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Am I missing something here. The AMA and ACGME aren't in agreement? I thought they kinda went hand in hand, at least unofficially.
I'd imagine its the AAMC that is strongly pursuing this in conjunction with the ACGME.Am I missing something here. The AMA and ACGME aren't in agreement? I thought they kinda went hand in hand, at least unofficially.
I'd imagine its the AAMC that is strongly pursuing this in conjunction with the ACGME.
The ACGME consists of representatives from various organizations, including the AMA and AAMC.
I would think the AAMC has more authority over it than the AMA, but I'm not sure of the specific break down.
I guess I'm just surprised that part of an organization would be publicly opposed to a proposal by the organization it's a part of. Weird.
So lets say worst-case scenario this dumb proposal does pass. then what happens to all those unfilled fellowship spots that DOs with AOA residency training and IMGs with prior training used to fill. Wouldn't it make sense for there to be cuts to funding first before passing this restriction?
Funding cuts are already underway.
I don't believe many (if any) fellowship programs receive full Medicare funding anyway.
Sylvanthus knows what my face looks like.... I have to destroy him. (alternatively it was cool to run into an sdner)
update?
Sylvanthus knows what my face looks like.... I have to destroy him. (alternatively it was cool to run into an sdner)
There was an interesting write-up on this by the EM folks last month:
http://download.journals.elsevierhealth.com/pdfs/journals/0196-0644/PIIS0196064412002582.pdf
ACGME Tightens Postgraduate Training Entry Requirements:
Doctors of Osteopathic Medicine, International Medical Graduates Most Affected
... Nasca stressed that whatever changes are made, they will be phased in slowly. "I think the time frame is going to change, based on the comments, but I can't speak for the board. The time frame for the fellowships was initially 2015. I think it's likely that may be pushed back." Implementation also depends on the specialty. "For instance, in internal medicine, the training is 3 years, so the start date might be [2015] or [2016]. But in surgery, where the training is 5 years, we may have to push that back to [2017] or [2018] to be fair to trainees in osteopathic surgical programs who are already in that pipeline."
Ultimately, over time, could the changes lead not to division, but increased cooperation? "One country with 2 medical systems is a bit of an oddity, to say the least," Dr. Cohen said, "and I think there ought to be as much effort to coordinate the 2 and to learn from one another." Indeed, Dr. Suter said, the hubbub around the proposed changes could actually lead to an improved relationship and "might be the best thing that's ever happened between the AOA and the ACGME."
http://www.osteopathic.org/inside-a...ily-report-blog/Lists/Posts/Post.aspx?ID=2756
AOA Daily Blog:
"The American Medical Associations House of Delegates, whose meeting in Chicago concluded today, has approved a resolution related to the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Educations (ACGME) proposed Common Program Requirements. While the ACGMEs proposal would limit DOs ability to train in their programs, the resolution calls upon the AMA to partner with stakeholder organizations, including the ACGME and the AOA, to develop and revise residency and fellowship accreditation standards in order to recognize the alignment of the educational experience of allopathic and osteopathic residents. The AMA is a parent organization of the ACGME, but this resolution will not compel the ACGME to withdraw its proposed Requirements. However, the AOA sees this resolution as a positive action in support of our efforts to resolve the ACGME crisis and preserve access to ACGME programs for DO graduates."
Not sure what to make of this...
basically don't go AOA IM, Neuro, or Rads as your fellowship opportunities will be severely limited.
basically don't go AOA IM, Neuro, or Rads as your fellowship opportunities will be severely limited.
I recently completed an osteopathic TRI (sponsored by a dually-accredited MD/DO FP program) and am being shunted into flight surgery with the USAF. Are you guys telling me that in 3 years when my obligation is up and I want to do a PGY-2/CA-1 start for anes, I will have no choice but to repeat internship and do a 1+3 or 4 year program..?
I thought this garbage was shot down.
Work together is putting things nicely. The ACGME has more spots, more money and more power than the AOA. I think it will go more like "Shape up or go play in your own sandbox for good"I think it might turn out to be a good thing. I see no issue with ACGME and the AOA working together to make all residences equal, in terms of requirements. If that is indeed what they are considering.
It refers to fellowships, not residencies, although I believe you may have some licensing issues in some states with a DO internship + ACGME residency.
It refers to fellowships, not residencies, although I believe you may have some licensing issues in some states with a DO internship + ACGME residency.
I dont think anyone has heard dick, so im guessing it passed and will be implemented. Since ERAS is just opening to us DOs it makes me very tempted to just ignore the DO match and get ready for the MD match.
So, basically, by the time any of this **** is figured out it will be essentially too late to change our minds if we are 4th years and matching. Would hate to match DO and then find out that the change goes through. So, think it is much safer to go MD. Ahh well.
JD- I do have the stats thankfully.
Forgot about this for a while... So basically this means it passed? I am considering osteo ortho programs.. so basically ACGME fellows are now closed off to me? Ugh.
I dont think anyone has heard dick, so im guessing it passed and will be implemented. Since ERAS is just opening to us DOs it makes me very tempted to just ignore the DO match and get ready for the MD match.
You should tell them to aim for ACGME residencies too and only use the AOA as a last resort - doesn't need to be selfish.
People should only worry about things that are within their power to change - pretend you're in AA instead of DO.
lots of things are within our power. Tomorrow 7/17 is a big day. If I weren't in first year orientation. I would be in chicago
I'm in Chicago, doesn't mean I know anything more about this than what is in this thread. Sure would be nice to hear about this type of stuff from my school instead of a public Internet forum, I mean I'm paying them $51,000+ this year
It's not that shocking since the AMA has a % of DO members. The AMA is a quite diverse group (many left the org with their position on the healthcare act). MDs have no AOA equivalent that governs in varying degrees both UME and GME.If i recall correctly, and someone more willing to read the original document can confirm my memory being correct or slightly flawed, class of 2013 is entirely safe. They have a delayed enforcement so that anyone within a rising cycle or the next cycle will not be impacted for the internship-residency end of it. So 2013 would be rising into internship this cycle and would be exempted from the internship --> residency rules if it were enacted today.
The people who might get screwed on this are current 2nd AOA year residents who were looking for a fellowship in ACGME 2 years from enactment.
but all of that is predicated on this being passed. There has been a ton of dissent on this including the AMA coming out against it by suggesting to instead re-examine post-grad training regiments to unify them across the board more rather than taking the ACGME's stance. (funny as the AMA is a major partner member of the ACGME)
If i recall correctly, and someone more willing to read the original document can confirm my memory being correct or slightly flawed, class of 2013 is entirely safe. They have a delayed enforcement so that anyone within a rising cycle or the next cycle will not be impacted for the internship-residency end of it. So 2013 would be rising into internship this cycle and would be exempted from the internship --> residency rules if it were enacted today.
The people who might get screwed on this are current 2nd AOA year residents who were looking for a fellowship in ACGME 2 years from enactment.
but all of that is predicated on this being passed. There has been a ton of dissent on this including the AMA coming out against it by suggesting to instead re-examine post-grad training regiments to unify them across the board more rather than taking the ACGME's stance. (funny as the AMA is a major partner member of the ACGME)