For those of you who are working full-time and not in a post-bacc program, how do you find a sufficient number of evening classes to attend? I have been doing a few course searches and can't seem to find enough classes held after 4pm. I live in a city with at least 2-3 universities in the immediate area but aside from the basic bio and so forth, none of the upper level science courses are ever scheduled for the evening.
How many of you were able to maintain your work schedule and still get the upper level courses completed? Is entering some program inevitable?
In summary, I guess I am basically pumping the non-traditional board on how everyone here manages to get everything done!
Thanks in advance for the advice!
Its not easy, but not impossible. You may have to jump around a bit.
You don't say where you live, or what kind of job you have, but I'll tell you what I've done.
I live in New York City, and I work full time at a hospital. My work hours are 6 in the morning until 3 pm every day. NY has a CUNY (City University of New York) college system comprised of several schools. I "matriculated" at one school, where I took chem I and II, and orgo chem I and II over the spring and fall semesters, one at a time, because that's all i could fit time wise into my schedule. I already have an undergrad degree that I received in 2004, so I didnt need a new degree, I just needed the science pre-reqs before I took the MCAT. I was in work until 3pm, then drove back to the school by 430 pm, would drop by my apartment to do homework or read, and was in class by 630 pm until almost 10 pm at night, three days a week. During the summer I took Bio I and II ( summer 2007) after work at ANOTHER cuny school because the first one didnt offer evening summer classes so had to go elsewhere over the summer, four or five days a week, from 6 pm until almost 11 pm every day, then had to be at work again at 6 the next morning. Took Physics I and II at a third CUNY school in summer 2008, same deal, five days a week, four hours a day after work. All summer long I was dealing with being out of my apartment 15-17 hours a day, then going home, sleeping a couple hours, waking up and doing it all over again. During the regular semesters it was almost the same schedule except it was 3 days a week instead of five days a week due to not being summer sessions. I dont think that taking one class at at time puts me at a disadvantage at all, because its not like I spent the rest of the day sitting on my bum doing nothing. I work in a high stress, healthcare job all day long, I have my own patients that I treat, and that's alot more clinical experience to talk about in an interview than some 22 year old kid who spent 3 hours a week volunteering in an ER or shadowing some doctor. I have my OWN patients, I dont watch some doctor talk to his a couple hours a week. There are benefits to being a non-trad, and maturity and experience are just two of those benefits. Alot of 20 year old kids in my science courses (I am current 26, by the way, and just finished the pre reqs this semester and taking the MCAT in April 2009), but anyway, alot of these 20 year old kids had no idea what its really like to work with patients, or be a doctor, or work in a hospital. They'd see someone do surgery and decide "oh how cool, I want to be a doctor". Well duh! Watching surgery is exciting! How about dealing with a**hole patients and still having to treat them with the same medical urgency you treat anyone else? Or going to work in the morning and having one of your patients have a siezure in your office and die in your arms as you try to revive them from the overdose of drugs they just took? These are things I have done that no one else in my classes can say they did by volunteering 3 hours a week in a hospital.
Anyway, By "shopping around" at different universitites, I was able to find evening classes in each subject for the most part. I did four classes at one school, two at another, and two at a third. I called some med schools in the area to ask them if it was really a bad thing to have done it this way, since my job didnt allow me to have time for a "traditional" post bacc program (eg- Columbia univeristy had an official post-bacc, but it was full time and day time classes, so there was no way I could do that. I have rent to pay!) and all the med schools I spoke to told me that while they preferred you take full course loads and all at the same school, it was not a negtative thing to do it my way. They understand that alot of people are "non traditional" students now adays. You can't compare a 22 year old who has never had a real job in their life, who still has mommy and daddy paying for everything, with someone like me who is already a college graduate (from a top school, no less) , who is working full time in a very stressful job, has rent to pay, and can't just quit their job to go back to school full time.
Again, you didnt say what type of job you have, or what flexibility you have with your schedule, or where you live, but you don't need to take all those upper level science courses to apply to med school. You need an undergrad degree, the 2 semesters of chem, o-chem, bio and physics, and a good GPA in all of the above, and even more important, a great MCAT. Seriously, my aunt works on a med school admissions comittee, and the MCAT can and will make or break your application, because its the one factor that is the same for every applicant to be compared against one another. You dont HAVE to take Biochem, or advanced physics and chem and bio courses, etc, to apply to medical school. It helps, sure, to have more on your plate, but not if you can't ace them becuse you are struggling to get to work every day and pay all your bills. Its just how it is. Every school says in the description of a class whether it is meant for "pre health" people or "non science" majors. Take the ones for "pre health" people: general chem I and II, Organic chem I and II, Physics I and II and Bio I and II, ace the MCAT, have great experience outside of work if you dont already work in a medical field like I do, and go for it. Volunteering in anything (I volunteered at a residental program for families that are homeless with HIV/AIDS), and clinical experience (if you don't work in medical like I do, then you must volunteer and shadow as much as you can at a hospital) are very important as well. Focus on those more than taking upper level science courses that you dont need to apply to med school.
Applying as a non trad is NOT the same as applying as a traditional student, 22 years old right out of college, and dont let anyone tell you anything different. The pre health advisor at my current school is a total *****. She actually had the nerve to tell me that "if you were serious about medical school you would have quit your job to take full course load" Um, hello? I have RENT to pay, and what the hell did she think i did as an undergrad???? I took a full courseload for FOUR years! Now I WORK at a HOSPITAL FULL TIME with my OWN PATIENTS, AND I am taking science classes AND getting better grades than my 20 year old counterparts who have nothing better to do than wake up at 10 am and go to classes all day and not have to deal with people dying on their office bloody floor !
Sorry this is so long, but I get so worked up when people say things like there is some definite formula for getting into medical school, and that straying from it is a death sentence. So untrue. Yes, grades are important, but MCAT is even more important, and once you get the interviews, your personality, composure, maturity and life experience (medical/clinical, volunteering, research, etc) are even more important. I know plenty of people that know how to study study study and get good grades but have no conception of the real world or medicine in a rational, realistic way, and they couldnt get into medical schools.
Sorry if these seems long and babbling but its been a long night and im a little delirious right now! Good luck! feel free to PM with any questions and I might be more comprehensible when Ive slept a little ;-)
happy Holidays!
