Enlist or med school?

[alefor1]

Hi all,

So I hope this doesn't clog your forum, but it would be great if you guys could give me some advice.

I'm a 24 years old, female, and a latecomer to both the military and medicine. I have a bachelor’s and after being unsuccessful in the job market for a few years (with the exception of manual labor), I’ve decided that two options that guarantee a job are the military or more school for a healthcare position. Not the most passion-fueled conclusion, but there you go.

I’m pretty sure I ultimately want to be a clinician with the military (physical or mental health) – whether that means getting a professional degree and then commissioning, or enlisting and trying for the medic MOS.

The pros for enlisting are that it would be a way to start working now-ish, and I could get some real-world experience and training before I make a big investment of money. I’d get the G.I. bill. The cons are that I have to fulfill a 4 (?) year contract, plus go through basic and tech school. And it’s entirely possible I’ll hate it, and I’ll still have 4 years left. It’s the kind of decision I think I could only make now – the more mature me would probably veto it. The other con is that I may not even be fit for duty, due to about a year of taking Celexa a while back.

Going back to (medical, nursing, social work) school means spending considerable cash, but I still have my civilian life and can later possibly enter as an officer. Maybe I can even try for HPSP and have my education paid for in exchange for a debt of service.

The “wiser” me says go to school, but the me that’s sick of unemployment and wants to feel useful and NOW says enlist. I just don’t know what to do, and if those of you with experience could let me have it, I’d appreciate it. Why did you decide to become a doc/join the military? Were your experiences what you thought they’d be? Would you do either again, given the chance? Are any of you non-traditional, like me? Thanks for your time.

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[Army Recruiter]

Alefor

As a recruiter my job is to tell you, yes join, go for the HPSP. However the only way that answer is applicable to you is if you truly want to serve, which from your post, I think you do. I would not recommend enlisting at this point, unless that is what you want. You could enlist and become a medic or behavioral health specialist. If you want to go the HPSP route, and you have taken the MCAT, you should go to the nearest healthcare recruiter to discuss your options. Try to avoid the regular, enlisted recruiters, they often do not have the most up to date information for the MC (officer) recruiting.

You can look through these forums to find many pros and cons, bottom line is: If you want to serve, why not let Uncle Sam foot the bill and simply "payback" with service.

I hope this helps

Army Healthcare Recruiter

 

[Enkidu]

The "wiser" me says go to school, but the me that's sick of unemployment and wants to feel useful and NOW says enlist.

Well - as a practical matter, how close are you to being able to go to medical school? Do you have to go back to school for pre-reqs? Do you have to improve your GPA? Do you have to do volunteering or anything like that? Even if all of your ducks are already in a row, you wouldn't be able to start for another year at the soonest, but most people in your position have a little bit of prep work to do before even being a competitive applicant.

Nursing or social work may be easier, I'm not really sure how those work.

If you're this antsy about being unemployed and you're not close to getting accepted to medical school, maybe you should consider joining and going to OCS. You went to college after all - as an enlisted soldier a bachelor's degree is worth E4, which means absolutely nothing. You might as well commission and at least make your degree count for something. Once you're in you may have options - for instance you might be able to get training to become a PA. At least, I know some enlisted guys that were able to do that and get commissioned, so I'm sure an officer could as well. Also, I think there is a program for commissioned officers to get released to go to medical school, but I'm sure it comes with some sort of additional obligation. Look into that, maybe.

 

[alefor1]

You can look through these forums to find many pros and cons, bottom line is: If you want to serve, why not let Uncle Sam foot the bill and simply "payback" with service.

Thank you for your knowledgeable advice. Yes, the military wouldn't simply be a way to pay for school, it's something I've been wanting to do for a while now. It's the kind of thing where if I never served I might regret it later in life – whether that's dumb or not I don't know. But HPSP does sound like the more ideal path, especially since I'm older than a lot of recruits and already have a degree.

Well - as a practical matter, how close are you to being able to go to medical school? Do you have to go back to school for pre-reqs? Do you have to improve your GPA? Do you have to do volunteering or anything like that? Even if all of your ducks are already in a row, you wouldn't be able to start for another year at the soonest, but most people in your position have a little bit of prep work to do before even being a competitive applicant.

This is my main issue – I have volunteering and a high GPA but I'm looking at another year or two of pre-requisites. My degree is political science. Although I guess a year in the grand scheme of things (compared to 4) isn't so bad.

If you're this antsy about being unemployed and you're not close to getting accepted to medical school, maybe you should consider joining and going to OCS. You went to college after all - as an enlisted soldier a bachelor's degree is worth E4, which means absolutely nothing.

I heard that OCS is extremely competitive, is that true? I don't have a scientific degree and didn't do ROTC, so I don't know where that leaves me.

Thanks again for everyone's input. One extra question: do the branches vary considerably as far as the medic specialty/training?

 

[244913]

Hi all,

So I hope this doesn't clog your forum, but it would be great if you guys could give me some advice.

I'm a 24 years old, female, and a latecomer to both the military and medicine. I have a bachelor’s and after being unsuccessful in the job market for a few years (with the exception of manual labor), I’ve decided that two options that guarantee a job are the military or more school for a healthcare position. Not the most passion-fueled conclusion, but there you go.

I’m pretty sure I ultimately want to be a clinician with the military (physical or mental health) – whether that means getting a professional degree and then commissioning, or enlisting and trying for the medic MOS.

The pros for enlisting are that it would be a way to start working now-ish, and I could get some real-world experience and training before I make a big investment of money. I’d get the G.I. bill. The cons are that I have to fulfill a 4 (?) year contract, plus go through basic and tech school. And it’s entirely possible I’ll hate it, and I’ll still have 4 years left. It’s the kind of decision I think I could only make now – the more mature me would probably veto it. The other con is that I may not even be fit for duty, due to about a year of taking Celexa a while back.

Going back to (medical, nursing, social work) school means spending considerable cash, but I still have my civilian life and can later possibly enter as an officer. Maybe I can even try for HPSP and have my education paid for in exchange for a debt of service.

The “wiser” me says go to school, but the me that’s sick of unemployment and wants to feel useful and NOW says enlist. I just don’t know what to do, and if those of you with experience could let me have it, I’d appreciate it. Why did you decide to become a doc/join the military? Were your experiences what you thought they’d be? Would you do either again, given the chance? Are any of you non-traditional, like me? Thanks for your time.

Enlisting with the idea of going to medical school is a very bad idea, IMO. You will be far too occupied with your MOS duties and will have little or no time to pursue the kind of dedicated scholarship required to gain admittance to a reputable medical school. Really, as an EM, even a medic, you will have absolutely no control over your time or life. You will be under a very restrictive chain of command and take orders from people who are in no way peers and also will not understand (perhaps even resent) your professional aspirations.

Also, this may sound strange to you, but as a college educated female you will be an oddity, an outlier in the enlisted ranks. There is a very uncouth element across the services but particularly in the Army. I think that you will have almost nothing in common with most of your fellow enlisted. As a female you will be relegated to support or sustainment units rather than true combat arms and these formations are filled with the absolute detritus of society. Females in these units are put in an uncomfortable or awkward situation, if you get my meaning. To be honest though most enlisted females seem to spring from the absolute bottom rungs of society; their behavior and proclivities then are no real surprise.

All of this is somewhat academic if you do not have the grades and mcat scores to be a competetive applicant. What was your undergrad major? How many of the pre-reqs have you completed? Depending on your ability and motivation you might want to consider nursing or an allied health profession. The road to med school is extremely long and you would run up a bunch of debt in the meantime esp. if you have to do post bacc classes.

As for my opinions on the .mil, I have mixed feelings. Financially I don't think it made sense for me- I was an allopathic grad from a comparatively cheap school. I did four years as a gmo flight surgeon and am now in a civilian residency program. There are plenty of threads discussing the merits of the . Mil's reliance on GMO's so I won't beat a dead horse. I was deployed twice to Afghanistan, in all I was gone for roughly 24 of my 48 month payback. I found this aspect of the life incompatible with regards to finding a wife and starting a family so I exited. It was the right choice for me.

Good luck with your decision.

Ex-61N

 

[alefor1]

Enlisting with the idea of going to medical school is a very bad idea, IMO. You will be far too occupied with your MOS duties and will have little or no time to pursue the kind of dedicated scholarship required to gain admittance to a reputable medical school. Really, as an EM, even a medic, you will have absolutely no control over your time or life. You will be under a very restrictive chain of command and take orders from people who are in no way peers and also will not understand (perhaps even resent) your professional aspirations.

Also, this may sound strange to you, but as a college educated female you will be an oddity, an outlier in the enlisted ranks. There is a very uncouth element across the services but particularly in the Army. I think that you will have almost nothing in common with most of your fellow enlisted. As a female you will be relegated to support or sustainment units rather than true combat arms and these formations are filled with the absolute detritus of society. Females in these units are put in an uncomfortable or awkward situation, if you get my meaning. To be honest though most enlisted females seem to spring from the absolute bottom rungs of society; their behavior and proclivities then are no real surprise.

Thanks for this. I am familiar with the downsides of a career in medicine, but was hoping someone would reveal the realities of enlisting (especially as an adult), rather than the usual report you get from recruiters.

As for my opinions on the .mil, I have mixed feelings. Financially I don't think it made sense for me- I was an allopathic grad from a comparatively cheap school. I did four years as a gmo flight surgeon and am now in a civilian residency program. There are plenty of threads discussing the merits of the . Mil's reliance on GMO's so I won't beat a dead horse. I was deployed twice to Afghanistan, in all I was gone for roughly 24 of my 48 month payback. I found this aspect of the life incompatible with regards to finding a wife and starting a family so I exited. It was the right choice for me.

Just curious – what specialty are you pursuing now? Did you choose flight surgery in the mil or was it given to you?

 

[Enkidu]

This is my main issue – I have volunteering and a high GPA but I’m looking at another year or two of pre-requisites. My degree is political science. Although I guess a year in the grand scheme of things (compared to 4) isn't so bad.

I heard that OCS is extremely competitive, is that true? I don’t have a scientific degree and didn’t do ROTC, so I don’t know where that leaves me.

Okay - consider that you may not start medical school for 2 more years. Does that sound tolerable to you? Then 4 years of medical school and 3+ years of residency is a lot of sacrifice if you're mostly looking for job security.

I don't know how "competitive" OCS is. Going there is something that you can get in your initial contract - I got an ROTC commission, so I couldn't say how hard it is once you get there. Frankly, though, I've never been to any army training that I seriously thought I could fail. They all suck, but aside from the initial PT test (and maybe land nav) an ordinarily bright and motivated adult should have no problem.

As for "enlisting" - don't do it. It sucks. It's not like what the recruiters told you and you'll feel like you're wasting you're education.

 

[alefor1]

Okay - consider that you may not start medical school for 2 more years. Does that sound tolerable to you? Then 4 years of medical school and 3+ years of residency is a lot of sacrifice if you're mostly looking for job security.

It's not ideal but better than continuing to work at restaurants and stuff until something magical happens.

As for "enlisting" - don't do it. It sucks. It's not like what the recruiters told you and you'll feel like you're wasting you're education

I suspected this. I guess I'm taking enlisting off the table. That seems like the smarter choice.

 

[Logically]

I heard that OCS is extremely competitive, is that true? I don’t have a scientific degree and didn’t do ROTC, so I don’t know where that leaves me.

OCS is competitive, but do not fear. OCS is one of methods to receive a commission, the others are a military academy (such as west point), ROTC, and direct commissions (individuals with professional degrees such as doctors who will perform that single job function and nothing else). This means that ROTC and OCS are two separate paths to a commissions and do not impact each other.

While science degrees are awesome, it only has an effect if you are going for a field such as the AF Scientist or the Naval Nuclear Engineer. The Army lists their most "scientific" job as an Intelligence Officer - being a Math career. Let me tell you how much of a joke that is.

NavyROTC programs like to joke that if you have a degree in Under Water Basket Weaving you meet the minimum education requirements to fly F-22's!

Do not fear, there is always a way to get what you want in the military (It may suck getting there but everything can be done)

 

[jkhamlin]

Just curious – what specialty are you pursuing now? Did you choose flight surgery in the mil or was it given to you?

One doesn't do "flight surgery." It's a historical term. EVERY doc in the military, except psychiatrists, is a surgeon. I'm a field surgeon in the Army National Guard, even though I have no general surgery training. I drill with a pathology resident who is also a field surgeon. Another is an emergency physician attending, but he is also a field surgeon. Most of what we do is pencil pushing. Flight surgeon means one is an Air Force doctor.

Surgeon generals are rarely actual general surgeons. In fact, beyond anyone's comprehension or agreement, the current surgeon general of the Army is a NURSE.

 

[alefor1]

One doesn't do "flight surgery." It's a historical term. EVERY doc in the military, except psychiatrists, is a surgeon. I'm a field surgeon in the Army National Guard, even though I have no general surgery training. I drill with a pathology resident who is also a field surgeon. Another is an emergency physician attending, but he is also a field surgeon. Most of what we do is pencil pushing. Flight surgeon means one is an Air Force doctor.

Gotcha. I guess I was wondering about the transition from military-specific specialties to civilian residencies, but that clears that up.

 

[notdeadyet]

Flight surgeon means one is an Air Force doctor.

No, flight surgeon is a doctor who has completed a flight surgeon school and has been tasked to the role of taking care of pilots. The Army and Navy both have plenty of flight surgeons. It's not limited to the Air Force and not all doctors in the Air Force are flight surgeons.

You may already know that, but to the casual reader, you may be confusing them what a flight surgeon is.

 

[Legion1]

Do not go down this path unless you are sure you want to be a Soldier, Airman, Marine, etc regardless of anything else. I am an Army Basic Training Company Commander and have had over 2,000 trainee pass through my company. Do I get 25-35 year old college educated Soldiers, male and female? Yes- about 3 - 6% per cycle. I have yet to meet one who didn't join because of either the outside job market or "this is something that I have always wanted to do..." The military will OWN you. The idea of enlisting and eventually going to medical school as fine as long as you realize this and are comfortable with the prospect of returning to school after the military, or in a best case scenario, slowly taking your classes online and applying to military friendly DO schools. I joined the Army in 2007 at 23 after college because I thought it was my duty to support my country in a time of war, especially with no wife or children while so many were leaving widows. I am now leaving the Army at 30 to become a doctor. You still have plenty of time. I had no intention of using the Army for anything, simply to serve and its a good thing because I would have failed miserably if I had tried to beat that system. If you want to join the military, do it. If you want to be a doctor, do it. Don't try and combine the two. I have no regrets, but I believe that is mostly because I did not try to plan things out-I just ran toward the action and now that the action is dying down I am running toward a new adventure.

 

[jkhamlin]

No, flight surgeon is a doctor who has completed a flight surgeon school and has been tasked to the role of taking care of pilots. The Army and Navy both have plenty of flight surgeons. It's not limited to the Air Force and not all doctors in the Air Force are flight surgeons.

You may already know that, but to the casual reader, you may be confusing them what a flight surgeon is.

Read the rest of my post for why you are incorrect. You are confusing the specialty surgeon with the historical term surgeon. BTW, what branch are YOU in?

And again, I am a field surgeon. I guarantee I have absolutely no general surgery training beyond the basic stuff we ALL get. And I don't work in fields, either. I generally do H&Ps inside buildings.

 

[teacherman84]

Read the rest of my post for why you are incorrect. You are confusing the specialty surgeon with the historical term surgeon. BTW, what branch are YOU in?

And again, I am a field surgeon. I guarantee I have absolutely no general surgery training beyond the basic stuff we ALL get. And I don't work in fields, either. I generally do H&Ps inside buildings.

Hes really not though, just clarifying a misleading sentence you used. Being a "Flight Surgeon" does not just mean you are a doctor in the AF, it is a role that requires specific training to take care of flyers and they are present in the Navy, Army, and Coast Guard(or PHS) as well. Not every doc in the AF is a flight surgeon, in fact its way under manned and the current AF surgeon general is trying to push as many docs as possible so we have more Flight Surgrons.

 

[JordanUSAF]

I'm currently enlisted in the USAF and have dreams to become an orthopedic surgeon. Having no college education beyond a few AP classes, my life's rough draft right now is to get the AECP scholarship which will allow me to get my BA and then as a 2Lt, get the HPSP scholarship for med school.

I'm not worried about all the time in service you have to pay back to the AF because I want to be a surgeon for the military and will probably end up staying in until I'm too old to pass the PT test.

I want to do this because after being injured myself during training and learning so much about how the body works, I realized I want to help other troops who get hurt for whatever reason.

Ortho caught my eye because during TACP indoc I learned all about how our muscles work and how to maximize performance (which ended up injuring me) and I want to know everything there is to know about making our bodies physically stronger. So many troops in the special operations community and even conventional push themselves to extraordinary limits which gets them injured and then others are wounded on the battlefield. I want to be the guy who gets them back on their feet.

I know not having college under my belt really kills my right to even be posting on this site but I've been on here for a while creeping around threads and I'd like some advice from people who've taken a path similar or just anyone who can talk to me more in depth about these programs the military offers.

I've always been above average in school and work to the best of my ability but I have no idea how I'd perform on the MCAT or in med school. My primary concern I guess is I feel like I'm late on making these decisions as I'd assume most doctors knew would they wanted to do early on in high school. I'm only 19 years old so I still have my life ahead of me but I'm already about a year behind in schooling compared to my peers. So please let me know what you think of my aspirations and give me any advice you can.

 

[cautionmaster]

its been a while since I drank the blue kool aid, but AECP is career specific right? Everyone I saw who did that became a Nurse, and had an ADSC attached. Probably some engineers, language specialists, etc who go through it. It's a great program if that's what you want to do. As a bridge to medicine, I think not as great. Reference all of the threads here about joining ROTC with the intent of going to medical school.

I have seen enlisted folks complete prerequisites and their bachelor's degree with CCAF, tuition assistance (sequester willing), and GI Bill or some combination. A lot of them go the route of the Interservice PA Program but some applied to HPSP/USUHS. It's hard when military life, deployments, family get in the way and may affect your GPA. An alternative would be to do 3 years, get your GI bill, then get a bachelors and do HPSP.

You sound pretty genuine, so whatever you do, good luck and I hope you make it!

 

[cautionmaster]

Read the rest of my post for why you are incorrect. You are confusing the specialty surgeon with the historical term surgeon. BTW, what branch are YOU in?

And again, I am a field surgeon. I guarantee I have absolutely no general surgery training beyond the basic stuff we ALL get. And I don't work in fields, either. I generally do H&Ps inside buildings.

Actually, he is right. Flight Surgeon does not imply Air Force doctor, all branches have them and yes the majority of them are primary care docs not surgeons.

Yes, you may be a 'field surgeon' who doesn't go into fields or do surgery, but trust me flight surgeons do fly.

 

[JordanUSAF]

If the AECP wouldn't be a good idea, are there any other programs or routes to get a Bachelors while enlisted? I doubt med school would consider an online degree so I'm staying away from that. I know there are a few other enlisted-officer programs that help you get a degree like SOAR.

 

[JordanUSAF]

And I heard that CCAF credits are worthless outside of the military. How true is that? I could always get my bachelors through the CCAF, online and a few CLEPs but I feel like that'd just make it so much harder to get into med school.

 

[Qurmish]

I want to echo what many other posters have said here. DO NOT enlist in the military if you have long term aspirations of going to medical school. As uncomfortable as it may be to be unemployed and having to take out loans for a postbacc, nothing compares to the years you will give up delaying your education by enlisting. Do not listen to anyone who tells you that you will be able to take any of the premed classes while active duty--these classes are very challenging and demand your full attention. The kinds of classes you might be able to take will be community college level, part time, in the evenings, and during weekends. It is likely that these classes would not be acceptable for medical school admission.

You will lose 3-5 years towards your goal of becoming a physician in order to save a little bit of money through the GI Bill. Those years could otherwise be spent working as physician with much higher earning power.

 

[Qurmish]

If the AECP wouldn't be a good idea, are there any other programs or routes to get a Bachelors while enlisted? I doubt med school would consider an online degree so I'm staying away from that. I know there are a few other enlisted-officer programs that help you get a degree like SOAR.

It would be very advantageous to receive your bachelor's degree from a reputable 4-year institution. Most adcoms won't know what to do with your military credentials and would likely be a little leery of them. Your mileage will vary on how much of the CLEP and CCAF your school would consider. I went to a large research university on the east coast after being in the Army for 5 years during which I attended a 34 week long tech school. My school granted one physical education credit total--I believe my AARTS transcript indicated 40 or so credits.

I know you probably don't want to hear this, but even if you can swing getting a BA by doing an online degree or something like that (which I think would make your life extremely difficult when you applied for medical school) you would be missing out on a great opportunity. College is a really remarkable time and one that cannot be easily replaced. If you are thinking seriously about medical school, it would be best for you to take the SAT/ACT (if you haven't already,) apply for the best schools you can get into, and take advantage of the amazing GI Bill.

I had a lot of anxiety about playing "catch up" when I got out of the Army. All of my high school friends had already graduated and were starting their careers of going to graduate school. I was 5 years older than most of my freshman classmates, which was at times very uncomfortable. It was 100% worth it though, and I received an acceptance to a great MD program. I have a lot of other veteran friends who pursued similar paths and would argue to the same.

 

[JordanUSAF]

It would be very advantageous to receive your bachelor's degree from a reputable 4-year institution. Most adcoms won't know what to do with your military credentials and would likely be a little leery of them. Your mileage will vary on how much of the CLEP and CCAF your school would consider. I went to a large research university on the east coast after being in the Army for 5 years during which I attended a 34 week long tech school. My school granted one physical education credit total--I believe my AARTS transcript indicated 40 or so credits.

I know you probably don't want to hear this, but even if you can swing getting a BA by doing an online degree or something like that (which I think would make your life extremely difficult when you applied for medical school) you would be missing out on a great opportunity. College is a really remarkable time and one that cannot be easily replaced. If you are thinking seriously about medical school, it would be best for you to take the SAT/ACT (if you haven't already,) apply for the best schools you can get into, and take advantage of the amazing GI Bill.

I had a lot of anxiety about playing "catch up" when I got out of the Army. All of my high school friends had already graduated and were starting their careers of going to graduate school. I was 5 years older than most of my freshman classmates, which was at times very uncomfortable. It was 100% worth it though, and I received an acceptance to a great MD program. I have a lot of other veteran friends who pursued similar paths and would argue to the same.

My AF contract is only 4 years (expires Jan2016). So you think if I can't get some program that'll send me to a real university, I should forget about reenlisting and go through school as a civilian with the GI? That'd put me 4 years behind my peers but you said you're 5. Is it worth playing catch up in your opinion? BTW my high school SAT score was 1960. Not anything to brag about but that was with no SAT prep or anything.

 

[Cooperd0g]

My AF contract is only 4 years (expires Jan2016). So you think if I can't get some program that'll send me to a real university, I should forget about reenlisting and go through school as a civilian with the GI? That'd put me 4 years behind my peers but you said you're 5. Is it worth playing catch up in your opinion? BTW my high school SAT score was 1960. Not anything to brag about but that was with no SAT prep or anything.

I don't know what the enlisted commissioning programs are like in the Air Force, but you for sure want to graduate with bachelor's from a traditional 4 year school for med school applications. Forget about any military credits also from your enlisted time. Assuming no commissioning program works well for you or you don't get it then yes, forget about reenlisting and use the GI Bill for undergrad. Then you go to med school and can do it as a civilian, USUHS, HPSP, FAP, direct entry ...

Also, where are you stationed? Try and get to FL or TX and become a resident there. They have lots of state undergrad and med schools, inexpensive tuition and are military friendly. You always have your best shot at your state school.

 

[JordanUSAF]

I'm on Lackland AFB in San Antonio, TX. I'll definitely check out the state schools here.

 

[Qurmish]

My AF contract is only 4 years (expires Jan2016). So you think if I can't get some program that'll send me to a real university, I should forget about reenlisting and go through school as a civilian with the GI? That'd put me 4 years behind my peers but you said you're 5. Is it worth playing catch up in your opinion? BTW my high school SAT score was 1960. Not anything to brag about but that was with no SAT prep or anything.

I don't know much about the Air Force college option programs, so it would be wrong for me to speculate at all about them. I looked a lot into doing an Army college option commissioning path when I was enlisted, but decided it against it for a myriad of reasons. The most pressing concern for me was that it came with a lot of strings attached and may have made it much more complicated to accomplish my goals.

I would bet that you would probably have a lot of success with your test scores and your military background applying to colleges. It's very nice to have options and full autonomy to figure out the best academic path for you. You might feel limited with a contract that states you have to finish all your school in X number of years and complete X number of requirements (Green to Gold required participation in ROTC).

What I found is that I wasn't really playing catch up. The average age of first year medical students is 24. I would imagine you would be pretty close that if you start school after you ETS. More and more students are coming to medicine later in life. A lot of students take time off or chose medicine as a career change.

http://web.jhu.edu/prepro/health/admissions_stats.html

 

[cautionmaster]

If the AECP wouldn't be a good idea, are there any other programs or routes to get a Bachelors while enlisted? I doubt med school would consider an online degree so I'm staying away from that. I know there are a few other enlisted-officer programs that help you get a degree like SOAR.

It sounds like there are some wise posters here who went the enlisted to med school route. They seem to say that get the most respected 4 year degree as possible. I know a few that got bachelors part time and went into PA or MD school, but yes their science classes were from reputable institutions (like large state schools). Again, they would know more.

And I heard that CCAF credits are worthless outside of the military. How true is that? I could always get my bachelors through the CCAF, online and a few CLEPs but I feel like that'd just make it so much harder to get into med school.

Again, the wise men say not to do this, I have a few anecdotes to say people have done it, but again all science pre-reqs at the most reputable institution in your area for part time studies. Oh, and get a 4.0 that will help.

My AF contract is only 4 years (expires Jan2016). So you think if I can't get some program that'll send me to a real university, I should forget about reenlisting and go through school as a civilian with the GI? That'd put me 4 years behind my peers but you said you're 5. Is it worth playing catch up in your opinion? BTW my high school SAT score was 1960. Not anything to brag about but that was with no SAT prep or anything.

4-5 years 'behind' is nothing anymore. 40 year olds are going to med school. Get some good AF experience to add to your resume and talk about in interviews, it won't hurt. If you do a commissioning program while enlisted you will have an ADSC in whatever specialty (AFSC) they send you for, so you will be behind further, and lateral transfers are not always available. It seems like the wise men like the GI Bill route given that it allows you to concentrate on school as a civilian.

 

[JordanUSAF]

This is all good advice and I really appreciate it. I think now I'm leaning towards getting my BA after my contract and then using the HSPS to get back in as a military physician. I've just been obsessing over the idea of being 4 years "behind" (probably because my fiancé is already heading to law school in a year and will be a lawyer a whole decade before I could ever be a surgeon). Just feels strange doing this 4 year contract that has no real place in my ultimate goals besides giving me the GI Bill. Maybe I should cross train into a medical job since special tactics training is pretty much meaningless to med school admissions.

 

[Qurmish]

It sounds like there are some wise posters here who went the enlisted to med school route. They seem to say that get the most respected 4 year degree as possible. I know a few that got bachelors part time and went into PA or MD school, but yes their science classes were from reputable institutions (like large state schools). Again, they would know more.



Again, the wise men say not to do this, I have a few anecdotes to say people have done it, but again all science pre-reqs at the most reputable institution in your area for part time studies. Oh, and get a 4.0 that will help.

Everyone's experience will certainly be different. It's a bit hard for me to imagine taking Orgo with a lab while active though. I took about 35 credits at a local community college in Tacoma when I was in the Army using TA and it was perfectly fine. The college and instructors were very supportive when I had to miss exams and required extensions due to unexpected field training. Because of my job I was often tapped without much advance notice to go to the field. I don't think that a large 4-year school would be that accommodating, especially when taking labs. I could potentially see how someone might be able to do that though if they had a very stable position and had a very supportive command staff that wouldn't keep them late for some mandatory PowerPoint training.

You can browse around SDN though to look into how important it is to have a diploma from a solid 4-year institution instead of an online program or something similar. I remember doing some research and hearing that it is fairly risky to take prereqs at community colleges. It might not be unreasonable to get a BA somewhere convenient for active duty military and then take all the prereqs at a well known school. I wouldn't say that is 100% without risk though. I would emphasize again though that this is your education, and although you do need to meet the requirements if you wish to apply to medical school, you should also strongly consider where you think you would get the most solid education. I really enjoyed being able to do research in the biology department, shadowing doctors affiliated with the university hospital, and talking to my professors about their fields of study. I think that experience is hard to pass up on.

Plus, the GI Bill is exceedingly generous. It's totally practical to do it this way because you can go to school for free and get a solid stipend prorated to your expected living expenses. The enlisted to commissioned college options really need to step it up to compete with the GI Bill.

 

[Cooperd0g]

I'm on Lackland AFB in San Antonio, TX. I'll definitely check out the state schools here.

Definitely become a resident of TX - driver's license, car registration (if you have one), and voter registration. Apply to a state school for undergrad when your enlistment is up and the GI bill will cover the whole thing. Then apply to med school via any way you wish focusing on TX schools - apply to every TX med school. If you get into a state school you won't need HPSP unless you really want to be in the military. But if that is the case then you might as well go for USUHS.

If you are 19 now with 3 years left then you'll be 22 starting undergrad and 26 when ready to start med school. A ton of guys in my class started at 24-27 years old. Some took 5 years to do undergrad, then a year off, then a 2 year master's or worked for a year or two and did a post-bac program. Don't sweat the age thing. I started last year at 35.

 

[JordanUSAF]

Definitely become a resident of TX - driver's license, car registration (if you have one), and voter registration. Apply to a state school for undergrad when your enlistment is up and the GI bill will cover the whole thing. Then apply to med school via any way you wish focusing on TX schools - apply to every TX med school. If you get into a state school you won't need HPSP unless you really want to be in the military. But if that is the case then you might as well go for USUHS.

If you are 19 now with 3 years left then you'll be 22 starting undergrad and 26 when ready to start med school. A ton of guys in my class started at 24-27 years old. Some took 5 years to do undergrad, then a year off, then a 2 year master's or worked for a year or two and did a post-bac program. Don't sweat the age thing. I started last year at 35.

I really want to be a military physician, even if that means not getting ortho and having a much smaller salary. Nobody in my family has ever made more than 30k a year so I'd be perfectly content with 50k (although I'd appreciate more with such an extreme educational background). For me, it's not about the money, it's about the troops and the drive to serve. I'm proud every morning to put on my E-1 uniform that says "United States" over my heart.
But back on topic, the HSPS seems easy to get so long as you meet the requirements which aren't anything extraordinary. USUHS is much more competitive and being just an above average student in high school, I don't know how well I'd compete academically against other aspiring doctors. I'd definitely apply for it and work my rear off in school to get a 4.0 and high MCAT score but I can't rely on USUHS as a definite plan. HSPS seems like a good go for me as my "can do" plan I can use USUHS as my "want to do" plan. Besides those two routes, are there any others to become a military physician?

 

[Qurmish]

I really want to be a military physician, even if that means not getting ortho and having a much smaller salary. Nobody in my family has ever made more than 30k a year so I'd be perfectly content with 50k (although I'd appreciate more with such an extreme educational background). For me, it's not about the money, it's about the troops and the drive to serve. I'm proud every morning to put on my E-1 uniform that says "United States" over my heart.
But back on topic, the HSPS seems easy to get so long as you meet the requirements which aren't anything extraordinary. USUHS is much more competitive and being just an above average student in high school, I don't know how well I'd compete academically against other aspiring doctors. I'd definitely apply for it and work my rear off in school to get a 4.0 and high MCAT score but I can't rely on USUHS as a definite plan. HSPS seems like a good go for me as my "can do" plan I can use USUHS as my "want to do" plan. Besides those two routes, are there any others to become a military physician?

USUHS is a selective MD school, but it certainly isn't anywhere close to the most selective. All MD schools are pretty selective and you should keep all of your options open.

Aside from USUHS and HPSP there is also the possibility of just applying to the medical directly sometime after you have MD diploma in hand.

Try not to get ahead of yourself. Getting into medicine is a very long and arduous process. Enjoy your time now doing what you are doing. Take the time to maintain your interest in medicine and seek out health related volunteer opportunities. See if you can shadow some docs both Air Force and civilian in a variety of departments. The Air Force might sponsor (at the very least through Tuition's Assistance) you to take an EMT-B course, which is an enjoyable way of seeing a little more about that facet of healthcare. Certified EMTs got a few promotion points in the Army, might be worth looking into if there is any tangible advantage with the Air Force. It's super important to keep in mind that you should try to enjoy everything while you are doing it, even if it is just a stepping stone for your goals.

 

[cautionmaster]

I really want to be a military physician, even if that means not getting ortho and having a much smaller salary. Nobody in my family has ever made more than 30k a year so I'd be perfectly content with 50k (although I'd appreciate more with such an extreme educational background). For me, it's not about the money, it's about the troops and the drive to serve. I'm proud every morning to put on my E-1 uniform that says "United States" over my heart.
But back on topic, the HSPS seems easy to get so long as you meet the requirements which aren't anything extraordinary. USUHS is much more competitive and being just an above average student in high school, I don't know how well I'd compete academically against other aspiring doctors. I'd definitely apply for it and work my rear off in school to get a 4.0 and high MCAT score but I can't rely on USUHS as a definite plan. HSPS seems like a good go for me as my "can do" plan I can use USUHS as my "want to do" plan. Besides those two routes, are there any others to become a military physician?

I admire your enthusiasm, however I implore you to look at your life 5-10 years down the road and not while currently in your training pipeline in order to determine how to achieve your goal of medical school. Getting in is by far the hardest part. Once you get in, you can decide how to go military. USUHS is as attainable as any MD school; I am not familiar with their acceptance process but they probably value prior service.

You mentioned you were in the TACP pipeline and mentioned cross training into 4N. You should ask yourself what you want to do in the Air Force as an enlisted member, not ask what will help you with medical school. TACP will take you far away and give you great experiences that you will not get anywhere else. Becoming a medical technician (4N) will give you hands on medical skills, but that doesn't mean it's better to use that to get to medical school. They also do a lot of paperwork and SCUT (= Some Common Unfinished Task). In reference to the EMT-B comment, there was a big push to send many 4N AFSCs to both EMT-B and IDMT (Independent Duty Medical Technician) school. That is an animal in itself - you will find your responsibilities greatly increased if this occurs. If you want to do this, talk to the functional and see where things are going. I met many IDMTs who were as good as PAs. Of course, the better you are, the more places they will use you...

 

[pgg]

If you want to be a physician, either in or out of the military, this is what you should do:

Serve out your current enlistment contract. If possible, get some university credits that are transferrable to a 4 year institution.

Get out of the Air Force. Use your post-9/11 GI Bill to finish your undergrad degree at a real university as a full time student. Do well, smoke the MCAT, live a little.

Go to medical school. Consider USUHS or HPSP. Or go civilian via student loans, and come back into the military via FAP.



Not all undergraduate degrees are created equal. The kind of bachelor's degree most people can scrape together while enlisted in the armed forces generally does not impress medical school admission committees. You need a real degree from a reputable university.