Elite School (150k Debt) vs. State School (no debt)

[Cyberdyne 101]

The following state schools do not apply: UCSF, UCLA, UCSD, Michigan, UTSW, UVA (or any others that are considered elite).

Visualize an acceptance to your dream elite school when thinking about your answer.

(I used state schools rather than "non-elite" private schools in the poll question because I assumed that they are cheaper).

Edit: if you're not satisfied with the dream school scenario pick a desirable school from the US News top 15 (or 20) research rankings. And yes, this poll is about medical schools!
Also, if you don't believe in Geffen scholarships use a difference of ~150k in debt between the 2 schools.

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[The Buff OP]

Saying "I go to Harvard medical school" sounds a lot cooler.

 

[NoDakDok]

"Dream school" indicates it's everything you want and more. By that I mean it's more than just a "top" school, it's a place you have absolutely fallen in love with. If it is truly your "dream school," certainly it is worth $150k ($300k est total with interest on loans) to you in happiness alone. However, if it's not truly your "dream school" then you have to consider its objective benefit to you. If it's not your "dream school," $150k in high interest unsubsidized loans is generally not worth it, comparing MD to MD. The extremely high standards of the LCME mean any MD program will get you anywhere you want to go as a clinician, given the individual effort and capability. Graduating without any debt is extremely rare, and probably worth it outside of the "dream school" category.

 

[Lamel]

Isn't 150k close to the average indebtedness anyway?

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Isn't 150k close to the average indebtedness anyway?

I believe the average debt is ~170k. I just rounded it down to 150k.

 

[Detective John McClane]

I believe the average debt is ~170k. I just rounded it down to 150k.

I wish the bank did that for me

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

"Dream school" indicates it's everything you want and more. By that I mean it's more than just a "top" school, it's a place you have absolutely fallen in love with. If it is truly your "dream school," certainly it is worth $150k ($300k est total with interest on loans) to you in happiness alone. However, if it's not truly your "dream school" then you have to consider its objective benefit to you. If it's not your "dream school," $150k in high interest unsubsidized loans is generally not worth it, comparing MD to MD. The extremely high standards of the LCME mean any MD program will get you anywhere you want to go as a clinician, given the individual effort and capability. Graduating without any debt is extremely rare, and probably worth it outside of the "dream school" category.

But it's still med school i.e. classes, exams, boards, rotations. Also, I'm assuming that ppl only apply to elite schools that are desirable to them. Why would someone apply to Columbia if they'd be unhappy in an urban environment?

 

[Lamel]

I'd definitely do it for an elite school; coming from Harvard/Hopkins undoubtedly impresses later down the line.

Edit: But it does depend on what the school can offer me that the state school can't.

 

[Pisiform]

It's just a bachelors degree. Average school would do just fine

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

It's just a bachelors degree. Average school would do just fine

Sigh... Should I really edit the thread title/poll question?!
(Didn't know UCSF had an undergrad program anyway).

 

[NoDakDok]

But it's still med school i.e. classes, exams, boards, rotations. Also, I'm assuming that ppl only apply to elite schools that are desirable to them. Why would someone apply to Columbia if they'd be unhappy in an urban environment?

Not trying to be condescending here, but what's your point? No one [should] apply to a school they have no interest in attending, but that's irrelevant to this thread. The comparison you're explicitly asking for is "Elite, Dream School" versus "State School with full cost of attendance scholarship." In the truest essence of "Dream School" you should absolutely attend it, as that definition has an intrinsic value well worth $300k of eventual debt you can certainly pay off. In a non-true sense of "Dream School" (e.g. going for the 'name'), it would be wise to consider the extreme rarity of a full cost of attendance scholarship to your state school. Financially it would be a huge relief and give you a lot of freedom in your future, and the education you receive will not be a hindrance to you unless you are set on becoming an academician, in which case this wouldn't be a question.

Either way, this is an extremely rare, if not unheard of circumstance. I'm not even aware of schools that give full cost of attendance scholarships. I've never heard of anything outside of MD/PhD or Veteran programs offering full cost of attendance.

A more likely, and much less black-and-white question would be "Elite School" versus "State School" with $100k indebtedness difference (e.g. $100k vs $200k indebtedness), which isn't all that uncommon. In that case, it's up to personal preference.

 

[maxilofacial]

State, having no worries about paying an stupid amount of debt will make me a lot happier.

 

[DarknightX]

State school.

Besides feeding your ego, it makes little difference where you go to med school (as long as it's a US MD school).

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Not trying to be condescending here, but what's your point? No one [should] apply to a school they have no interest in attending, but that's irrelevant to this thread. The comparison you're explicitly asking for is "Elite, Dream School" versus "State School with full cost of attendance scholarship." In the truest essence of "Dream School" you should absolutely attend it, as that definition has an intrinsic value well worth $300k of eventual debt you can certainly pay off. In a non-true sense of "Dream School" (e.g. going for the 'name'), it would be wise to consider the extreme rarity of a full cost of attendance scholarship to your state school. Financially it would be a huge relief and give you a lot of freedom in your future, and the education you receive will not be a hindrance to you unless you are set on becoming an academician, in which case this wouldn't be a question.

Either way, this is an extremely rare, if not unheard of circumstance. I'm not even aware of schools that give full cost of attendance scholarships. I've never heard of anything outside of MD/PhD or Veteran programs offering full cost of attendance.

A more likely, and much less black-and-white question would be "Elite School" versus "State School" with $100k indebtedness difference (e.g. $100k vs $200k indebtedness), which isn't all that uncommon. In that case, it's up to personal preference.

The 150k was arbitrary. I felt it was easier to say elite school 150k debt vs state school no debt rather than elite school 210k debt vs state school 60k debt. Sorry if the "dream scenario" throws you off. I can think of more than 10 (possibly 15) schools that would be very desirable for me. I'm sure the same applies to others as well.

 

[NoDakDok]

The 150k was arbitrary. I felt it was easier to say elite school 150k debt vs state school no debt rather than elite school 210k debt vs state school 60k debt. Sorry if the "dream scenario" throws you off. I can think of more than 10 (possibly 15) schools that would be very desirable for me. I'm sure the same applies to others as well.

"Dream school" has a very specific connotation to some people. I didn't have a "dream school" when I applied, but many people do. That's very different than "very desirable." It didn't throw me off, rather you just asked a very specific question, which tends to receive a very specific answer.

In the more realistic scenario, which is ~100k indebtedness at a state school versus ~200k indebtedness at an elite, private school, most physicians will urge you to attend the one that will result in the least debt because the reality is that your medical school does not matter as long as it's MD. On the other hand, most premeds (e.g. Pre-Allo) will urge you to attend the "elite" school to feed your ego. In the end, that decision comes down to what makes you happier. I, and many others, faced similar situations to this. It's a tough decision, but if you're fine with forgoing the ego massage, the state school is a very alluring option.

 

[QofQuimica]

Not trying to be condescending here, but what's your point? No one [should] apply to a school they have no interest in attending, but that's irrelevant to this thread. The comparison you're explicitly asking for is "Elite, Dream School" versus "State School with full cost of attendance scholarship." In the truest essence of "Dream School" you should absolutely attend it, as that definition has an intrinsic value well worth $300k of eventual debt you can certainly pay off. In a non-true sense of "Dream School" (e.g. going for the 'name'), it would be wise to consider the extreme rarity of a full cost of attendance scholarship to your state school. Financially it would be a huge relief and give you a lot of freedom in your future, and the education you receive will not be a hindrance to you unless you are set on becoming an academician, in which case this wouldn't be a question.

Either way, this is an extremely rare, if not unheard of circumstance. I'm not even aware of schools that give full cost of attendance scholarships. I've never heard of anything outside of MD/PhD or Veteran programs offering full cost of attendance.

A more likely, and much less black-and-white question would be "Elite School" versus "State School" with $100k indebtedness difference (e.g. $100k vs $200k indebtedness), which isn't all that uncommon. In that case, it's up to personal preference.

Just because you are unaware of something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I went to med school on a full COA scholarship (both tuition + living expenses). At my med school, these full rides are given at the discretion of the adcom as a recruitment incentive. However, you are correct that such scholarships are few and far between. You are not correct that one cannot become an academician if one attends a state med school. Where you do residency and fellowship is much more important for a future academician than where you go to medical school is.

OP, should you ever be fortunate enough to be in this situation, take the scholarship and attend the state school. Five years from now when the loans come due, you will be glad you made that decision, especially when you see how debt is negatively affecting the lives of many of your peers.

 

[DoctorLacrosse]

ill never have the luxury of being in this position, but I know personally I'd have a tough time making this decision.

could you imagine graduating medical school with no debt though? that would be the most incredible feeling. just straight profit from here on out. unreal

 

[NoDakDok]

Just because you are unaware of something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I went to med school on a full COA scholarship (both tuition + living expenses). At my med school, these full rides are given at the discretion of the adcom as a recruitment incentive. However, you are correct that such scholarships are few and far between.

I fully alluded to the potentiality of a full cost of attendance scholarship and expressed its extreme rarity. Thanks for the anecdote as it is good to know that they do, in fact, exist. However, you didn't really need to be condescending about it when I said nothing incorrect; I acknowledged the possibility and in no way insinuated that just because I was unaware of it, it didn't exist.

You are not correct that one cannot become an academician if one attends a state med school.

At no point did I state it is not possible to become an academician at a state medical school. With all due respect, please do not misquote me.

Where you do residency and fellowship is much more important for a future academician than where you go to medical school is.

Certainly, but you can't deny that the connections made and the prestige associated with an elite medical school will add significant weight to an academician's resume. In that case, I think it's hard to argue against going to an "elite, dream school" (indicating either prestige or a characteristic of that school is extensively intrinsically important), especially if your interest is academia. Debt is something you can pay off, but once-in-a-lifetime experiences are certainly not.

OP, should you ever be fortunate enough to be in this situation, take the scholarship and attend the state school. Five years from now when the loans come due, you will be glad you made that decision, especially when you see how debt is negatively affecting the lives of many of your peers.

I agree if it's simply an "elite school," but disagree if it is an "elite, dream school." I do think that is significantly different, and I believe the distinction makes for very polar scenarios.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Just because you are unaware of something doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. I went to med school on a full COA scholarship (both tuition + living expenses). At my med school, these full rides are given at the discretion of the adcom as a recruitment incentive. However, you are correct that such scholarships are few and far between. You are not correct that one cannot become an academician if one attends a state med school. Where you do residency and fellowship is much more important for a future academician than where you go to medical school is.

OP, should you ever be fortunate enough to be in this situation, take the scholarship and attend the state school. Five years from now when the loans come due, you will be glad you made that decision, especially when you see how debt is negatively affecting the lives of many of your peers.

Wow, this thread just jumped up like 12 notches with your contribution.
I would take on debt to get out of NY. It may not make sense to most ppl, but unless Cornell (or one of the other schools in my borough really hooked me up) I would leave this state without thinking twice.
Although, if I lived in Texas (or somewhere similar) the choice would be more difficult.

 

[claduva94]

I picked elite just because the prospective of going to a place like Mayo seems worth the money. But I would almost always go the path with the least amount of debt.

 

[Holmwood]

I genuinely don't know what to choose based on these parameters. Honestly.

Some prestigious schools actually let you do part-time research for a nice bit of cash, so the debt wouldn't be as bad (still hefty sum though).

 

[dbeast]

If you're leaning toward an academic career, it might be worth it to attend the elite school.

But then again, once you get a job in academia, you'll get paid waaaaay less. I think there's a book title from the 60's that sums up this principle...

 

[sobored]

Med school will suck the life out of you wherever you go, so the idea of "dream" school seems dumb. But if you want to put yourself in the best position to: match a competitive specialty, match in a different region, match in top residency program, pursue an academic career, mitigate a less than stellar med school performance (and probably a few other advantages), then go to the better school. Now if you always knew you wanted to do family or something not competitive, then sure, chase the money.

 

[DarknightX]

If you're leaning toward an academic career, it might be worth it to attend the elite school.

But then again, once you get a job in academia, you'll get paid waaaaay less. I think there's a book title from the 60's that sums up this principle...

Still won't matter where you went to medical school for a career in academics.

It all depends on where you do residency and your ability to do research. If you do your training at an academic residency program, and actually learn how to do research, then you can have an academic medical career.

In terms of matching to an elite residency:

Step 1 > clinical grades and evals > letters of rec > research >.................prestige of medical school

So I know this is hard for pre meds to grasp, but the only person who will end up caring where you went to medical school is your mom. Where you do residency (and fellowship) is how people will judge you. I've been in rank meetings. Unless it's an absolutely no name school that we've never heard of, the school doesn't make a difference at all.

 

[pgg]

State school, unless the debt load from the elite place is trivial (nice car level or below IMO).

Residency matters, medical school really doesn't ... provided it's an allopathic school. (Being a DO grad can make it hard to get into some residencies.)

State school, every time. Good grades, good board scores, you can go anywhere for residency. Residency is where you learn to be a doctor, not medical school.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

In terms of matching to an elite residency:

Step 1 > clinical grades and evals > letters of rec > research >.................prestige of medical school

So I know this is hard for pre meds to grasp, but the only person who will end up caring where you went to medical school is your mom.

 

[dbeast]

Still won't matter where you went to medical school for a career in academics.

It all depends on where you do residency and your ability to do research. If you do your training at an academic residency program, and actually learn how to do research, then you can have an academic medical career.

In terms of matching to an elite residency:

Step 1 > clinical grades and evals > letters of rec > research >.................prestige of medical school

So I know this is hard for pre meds to grasp, but the only person who will end up caring where you went to medical school is your mom. Where you do residency (and fellowship) is how people will judge you. I've been in rank meetings. Unless it's an absolutely no name school that we've never heard of, the school doesn't make a difference at all.

I'm not too sure about that... Maybe things have changed since you applied to residency, but I keep hearing from PD's that coming from a top school is a somewhat big bonus on your ERAS. This isn't to say coming from a... hmmm... "less top" school will hurt either I suppose.

 

[QofQuimica]

I fully alluded to the potentiality of a full cost of attendance scholarship and expressed its extreme rarity. Thanks for the anecdote as it is good to know that they do, in fact, exist. However, you didn't really need to be condescending about it when I said nothing incorrect; I acknowledged the possibility and in no way insinuated that just because I was unaware of it, it didn't exist.

No condescension intended.

Certainly, but you can't deny that the connections made and the prestige associated with an elite medical school will add significant weight to an academician's resume.

I can and do deny it....or at least, I'd like to add a hefty dose of perspective to this, considering that I am the one participant in this thread who is actually an academic physician. Again, where one goes to med school is not nearly as important as where one does residency and fellowship. Where one does residency and fellowship is much more predicated upon med school performance (especially Step 1 scores and third year clerkship grades) than it is upon where one attends med school. Wherever you go, you will need to work very hard to do well and prove yourself.

In that case, I think it's hard to argue against going to an "elite, dream school" (indicating either prestige or a characteristic of that school is extensively intrinsically important), especially if your interest is academia. Debt is something you can pay off, but once-in-a-lifetime experiences are certainly not.

I agree if it's simply an "elite school," but disagree if it is an "elite, dream school." I do think that is significantly different, and I believe the distinction makes for very polar scenarios.

Maybe I just don't understand your distinction. What exactly is the difference between an "elite school" and an "elite dream school?"

Med school is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself. Premeds tend to conflate "dream" with "fantasy" when it comes to idealizing a medical school. The things people obsess about when choosing a med school (ex. PBL vs. lecture, school location, etc.) are almost all irrelevant in the long term *except* debt. When I say "long term," I'm only talking about less than a five year time period here. Approximately 4.5 years from the day you start med school, in January of your intern year, your loans will come due. How much debt you take on during med school can affect your life for years, even decades, after you leave med school. Whereas, never mind at my stage as an attending; how many residents do you think really care any more about things like whether their med school used PBL or had required attendance?

With limited exceptions, most people should choose the cheaper school if given that option. And the kinds of exceptions I'm thinking about are things like splitting a family apart (wife in one state, husband in another, especially if kids are involved), not whether one school has "dreamier" program features than another.

 

[NoDakDok]

No condescension intended.

Fair enough, text has very little context. I just don't like being misquoted.

I can and do deny it....or at least, I'd like to add a hefty dose of perspective to this, considering that I am the one participant in this thread who is actually an academic physician. Again, where one goes to med school is not nearly as important as where one does residency and fellowship. Where one does residency and fellowship is much more predicated upon med school performance (especially Step 1 scores and third year clerkship grades) than it is upon where one attends med school. Wherever you go, you will need to work very hard to do well and prove yourself.

Absolutely. The concern arises more from a sense of insecurity than rationality, but it's still a concern. Academicians, especially renowned ones, tend to have an extensive history of elite programs. Is it the programs making that happen or the self selection making that happen? I'd say self selection, but most people (particularly premeds) feel much more comfortable erring on the side of caution when it comes to their goals. Saying school reputation is irrelevant would be too far, so people don't like any potential 'risk.' Like insurance, it's up to the individual to be educated about their decision and set their own price point.

Maybe I just don't understand your distinction. What exactly is the difference between an "elite school" and an "elite dream school?"

The difference is between a person who would state, "I just want my medical degree and to practice medicine" and a person who would state, "My goal in life is to be a Harvard-educated physician and nothing in life would provide me more gratification than to attend Harvard Medical School." I think that's a pretty apparent distinction. You may not care, and it may not be relevant to their future as a physician from your perspective, but that's not necessarily important to an individual with that mindset. Same way a Lamborghini ownership may be a waste of money to you but the life goal of another.

Med school is a means to an end, not an end in and of itself. Premeds tend to conflate "dream" with "fantasy" when it comes to idealizing a medical school. The things people obsess about when choosing a med school (ex. PBL vs. lecture, school location, etc.) are almost all irrelevant in the long term *except* debt. When I say "long term," I'm only talking about less than a five year time period here. Approximately 4.5 years from the day you start med school, in January of your intern year, your loans will come due. How much debt you take on during med school can affect your life for years, even decades, after you leave med school. Whereas, never mind at my stage as an attending; how many residents do you think really care any more about things like whether their med school used PBL or had required attendance?

I'm entirely aware of this, and completely agree that premeds extremely overemphasize 'elite' schools. But I'm not talking about PBL vs Lecture, School Location, etc. I'm saying I don't think that's relevant if the person's "dream" is specific to attending a certain medical school. Everyone finds happiness in different things, and "dreams" are aspirations that ought not be ignored. When old, if her/his dream was to attend Harvard Medical School, I feel as though s/he will be far more content with themselves having accomplished it, and I believe there is value in that. But maybe I'm too optimistic and life is always simply Point A to Point B.

With limited exceptions, most people should choose the cheaper school if given that option. And the kinds of exceptions I'm thinking about are things like splitting a family apart (wife in one state, husband in another, especially if kids are involved), not whether one school has "dreamier" program features than another.

I'm in complete agreement, I made a similar decision in my own process. But to say a "dream" is irrelevant is completely subjective.

Honestly, excluding the word "dream" puts me 100% in line with you. But OP brought it up, so I addressed it as asked.

 

[Flashfan]

There is only one school where I would pay full price, and they give most people scholarships. Still, I can't imagine paying full-price with a credible option.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

I would pick my state school every time. Of course, UNC is a great school overall, but it's where I want to go most. I would also have no debt because IS COA would be completely manageable for me. My goal is to become a happy, satisfied physician. I have no interest in academia. And screw everyone who says you can't match into competitive specialties if you don't go to an "elite" medical school. IMO, it doesn't matter where you attend medical school as long as you match into the specialty you want, do residency at the place with the best personal fit for you, and then work your hardest as a physician while maintaining the best balance of salary, lifestyle, family time, patient relationships, whatever else you consider important.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I would pick my state school every time. Of course, UNC is a great school overall, but it's where I want to go most. I would also have no debt because IS COA would be completely manageable for me. My goal is to become a happy, satisfied physician. I have no interest in academia. And screw everyone who says you can't match into competitive specialties if you don't go to an "elite" medical school. IMO, it doesn't matter where you attend medical school as long as you match into the specialty you want, do residency at the place with the best personal fit for you, and then work your hardest as a physician while maintaining the best balance of salary, lifestyle, family time, patient relationships, whatever else you consider important.

I knew I was missing at least one other school in my "elite state schools" list.
Either way, it's great that UNC can give you several advantages.

 

[NoDakDok]

I would pick my state school every time. Of course, UNC is a great school overall, but it's where I want to go most. I would also have no debt because IS COA would be completely manageable for me. My goal is to become a happy, satisfied physician. I have no interest in academia. And screw everyone who says you can't match into competitive specialties if you don't go to an "elite" medical school. IMO, it doesn't matter where you attend medical school as long as you match into the specialty you want, do residency at the place with the best personal fit for you, and then work your hardest as a physician while maintaining the best balance of salary, lifestyle, family time, patient relationships, whatever else you consider important.

Anyone who says that is extremely misguided and you can point them to any state school MD match list in the country to prove them otherwise.

I knew I was missing at least one other school in my "elite state schools" list.
Either way, it's great that UNC can give you several advantages.

You're missing far more than just UNC, haha. Many of the top schools in the country are state schools.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Anyone who says that is extremely misguided and you can point them to any state school MD match list in the country to prove them otherwise.



You're missing far more than just UNC, haha. Many of the top schools in the country are state schools.

"The following state schools do not apply: UCSF, UCLA, UCSD, Michigan, UTSW, UVA (or any others that are considered elite)."
I didn't claim to make a comprehensive list of elite state schools.

 

[QofQuimica]

The difference is between a person who would state, "I just want my medical degree and to practice medicine" and a person who would state, "My goal in life is to be a Harvard-educated physician and nothing in life would provide me more gratification than to attend Harvard Medical School." I think that's a pretty apparent distinction. You may not care, and it may not be relevant to their future as a physician from your perspective, but that's not necessarily important to an individual with that mindset. Same way a Lamborghini ownership may be a waste of money to you but the life goal of another.

You're right; if someone's life dream was to be a grad of Harvard Medical School, then money would not be a major consideration. But in that case, the "right" strategy would be to apply only to the dream school (maybe even applying there ED if they offer it) and not apply anywhere else. Because applying to multiple schools implies that one is willing to attend other schools besides the "dream" school, does it not? And if one is willing to attend another school besides the "dream" school, then attending that particular school must not be the person's true dream after all. I suspect that attending a specific school is not truly the dream for the vast majority of premeds, who really do dream of being physicians, not specifically grads of X or Y Medical School.

 

[Zelda840]

State school, hands down.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

This is already an active thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/index.php?threads/1093941/


Go to the cheapest US school that will take you, unless you think you're one of rare cases in which the expensive, big name will make a difference (hint: is a $100-200k lottery ticket a good financial decision? It isn't.).

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

This is already an active thread: http://forums.studentdoctor.net/index.php?threads/1093941/


Go to the cheapest US school that will take you, unless you think you're one of rare cases in which the expensive, big name will make a difference (hint: is a $100-200k lottery ticket a good financial decision? It isn't.).

And I was curious about the pre-Allo consensus on this topic so I made a poll.

 

[NoDakDok]

And I was curious about the pre-Allo consensus on this topic so I made a poll.

Something you learn quickly is that the pre-Allo consensus is a terrible way to learn and make decisions, so polling that demographic is pretty useless. The danger of asking premeds things like this is that a lot of them think they know things when really they don't (e.g. skewed, irrelevant opinions like prestige). Listen to users like @QofQuimica, @pgg, etc. The only reason I dissented from @QofQuimica at all was because I took the hypothetical question very literally, whereas she responded more realistically. If it was just a generic "elite vs state" thread there wouldn't have been any discussion beyond attend the school that puts you in less debt barring extreme circumstances.

Edit: Clarification

 

[AspiringERMD]

I think appealing to this kind of consensus is a good idea, but only if reasoning is provided so the person can make his/her own decisions about what reasoning makes the most sense to them. This is particularly true when a poll like this is so dead-even, but any simple poll isn't going to provide much.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

Something you learn quickly is that the pre-Allo consensus is a terrible way to learn and make decisions, so polling that demographic is pretty useless. The danger of asking premeds things like this is that a lot of them think they know things when really they don't (e.g. skewed, irrelevant opinions like prestige). Listen to users like @QofQuimica, @pgg, etc. The only reason I dissented from @QofQuimica at all was because I took the hypothetical question very literally, whereas she responded more realistically. If it was just a generic "elite vs state" thread there wouldn't have been any discussion beyond attend the school that puts you in less debt barring extreme circumstances.

Edit: Clarification

This has nothing to do with my personal views on this topic. And I don't see how "danger" applies here in any way, shape or form. Maybe I didn't frame the question in the best way, but I'm curious as to how ppl on this forum view prestige (and their dreams) vs. debt (as in your "middle of the road state school" with less debt vs. Hopkins, Penn, Stanford, Northwestern etc). I used the "dream scenario" because premeds often dream about these schools. And surely this impacts decisions all the time. But in the end (I mentioned this and so did @QofQuimica) you have to deal with the requirements and rigors that are part of every med school experience.

So you're of the opinion that ppl should opt for less debt. Others (non-premeds) seem to disagree.

 

[NoDakDok]

I don't see how "danger" applies here in any way, shape or form.

The term danger was in respect to misinformation, which is why I advocate paying particular attention to who posts what and put their comments (and polling) into perspective.

So you're of the opinion that ppl should opt for less debt. Others (non-premeds) seem to disagree.

What do you mean by "Other (non-premeds)"? Like the general public, or medically educated individuals?

If it's in regard to the latter, every physician and medical student I have ever talked to regarding this scenario (excluding "dream school" criteria) has strongly supported going to whatever school leaves you in less debt. This is becoming more and more pronounced as reimbursements have been getting cut and medical school is getting more and more expensive every year.

The only people I have seen advocate paying an extensive premium for an expensive elite school are those who aren't thoroughly knowledgeable of the medical education system, with notable exceptions made for outstanding circumstances (e.g. causing separation from family + kids). To go with the "only person who cares what medical school you went to is your mother" post, you shouldn't really care about those opinions when deciding what is best for your own personal future.

 

[ridethecliche]

I work at one of the best hospitals in the country. Of the three surgery attendings I work with, one went to albany, one to what used to be chicago medical school (i think), and the third to drexel. I'm not sure where the others went, but I'm pretty sure it's similar.

This might be more true for surgery than for medicine. From what I've seen, medicine docs care way more about prestige etc.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

The term danger was in respect to misinformation, which is why I advocate paying particular attention to who posts what and put their comments (and polling) into perspective.



What do you mean by "Other (non-premeds)"? Like the general public, or medically educated individuals?

If it's in regard to the latter, every physician and medical student I have ever talked to regarding this scenario (excluding "dream school" criteria) has strongly supported going to whatever school leaves you in less debt. This is becoming more and more pronounced as reimbursements have been getting cut and medical school is getting more and more expensive every year.

The only people I have seen advocate paying an extensive premium for an expensive elite school are those who aren't thoroughly knowledgeable of the medical education system, with notable exceptions made for outstanding circumstances (e.g. causing separation from family + kids). To go with the "only person who cares what medical school you went to is your mother" post, you shouldn't really care about those opinions when deciding what is best for your own personal future.

I hope no one ever refers to this poll's results when deciding on a med school. That would be insane. Although, I do advise taking what senior SDN members (such as @QofQuimica and @DarknightX etc) say about this subject into consideration.
Again, I only asked this question because I was curious about the general pre-Allo opinion regarding this topic. In the other thread, at least one person was advocating for "prestige."
This also came up in a different thread not long ago in the Allo forum (I believe it was referring to IM residencies and med school prestige).

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

It looks like elitism has taken an insurmountable lead.

 

[FutureOncologist]

I don't know how "150K debt" for a top school that most likely poops out a bunch of premeds every year is desirable. I went to a huge Liberal Arts college that I payed nothing for that spits out business majors and engineers like no ones business. There were so few premeds in my class that everyone did at least 2 research projects during their UG curriculum.

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I don't know how "150K debt" for a top school that most likely poops out a bunch of premeds every year is desirable. I went to a huge Liberal Arts college that I payed nothing for that spits out business majors and engineers like no ones business. There were so few premeds in my class that everyone did at least 2 research projects during their UG curriculum.

The thread is about med schools, not Princeton vs State U undergrad. Although, I totally agree with what you said.

 

[TooMuchResearch]

It looks like elitism has taken an insurmountable lead.

I don't think the majority of your respondents spent enough time playing with loan repayment calculators. Or lottery tickets. And they certainly don't listen to the advice given by the majority of those looking at it from the other side.

 

[Ace Khalifa]

How the flying flip are the responses at 50/50 right now? I don't know about y'all, but I'd rather NOT be in the hole when I graduate from med school. Even though residency will pay like nothing compared to an attending's salary, it will still feel good to start making money and know that NONE of it will go toward loan repayment. I can't be the only one who feels this way...

 

[Cyberdyne 101]

I don't think the majority of your respondents spent enough time playing with loan repayment calculators. Or lottery tickets. And they certainly don't listen to the advice given by the majority of those looking at it from the other side.

I would surely hope that when selecting a medical school (under any circumstance) applicants weigh each option carefully and comprehensively. That is way different from clicking on a poll answer on a random August day. Also, I admitted earlier that I didn't word the question well. It says in the OP to use a difference of 150k between both schools if you prefer to view the scenario without zero debt (i.e. no lottery ticket).

And again, it is just an SDN poll.