Effect of med school choice on my chances for radiology?

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BPlaysItCool

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Thanks for humoring this noob thread.

I have been wait listed at Tulane. And am in at an unranked--not that a give a crap about ranking--state school. Both are similar in cost for me.

Through extensive clinical experience in my current career I feel I have already progressed to stage 2 or 3 on the Apache Indian scoring system. And have thus developed a keen interest in all things Radiology-like.

I know I'm way too early for this but it's just I'm an average cat academics wise and I want to know what I'm in for to swim up stream to get a spot in Radiology.

Does choice of medical school have even a small effect on one's shot for rads?

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Thanks for humoring this noob thread.

I have been wait listed at Tulane. And am in at an unranked--not that a give a crap about ranking--state school. Both are similar in cost for me.

Through extensive clinical experience in my current career I feel I have already progressed to stage 2 or 3 on the Apache Indian scoring system. And have thus developed a keen interest in all things Radiology-like.

I know I'm way too early for this but it's just I'm an average cat academics wise and I want to know what I'm in for to swim up stream to get a spot in Radiology.

Does choice of medical school have even a small effect on one's shot for rads?

only if you want to go to academic/prestigious rads residency... otherwise grades/steps/LORs are more important.
 
only if you want to go to academic/prestigious rads residency... otherwise grades/steps/LORs are more important.

Cool. Thanks. Now given that. Tulane's pre-clinical curriculum is pass/fail. Will something like this be an advantage for focusing studying more towards board exams?

I hate meandering phd instruction when professional career goals are more important. I want to focus my pre-clinical years directly at the Step 1 exam given its importance and my distinctly average test-taking ability. 32 MCAT.

Do certain curriculum styles enable better Step 1 prep.?
 
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1) ...pass/fail. Will something like this be an advantage for focusing studying more towards board exams?

2) Do certain curriculum styles enable better Step 1 prep.?

1) Yes, for the most part. Much of the material that is taught in the pre-clinical years at most medical schools is not directly applicable to Step I. If you choose to go to a P/F school and use your time to focus on high-yield material instead of memorizing rat facts, then it will most certainly benefit you in your prep for Step I.

2) Do what works best for you. For what it's worth, many of the PBL systems out there seem to produce more mediocre board scores. In the end, your Step I performance is going to depend much more on you than it does the program you attend.
 
FWIW, I go to a school whose average is consistently the national average, and I felt very well prepared for step 1. You should be well prepared no matter where you go.

Ultimately your score will depend on your effort and ability.
 
Cool. Thanks. Now given that. Tulane's pre-clinical curriculum is pass/fail. Will something like this be an advantage for focusing studying more towards board exams?

I hate meandering phd instruction when professional career goals are more important. I want to focus my pre-clinical years directly at the Step 1 exam given its importance and my distinctly average test-taking ability. 32 MCAT.

Do certain curriculum styles enable better Step 1 prep.?

FWIW, I had a similar MCAT, went to a middle of the road med school who's step 1 is consistently slighly lower than national mean , where it was H/P/F the first 2 years, only studied the notes they gave us, and studied step 1 & 2 stuff a few weeks before the exams and did very well on them. Your scores will mostly depend on you.
 
Thanks you guys. I can now not worry about it and just pick the school that is the most comfortable fit.

I look forward to reading your posts as you venture ahead of me into this cool specialty.
 
I don't think school name matters much (though it is admittedly impossible to know the selection committee's reasoning behind giving/not giving you an interview). But besides, even if there is an additional bump school name might give would probably just be for the top 10 or 20 places. When I was choosing schools, I personally didn't give much thought into the rank of the school unless it was a top 10, and even then it's only one factor among several. So definitely go wherever you feel is the best fit for you.
 
Cool. Thanks. Now given that. Tulane's pre-clinical curriculum is pass/fail. Will something like this be an advantage for focusing studying more towards board exams?

I hate meandering phd instruction when professional career goals are more important. I want to focus my pre-clinical years directly at the Step 1 exam given its importance and my distinctly average test-taking ability. 32 MCAT.

Do certain curriculum styles enable better Step 1 prep.?

where you go means some, but as long as it's a US-MD school, all doors are open. There should be some regional bias: OOS michigan grads matching better in midwest, tulane grads matching better in south, NYC grads and NY. MSIII grades, Step I, quality of research matter much more. Don't worry about pre-clinical grades: pass/fail or whatever, they mean very little. How well you do is really independent of your school and it's curriculum, no matter how hard med schools try to sell themselves. PBL may set you back though lol.

32 is a great mcat score.
 
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As long as you attend a US MD school, you can match even at MGH.

You have a uphill climb if you're DO. Harder still if you're FMG.
 
Taurus, how much of an uphill climb will it be for me as a DO who is thinking about only applying to ACGME rads residencies? If you had to guesstimate, how many points better would I have to do better on USMLE Step1/Step2 in order to be competitive, or how many more places would I have to apply to?

As a DO, would you say that the USMLE's become more important, or are LOR's from known faculty more of a key factor?
 
Taurus, how much of an uphill climb will it be for me as a DO who is thinking about only applying to ACGME rads residencies? If you had to guesstimate, how many points better would I have to do better on USMLE Step1/Step2 in order to be competitive, or how many more places would I have to apply to?

As a DO, would you say that the USMLE's become more important, or are LOR's from known faculty more of a key factor?

USMLE's are usually more important than LOR's because most LOR's are full of BS praise so you can't discern enough about an applicant.

As a general rule, the better the school you're from, the more you can get away with. If you're from Harvard med, you can probably score 200 on step 1 and still match at a decent program. On the flip side, there are many FMG's who score 250+ on both steps 1 and 2, get interviews, but go unmatched. Use this as a road map: for the most recent cycle that the average step 1 was 238 and 242 for step 2 and MD > DO >> FMG.
 
If you're from Harvard med, you can probably score 200 on step 1 and still match at a decent program.

Careful. We've had a couple of MD/PhDs from our top-5 med school over the past few years with better than 200 step 1 scores and average medical school performance that either matched lower tier or not at all.
 
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i'm a Do going through the match right now.

usmle is very important. you need to crush step 1 and step 2. try and get 250+ and you'll have no worries when u apply. there are well over 50+ rads programs that will interview/take DO's. if you get that high on the steps and u apply to these places you'll definetily get 10+ interviews. do a couple aways, and now ure at 12+ interviews. there you go-now you'll probably match.

i completely disagree on LoR's. great (not good) LoR's can really set you apart, esp. from chairs of depts. or bignames in the field. think about it-if Resnick writes an applicant a letter that says, "this dude's poop does not stink", then that carries a lot of weight.

good luck
 
would also agree with taurus' general rule of thumb.

the better the med school you come from, the weaker your application can be and you'll match.

to prove this:

i know an IMG at a community hospital in an internal medicine residency. his scores:

step 1: 266 step 2: 262 step 3: 260

he applied to 155 medicine programs-got 6 interviews, ended up matching to his number 6 choice.

moral is, if you're a DO, like me, you're really going to have to prove yourself to attract some attention from these PD's.
 
would also agree with taurus' general rule of thumb.

the better the med school you come from, the weaker your application can be and you'll match.

to prove this:

i know an IMG at a community hospital in an internal medicine residency. his scores:

step 1: 266 step 2: 262 step 3: 260

he applied to 155 medicine programs-got 6 interviews, ended up matching to his number 6 choice.

moral is, if you're a DO, like me, you're really going to have to prove yourself to attract some attention from these PD's.

they lied about their scores. i know an IMG with similar scores in rad onc and another one in rads :-/

...or perhaps they have something else terribly wrong with their application, i.e. can't speak english.
 
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Thanks for your reply, docmd2010. For any DO's out there that may be considering ACGME rads in the future, can you give your general impressions of the interview atmosphere towards DO's and any regional biases? Did you apply to any places in the West? I've heard that PD's in the Midwest and East coast tend to be more friendly to DO's, and that California is pretty DO-unfriendly, even if one is from there and goes to med school there. Your thoughts?
 
I think it's hard to judge DO "bias" in Rads. Very few DO's even apply to rads, so it's difficult to tell just how bad things really are. From what I've read over the last few years, it seems that getting ~10 points higher than the mean matched USMLE score is a good rule of thumb. But this changes every year...

Who knows how competitive rads will be in 2 or 3 years...

My DO school match all 4 of our MD rads applicants last year, all on the east coast. Not sure if they wanted west coast though. I get the sense that east coast if more DO friendly though. Mid west is fairly ok too. Lots of DO's in Michigan, Illinois, Ohio.

Also, I know it's "frowned upon" but don't forget the DO match. A few decent DO programs do exist...
 
Thanks for your reply, docmd2010. For any DO's out there that may be considering ACGME rads in the future, can you give your general impressions of the interview atmosphere towards DO's and any regional biases? Did you apply to any places in the West? I've heard that PD's in the Midwest and East coast tend to be more friendly to DO's, and that California is pretty DO-unfriendly, even if one is from there and goes to med school there. Your thoughts?
235/98 USMLE, 677 COMLEX. Applied to 85 Allopathic programs, mostly east coast, southern, midwest, and southwest, none in CA. Only five interviews between states of NJ, NY, CT.
 
Congrats on the interviews! Wow, it really looks like the competition is stiff out there. How many of those 5 interviews were from audition rotations?

Best of luck, and hopefully you will match where you want!
 
Totally agree with the above post on LORs. Although none of mine were from "big name" people, they were all very good. They cited specific experiences I had with attendings. LORs are tricky, you have to ask the right person who knows how to write them. Also, you can't be an A**hole. I don't think I am anything special I just got lucky and ended up with 3 really good letters.

First thing first, you have to do well on the USMLE or they won't look at the rest of your application. I don't think you have to kill it, just do well. I am a 4th year and I applied to 65 MD programs mostly midwest, some east coast, and all west programs except cali, which is not many. 230 step I, 248 step II, only 2 audition rotations and I have interviews at both. I have 12 interviews and a couple of waitlists mostly midwest programs, 3 east coast, and one western program. I got about half of the invites before my step II results came back so I don't think you have to get 250+. Good luck, go after you dreams. I am still nervous about my chances.
 
Are you doing med school in the midwest, ironmaidenrules? And is it MD or DO? I'm just trying to gauge the level of regional bias.

And wow, way to rack up those interviews! Congrats and good luck in the match, although I doubt you'll need it. :thumbup:
 
Is that number final, or are there interviews still being offered at this point? Holy smokes.
Unfortunately still only the 5 at this point. Hoping for at least a couple more over next 2 weeks. Guess I will keep my fingers crossed.
 
I don't think the school makes a huge difference on if you get into radiology. NYMC is not a top 40 med school and they place more students into radiology than probably any other med school in the nation........ Or maybe NYMC is very good at placing students into radiology, so therefore, the school does matter. I've confused myself.
 
I don't think the school makes a huge difference on if you get into radiology. NYMC is not a top 40 med school and they place more students into radiology than probably any other med school in the nation........ Or maybe NYMC is very good at placing students into radiology, so therefore, the school does matter. I've confused myself.
If I remember correctly from when I applied to med schools, one of the NYMC advisors or something was very good at funneling students into the field. I didn't apply there but that's what I heard from others.
 
I don't think the school makes a huge difference on if you get into radiology. NYMC is not a top 40 med school and they place more students into radiology than probably any other med school in the nation........ Or maybe NYMC is very good at placing students into radiology, so therefore, the school does matter. I've confused myself.

NYMC does well in placing for radiology because I heard the chairman of the radiology depart is very active in helping students secure spots. He calls on their behalf, etc.
 
If I remember correctly from when I applied to med schools, one of the NYMC advisors or something was very good at funneling students into the field. I didn't apply there but that's what I heard from others.

30 students from wayne state matched into rads last year... i have heard that a similar number are applying again this year...
 
NYMC does well in placing for radiology because I heard the chairman of the radiology depart is very active in helping students secure spots. He calls on their behalf, etc.

*She
 
30 students from wayne state matched into rads last year... i have heard that a similar number are applying again this year...

I have some friends there. The number is 43 (wow) this year.
 
holy ****. Out of how many? I met a kid from NYU who said that 30 out of his class of 160 was applying.

Insanity.

30/160 is the highest proportion I've ever heard of. Yikes.

At Wayne, it's 43/270ish (I think they're one of the biggest programs in the country), which doesn't sound impressive considering the proportion, however their norm is around 20/year.

My school's numbers are also up - we have 4x the norm applying this year. :scared:

I don't want to raise anyone's BP...I think this is just a local phenomenon in the area. But isn't it kind of weird that numbers are slightly up this year? Shouldn't all of the gold diggers be running elsewhere?
 
It seems primarily an NY phenomenon. Overall I hear that the radiology number are down this year, although we won't know until the official match results are out. But I know for a fact that a LOT of people want to stay around the NY area and are applying around here, so it's definitely very competitive on the east coast, particularly in NY. The programs definitely have their pick this year.
 
Sorry to bump an old thread, but I have this to add on the matter:

Your med school's reputation does NOT matter if your goal is to get into radiology at all. However, if you're aiming for the top of the field programs like MGH and UCSF, it definitely matters significantly (as in, it is likely to close doors). I've known people with 260+/junior AOA/attendings who asked to write their LORs who ended up with a disappointing number of top interviews, and this was anticipated by their program director, who said that by virtue of their med school's mediocre reputation, they wouldn't get top interviews despite being stellar everywhere else in their application.

Certain schools with less-than-stellar reps may match many people into radiology (it is not a difficult field to get into), but you'll find a scarcity of people from those schools who match into top programs in the nation.
 
Sorry to bump an old thread, but I have this to add on the matter:

Your med school's reputation does NOT matter if your goal is to get into radiology at all. However, if you're aiming for the top of the field programs like MGH and UCSF, it definitely matters significantly (as in, it is likely to close doors). I've known people with 260+/junior AOA/attendings who asked to write their LORs who ended up with a disappointing number of top interviews, and this was anticipated by their program director, who said that by virtue of their med school's mediocre reputation, they wouldn't get top interviews despite being stellar everywhere else in their application.

Certain schools with less-than-stellar reps may match many people into radiology (it is not a difficult field to get into), but you'll find a scarcity of people from those schools who match into top programs in the nation.
I disagree. While I do believe it makes it harder and that most everything in your application has to be stellar, it certainly happens. All the time, in fact. I go to a program in a similar tier to MGH/UCSF and we have plenty of residents from schools that aren't on most people's top 50 list.
 
I disagree. While I do believe it makes it harder and that most everything in your application has to be stellar, it certainly happens. All the time, in fact. I go to a program in a similar tier to MGH/UCSF and we have plenty of residents from schools that aren't on most people's top 50 list.

There are exceptions as you mention, but it seems that these are based more on the "who you know" than someone getting on based purely on their own merits. An obscure medical school might have someone known to your program of interest, or perhaps someone connected with the obscure school works at the program you're interested in. Every school has a history with programs and knows if their applicants haven't been getting interviews at a certain program despite having qualified applicants and such.

If a well-known person at your school can vouch for you, then you have an in at great programs. This is where going to a well-connected top school can really help you.
 
There are exceptions as you mention, but it seems that these are based more on the "who you know" than someone getting on based purely on their own merits. An obscure medical school might have someone known to your program of interest, or perhaps someone connected with the obscure school works at the program you're interested in. Every school has a history with programs and knows if their applicants haven't been getting interviews at a certain program despite having qualified applicants and such.

If a well-known person at your school can vouch for you, then you have an in at great programs. This is where going to a well-connected top school can really help you.

I got interviews at all the big places (MGH, UCSF, Penn, Hopkins, etc.) and I'm at a no-name school outside most regions. I didn't have any powerhouse letter writers. I don't know anyone. I worked hard and have a well rounded app.

In my anecdotal experience I agree with MrBurns.
 
I go to a small, relatively new, primary care oriented school and got plenty of good interviews. Maybe not MGH or UCSF level, but not that far off either.
 
I'm an alumnus from Loma Linda University and am now a resident at UCSD, FWIW.
 
In my experience coming from a "no name school" I think that it does matter. Within the region I don't think it matters much but outside of the region you are virtually unknown. It doesn't lock you out of anywhere but it does make it harder.
 
In my experience coming from a "no name school" I think that it does matter. Within the region I don't think it matters much but outside of the region you are virtually unknown. It doesn't lock you out of anywhere but it does make it harder.
Agreed
 
In my experience coming from a "no name school" I think that it does matter. Within the region I don't think it matters much but outside of the region you are virtually unknown. It doesn't lock you out of anywhere but it does make it harder.

I'll update after match day but my no-name school is outside the region of all the big name places and I still got interviews there. Maybe it would have been easier if I went to Harvard though.

I do agree that regional bias is pretty bad for mid-upper tier programs. MGH knows you'll come across the country to be a resident there. Wake forest or UF or Mayo is a tougher sell. I had to ask for a lot of interviews at places like these, but was pretty successful after just showing a little bit of sincere interest.
 
I think the region one's school is in is the more critical factor. If you go to one of the elite places and all, different set of rules applies but most applicants aren't from the elite places.

My biggest question was always, "Why do you want to leave Florida?" as soon as I got to the Midwest and Northeast. Most of the places in the Southeast gave me interviews, with a few exceptions and all in Florida that I applied to.
 
I think the region one's school is in is the more critical factor. If you go to one of the elite places and all, different set of rules applies but most applicants aren't from the elite places.

My biggest question was always, "Why do you want to leave Florida?" as soon as I got to the Midwest and Northeast. Most of the places in the Southeast gave me interviews, with a few exceptions and all in Florida that I applied to.

I never got questions like that interviewing outside of Florida. Just more like "why do you want to come here" and not why leaving FL.

Scratch that, Baylor Houston asked me that. The guy said they rank a lot of people from FL and they never show up come match day and he asked me why. How the heck am I suppose to know why people from prior cycles didn't rank them as high as they wanted???
 
Just had our first ever match day. We got a few people into *very prestigious, academic programs far from our state.

Going in, I was terrified that I'd somehow doomed myself, but it was very uplifting to see that hard work and perseverance paid off for some people - especially on top of nice in-state tuition combined with some hefty scholarship money.

This may be anomalous, but it's certainly a healthy counter-example to those who stand by the "no name, no game" hypothesis for matching well.
 
Just had our first ever match day. We got a few people into *very prestigious, academic programs far from our state.

Going in, I was terrified that I'd somehow doomed myself, but it was very uplifting to see that hard work and perseverance paid off for some people - especially on top of nice in-state tuition combined with some hefty scholarship money.

This may be anomalous, but it's certainly a healthy counter-example to those who stand by the "no name, no game" hypothesis for matching well.

+1. Got my first choice at a program everyone would agree is top 5. No special endorsements, no famous letter writers, just hard work and of course some luck.
 
Just had our first ever match day. We got a few people into *very prestigious, academic programs far from our state.

Going in, I was terrified that I'd somehow doomed myself, but it was very uplifting to see that hard work and perseverance paid off for some people - especially on top of nice in-state tuition combined with some hefty scholarship money.

This may be anomalous, but it's certainly a healthy counter-example to those who stand by the "no name, no game" hypothesis for matching well.

Same here. Brand new school with no reputation to speak of, matched MGH.
 
Same here. Brand new school with no reputation to speak of, matched MGH.

I think it depends on circumstances. I was trying to stay in my city for family reasons. Had 260+/aoa/research but still ended up at a mediocre program which is where the others doing rads in my class ended up. We interviewed at tons of top programs but at the end of the day came up unlucky. I think if I wanted to go anywhere I would have matched well, but I think you never know what specific schools are looking for.
 
... it was very uplifting to see that hard work and perseverance paid off

I can of course only speak for the programs I interviewed at, but the resident rosters at 2 of the top 5 programs reflected many "no name" schools and a minority of top med schools.
I felt these programs sought top applicants from wherever, rather than being exclusive about pedigree. Even students from big name schools who matched at these places were near the top of their classes.

Just because we all know people with step 1 > 260 who didn't match to top tier doesn't mean hard work doesn't trump pedigree. The top tier schools have the luxury of taking residents who have high scores and equally conspicuous extracurricular achievement. I was probably the black sheep in my entering class of people who had multiple first author publications in strong journals, people who held patents on radiology related technology or programming, people who had done significant international aid (ie, beyond just a few weeks abroad), and who all had great scores to boot.
 
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