Epidemiology or Biostatistics MD/PhD

[TheHappyCamper]

It sounds like something I would really enjoy (especially Biostats), so I want to know how does one demonstrate an interest in such a program? I am going to take upper level math and stats, because I enjoy the subjects a lot, if this helps.

I started basic science work last semester, worked this summer, and plan to work the next two semesters and next summer in order to apply next cycle. I have decent clinical exposure, a 3.9+ science and total gpa, and have been getting 37+ on AAMC practice MCATs. Would I even have a chance, or should I just stick to MD only and try to get into research without the PhD portion?

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[InsertUsername]

The best way would be to start doing epi/biostat research. It is hard to convince someone that you are interested in a field without at least a little firsthand experience. Try and see if there are any opportunities at your school to do some research, or just cold email a lot of epi professors at your school. If you start taking biostats you could also ask the professors for research opportunities.

Your stats look good (if you can deliver on the MCAT) enough to get you into a program, but keep in mind that MD/PhDs in epi/biostats are uncommon and you'll need a good justification for why you want to do MD/PhD instead of the much more common MD/MPH.

 

[tortuga87]

Epidemiology and biostatistics are different. An MPH does not make you a biostatistician.

Epidemiologists spend most of their time applying statistical methods, while academic biostatisticians spend more of their time developing new methods. An epidemiologist in practice will essentially be spending most of his/her time data dredging on SAS, Minitab or SPSS and maybe R. Biostatisticians in industry (as opposed to academia) usually do the same thing. Statisticians sometimes call this type of work as being a "package monkey." Most epidemiologists do not know how to develop new methods beyond simple modifications.

Are you more interested in the scientific insights provided by big data (epidemiology), or developing new ways to analyze data (biostatistics)?

 

[TheHappyCamper]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses. I would be interested in such a program so that I could perform statistical analysis on research projects where I am driving or contributing to the questions that are being asked and angles that are being taken. I would love to be able to apply my passion for math to medically relevant research, so Biostats, rather than Epidemiology, sounds more interesting.

Unfortunately for me, my school does not have any biostats professors. Am I just out of luck? There are some computational aspects to my basic science research, and I plan on taking high level statistics courses. Are these enough for me to apply? Basic science also interests me, so could I apply saying I would be interested in both, and say I would decide after getting to work in both kinds of labs? I have heard of people doing early lab rotations the summer before MS1, maybe I could do this to decide?

Also, would I have to take the GRE in addition to the MCAT if I wanted to do MD/PhD in Biostats?

Thanks so much for your help, you guys.

 

[tortuga87]

You don't have to take the GRE

They say MD/PhD admissions committees dont really care what type of research you do, as long as you dedicate to it. That being said, some work in biostats will be helpful though to defend yourself during the interview, and it doesnt have to be under a biostats department PI. You will have 2 years in med school and about 2-3 summar lab rotations to decide what you really want to do for the PhD anyways.

Unless you are a beast, I would say to not spread yourself out too thin with two labs. Your goal is really to get a really good letter from your PI, a high GPA, and a high MCAT score.

 

[Neuronix]

They say MD/PhD admissions committees dont really care what type of research you do, as long as it's basic science

Fixed that for you. Anything outside basic science is by special permission only and only at a limited number of programs. The further you get from basic science, the harder it gets. To make a case for it you should already have significant experience in the area.

Otherwise you could matriculate and after 2nd year tell them "I'm doing what I want or dropping out." I've seen it. They may or may not call your bluff on that one.

 

[tortuga87]

how is biostats not a basic science? do you mean basic science = molecular biology?

 

[Neuronix]

For purposes of this discussion, basic research = bench research.

 

[daolso]

Hey guys, thanks for the responses. I would be interested in such a program so that I could perform statistical analysis on research projects where I am driving or contributing to the questions that are being asked and angles that are being taken. I would love to be able to apply my passion for math to medically relevant research, so Biostats, rather than Epidemiology, sounds more interesting.

Unfortunately for me, my school does not have any biostats professors. Am I just out of luck? There are some computational aspects to my basic science research, and I plan on taking high level statistics courses. Are these enough for me to apply? Basic science also interests me, so could I apply saying I would be interested in both, and say I would decide after getting to work in both kinds of labs? I have heard of people doing early lab rotations the summer before MS1, maybe I could do this to decide?

Also, would I have to take the GRE in addition to the MCAT if I wanted to do MD/PhD in Biostats?

Thanks so much for your help, you guys.

The program I am in matriculated a biostats guy this year. We also have a few dry lab engineers.

But all of them had experience in their respective fields before applying. I think it would be tough to sell your interest in biostats without having actually done any such research. You could try to do a summer away at another university this year (through an REU or similar program, Google is your friend). That would at least give you a foot in the door so you can say you have a reason to consider it.

http://www.nhlbi.nih.gov/research/training/summer-institute-biostatistics-t15.htm
http://www.mayoclinic.org/jobs/internships/biomedical-statistics-informatics/overview

Or you could try to matriculate and then do what Neuronix said. Some programs may fight you on it though.

 

[bd4727]

Neuronix is right, at most programs they would not entertain the idea of doing an Epi/Biostats PhD. I don't know if there is a list of them or something, but there are some programs that specifically advertise that they allow their students to do this kind of PhD. It is usually at schools with a prominent Public Health program, so maybe start there and work backwards to the MSTP at that institution. But you would be basically seen as a 'non-traditional' MSTP applicant in that sense.

 

[InsertUsername]

^ As someone currently applying to epi/biostats MSTP programs I would say that a surprising amount of programs allow this work. I've only seen a few universities that flat out won't let people do a PhD in either of these fields, but even in those there is usually someone working on epi related projects in their genetics departments. You will have to cut some schools but not as many as you might think.

But I suppose a disclaimer would be that since I haven't gone through the full cycle yet I'm not sure how difficult it is to actually land an MSTP spot if you want to do research in these fields. It could be that a lot of schools say they'll allow it but only let stellar applicants through.

However, I also agree with the above sentiment that experience is invaluable if you want to pursue this route. Most programs have ~1 or 2 epi MSTPs every 3-4 years so you will need to be able to convince them that you enjoy the work and show them that you have found some success in it. I took a gap year after undergrad just to do epidemiology research. If you can't find anything at your UG I would recommend looking into some gap year opportunities to get exposure prior to applying MSTP.