Ever been refused a Letter of Recommendation?

[fireheart]

I shadowed at a small outpatient clinic for about 40 hours and feel like I got to know the PT who owned it pretty well. I was on time, dressed professionally, proactive about helping out the techs, asked questions (but not to much) and learned a lot. However when I asked for a letter, she said she wouldn't write one. Why? Well on a lot of the recommendation forms they're supposed to rate me on stuff like my critical thinking skills, how I dealt with pressure/criticism, my written expression, creativity, and research aptitude. Also the essay part asks for specific examples of the above.

She said that while I was nice and professional she didn't observe me in those situations so she wouldn't be able to write a strong letter for me; which I guess makes sense. She said that working as a PT tech is the only way to get a really good letter from a PT. How true is this? I mean, a bunch of people get letters after they shadow and it works out fine for them. I'm a little irritated right now because my other shadowing opportunities I have right now won't allow me to be one-on-one with a PT and spend so much time together (except one other possibly). I was really counting on her to be one of the PTs who wrote me a letter.

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[Carson Ranger]

She said that working as a PT tech is the only way to get a really good letter from a PT.

total falsehood.

Hopefully this person will at least verify your hours. You need at least 3 settings to make your application stand out, so keep looking.

 

[ptlover]

I shadowed at a small outpatient clinic for about 40 hours and feel like I got to know the PT who owned it pretty well. I was on time, dressed professionally, proactive about helping out the techs, asked questions (but not to much) and learned a lot. However when I asked for a letter, she said she wouldn't write one. Why? Well on a lot of the recommendation forms they're supposed to rate me on stuff like my critical thinking skills, how I dealt with pressure/criticism, my written expression, creativity, and research aptitude. Also the essay part asks for specific examples of the above.

She said that while I was nice and professional she didn't observe me in those situations so she wouldn't be able to write a strong letter for me; which I guess makes sense. She said that working as a PT tech is the only way to get a really good letter from a PT. How true is this? I mean, a bunch of people get letters after they shadow and it works out fine for them. I'm a little irritated right now because my other shadowing opportunities I have right now won't allow me to be one-on-one with a PT and spend so much time together (except one other possibly). I was really counting on her to be one of the PTs who wrote me a letter.

Being an aide is NOT the only way . Honestly, if someone can't write you a great letter thats what's best. You will find someone who can write a great one. Let the therapists know that you are shadowing what you hope to get out of your experiences . That way they know what to look for and can see your skills. We often make the mistake of just being another body in the room when observing instead of shining! So with these next few places try to stand out.

Let them know you NEED to shadow a PT MOST of the time. Some places will stick you with an aide and call it a day. So be proactive. I personally spent 50 hrs at one clinic and got to really know the staff. I went for a few weeks instead of cramming them all in. Most of the time students squeeze all their hrs in which sometimes makes it hard to judge your character except surface level. So by the end of it a few of the therapists asked me if I needed a letter. Thats because I developed a relationship with them and got to know them over time. I know sometimes its hard to do so, but if you have the time it really helps

 

[jquitt]

I shadowed at a small outpatient clinic for about 40 hours and feel like I got to know the PT who owned it pretty well. I was on time, dressed professionally, proactive about helping out the techs, asked questions (but not to much) and learned a lot. However when I asked for a letter, she said she wouldn't write one. Why? Well on a lot of the recommendation forms they're supposed to rate me on stuff like my critical thinking skills, how I dealt with pressure/criticism, my written expression, creativity, and research aptitude. Also the essay part asks for specific examples of the above.

She said that while I was nice and professional she didn't observe me in those situations so she wouldn't be able to write a strong letter for me; which I guess makes sense. She said that working as a PT tech is the only way to get a really good letter from a PT. How true is this? I mean, a bunch of people get letters after they shadow and it works out fine for them. I'm a little irritated right now because my other shadowing opportunities I have right now won't allow me to be one-on-one with a PT and spend so much time together (except one other possibly). I was really counting on her to be one of the PTs who wrote me a letter.

I'm sorry to hear that! That is a tough spot to be in. I personally don't like the fact that some schools require a letter from a PT. It can be harder than you think sometimes to secure a good letter

I have been turned down twice. One was a PT that I knew probably wouldn't be willing to write a letter based on the few hours that I volunteered. The other told me she didn't want to but I never asked her to! All I asked her for was hours verification lol! But I did get 2 letters from 2 other PTs. It really boils down to them being willing to make the decision to do it for you imo. Tech experience shouldn't be required.

 

[fireheart]

Being an aide is NOT the only way . Honestly, if someone can't write you a great letter thats what's best. You will find someone who can write a great one. Let the therapists know that you are shadowing what you hope to get out of your experiences . That way they know what to look for and can see your skills. We often make the mistake of just being another body in the room when observing instead of shining! So with these next few places try to stand out.

Let them know you NEED to shadow a PT MOST of the time. Some places will stick you with an aide and call it a day. So be proactive. I personally spent 50 hrs at one clinic and got to really know the staff. I went for a few weeks instead of cramming them all in. Most of the time students squeeze all their hrs in which sometimes makes it hard to judge your character except surface level. So by the end of it a few of the therapists asked me if I needed a letter. Thats because I developed a relationship with them and got to know them over time. I know sometimes its hard to do so, but if you have the time it really helps

How would you go about telling them in the beginning that you want a LOR at the end? Also thanks for taking the time to write your blog; I've found it to be very informative.

 

[davidtheusername]

It's actually good that she told you that she couldn't write a strong letter of recommendation. In my previous career as a teacher and school administrator I had to interview applicants sometimes and occasionally would get references that were little more than "yeah she worked here. That's all I got." Those people never got the job. I agree with the suggestion to spend a lot of time at one clinic. I did like 60 hours over 2 months at one clinic and it really helped me develop a good relationship with those therapists. It's also a better experience because you get to see patients as they progress versus just seeing one small part of their treatment.

 

[davidtheusername]

I totally agree with the frustration with requiring pt references. A lot of perfectly great candidates probably have trouble finding pt's who can say much about them.

 

[brooklynyc]

I asked two PTs to write letters and they both seemed happy to write them. I felt I was a proactive volunteer, but I don't think I exhibited any ridiculously outstanding qualities. It was a hospital setting, so I did have the luxury of asking two of the PTs who I felt I had a good rapport with, out of a staff of 23 PTs.

It sucks that she turned down your request and I can respect that she has her own benchmark of what she feels is necessary. It just sucks because I am assuming you had a good read on your relationship with her and that you genuinely felt you had developed enough of a relationship where she would feel comfortable writing you a recommendation letter.

I volunteered at a small outpatient clinic and I felt I developed a great rapport with the owner/director but my gut told me not to ask him. I think one reason is that he just seemed like a busier guy and well into his career. The two PTs I requested LOR from graduated within the last 1-3 years and seemed like they would be more open and willing to help an eager volunteer out. I got super lucky IMO.

 

[engmedpt]

I shadowed at a small outpatient clinic for about 40 hours and feel like I got to know the PT who owned it pretty well. I was on time, dressed professionally, proactive about helping out the techs, asked questions (but not to much) and learned a lot. However when I asked for a letter, she said she wouldn't write one. Why? Well on a lot of the recommendation forms they're supposed to rate me on stuff like my critical thinking skills, how I dealt with pressure/criticism, my written expression, creativity, and research aptitude. Also the essay part asks for specific examples of the above.

She said that while I was nice and professional she didn't observe me in those situations so she wouldn't be able to write a strong letter for me; which I guess makes sense. She said that working as a PT tech is the only way to get a really good letter from a PT. How true is this? I mean, a bunch of people get letters after they shadow and it works out fine for them. I'm a little irritated right now because my other shadowing opportunities I have right now won't allow me to be one-on-one with a PT and spend so much time together (except one other possibly). I was really counting on her to be one of the PTs who wrote me a letter.

Was this an older worker who has no conception of how difficult it is to get in or just someone who hates their job and doesn't want to be bothered deep down?

....That's something you could consider when looking for rec letters. If you are respectful, willing to learn, helpful without getting paid a cent, willing to help if he/she is having a rough day, or feel that the person is just having you there as a ghost spectator without you getting anything out of it, then get out and don't even waste your time.

I got hours verified by someone, but at the clinic where he/she used to work, I overheard a pt saying how he/she got to use the volunteers as free labor to get things done and get less stress during their workday. Yes, this person signed hours off when asked and so I hold no big issues with this individual as it was a mutual help. However, I never asked for a rec letter. When I sent an email thanking this person for the hours since I received acceptances.....I received no reply.....it was odd because the others replied with more congratulatory exclamation marks than you could count and implied that they were happy for me. Check before you possibly waste your time and aren't going to get anything when you really really need it.

This is so ridiculously frustrating to read.

 

[engmedpt]

It's actually good that she told you that she couldn't write a strong letter of recommendation. In my previous career as a teacher and school administrator I had to interview applicants sometimes and occasionally would get references that were little more than "yeah she worked here. That's all I got." Those people never got the job. I agree with the suggestion to spend a lot of time at one clinic. I did like 60 hours over 2 months at one clinic and it really helped me develop a good relationship with those therapists. It's also a better experience because you get to see patients as they progress versus just seeing one small part of their treatment.

You cited "worked here", 40 hours is a long time, and 2 months isn't long at all considering that some hospitals give you 3 hrs per week which would be 5 months for your hour count which would give one much more understanding in regards to the rehab process for an individual scheduled at the same time every week than arbitrarily showing up...how about someone doing free labor and learning the entire time without getting compensation. There's a big difference and people shouldn't be wasting their time with someone who is going to use them as straight up free labor and then tell them that they have to be employed as a rehab tech after having spent countless hours showing up and doing everything right to get a letter and requirement met that that person may have never had to even do if that person just had the bachelors degree. That person would be a complete and utter idiot who should be straight up ashamed of his or herself when they look in the mirror.

 

[engmedpt]

^If you can't tell.....I'm against legal manipulation in the form of volunteering.


^Edited to not sound so terrible

 

[engmedpt]

She said that while I was nice and professional she didn't observe me in those situations so she wouldn't be able to write a strong letter for me; which I guess makes sense.

That is unethical about being upfront with students from the start when there is nothing else they could do if students approach and believe they can get a letter.

 

[ptlover]

How would you go about telling them in the beginning that you want a LOR at the end? Also thanks for taking the time to write your blog; I've found it to be very informative.

I would just straight up ask. I would say "_________ I have a question. I have thoroughly enjoyed my time here and what I've learned from you. Because I've had such a positive experience here I was wondering if you could write a letter of recommendation for me? If you don't feel comfortable I understand. "

 

[TheDarkKnight14]

That's messed up. Granted, 40 hrs is a bit on the short end (the clinics/hospitals I volunteered at required 80-150 hrs :|) but that's still a dick thing to say about needing to be a PT tech, which isn't true at all.

 

[Azimuthal]

That happened to me. I received the same response the OP did at about 40 hours of observation. I was engaged (compared to other volunteers), asked plenty of questions, kept myself busy. But the criteria for LOR was unrealistic. Luckily, I had other PT's more than willing to write a strong LOR for me. The PT who initially denied my request asked to write one for me at approximately 200 hours in, but I had already submitted my application. I got into PT school without working as an Aide or as a Tech. That fact still surprises my peers and volunteers today. I don't know why.

 

[davidtheusername]

You cited "worked here", 40 hours is a long time, and 2 months isn't long at all considering that some hospitals give you 3 hrs per week which would be 5 months for your hour count which would give one much more understanding in regards to the rehab process for an individual scheduled at the same time every week than arbitrarily showing up...how about someone doing free labor and learning the entire time without getting compensation. There's a big difference and people shouldn't be wasting their time with someone who is going to use them as straight up free labor and then tell them that they have to be employed as a rehab tech after having spent countless hours showing up and doing everything right to get a letter and requirement met that that person may have never had to even do if that person just had the bachelors degree. That person would be a complete and utter idiot who should be straight up ashamed of his or herself when they look in the mirror.

I'm not quite sure what that's responding to from my post? The worked here line was talking about teachers applying for positions at my school without quality references. I was just meaning that references from people who can't say anything much about you aren't useful. I wasn't advocating being used as an indentured servant?

 

[ashnicolee43]

I shadowed at a outpatient clinic connected to a hospital. We were only allowed 40 hours/PT. Therefore, I did 40 hours with an outpatient PT and 40 hours with an inpatient PT at the hospital over about the span 2 months. The reason they only allowed 40 hours/PT was because they had a situation where a student shadowed a PT for too many hours which did not allow for other students to receive the opportunity to shadow.

During my shadowing experience I asked questions and got to know the PT I was shadowing but I still was quiet a lot and just observed. When I asked for letters, they both were happy to write them for me.

I would say it's good that she gave you a heads up that she would not be able to write a good letter, but at the same time she should not tell you that you have to work to get a good letter. One of the physical therapists I shadowed came up to me and told me that she wrote me a really great letter. I don't know how the PT you shadowed got her letters for school, but every PT I shadowed was very sympathetic to the fact that getting letters requires work and they remembered how hard they worked to receive their own letters.

 

[engmedpt]

I'm not quite sure what that's responding to from my post? The worked here line was talking about teachers applying for positions at my school without quality references. I was just meaning that references from people who can't say anything much about you aren't useful. I wasn't advocating being used as an indentured servant?

I know. That tone came across harsh. Not meant to attack you. I was trying to get the point across to the OP how ridiculous the situation is. There's a difference between working and getting a letter that a colleague may write which may not come out great and volunteering in a situation where you might not even get anything out of it. the opportunity cost is not going to a pt that will actually help you

being wary of those who won't help is important as shown in this situation.

 

[davidtheusername]

Yeah. That's why I wish schools just wanted academic references. At least that way we all have fairly equal access to them since we all had to have prereqs recently.

 

[Macklelaur]

Getting reference letters are the worst. Point blank. I've had one PT write me an excellent letter of recommendation and I've had another PT who wrote me a horrible recommendation letter at the same clinic. I spent the same amount of time and used the same amount of enthusiasm and work ethic with both PTs, but still different letters were written on my behalf. The truth is that some people just aren't interested in being helpful. Even if you ask them to write you a strong letter of recommendation, some people will write you a letter knowing they have no intentions of assisting you in your pursuit for excellence. Believe me, it is beyond frustrating, but it is something we all will experience at least once with the hopes that it does not deter us from our ultimate goal. Again, I know it is very frustrating, but at least she told you that she couldn't write you a strong letter. You'll probably get a better letter from someone else.

 

[brooklynyc]

How do you know they wrote you a good or bad one? I waived the right to read all of my LOR.

 

[Macklelaur]

How do you know they wrote you a good or bad one? I waived the right to read all of my LOR.

If this is in regards to me, the PT I asked to write me the recommendation letter had to use the paper copy and handed it to me signed on the back. She handed the letter to me a month after the due date, so 2 months after I originally requested for it. To me, that seemed a little odd, so I decided not to submit it. I was accepted into school using 2 other recommendation letters from the same clinic and last night I stumbled upon the letter she wrote. Out of curiosity, I mean, I didn't need it anymore, so I read it and she didn't even write a full-sentence on my behalf nor did she really have any good things to say. I'm glad God told me to reconsider sending it, lol

 

[Azimuthal]

How would you go about telling them in the beginning that you want a LOR at the end? Also thanks for taking the time to write your blog; I've found it to be very informative.

In an organized setting, the volunteer coordinator should have asked you what your end goals are for volunteering. If you mention an LOR, they will tell you a "minimum" hours requirement and also give you a disclaimer about how some PT's will write you a letter and some will not.

In a small clinic setting, you should have stated that one of your goals is to obtain an LOR. If you're shadowing a more understanding PT, s/he would engage you more to ascertain the LOR qualities s/he is assessing. If not, and if prior reminders result in a lack of progress, get your hours and look somewhere else.

Let's face it, not all PT's have the understanding or the ability to add another task, such as volunteer assessment, to their daily routine. It's not to say that they're bad PT's, it's that they do not have those qualities.

 

[DesertPT]

I got into PT school without working as an Aide or as a Tech. That fact still surprises my peers and volunteers today. I don't know why.

I don't either. Thousands of people get into PT school every year without working as a tech.

 

[DesertPT]

Let's face it, not all PT's have the understanding or the ability to add another task, such as volunteer assessment, to their daily routine. It's not to say that they're bad PT's, it's that they do not have those qualities.

Agree completely. I did not do a good job realizing this when I was shadowing and ended up being totally hosed by a PT who said she would write a letter for me but then fell off the face of the earth, making me have to scramble last minute. If you any hint that a PT doesn't want to do it for you, start looking elsewhere.

The LORs is no doubt one of the more painful parts of the application process, OP. We feel your pain, it's a hoop we've all had to awkwardly jump through.