Ejected from Undergrad Research Position w/ Distinguished Chem Professor

[Sarovson98]

So today I get the email that my position is being given to another undergrad due to my complete lack of effort towards my project I was assigned. I've been apart of the group since spring 2013 and have really put in a minimal amount of effort this summer and the spring semester, so I both completely deserved what I got and am not confused in the least as to the position I am in. My question at this point is will this be detrimental to me getting into medical school, like will they know I was specifically ejected from an undergrad research position or will they not know either way?

I'm basically trying to gauge where I'm at with all this. The main thing I need to figure out is why this happened and how to prevent it as well as how hard I'm still willing to even work to get into medical school. Well I know why it happened, laziness fueled by a preoccupation with drugs, I'll be honest about my demons, I'm sure I'm not the first in such a position, and I'm just glad I'm not currently concerned about charges on my record or anything like that, more of just a seriously amazing opportunity that was dashed to the rocks due to my own continued choices to be lazy every single day this summer. I'd like some advice on where to go from here. Could I try to get another research position? This almost seems foolhardy because I wouldn't be surprised if the professor has spoken to his colleagues about my case. I do know one amazing professor who would be genuine and candid with me in her reasoning as to why she wouldn't allow me if I inquired about such a position. I'm just kind of scared, embarrassed, and ****ty feeling as I should. Any words of advice or wisdom would be GREATLY appreciated at this point because I'm not doing well mentally. Thank you anyone for help with this

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[type12]

No, unless it was with credit or a class. Leave it out, and move on.

 

[Sarovson98]

At this point, yes, moving on is key. I can't let it drag me down, which is how I feel currently, as I guess I should or I'm not going to learn anything from it. I just need to learn from it and move on without dwelling and ruminating on it

 

[cidem2065]

No more drugs would be a start.

 

[Sarovson98]

No more drugs would be a start.

Yes, absolutely. Be it alcohol or otherwise a preoccupation with them is not healthy and is not conducive at all to a pre-med lifestyle. Too incompatible

 

[type12]

No more drugs would be a start.

Or more drugs... think about it.

 

[Serous Demilune]

Ha the same thing happened to me in undergrad, minus the drugs. The only difference is I got a letter of rec from the guy before he kicked me out. If you can't get another position before applying, putting this on your AMCAS might make schools suspicious if you don't have a letter from the PI. However, if you got another research position, worked hard, and got a letter from it, you could probably put both experiences on your application without being worried about what med schools think.

 

[Planes2Doc]

So today I get the email that my position is being given to another undergrad due to my complete lack of effort towards my project I was assigned. I've been apart of the group since spring 2013 and have really put in a minimal amount of effort this summer and the spring semester, so I both completely deserved what I got and am not confused in the least as to the position I am in. My question at this point is will this be detrimental to me getting into medical school, like will they know I was specifically ejected from an undergrad research position or will they not know either way?

If it's not on your application (or mentioned on your transcript), then it doesn't exist. Leave it off! You're only supposed to put things on your medical school application that will help you look better. Not ones that will make you look worse. AMCAS doesn't ask you to list your full employment history, so don't do this.

I'm basically trying to gauge where I'm at with all this. The main thing I need to figure out is why this happened and how to prevent it as well as how hard I'm still willing to even work to get into medical school. Well I know why it happened, laziness fueled by a preoccupation with drugs, I'll be honest about my demons, I'm sure I'm not the first in such a position, and I'm just glad I'm not currently concerned about charges on my record or anything like that, more of just a seriously amazing opportunity that was dashed to the rocks due to my own continued choices to be lazy every single day this summer. I'd like some advice on where to go from here.

Chances are that mentioning this will hurt your application. While some people might be sympathetic to those with addiction, many more won't be and will blame you for getting yourself into this mess. It's doable, but considering you have a clean record, you might want to leave it out. Here's an example of someone who was open about addiction and made it: http://www.oregonlive.com/health/index.ssf/2011/06/among_oregon_health_science_un.html

Could I try to get another research position? This almost seems foolhardy because I wouldn't be surprised if the professor has spoken to his colleagues about my case. I do know one amazing professor who would be genuine and candid with me in her reasoning as to why she wouldn't allow me if I inquired about such a position. I'm just kind of scared, embarrassed, and ****ty feeling as I should. Any words of advice or wisdom would be GREATLY appreciated at this point because I'm not doing well mentally. Thank you anyone for help with this

If you want to try research again, then do it elsewhere where no one knows this professor. Also, don't ever mention this again. Just learn from your mistakes, and don't make them again in the future.

 

[Goro]

If any of this ends up on a LOR, then your medical career is over.

If you haven't fixed your drug problems, then you're in for a lot more trouble than just not being a doctor.

If you're sober, then go chat with the new PI and tell him/her right up front that you had issues, but they're in the past and you're like a fresh start.

So today I get the email that my position is being given to another undergrad due to my complete lack of effort towards my project I was assigned. I've been apart of the group since spring 2013 and have really put in a minimal amount of effort this summer and the spring semester, so I both completely deserved what I got and am not confused in the least as to the position I am in. My question at this point is will this be detrimental to me getting into medical school, like will they know I was specifically ejected from an undergrad research position or will they not know either way?

I'm basically trying to gauge where I'm at with all this. The main thing I need to figure out is why this happened and how to prevent it as well as how hard I'm still willing to even work to get into medical school. Well I know why it happened, laziness fueled by a preoccupation with drugs, I'll be honest about my demons, I'm sure I'm not the first in such a position, and I'm just glad I'm not currently concerned about charges on my record or anything like that, more of just a seriously amazing opportunity that was dashed to the rocks due to my own continued choices to be lazy every single day this summer. I'd like some advice on where to go from here. Could I try to get another research position? This almost seems foolhardy because I wouldn't be surprised if the professor has spoken to his colleagues about my case. I do know one amazing professor who would be genuine and candid with me in her reasoning as to why she wouldn't allow me if I inquired about such a position. I'm just kind of scared, embarrassed, and ****ty feeling as I should. Any words of advice or wisdom would be GREATLY appreciated at this point because I'm not doing well mentally. Thank you anyone for help with this

 

[type12]

If any of this ends up on a LOR, then your medical career is over.

Is this true? Or you just mean admission to med school? Because I hear, like every other day, about doctors talking about taking drugs recreationally. Maybe just an east coast thing?

 

[Sarovson98]

If any of this ends up on a LOR, then your medical career is over.

If you haven't fixed your drug problems, then you're in for a lot more trouble than just not being a doctor.

If you're sober, then go chat with the new PI and tell him/her right up front that you had issues, but they're in the past and you're like a fresh start.

Yeah, there's no way I'd ask this professor to write a LoR at this point.

I definitely will have to cut back on use probably entirely by the time I enter med school, and should probably just do it now since MCAT will be coming up in the summer. What is a PI?

 

[deleted480308]

Is this true? Or you just mean admission to med school? Because I hear, like every other day, about doctors talking about taking drugs recreationally. Maybe just an east coast thing?

your medical career is over if you can't get in to medical school

 

[Sarovson98]

Is this true? Or you just mean admission to med school? Because I hear, like every other day, about doctors talking about taking drugs recreationally. Maybe just an east coast thing?

I'm sure they definitely do. They're just more in the proper position to do so since they've already made it through the ringer and are established. Not that I'm sure it's smart to be freely discussing such things unless it's with your most trusted of colleagues. I'm sure the hospital administrator would be rather displeased if they learned of all the drug use amongst the doctors that do choose to use drugs recreationally.

 

[ridethecliche]

Depends on how well you know the PI. If he/she is willing to get you another shot then I'd try not to blow it.

If you have resources on/off campus, I would seek them out now too before this starts to affect both your personal and academic life.

 

[Sarovson98]

Depends on how well you know the PI. If he/she is willing to get you another shot then I'd try not to blow it.

If you have resources on/off campus, I would seek them out now too before this starts to affect both your personal and academic life.

I'm not sure what a PI is, but if it's someone who coordinates and finds research work for undergrads then I don't know anything about one on campus, although ours is certainly large enough to warrant one (IU). I went and asked the professor myself spring 2013 if he had any positions he would like to fill and that I would love to do it. He just let me in based on grades and an assessment of my personality at the time.

 

[hoihaie]

I'm not sure what a PI is, but if it's someone who coordinates and finds research work for undergrads then I don't know anything about one on campus, although ours is certainly large enough to warrant one (IU). I went and asked the professor myself spring 2013 if he had any positions he would like to fill and that I would love to do it. He just let me in based on grades and an assessment of my personality at the time.

PI = principle investigator = the professor

 

[type12]

PI = principle investigator = the professor

Oh boy, and I've been disrespecting him as the partially inebriated lab member... This explains a lot.

 

[Sarovson98]

PI = principle investigator = the professor

Ah, that makes sense, thanks! It definitely seems a bit iffy to me to ask him if he can help me get other work at this point. I'd probably tell me to go eff myself if I were him in a much kinder way, lol.

 

[idm6]

Is this true? Or you just mean admission to med school? Because I hear, like every other day, about doctors talking about taking drugs recreationally. Maybe just an east coast thing?

Allowing drugs to interfere with your work is far different from simply taking drugs recreationally. The OP isn't a guy who got high on Friday evenings, but was back on top of his game and ready to go for work on Monday. He's a guy who became useless at his job because of drug use.

If the doctors you refer to began performing badly because of their drug use, they would certainly face consequences.

 

[Sarovson98]

Allowing drugs to interfere with your work is far different from simply taking drugs recreationally. The OP isn't a guy who got high on Friday evenings, but was back on top of his game and ready to go for work on Monday. He's a guy who became useless at his job because of drug use.

If the doctors you refer to began performing badly because of their drug use, they would certainly face consequences.

I was never that into the research to begin with (computational chemistry, use of Linux programming, Gaussian, almost felt like something completely unrelated to anything I'd be interested in chemistry/science-wise) so a combination of a lack of interest and drive to do the assigned work along with drugs being present allowed me to slack off for the summer with no care. I was never "useful" at my job to begin with because I never really tried all that hard at it even when I would actually attend the research office. I was already useless at the job.

 

[Sarovson98]

I guess my next question is is it unethical to take drugs recreationally if it does not interfere with your job, be it doctor or anything of a similarly professional level. I suppose the answer is something that is highly individual and will vary depending on what your personal beliefs are. I'd certainly like to hear some perspectives on it.

 

[Serous Demilune]

I guess my next question is is it unethical to take drugs recreationally if it does not interfere with your job, be it doctor or anything of a similarly professional level. I suppose the answer is something that is highly individual and will vary depending on what your personal beliefs are. I'd certainly like to hear some perspectives on it.

The ethics don't really matter. Hospitals will drug test doctors the second they even suspect something is going on, if not completely randomly. The risk is just not worth the incredible damage it could do to your career.

 

[Planes2Doc]

The ethics don't really matter. Hospitals will drug test doctors the second they even suspect something is going on, if not completely randomly. The risk is just not worth the incredible damage it could do to your career.

This is very true. But from my personal standpoint, what you do in your free time is entirely up to you, and none of anyone's business, as long as it doesn't interfere with what you do at work! Do I know what my favorite PCP is doing right now? Is he enjoying the beautiful weather with his wife and kids? I don't know. Is he smoking weed right now? I don't know. Is he screwing a hooker? I don't know. And frankly, none of this matters as long as he's sober tober when he's at work and nothing conflicts with it. But physicians, just like many other employees in other healthcare and non-healthcare related fields will of course be drug tested.

 

[Mr.Zero]

I guess my next question is is it unethical to take drugs recreationally if it does not interfere with your job, be it doctor or anything of a similarly professional level. I suppose the answer is something that is highly individual and will vary depending on what your personal beliefs are. I'd certainly like to hear some perspectives on it.

If you can truly keep it from affecting your professional life, it's still questionable at best. However, alcohol can be considered a "drug" and I'm sure many professionals drink on their own time without it harming their careers. There are also those individual who have alcohol destroy their careers though.

 

[PakiMDDreamer]

physicians get drug tested??? doubtful...never heard of that

 

[xffan624]

physicians get drug tested??? doubtful...never heard of that

Have you ever actually had a real job? It's standard practice with many employers. This also includes some medical schools and hospitals in which medical students rotate.

 

[ciestar]

Have you ever actually had a real job? It's standard practice with many employers. This also includes some medical schools and hospitals in which medical students rotate.

Sooo many actually test you for nicotine now! Why would they leave out illegal drugs?

 

[ruedjgtc]

physicians get drug tested??? doubtful...never heard of that

I say you run with this theory.

And to be productive to this thread, for the OP anything is a problem if it interferes with your life/goals; whether that be legal or illegal drugs, video games, chocolate, masturbation, or scantily clad women. It doesn't matter what it is, if it's interfering with your life then it's a problem.

Don't get a LOR from them, you'd be pretty silly to ask for one, what would they recommend? If you feel you have an issue that you can't handle by yourself then go to your school and get counseling and talk to your professor, after all of that you may get a reprieve to return to lab. If you're school is large enough, then consider the counseling and find another lab.

Good luck with that!

 

[AspiringERMD]

A few posts up mentioned their PCP, and I thought of the drug before the type of doctor, given the OP...

 

[HinduHammer]

I think you should list the activity on AMCAS because it sounds like it was a good activity, just emphasize whatever contributions you did make. As has been mentioned many times on this thread, the #1 thing you can do for yourself -- your medical aspirations, your physical/mental/spiritual health, is to get off drugs and alcohol. As another poster said its one thing if you did it on Friday evenings and thats it but when it starts interfering with your daily life, and in this case it seriously affected what it sounds like was your only pre-med activity, and thus your dreams, it is no longer recreational drug use, it is an ADDICTION. Addiction will ruin your life. You should stop drug use now, and seek help to ensure that you remain sober for yourself first, your contribution to society second, and any chance of a medical career third.

 

[IslandStyle808]

If any of this ends up on a LOR, then your medical career is over.

If you haven't fixed your drug problems, then you're in for a lot more trouble than just not being a doctor.

If you're sober, then go chat with the new PI and tell him/her right up front that you had issues, but they're in the past and you're like a fresh start.

Hey Goro,

I would like to ask your opinion about my situation. About 2 years ago, I was doing a research rotation with my PI. However, a month later he says I could not work with him, since his supervisor said he had too many students as it is. Thus was not allowed back into the lab (mainly because you need card access, due to the research labs being in the same building as the cadavers). I was working on a review article at the time and my PI decided to make this my project. I then worked work with him on that paper for more than a year and was published just a few months ago.

I don't want to get an LOR from him, because I feel it would be luke warm at best, due to the situation (he said he would be happy to write one anyway during the time). I was wondering as an ADCOM do you think this would raise red flags or suspicion? I am more than happy to be honest about it during my interviews, but I don't know how the interviewers will take it also.

 

[Goro]

I don't think this would be an issue; the simply had too many bodies and not enough space. This happens at my school a lot. I agree with not picking this PI as an LOR writer. The publication speaks much louder, and in a positive way.

 

[IslandStyle808]

I don't think this would be an issue; the simply had too many bodies and not enough space. This happens at my school a lot. I agree with not picking this PI as an LOR writer. The publication speaks much louder, and in a positive way.

Excellent, Thank you Goro.