are not guilty until your proven guilty in court. So if the charges are dropped or dismissed, hopefully, his BAC was no higher than 0.09, then he will not be convicted of a DUI, and it shouldnt affect him as much. my advice would be to tell him to get on top of it, and if he has the money to pay for a good lawyer who coulf gey the charges reduced or even better yet, dismissed. Charge is very different from conviction, you could be wrongly charged and accused of murder by complete negligence...not as likely but possible.

Yeah...good call...I know he is getting a good lawyer...his dad knows some guy in chicago that is the DUI-lawyer for many professionals in chicago.

 

[DropkickMurphy]

So if the charges are dropped or dismissed, hopefully, his BAC was no higher than 0.09, then he will not be convicted of a DUI

The legal limit in Indiana is 0.08. They tend to not be very friendly to drunk drivers here, so I think the OP (or his friend as the case might actually be) is boned. I hope he is getting a bachelors in something that will get him a job.

 

[gary5]

Please definitely do post an update when you find out what happens (even if it's several months down the line). I'd be interested in knowing if he gets canned for this.

Med schools definitely should do background checks, but I don't know how many do. Your friend might get lucky in terms of timing. Maybe they'll do a background check before the DUI is added to his record. Then again, if he doesn't tell the school and they find out on their own, then I'd expect that they'd drop him for dishonesty / lack of integrity. This is a classic example of having to make a choice without knowing the likely outcome. So the question is . . . having made a mistake, is he going to make more mistakes in trying to cover it up, or is he going to come clean and take responsibility for his actions?

 

[OncoCaP]

There was another guy in a similar situation and he hired a lawyer (actually 2 I think) and got the charges reduced. My guess is that this person who hired the lawyers will get in. For the many details (you might just want to skip to the end), see this thread in the Allo forum:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/showthread.php?t=349023

Your buddy and this other person could probably stay in touch and compare notes. I'm no fan of DUI, but as far as I know, the students with this problem will still be able to get in (just my guess).

 

[arnee005]

OP if your friend thinks he is gonna get convicted, he can have his lawyer just postpone the trial for much later (I've heard this being done for as long as a year)...that way when the school does a background check in the next few weeks/months it won't be on his record yet...not the most ethical way of doing it and if the school does do another check and finds it later then that may screw him

I've got a DUI and have had 3 interviews so far, although I wont hear if I am accepted or not til March...some schools ask about it on the secondary, some don't...and of course that may be why I didn't get offered interviews at some of those schools.

Good luck man, it's not the end of the world, may pose some new challenges but it's still doable.

 

[BellyDancingDoc]

isn't going about 24 hours without sleep the equivilant of having a BAC of 0.1%...if so, then what does this imply about the fact that residents are taking care of patients in hospitals after having gone that long without sleep. is that just as bad as drunk driving? The intent of the actions in both situations (no tired resident or guy coming home from the bars wants anyone to die due to their reduced ability to perform) is not to do harm, but I think that people should be held accountable for the results of their actions, not their intents (which is the way are legal system works generally, e.g. drunk drivers that kill people deserve severe punishment in my book, even if they didn't "mean to" or lacked self-control).

I couldn't agree with you more, QM! I Working for 24 hours w/o sleep is terribly dangerous to one's patients, and it's something I'm already extremely worried about. I've thought about this a fair amount and have decided I'll take the following steps with regard to my residency:

1) I will choose and rank programs according to whether or not they have a night float, how well that night float is used, and how frequently call occurs.

2) When I reach a point at which I can tell my body is starting to shut down due to lack of sleep (this is easy for me to recognize because my basal body temp drops and I start to shiver rather dramatically), I'll tell my attending/fellow resident, "Hey, FYI, my body temp just droped, I'm shivering, and it's clear that my body is trying to shut down. I'm concerned that my capacity to focus will soon be impaired. I know you're busy, but could you please keep an eye on my work?" I'm sure a few (maybe most) people might find this annoying, but I'd rather keep my patients safe than be universally well-liked.

 

[dutchman]

Why is it that it is always someones' buddy's sisters's cousin's nephew's niece that these things always happen to?

 

[BellyDancingDoc]

OP if your friend thinks he is gonna get convicted, he can have his lawyer just postpone the trial for much later (I've heard this being done for as long as a year)...that way when the school does a background check in the next few weeks/months it won't be on his record yet...not the most ethical way of doing it and if the school does do another check and finds it later then that may screw him.

^^^ Nope, this won't work. The friend won't yet have a conviction on his record, but he will have the arrest record to contend with.

 

[OncoCaP]

^^^ Nope, this won't work. The friend won't yet have a conviction on his record, but he will have the arrest record to contend with.

One SDNer checked with his school, and he said they don't always do background checks (up to the school apparently), and if there is an issue they deal with it on a case-by-case basis. Still not a good thing, of course. Schools might vary in this respect.

 

[chad5871]

Med schools definitely should do background checks, but I don't know how many do. Your friend might get lucky in terms of timing. Maybe they'll do a background check before the DUI is added to his record. Then again, if he doesn't tell the school and they find out on their own, then I'd expect that they'd drop him for dishonesty / lack of integrity. This is a classic example of having to make a choice without knowing the likely outcome. So the question is . . . having made a mistake, is he going to make more mistakes in trying to cover it up, or is he going to come clean and take responsibility for his actions?

My pre-med advisor told us that at some point soon in the future, background checks will be a part of the AMCAS application. That way, every school would get the same information, and the applicant would only have to be charged for one background check. I don't know how reliable this information so just take it with a grain of salt.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

My pre-med advisor told us that at some point soon in the future, background checks will be a part of the AMCAS application. That way, every school would get the same information, and the applicant would only have to be charged for one background check. I don't know how reliable this information so just take it with a grain of salt.

we are already only charged for one background check at most...no med school does a background check until you are accepted.

 

[ND Domer]

Why is it that it is always someones' buddy's sisters's cousin's nephew's niece that these things always happen to?

hey man...I would own up to it if it were me...my buddy doesnt post on here, but he was coming to me for help and advice.

 

[RokChalkJayhawk]

I also believe your first DUI, particularly one at a low BAC with no victim results in a misdemeanor. While the med school might be upset about it, they'll probably give him a strong tongue lashing rather than a revoked acceptance.

 

[CardiacIntensivist]

Why is it that it is always someones' buddy's sisters's cousin's nephew's niece that these things always happen to?

Not always someone's relative. There have been plenty of first person accounts but those usually go down in flames.

 

[dugong]

What about speeding tickets and background checks. ive had too many of those.

 

[ND Domer]

What about speeding tickets and background checks. ive had too many of those.

From what I can tell...schools say on their websites that minor traffic violations dont matter...and speeding tickets are minor traffic violations.

 

[pretenda]

Indiana is very tough on drunk drivers. Growing up in Indiana it is the ONE thing they harped on constantly and for good reason. On the other hand, one of my roommates in college (IU) was actually proven innocent of a DUI thanks to a good lawyer and bad police work. He was never breathalyzed, only a filmed field sobriety test that actually proved his innocence, so he was never proven guilty.

 

[kdburton]

First off, if he got it last weekend then he has only be charged with a DUI. You know you are not guilty until your proven guilty in court. So if the charges are dropped or dismissed, hopefully, his BAC was no higher than 0.09, then he will not be convicted of a DUI, and it shouldnt affect him as much. my advice would be to tell him to get on top of it, and if he has the money to pay for a good lawyer who coulf gey the charges reduced or even better yet, dismissed. Charge is very different from conviction, you could be wrongly charged and accused of murder by complete negligence...not as likely but possible.

Just an FYI... First, while it is true that he may only be charged with it at this point, chances are that if he was driving witha BAC above the legal limit that he will be convicted. Second, depending on the type of background check that the school uses (commercial, government, etc.) it may show up that he was charged with the crime either way. Commercial background check companies buy the charges from county courts every day and they are not required by law to remove the data from their databases even if a conviction is not handed down. For example... If I was wrongfully charged with the murder of someone and it was overwhelmingly proven in court that this was the case, it may still show up on a commercial background check that I was charged with murder on such and such date. Moral of the story is that your friend should fess up, because the consequences of him not saying anything and them finding out later may be much more harmful than him telling them before they find out (even if they may never find out).

 

[QuantumMechanic]

Just an FYI... First, while it is true that he may only be charged with it at this point, chances are that if he was driving witha BAC above the legal limit that he will be convicted. Second, depending on the type of background check that the school uses (commercial, government, etc.) it may show up that he was charged with the crime either way. Commercial background check companies buy the charges from county courts every day and they are not required by law to remove the data from their databases even if a conviction is not handed down. For example... If I was wrongfully charged with the murder of someone and it was overwhelmingly proven in court that this was the case, it may still show up on a commercial background check that I was charged with murder on such and such date. Moral of the story is that your friend should fess up, because the consequences of him not saying anything and them finding out later may be much more harmful than him telling them before they find out (even if they may never find out).

still, no conviction= innocent according to the law...I doubt any school would punish an accepted student since they were found innocent of a crime, no matter how serious, in a court of law.

 

[JAK704]

o

 

[riceman04]

^^^ Yes, this poster is correct. In fact, my background check process has already started, so I know this first hand. Your friend may very well have big, big problems.

And, if I may get on my soapbox for a minute (my aunt nearly died thanks to a drunk driver a few years ago), endagering lives is bad, m'kay? Who wants a doctor who would be so callously casual about endangering the lives of those around him? [/end preachyness]

So much for your soapbox...you might as well give every single person in this world one of your soapbox messages. While you hit the nail on the head about drinking and driving, I don't think you realize that many docs are probably worse than that kid most likely will ever be. So why don't you start by finding those crooked docs and lecturing them first.

 

[QuantumMechanic]

I don't think you realize that many docs are probably worse than that kid most likely will ever be. So why don't you start by finding those crooked docs and lecturing them first.

i swear if this turns into an abortion debate I will shoot all the "viable" parties...

 

[pyrois]

So why don't you start by finding those crooked docs and lecturing them first.

Because they're already crooked, and thus won't care about the lecture.

The soapbox message is to attack pre-med students before they become crooked docs.

It's really not okay to drive drunk... at all. Sounds like a public service announcement, but it's really not alright. I personally was hit by a drunk driver while stopped at an intersection. Ironically, because my girlfriend's car was made back in the 80's, its nearly solid steel construction resulted in us just getting a bad case of whiplash, and the drunk driver smashing his head into the dash and getting a concussion and a piece of glass in his eye.

Just thought I'd add that personal experience after reading the whole "why is it always somebody else who blah blah" comment.

 

[pyrois]

on a similar note: does anyone know why some schools require applicants to list not only criminal convictions, but also charges that didnt result in a conviction?

If the crime requires a jury and is a matter that involves monetary compensation, conviction rarely occurs. People simply settle out of court.

Depending on the crime, this may be very significant to a medical school about to accept somebody into their trust circle (and give out keycards to that provide access to the inner sanctums of their hospital/school).

 

[QuantumMechanic]

It's really not okay to drive drunk... at all.

A close friend of mine got a DUI because he was 18 and had a BAC of 0.02%. He's a small guy and only had one beer. I really don't think that your blanket condemnation of drunk driving really does justice in reality since its not the "drunkeness" that causes the wreck, its ultimately the fault of the irresponsible drunk drivers who wreck.

 

[Ryo-Ohki]

still, no conviction= innocent according to the law...I doubt any school would punish an accepted student since they were found innocent of a crime, no matter how serious, in a court of law.

Is that a joke?

http://photos1.blogger.com/x/blogger/2862/372/1600/99636/Listening_Statement_b.jpg

We're turning up the volume in a moment when some of the most vulnerable among us are being asked to quiet down while we wait. To the students speaking individually and to the protestors making collective noise, thank you for not waiting and for making yourselves heard.

 

[riceman04]

Because they're already crooked, and thus won't care about the lecture.

The soapbox message is to attack pre-med students before they become crooked docs.

It's really not okay to drive drunk... at all. Sounds like a public service announcement, but it's really not alright. I personally was hit by a drunk driver while stopped at an intersection. Ironically, because my girlfriend's car was made back in the 80's, its nearly solid steel construction resulted in us just getting a bad case of whiplash, and the drunk driver smashing his head into the dash and getting a concussion and a piece of glass in his eye.

Just thought I'd add that personal experience after reading the whole "why is it always somebody else who blah blah" comment.

What the hell makes you think this person will listen to someone who is most likely trying to find any reason to make it seem as if he/she is a better pre-med candidate than the other.