Ebola outbreak

[cbrons]

March 23, 2014 5:32 PM CONAKRY, Guinea (AP) — Samples from victims of a viral hemorrhagic fever that has killed more than 50 people in Guinea have tested positive for the Ebola virus, government officials said Sunday, marking the first time an outbreak among humans has been detected in this West African nation.

http://news.yahoo.com/ebola-detected-guinea-victims-50-dead-134359136.html

11 hours ago Conakry (AFP) - Aid workers and health officials in Guinea battled Monday to contain west Africa's first outbreak of the deadly Ebola virus as neighboring Liberia reported its first suspected victims.

http://news.yahoo.com/ebola-epidemi...-173304833.html;_ylt=AwrTWfyRVTBT5FgAIcrQtDMD'

One probable case in Canada?

1 hour ago Conakry (AFP) -Health officials in Guinea battled to contain west Africa's first outbreak of the deadly Ebola virus as neighbouring Liberia reported its first suspected victims and a traveler returning to Canada was hospitalised with suspicious symptoms.:

http://news.yahoo.com/possible-ebola-case-canada-health-official-232704327.html

---

Members don't see this ad.

 

[Trogghunter]

I saw on the BBC last night that the virus in the capital city was not Ebola. Not sure how sensitive/specific those tests are, but something is causing hemorrhagic fever if the BBC article was correct.

I do distinctly remember a quote that '<British?> government officials have urged citizens to keep calm and wash their hands with soap'.

 

[Trogghunter]

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-africa-26717490. 2nd line--keep calm and wash with soap

 

[cbrons]

I saw on the BBC last night that the virus in the capital city was not Ebola. Not sure how sensitive/specific those tests are, but something is causing hemorrhagic fever if the BBC article was correct.

I do distinctly remember a quote that '<British?> government officials have urged citizens to keep calm and wash their hands with soap'.

I wonder what it is then. Marburg? I'm assuming it is something worse than Lassa..... ?

 

[Trogghunter]

I'm not an expert, but the sensitivity of rt-pcr for flaviviruses is apparently 'unacceptably low', per this article:

Predicting the sensitivity and specificity of published real-time PCR assays

So maybe it was Ebola, just a different strain. Its poorly characterized and most outbreaks have occurred in the Sudan area, so maybe a duifferent strain. This one was in another part of Africa. Keep calm, wash hands and avoid people bleeding from their orifices.

 

[jdh71]

I'm not an expert, but the sensitivity of rt-pcr for flaviviruses is apparently 'unacceptably low', per this article:

Predicting the sensitivity and specificity of published real-time PCR assays

So maybe it was Ebola, just a different strain. Its poorly characterized and most outbreaks have occurred in the Sudan area, so maybe a duifferent strain. This one was in another part of Africa. Keep calm, wash hands and avoid people bleeding from their orifices.

It boggles my mind how PCR could be "unacceptably low". The major strains have been sequenced, we know the majority preserved parts, and all you need is a 20 base primer . . .

 

[GadRads]

It boggles my mind how PCR could be "unacceptably low". The major strains have been sequenced, we know the majority preserved parts, and all you need is a 20 base primer . . .

True
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/216288-workup

 

[jdh71]

True
http://emedicine.medscape.com/article/216288-workup

I'm not sure what you are saying is true.

Edit: I mean I'm not sure to which you are referring about it being "true"

 

[bakedbeans18]

I'm not leaving my house...ever again.

 

[GadRads]

I'm not sure what you are saying is true.

Edit: I mean I'm not sure to which you are referring about it being "true"

I meant your post. The medscape link agreed that RT-PCR works fine for ebola detection.

 

[Optimus-Prime]

Don't like... The Idea of my own body attacking matrix proteins is quite unsettling.

 

[wholeheartedly]

There was actually a case where a woman here in the US who had Marburg. She was in Denver I think. Funny, I don't recall that making the news and its just as bad as Ebola. The interesting thing is that hemorrhagic fevers where high on the differential given her recent travel, but the initial results came back negative. She wound up requesting a retest after another woman from another country, who visited the same caves she did, died from Marburg.

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/mm5849a2.htm

They are scary diseases, but they spread mostly among family caring for the sick and preparing the bodies and healthcare workers without proper PPE.

 

[bakedbeans18]

I saw on the BBC last night that the virus in the capital city was not Ebola. Not sure how sensitive/specific those tests are, but something is causing hemorrhagic fever if the BBC article was correct.

I do distinctly remember a quote that '<British?> government officials have urged citizens to keep calm and wash their hands with soap'.

 

[Modeselektor]

 

[dyspareunia]

Medical mission trips. Not even once.

 

[bakedbeans18]

Medical mission trips. Not even once.

It really annoys me when someone will play the card of 'you're not compassionate person' because I am not interested in doing a medical mission trip.
We have enough problems stateside. I can be a helpful agent in the community without having to sacrifice my comfort zone...or in the case of ebola, the integrity of my blood vessels.

 

[Anastomoses]

It really annoys me when someone will play the card of 'you're not compassionate person' because I am not interested in doing a medical mission trip.
We have enough problems stateside. I can be a helpful agent in the community without having to sacrifice my comfort zone...or in the case of ebola, the integrity of my blood vessels.

Interesting...when I think of a medical mission trip, I really just think about how much I'll learn and see that I'll never get the chance to view again in our nice pristine little hospitals stateside.

 

[bakedbeans18]

Interesting...when I think of a medical mission trip, I really just think about how much I'll learn and see that I'll never get the chance to view again in our nice pristine little hospitals stateside.

I've had a botfly in me before.
I have zero interest in reaching out beyond the U.S.
This is not to say that I don't feel bad for people that have a drastically different health situation from what we have in the U.S.
But, like I said. I've had a botfly in me before.

 

[Lucca]

Essentially what i learned in my Epidemiology course.

 

[tco]

If the sensitivity is low, and they've tested positive, it doesn't mean that it's not ebola. If the specificity were low and it tested positive, it would mean that it could be something other than ebola...

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk

 

[dyspareunia]

Interesting...when I think of a medical mission trip, I really just think about how much I'll learn and see that I'll never get the chance to view again in our nice pristine little hospitals stateside.

This is exactly the problem. You, like the vast majority of students going on these things, see it as a tourist attraction. They should be renamed medical tourism trips because the "helping people" part is merely a guise used to sound (or feel) special.

If your main goal really is to help people, you should be doing something in your community. Think about all the time it takes to travel to wherever you're going and the money you spend doing it. You could do so much more locally.

If I am ever an interviewer for admissions (med school, residency, whatever) the people I'm interviewing better have a damn good explanation for why they did a medical mission trip or they're going to have a bad time with me.

 

[bakedbeans18]

This is exactly the problem. You, like the vast majority of students going on these things, see it as a tourist attraction. They should be renamed medical tourism trips because the "helping people" part is merely a guise used to sound (or feel) special.

If your main goal really is to help people, you should be doing something in your community. Think about all the time it takes to travel to wherever you're going and the money you spend doing it. You could do so much more locally.

If I am ever an interviewer for admissions (med school, residency, whatever) the people I'm interviewing better have a damn good explanation for why they did a medical mission trip or they're going to have a bad time with me.

"To learn what the problems abroad are."

I don't think is something you'll have an easy time grilling someone over.

 

[Anastomoses]

This is exactly the problem. You, like the vast majority of students going on these things, see it as a tourist attraction. They should be renamed medical tourism trips because the "helping people" part is merely a guise used to sound (or feel) special.

If your main goal really is to help people, you should be doing something in your community. Think about all the time it takes to travel to wherever you're going and the money you spend doing it. You could do so much more locally.

Sure, you can call it a tourist attraction. Or you could call it seeing the problems that used to plague people all over the world and still do...EXCEPT in our pristine environment. I'm not sure what the problem here is... Personally, I don't care if people are deluding themselves into thinking they are doing charity or not. I would be going to see and work on problems I would not be given access to as a medical student in our tort-obsessed society. So sue me.

 

[dyspareunia]

Sure, you can call it a tourist attraction. Or you could call it seeing the problems that used to plague people all over the world and still do...EXCEPT in our pristine environment. I'm not sure what the problem here is... Personally, I don't care if people are deluding themselves into thinking they are doing charity or not. I would be going to see and work on problems I would not be given access to as a medical student in our tort-obsessed society. So sue me.

You know nothing as an MS1 on a mission trip and you wouldn't be fixing anything you couldn't fix here. You've seen pictures and heard stories of these things from friends I'm sure.. they show up, give out vitamins, bandage some abscesses, take a bunch of pictures with the native people and then head home.

The fact that you think people here in our "pristine environment" aren't suffering from the same things you will actually see and "treat" abroad shows just how out of touch you are with the healthcare status of this country.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

Interesting...when I think of a medical mission trip, I really just think about how much I'll learn and see that I'll never get the chance to view again in our nice pristine little hospitals stateside.

Didn't you end a friendship because your friend had lice?

 

[Anastomoses]

You know nothing as an MS1 on a mission trip and you wouldn't be fixing anything you couldn't fix here. You've seen pictures and heard stories of these things from friends I'm sure.. they show up, give out vitamins, bandage some abscesses, take a bunch of pictures with the native people and then head home.

The fact that you think people here in our "pristine environment" aren't suffering from the same things you will actually see and "treat" abroad shows just how out of touch you are with the healthcare status of this country.

Sorry, who is MS1?

And what you're talking about is seriously out of your ass. I haven't been on a medical mission trip but I've spent a few months in two different destitute third world countries in clinic...and I most certainly got access to patients and touched and played with people I'd never be able to get access to here in the US. A frequency of typhoid, some polio, and hepatitis B and C, pterygium, herpes zoster on the facial dermatomes - just non-stop among others. How can you say someone wouldn't learn from seeing all that? In third world countries you don't have to "just shadow" either. you get to do!

Didn't you end a friendship because your friend had lice?

Were you about to make some kind of point or just making poor assumptions with your limited brain calculating ability?

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

Were you about to make some kind of point or just making poor assumptions with your limited brain calculating ability?

I think the point was clear to everyone but you.

 

[Elisabeth Kate]

You might actually be a genuine idiot. Either that or you have a terrible memory. I never ended a friendship because a girl had lice. Try again.

Missing these essential details in your work could cost a patient's life. fyi.

If you say so...

 

[music2doc]

If you say so...

I think she is referring to the fact that after considering whether she should:
A) physically kill her friend
B) socially & emotionally kill her friend
C) "defriend" her friend; or
D) socially isolate her friend for awhile,
she ultimately went with D and just passive-aggressively ignored this other girl until her "punishment" (read: time of relief from the anastomotic flow of toxins into her life) was over. So, technically, she continues to be a parasite on this poor girl's life force.

Sorry, who is MS1?

And what you're talking about is seriously out of your ass. I haven't been on a medical mission trip but I've spent a few months in two different destitute third world countries in clinic...and I most certainly got access to patients and touched and played with people I'd never be able to get access to here in the US. A frequency of typhoid, some polio, and hepatitis B and C, pterygium, herpes zoster on the facial dermatomes - just non-stop among others. How can you say someone wouldn't learn from seeing all that? In third world countries you don't have to "just shadow" either. you get to do!




Were you about to make some kind of point or just making poor assumptions with your limited brain calculating ability?

What year are you actually? I recall quite a few comments that made me think "pre-med," which usually equates to either M0 or M1 via a guaranteed admit program...

 

[cbrons]

You know nothing as an MS1 on a mission trip and you wouldn't be fixing anything you couldn't fix here. You've seen pictures and heard stories of these things from friends I'm sure.. they show up, give out vitamins, bandage some abscesses, take a bunch of pictures with the native people and then head home.

The fact that you think people here in our "pristine environment" aren't suffering from the same things you will actually see and "treat" abroad shows just how out of touch you are with the healthcare status of this country.

Shots fired @n@st0m0s1s!n!b


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile

 

[cbrons]

What year are you actually? I recall quite a few comments that made me think "pre-med," which usually equates to either M0 or M1 via a guaranteed admit program...

Anastomosis is a girl right? I thought she was a girl. Chachachacha.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile

 

[Modeselektor]

I still remember taking my friend to the emergency room, his hand neatly sliced in two with a sword from between the knuckles to the wrist, looking like some grotesque surrealist painting.

Another high yield concept is coming to the realization that the police are responsible for more of the local raping than any predator, and that no age is safe from it. Also, just don't go near the police. Not even if you're being attacked, and especially if you have a female with you. Expect to see how pointless the NGO efforts are, having a ****ty box of 25 types of drugs of dubious quality with which to manage an entire village. Preventative measures will quickly become the only thing you can utilize effectively, but will be undermined by the local alternative health practitioner, who sees your western medicine as evil and full of toxins (hilariously this is spreading here as well). American surgeons will come down every once in a while to do charity work, which is cool, except most of these referrals will be people who are actually quite well off financially in cities, as it will be those hospitals who are in charge of the selection. Meanwhile in your village the people who need the work and can't afford never even know its there and you find out about it after everyone's gone home. Hell, half of the people on anti-TB protocols aren't even told about the free medication at the local DOTS center.

Patient encounters include seeing someone come up to with a tumor the size of a god damn grapefruit and knowing that sending them to the regional health center will only accomplish wasting what little the patient earns on a trip there. Meanwhile politicians drive by in public funded Mercedes, stopping routinely to promise the local masses improvement, while ensuring that these people receive no education and no birth control, because the easiest way to dictate democracy is to have an under-educated, easily swayed, alcohol addicted and enlarging population to make the vote of the aware worthless.

These are the sorts of clinical pearls a proper medical mission have supplied me with.

 

[alwaysastudent]

Are you drunk? You sound drunk.

It IS Friday night. Can ya blame him? lol

 

[cbrons]

Are you drunk? You sound drunk.

no, just bored. I get a kick out you kids fighting.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile

 

[cbrons]

I still remember taking my friend to the emergency room, his hand neatly sliced in two with a sword from between the knuckles to the wrist, looking like some grotesque surrealist painting.

Another high yield concept is coming to the realization that the police are responsible for more of the local raping than any predator, and that no age is safe from it. Also, just don't go near the police. Not even if you're being attacked, and especially if you have a female with you. Expect to see how pointless the NGO efforts are, having a ****** box of 25 types of drugs of dubious quality with which to manage an entire village. Preventative measures will quickly become the only thing you can utilize effectively, but will be undermined by the local alternative health practitioner, who sees your western medicine as evil and full of toxins (hilariously this is spreading here as well). American surgeons will come down every once in a while to do charity work, which is cool, except most of these referrals will be people who are actually quite well off financially in cities, as it will be those hospitals who are in charge of the selection. Meanwhile in your village the people who need the work and can't afford never even know its there and you find out about it after everyone's gone home. Hell, half of the people on anti-TB protocols aren't even told about the free medication at the local DOTS center.

Patient encounters include seeing someone come up to with a tumor the size of a god damn grapefruit and knowing that sending them to the regional health center will only accomplish wasting what little the patient earns on a trip there. Meanwhile politicians drive by in public funded Mercedes, stopping routinely to promise the local masses improvement, while ensuring that these people receive no education and no birth control, because the easiest way to dictate democracy is to have an under-educated, easily swayed, alcohol addicted and enlarging population to make the vote of the aware worthless.

These are the sorts of clinical pearls a proper medical mission have supplied me with.

Haha isnt it funny how the anti intellectualism of the country is so high that people are actually adopting the health practices of the turd world toilet bowls and the peasant shamans? Grown men denouncing germ theory and taking their unvaccinated spawn off to some local histrionic witch for "adrenal fatigue". Absolutely cracks me up.. But as HL Mencken once said, "No one ever went broke underestimating the stupidity of the American people."



Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile

 

[Modeselektor]

Haha isnt it funny how the anti intellectualism of the country is so high that people are actually adopting the health practices of the turd world toilet bowls and the peasant shamans? Grown men denouncing germ theory and taking their unvaccinated spawn off to some local histrionic witch for "adrenal fatigue". Absolutely cracks me up.. But as HL Mencken once said, "No one ever went broke underestimating the stupidity of the American people."



Sent from my iPhone using SDN Mobile

It pisses me off, but I know that it's all self-limiting. Once a serious outbreak hits and all the unvaccinated kiddies start pushing up daisies, people will temporarily wake up for a couple generations. Till then, they'll be avoiding vaccines, aspartame, gluten, root vegetables and chasing their liquor with colloidal silver while their rag-covered enlightened holistic aromatherapist prescribes ample vitamin C and laughs all the way to the bank.

 

[MaximusD]

You might actually be a genuine idiot. Either that or you have a terrible memory. I never ended a friendship because a girl had lice. Try again.

Missing these essential details in your work could cost a patient's life. fyi.

Isn't this Godwin's law of SDN? "YOURE GONNA BE A BAD DOC BC ...BSBSBS"

 

[Anastomoses]

Isn't this Godwin's law of SDN? "YOURE GONNA BE A BAD DOC BC ...BSBSBS"

No. This is more precise than that. She misquoted essential details.

 

[Mad Jack]

You know nothing as an MS1 on a mission trip and you wouldn't be fixing anything you couldn't fix here. You've seen pictures and heard stories of these things from friends I'm sure.. they show up, give out vitamins, bandage some abscesses, take a bunch of pictures with the native people and then head home.

The fact that you think people here in our "pristine environment" aren't suffering from the same things you will actually see and "treat" abroad shows just how out of touch you are with the healthcare status of this country.

Sure, MS-1s are pretty useless, but exposing them to that sort of stuff early on might be a catalyst for them to provide care overseas once they are fully trained physicians. You also get to see many diseases that do not exist in the good 'ol USA like malaria, cholera, and various forms of parasites.

Personally I would prefer doing overseas volunteer work to volunteering domestically just so I could dodge all of the paperwork, liability, and bureaucracy of the American medical system. You can provide care for a far greater number of people in a shorter time and at less cost with minimal financial risk. It's a win across the board really.

 

[dyspareunia]

Sorry, who is MS1?

And what you're talking about is seriously out of your ass. I haven't been on a medical mission trip but I've spent a few months in two different destitute third world countries in clinic...and I most certainly got access to patients and touched and played with people I'd never be able to get access to here in the US. A frequency of typhoid, some polio, and hepatitis B and C, pterygium, herpes zoster on the facial dermatomes - just non-stop among others. How can you say someone wouldn't learn from seeing all that? In third world countries you don't have to "just shadow" either. you get to do!

I understand that you "get to do". I was saying that the things you get to do are not going to be much different or more significant than the things you get to do here in a clinic (vitals, suture, bandage, etc).

You don't think there are tons of patients in the US with HBV and HSV/VZV? Typhoid, polio, etc would be cool to see... not arguing with you there.

I think a lot of people think they have to go abroad to see interesting or rare things because they haven't spent time outside of their middle-class (or better) community. You'd be surprised what you find in underserved areas right here at home.

Sure, MS-1s are pretty useless, but exposing them to that sort of stuff early on might be a catalyst for them to provide care overseas once they are fully trained physicians. You also get to see many diseases that do not exist in the good 'ol USA like malaria, cholera, and various forms of parasites.

Personally I would prefer doing overseas volunteer work to volunteering domestically just so I could dodge all of the paperwork, liability, and bureaucracy of the American medical system. You can provide care for a far greater number of people in a shorter time and at less cost with minimal financial risk. It's a win across the board really.

I disagree. Would you agree that traveling to these sites is typically at least 24 hours (round-trip) in a plane? Not to mention the amount of time you sit in the airport, go through customs, etc etc. So that's at least a day and a half spent helping absolutely no one. Now what about the cost? My friends who are going on these things have said they are spending anywhere from $1500-$4k on travel.. maybe more on getting whatever extra vaccinations you need.

So, 12 hours and $2000 later you finally get to your third-world country site. Now you spend half a day getting settled, meeting the staff, and figuring out what the hell is going on. Now you've spent 2 days total helping absolutely no one. So you stay for a few weeks, get some stuff done, take some pictures, etc etc. Then you spend another half day saying goodbye, thanking people, whatever. 2.5 whole days helping no one.

Now, I don't know about your personal surroundings or community, but where I am there are tons of free clinics that see 50+ uninsured, homeless, or otherwise underserved patients everyday. Sure, you probably won't see polio or weird parasites, but that doesn't mean these patients don't need help too. Also, there's no financial risk for pre-meds and MS1s anywhere.

So if you want to go on a trip to see cool ****, by all means please do that. Just don't tell me that I'm an uncaring dbag because I prioritize domestic healthcare over maybe treating 50 (being liberal here) parasite infested patients in a third-world country with hundreds of thousands of parasite infected patients.

I'm not arguing that there are benefits to going abroad. I'm arguing that going abroad to "help people" is a bs reason because you can have a much bigger impact in your local community than you can overseas.

 

[Mad Jack]

I disagree. Would you agree that traveling to these sites is typically at least 24 hours (round-trip) in a plane? Not to mention the amount of time you sit in the airport, go through customs, etc etc. So that's at least a day and a half spent helping absolutely no one. Now what about the cost? My friends who are going on these things have said they are spending anywhere from $1500-$4k on travel.. maybe more on getting whatever extra vaccinations you need.

So, 12 hours and $2000 later you finally get to your third-world country site. Now you spend half a day getting settled, meeting the staff, and figuring out what the hell is going on. Now you've spent 2 days total helping absolutely no one. So you stay for a few weeks, get some stuff done, take some pictures, etc etc. Then you spend another half day saying goodbye, thanking people, whatever. 2.5 whole days helping no one.

Now, I don't know about your personal surroundings or community, but where I am there are tons of free clinics that see 50+ uninsured, homeless, or otherwise underserved patients everyday. Sure, you probably won't see polio or weird parasites, but that doesn't mean these patients don't need help too. Also, there's no financial risk for pre-meds and MS1s anywhere.

So if you want to go on a trip to see cool ****, by all means please do that. Just don't tell me that I'm an uncaring dbag because I prioritize domestic healthcare over maybe treating 50 (being liberal here) parasite infested patients in a third-world country with hundreds of thousands of parasite infected patients.

You can have a much bigger impact in your local community than you can overseas.

I used to do organizational work for medical missions. They saw way more than 50 patients a day. Medical students, translators, and nurses would be used to gather info and vitals, after which the patients would be placed in a line. With all of the prelim work done, a lot of the physicians would see 10 patients an hour in a good hour, dawn till dusk. A lot of the complaints were simple, and required a quick fix. Procedures would eat up more time, but patients requiring procedural work were placed in a separate line to not slow down the more easily dealt with medical issues. They were without a doubt seeing far more patients per day than a physician in the US. And no time was pissed away on paperwork aside from a simple one page form that was mostly filled out prior to the patient meeting with the physician. The flight is usually the biggest cost- aid groups will provide you with everything else you need. I'd consider a couple grand a worthwhile sum to provide a group in need with a physician for two months.

I was saying that it would be more worthwhile -as a physician- to fo volunteer work overseas. The two days you lose to flying doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot if you're doing a 2 or 3 month stint. You won't get sued if something goes wrong. You get to practice pure medicine without all of the paperwork hassles that have sucked the joy from the profession. You get to see people that have often never seen a physician in their lives- to compare the lack of access to care in rural Africa or South America to the lack of access the poor have in the United States is asinine. And I stand by my statement that exposure to mission work is a positive experience for medical students. Students are more likely to engage in volunteer work abroad if they've been exposed to it in the past- it demystifies the nature of such work and gives them a good idea of what they are in for and the difference they can make should they choose to later engage in it.

 

[dyspareunia]

I used to do organizational work for medical missions. They saw way more than 50 patients a day. Medical students, translators, and nurses would be used to gather info and vitals, after which the patients would be placed in a line. With all of the prelim work done, a lot of the physicians would see 10 patients an hour in a good hour, dawn till dusk. A lot of the complaints were simple, and required a quick fix. Procedures would eat up more time, but patients requiring procedural work were placed in a separate line to not slow down the more easily dealt with medical issues. They were without a doubt seeing far more patients per day than a physician in the US. And no time was pissed away on paperwork aside from a simple one page form that was mostly filled out prior to the patient meeting with the physician. The flight is usually the biggest cost- aid groups will provide you with everything else you need. I'd consider a couple grand a worthwhile sum to provide a group in need with a physician for two months.

I was saying that it would be more worthwhile -as a physician- to fo volunteer work overseas. The two days you lose to flying doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot if you're doing a 2 or 3 month stint. You won't get sued if something goes wrong. You get to practice pure medicine without all of the paperwork hassles that have sucked the joy from the profession. You get to see people that have often never seen a physician in their lives- to compare the lack of access to care in rural Africa or South America to the lack of access the poor have in the United States is asinine. And I stand by my statement that exposure to mission work is a positive experience for medical students. Students are more likely to engage in volunteer work abroad if they've been exposed to it in the past- it demystifies the nature of such work and gives them a good idea of what they are in for and the difference they can make should they choose to later engage in it.

I agree that it is worthwhile for a physician to go abroad for a few months to work for the reasons you state; less paperwork, less red-tape, more services. Everything I've been saying is in regard to pre-meds and MS1s. I also agree that the differences in access between a third world country and poor areas in the US are vast. The level of care necessary in those countries, however, is much beyond the abilities of students. Because of that, what a student does in S.Am/Africa are no more useful than what a student does locally. We simply aren't capable of being significant (anywhere, really).

However, I maintain the sentiment that a 1-2 week medical mission trip (in my experience this is the usual duration of such things) for students is more for the experience of going abroad and seeing things and less about actually helping people in a productive manner. And in my opinion there's nothing wrong with doing it for the experience. I am just thoroughly annoyed with my classmates who say, or honestly think, that they're going abroad to save the dying children in Africa and that people who choose not to go on mission trips are jerks who don't care about people.

My stance all along has simply been that students who say they're going abroad to "help people" are either misinformed, in denial, or lying. Our skills and knowledge are minimal and quite honestly we are no more valuable in a clinical setting than a lay person who receives the same crash course upon arrival; "Our" and "we" referring to MS1s.

 

[Mad Jack]

I agree that it is worthwhile for a physician to go abroad for a few months to work for the reasons you state; less paperwork, less red-tape, more services. Everything I've been saying is in regard to pre-meds and MS1s. I also agree that the differences in access between a third world country and poor areas in the US are vast. The level of care necessary in those countries, however, is much beyond the abilities of students. Because of that, what a student does in S.Am/Africa are no more useful than what a student does locally. We simply aren't capable of being significant (anywhere, really).

However, I maintain the sentiment that a 1-2 week medical mission trip (in my experience this is the usual duration of such things) for students is more for the experience of going abroad and seeing things and less about actually helping people in a productive manner. And in my opinion there's nothing wrong with doing it for the experience. I am just thoroughly annoyed with my classmates who say, or honestly think, that they're going abroad to save the dying children in Africa and that people who choose not to go on mission trips are jerks who don't care about people.

My stance all along has simply been that students who say they're going abroad to "help people" are either misinformed, in denial, or lying. Our skills and knowledge are minimal and quite honestly we are no more valuable in a clinical setting than a lay person who receives the same crash course upon arrival; "Our" and "we" referring to MS1s.

Any MS1 that thinks they'll be saving lives left and right on some overseas volunteer experience is oblivious to their own ineptitude. Such trips aren't about saving lives, but rather seeing what volunteer care in a developing country is like while one is still within the safe confines of medical education and decide if it might be in the cards for them down the road. Once you graduate, going on such a visit will involve an actual commitment to provide services. If you've never seen what such an environment is like first hand, that is a hefty commitment to blindly make. Overseas volunteer work is thus (while not the best short term use of resources) still an excellent activity for a medical student to engage in.

 

[Anastomoses]

I agree that it is worthwhile for a physician to go abroad for a few months to work for the reasons you state; less paperwork, less red-tape, more services. Everything I've been saying is in regard to pre-meds and MS1s. I also agree that the differences in access between a third world country and poor areas in the US are vast. The level of care necessary in those countries, however, is much beyond the abilities of students. Because of that, what a student does in S.Am/Africa are no more useful than what a student does locally. We simply aren't capable of being significant (anywhere, really).

However, I maintain the sentiment that a 1-2 week medical mission trip (in my experience this is the usual duration of such things) for students is more for the experience of going abroad and seeing things and less about actually helping people in a productive manner. And in my opinion there's nothing wrong with doing it for the experience. I am just thoroughly annoyed with my classmates who say, or honestly think, that they're going abroad to save the dying children in Africa and that people who choose not to go on mission trips are jerks who don't care about people.

My stance all along has simply been that students who say they're going abroad to "help people" are either misinformed, in denial, or lying. Our skills and knowledge are minimal and quite honestly we are no more valuable in a clinical setting than a lay person who receives the same crash course upon arrival; "Our" and "we" referring to MS1s.

Oh. Well, in that case we're in agreement. I'm well aware that running off to a third world country would be for my own benefit, not for "helping others". I forgot that as med students we have to pretend that we all joined medicine with the singular pursuit of helping humanity. And not just that we find biological/pathological mechanisms fascinating and wish to work with that.

 

[Bryan O’Blivion]

I used to do organizational work for medical missions. They saw way more than 50 patients a day. Medical students, translators, and nurses would be used to gather info and vitals, after which the patients would be placed in a line. With all of the prelim work done, a lot of the physicians would see 10 patients an hour in a good hour, dawn till dusk. A lot of the complaints were simple, and required a quick fix. Procedures would eat up more time, but patients requiring procedural work were placed in a separate line to not slow down the more easily dealt with medical issues. They were without a doubt seeing far more patients per day than a physician in the US. And no time was pissed away on paperwork aside from a simple one page form that was mostly filled out prior to the patient meeting with the physician. The flight is usually the biggest cost- aid groups will provide you with everything else you need. I'd consider a couple grand a worthwhile sum to provide a group in need with a physician for two months.

I was saying that it would be more worthwhile -as a physician- to fo volunteer work overseas. The two days you lose to flying doesn't mean a whole hell of a lot if you're doing a 2 or 3 month stint. You won't get sued if something goes wrong. You get to practice pure medicine without all of the paperwork hassles that have sucked the joy from the profession. You get to see people that have often never seen a physician in their lives- to compare the lack of access to care in rural Africa or South America to the lack of access the poor have in the United States is asinine. And I stand by my statement that exposure to mission work is a positive experience for medical students. Students are more likely to engage in volunteer work abroad if they've been exposed to it in the past- it demystifies the nature of such work and gives them a good idea of what they are in for and the difference they can make should they choose to later engage in it.

I agree with this in its entirety. I found the patient interactions more enjoyable than I did in my clerkship an American ED as well. People were appreciative, seldom is there secondary gain. The lack of resources is challenging and can be frustrating, but forces you to make great use out of what you do have available.

Having clinical training (post M3) will make the experience better in terms of your usefulness and your learning, but I wouldn't discourage anyone from volunteering abroad.

 

[calvnandhobbs68]

I suppose we've forgotten about the Ebola outbreak that's going to kill us all at this point....

 

[cbrons]

http://news.yahoo.com/ebola-outbreak-guinea-unprecedented-epidemic-150950731.html

Conakry (AFP) - Aid organisation Doctors Without Borders said Monday an Ebola outbreak suspected of killing dozens in Guinea was an "unprecedented epidemic" as Liberia confirmed its first cases of the deadly contagion.
Guinea's health ministry this year has reported 122 "suspicious cases" of viral haemorrhagic fever, including 78 deaths, with 22 of the samples taken from patients testing positive for the highly contagious tropical pathogen.

"We are facing an epidemic of a magnitude never before seen in terms of the distribution of cases in the country: Gueckedou, Macenta, Kissidougou, Nzerekore, and now Conakry," Mariano Lugli, the organisation's coordinator in the Guinean capital, said in a statement.