Expectations of Medical School vs Reality?

[nugang]

What did you expect going into medical school, the good and the bad. And how have those expectations panned out? I'm just curious because i read here on SDN all the time that most Pre-meds are too idealistic in terms of what they expect out of the Medical school experience and what it is actually like in terms of patient care, the amount of work/stress, the 'idealism' of making a positive difference, etc.

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[mimelim]

I started to write a response and then remembered that I had no idea what medical school was like or even really thought about it. My decision to apply to medical school was probably best described as a whim. So... in conclusion... I guess I'm useless for this.

 

[darkjedi]

Med school itself is pretty much what I expected it would be like as far as difficulty and work, in that it's hard but manageable.

I think my biggest discrepancy between expectations and real life was actually realizing how even more broken the health care system was than I realized. The unfortunate thing is that sometimes it feels like the longer you are in the system, the more helpless you feel about your ability to change it.

 

[mimelim]

But I bet you never disclosed this in interviews right? lol

I remember telling schools that I only recently decided to apply to medical school. When asked what I would do if I didn't go to medical school, I told them I'd apply to law school. TBH, I was pretty open about it. If I knew about SDN or about the process, I probably wouldn't have been. I probably would have worried about it more. In the end, nobody really seemed to care and backed it up by offering acceptances.

 

[Planes2Doc]

No premeds know the realities of medical school

+100000000000000000000000

Pre-meds think medical school will be a fun exciting time where they get to learn about really interesting things.

The reality is, yes, some of the stuff you learn is interesting. But a majority of the stuff is minutiae that is a huge pain in the ass to learn, and not clinically relevant in the least bit. You also need to learn a ridiculous amount of information in small periods of time. It seems like the school is purposely beating the crap out of you just for the hell of it.

Medical school isn't fun. It's nothing like pre-meds on SDN imagine it to be. It will destroy you on the inside. You will never be the same person you once were.

Everyone I talked to is shocked with how much I hate medical school. But that's just it... I hate medical school. Not the idea of being a physician. The pre-med process, medical school, and residency are a means to an end. It's far better for me to torture myself now, than to work some pointless office job doing menial crap and living a life of mediocrity for the rest of my life. Now that is far worse than the hell that medical school will put you through, and the only reason why I see the light at the end of the tunnel.

tl;dr - Medical school SUCKS. And this is a huge understatement.

 

[wwulf2k13]

Med school itself is pretty much what I expected it would be like as far as difficulty and work, in that it's hard but manageable.

I think my biggest discrepancy between expectations and real life was actually realizing how even more broken the health care system was than I realized. The unfortunate thing is that sometimes it feels like the longer you are in the system, the more helpless you feel about your ability to change it.

Can you give those of us not yet involved some examples?

 

[Being]

...It will destroy you on the inside. You will never be the same person you once were.

Everyone I talked to is shocked with how much I hate medical school. But that's just it... I hate medical school.

...

tl;dr - Medical school SUCKS. And this is a huge understatement.

It's probably impossible to avoid getting burned out and beat up to some extent during the process, but I know that not everyone feels as negative about med school as you seem to. Why do you think that might be?

 

[Planes2Doc]

It's probably impossible to avoid getting burned out and beat up to some extent during the process, but I know that not everyone feels as negative about med school as you seem to. Why do you think that might be?

And by that, do you mean people you know in real life, or SDN? SDN is usually made up of people who were always at the top of their game, and seem to enjoy what they do, whether as pre-meds or medical students. It's not a realistic cross-section of the general population. While I have some fellow classmates that absolutely love medical school, a majority of people in my class are pretty miserable most of the time. You probably won't hear too many people complaining on SDN. If you want to hear a good perspective on this, you should hear what @Ismet has to say about the topic.

 

[AndyQC]

The pre-clinical years of medical school are not fun, but I don't think that it is quite the nightmarish, soul-crushing experience that @Planes2Doc describes.

Many of my friends recently graduated from medical school. One seems more jaded and cynical than he used to be, but most are no different than they were when they started. They were exhausted during first year and when studying for Step 1, and much of third year was a living hell, but they emerged more or less unscathed. My wife is nearing the end of residency and is essentially the same person that she was when she was a naive pre-med. My cousin is just wrapping up his last year of medical school and is doing just fine (although he's already a bit stressed about the match).

At the end of the day, there may be some shell shock when you first get started, but the vast majority of people I know have risen to the occasion.

 

[Being]

And by that, do you mean people you know in real life, or SDN? SDN is usually made up of people who were always at the top of their game, and seem to enjoy what they do, whether as pre-meds or medical students. It's not a realistic cross-section of the general population. While I have some fellow classmates that absolutely love medical school, a majority of people in my class are pretty miserable most of the time. You probably won't hear too many people complaining on SDN. If you want to hear a good perspective on this, you should hear what @Ismet has to say about the topic.

I know SDN posters are a self-selecting group, so I'm glad we have people like you here temper that a bit.

I'm friends with an anesthesia resident and EM resident who I've known since middle school (I'm a non-trad and a bit late to the party). They were both kind of burnt out during medical school but didn't seem quite as negative as you (though maybe they were just good at hiding it). They both seem to be loving their residencies now and are positive about the process overall.

 

[NickNaylor]

In GIF format:

Before starting medical school:

The first few weeks:

Second year:

...which slowly becomes:

Third year:

Fourth year:

Whatever your expectations of med school, they will almost certainly not match with reality. Hopefully that'll be in a good way.

 

[NickNaylor]

And for more, I would suggest checking out this tumblr: http://whatshouldwecallmedschool.tumblr.com

 

[mimelim]

In contrast...

I enjoyed medical school immensely. I learned a lot of interesting stuff, I feel like I got something out of my clinical years. Pre-clinical retrospectively was a little silly, but once you realize this and titrate how much you study, it is a joke to get through. I definitely know people like @Planes2Doc well maybe not as extreme, but certainly on the same vein. That group highly correlates with people that I think (and a lot of them agree) shouldn't have gone to medical school in the first place (went because of parental pressure, went into for financial or other reasons). I don't think you will find many if any people that enjoyed their medical school experience as much as I did, but the vast majority of my classmates were pretty satisfied with their education and their time in school.

 

[Planes2Doc]

In contrast...

I enjoyed medical school immensely. I learned a lot of interesting stuff, I feel like I got something out of my clinical years. Pre-clinical retrospectively was a little silly, but once you realize this and titrate how much you study, it is a joke to get through. I definitely know people like @Planes2Doc well maybe not as extreme, but certainly on the same vein. That group highly correlates with people that I think (and a lot of them agree) shouldn't have gone to medical school in the first place (went because of parental pressure, went into for financial or other reasons). I don't think you will find many if any people that enjoyed their medical school experience as much as I did, but the vast majority of my classmates were pretty satisfied with their education and their time in school.

I went to medical school for the right reasons. I've wanted to be a physician since I was a kid, and was stuck doing meaningless office jobs before it. I hate medical school simply because of the difficulty of it. I no longer have time to spend with family and friends like I used to. I did very well in undergrad and had all the time in the world to balance things in my life. Not so much here... I would kill to take a weekend off without having to worry about the next few upcoming exams in the back of my head.

I personally know people who have failed out and dropped out. I also know people who now have to take anti-depressants or benzos and they never had to before. Medical school takes a toll on some people, in fact, a lot. There are some disturbing articles out there about suicidal ideation of medical students. It's not fun to have your ass kicked all the time when you were previously at the top of the class. The immense workload is nothing to laugh at either.

I absolutely dread the immense amount of material, but like I said, it's a means to an end. Once I'm done with pre-clinicals this year, it will be a load off my back until the next load comes on.

There are lots of different people like you said. There are the people who love it, though they are the minority. I wanted to punch those people who said how much they loved anatomy in the face. I think that a lot of people feel the way I do, though I'm more vocal. I have always been very open about my feelings, and I don't think that's a bad thing. I want people to see that it won't be all fun and games, because not everyone out there is going to breeze through it like you and a few others have. If you look in thr allopathic forum, you'll see there's a thread where a lot of people regret their decision to go to medical school. After working your ass off to get here, so many people regret thr decision to ever do it. I don't regret it, because the things I was doing before, and would continue to do had I not gone to medical school are far worse and scarier than the hell of medical school.

 

[Planes2Doc]

It doesn't sound like the depressed and burned out students are having a jolly ol' meaningful time: http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=742530

 

[allantois]

While I can't speak for everyone and certainly cannot speak of my experiences in med school. I do not have any expectations from it. There are no TV shows or anything in mass media to show the public what med school is like. I imagine that it will be a lot of hard work like never before and I just hope that I will have some good classmates.

 

[mimelim]

It doesn't sound like the depressed and burned out students are having a jolly ol' meaningful time: http://annals.org/article.aspx?articleid=742530

How did they define "burn out"?

Regardless, I don't know what this article has to do with people not enjoying medical school. Yes, there are many that don't have a good time. There are many that feel incredibly stressed by school. There are many that are pushed into depression and even suicidal ideation. None of that is their fault. Most, if not all medical schools have terrible pre-clinical setups. The focus is on teaching how things have always been taught rather than keeping up with modern education models. Clinicals are rough for most people that have never actually had to function in a work environment or communicate with superiors, colleagues or others.

 

[mimelim]

I went to medical school for the right reasons. I've wanted to be a physician since I was a kid, and was stuck doing meaningless office jobs before it. I hate medical school simply because of the difficulty of it. I no longer have time to spend with family and friends like I used to. I did very well in undergrad and had all the time in the world to balance things in my life. Not so much here... I would kill to take a weekend off without having to worry about the next few upcoming exams in the back of my head.

I personally know people who have failed out and dropped out. I also know people who now have to take anti-depressants or benzos and they never had to before. Medical school takes a toll on some people, in fact, a lot. There are some disturbing articles out there about suicidal ideation of medical students. It's not fun to have your ass kicked all the time when you were previously at the top of the class. The immense workload is nothing to laugh at either.

I absolutely dread the immense amount of material, but like I said, it's a means to an end. Once I'm done with pre-clinicals this year, it will be a load off my back until the next load comes on.

There are lots of different people like you said. There are the people who love it, though they are the minority. I wanted to punch those people who said how much they loved anatomy in the face. I think that a lot of people feel the way I do, though I'm more vocal. I have always been very open about my feelings, and I don't think that's a bad thing. I want people to see that it won't be all fun and games, because not everyone out there is going to breeze through it like you and a few others have. If you look in thr allopathic forum, you'll see there's a thread where a lot of people regret their decision to go to medical school. After working your ass off to get here, so many people regret thr decision to ever do it. I don't regret it, because the things I was doing before, and would continue to do had I not gone to medical school are far worse and scarier than the hell of medical school.

I guess my solution was, I just didn't give a **** about the pre-clinicals. If I didn't think it was worth studying or wasting time on, I'd learn it at 70%-80% and move on with my life. Probably the reason I had a 3.4 coming out of undergrad....

To be honest, I think you are the type who will enjoy clinicals a lot more. Most of the angst in the clinical years is about interpersonal stuff with other members of the healthcare team. Your background will help a lot, putting that all into the context of any job. Once you see through the bull**** that people throw at you, you can focus on the fun stuff, you know, like learning to practice medicine.

 

[Planes2Doc]

How did they define "burn out"?

Regardless, I don't know what this article has to do with people not enjoying medical school. Yes, there are many that don't have a good time. There are many that feel incredibly stressed by school. There are many that are pushed into depression and even suicidal ideation. None of that is their fault. Most, if not all medical schools have terrible pre-clinical setups. The focus is on teaching how things have always been taught rather than keeping up with modern education models. Clinicals are rough for most people that have never actually had to function in a work environment or communicate with superiors, colleagues or others.

Sorry, I didn't have access to the actual article. I read other things about depression and suicide, but couldn't find them just now.

I agree with you. A lot of my classes right now have material being taught at a PhD perspective which is ultimately clinically irrelevant. If things were changed around, I think they could be better. I'm interested to see how clinicals go, everyone a year ahead of me so far seems to like them and tell me that it's far better than the pre-clinical years.

 

[orangeman25]

This is so depressing

 

[mimelim]

Sorry, I didn't have access to the actual article. I read other things about depression and suicide, but couldn't find them just now.

I agree with you. A lot of my classes right now have material being taught at a PhD perspective which is ultimately clinically irrelevant. If things were changed around, I think they could be better. I'm interested to see how clinicals go, everyone a year ahead of me so far seems to like them and tell me that it's far better than the pre-clinical years.

Ya, I couldn't find it in the abstract or a simple google search. I know what you are talking about though. I was on the committee that went through our own student depression statuses. (we did a pretty big survey/study similar to what they did, but just internally). The faculty conclusion was to do "resiliency training" for all incoming classes. ie the same stuff that they put soldiers through to help them get through basic training and combat. The students told them, "thats great, but why not fix the curriculum while you are at it." It really is scary stuff.

 

[ButImLETired]

The vast majority of people are somewhere in the middle, I think. I was closer to Planes2Doc in my experience, though I will say things got better third year.
In general, I despised first year, felt marginally less miserable second year (because at least I thought path was reasonably cool), fell into a deep pit of despair studying for step 1, realized I at least still liked medicine in general as a third year, and was bored and depressed as a fourth year. It didn't help that I didn't really feel like I fit in with most of my classmates and generally felt like a bit of an outsider. Med school is a lot like high school. Socially, there are cliques and when you artificially create cliques out of a bunch of nerds (some of whom think they're cooler than the others, but are still nerds) weird dynamics emerge. The constant competition, whether you want it to or not, also gets in the way of having genuine friendships. At least for me this was one of the toughest aspects of it. I made a couple of close friends, but was annoyed at having to constantly be near a whole bunch of other people I couldn't stand.
I also felt like at my school at least there was this big culture of "never let them see you sweat". I don't think that was unique to my school by any means, and it's probably at least partially why there are so many depressed people in medicine- it's less about the workload, and more about the fact that if you're the one person who complains, you're seen as weak, a whiner, and obviously not as smart as the rest. I'm a complainer, undoubtedly, mostly because I find that it helps me deal with whatever is going on my head to express it and discuss it with other people who feel the same way I do. However, in med school I found myself in this culture of "everything is great! Everyone is happy! We're all so well balanced!". To this day I don't know if i just struggled more than my classmates or if they were just better at drinking the kool-aid, but i resented them in huge part because i felt like i was being judged for being the only one who wasn't super happy and whose life wasn't super balanced. Instead of the typical pre-med "well I studied ALL NIGHT and didnt sleep for 24 hours straight!" "oh yeah? Well I studied 36 hours and havent slept in days!!" fight, there was the "i studied, ran a marathon this weekend and then i went to the beach!" "oh yeah? Well i studied, did a triathlon, ate an all raw paleo diet, volunteered at the animal shelter and went shopping!" fight. Meanwhile I'd be sitting there being like...yeah I just studied, ordered domino's, and fell asleep on a book, am I just stupid?
Interestingly, third year was a little better cause I got to befriend the residents, who all admitted to not having a life and who were all pretty cranky. Now I can tell you that residency, from that perspective at least, is MUCH better and I'm WAY happier. We're all exhausted. We're all on the same boat. Even the differences between specialties aren't as bad (though the surgeons still argue they work harder than everyone else- and to be fair their hours really do suck). I feel way more comfortable with life now, even though I'm much busier and work much longer hours than I did in med school.

 

[mimelim]

The vast majority of people are somewhere in the middle, I think. I was closer to Planes2Doc in my experience, though I will say things got better third year.
In general, I despised first year, felt marginally less miserable second year (because at least I thought path was reasonably cool), fell into a deep pit of despair studying for step 1, realized I at least still liked medicine in general as a third year, and was bored and depressed as a fourth year. It didn't help that I didn't really feel like I fit in with most of my classmates and generally felt like a bit of an outsider. Med school is a lot like high school. Socially, there are cliques and when you artificially create cliques out of a bunch of nerds (some of whom think they're cooler than the others, but are still nerds) weird dynamics emerge. The constant competition, whether you want it to or not, also gets in the way of having genuine friendships. At least for me this was one of the toughest aspects of it. I made a couple of close friends, but was annoyed at having to constantly be near a whole bunch of other people I couldn't stand.
I also felt like at my school at least there was this big culture of "never let them see you sweat". I don't think that was unique to my school by any means, and it's probably at least partially why there are so many depressed people in medicine- it's less about the workload, and more about the fact that if you're the one person who complains, you're seen as weak, a whiner, and obviously not as smart as the rest. I'm a complainer, undoubtedly, mostly because I find that it helps me deal with whatever is going on my head to express it and discuss it with other people who feel the same way I do. However, in med school I found myself in this culture of "everything is great! Everyone is happy! We're all so well balanced!". To this day I don't know if i just struggled more than my classmates or if they were just better at drinking the kool-aid, but i resented them in huge part because i felt like i was being judged for being the only one who wasn't super happy and whose life wasn't super balanced. Instead of the typical pre-med "well I studied ALL NIGHT and didnt sleep for 24 hours straight!" "oh yeah? Well I studied 36 hours and havent slept in days!!" fight, there was the "i studied, ran a marathon this weekend and then i went to the beach!" "oh yeah? Well i studied, did a triathlon, ate an all raw paleo diet, volunteered at the animal shelter and went shopping!" fight. Meanwhile I'd be sitting there being like...yeah I just studied, ordered domino's, and fell asleep on a book, am I just stupid?
Interestingly, third year was a little better cause I got to befriend the residents, who all admitted to not having a life and who were all pretty cranky. Now I can tell you that residency, from that perspective at least, is MUCH better and I'm WAY happier. We're all exhausted. We're all on the same boat. Even the differences between specialties aren't as bad (though the surgeons still argue they work harder than everyone else- and to be fair their hours really do suck). I feel way more comfortable with life now, even though I'm much busier and work much longer hours than I did in med school.

Those guys are huge tools. (described in red)

 

[kavorca]

I had a lot more free time than I expected during the first two years. That was the biggest surprise for me.

 

[Planes2Doc]

The vast majority of people are somewhere in the middle, I think. I was closer to Planes2Doc in my experience, though I will say things got better third year.
In general, I despised first year, felt marginally less miserable second year (because at least I thought path was reasonably cool), fell into a deep pit of despair studying for step 1, realized I at least still liked medicine in general as a third year, and was bored and depressed as a fourth year. It didn't help that I didn't really feel like I fit in with most of my classmates and generally felt like a bit of an outsider. Med school is a lot like high school. Socially, there are cliques and when you artificially create cliques out of a bunch of nerds (some of whom think they're cooler than the others, but are still nerds) weird dynamics emerge. The constant competition, whether you want it to or not, also gets in the way of having genuine friendships. At least for me this was one of the toughest aspects of it. I made a couple of close friends, but was annoyed at having to constantly be near a whole bunch of other people I couldn't stand.
I also felt like at my school at least there was this big culture of "never let them see you sweat". I don't think that was unique to my school by any means, and it's probably at least partially why there are so many depressed people in medicine- it's less about the workload, and more about the fact that if you're the one person who complains, you're seen as weak, a whiner, and obviously not as smart as the rest. I'm a complainer, undoubtedly, mostly because I find that it helps me deal with whatever is going on my head to express it and discuss it with other people who feel the same way I do. However, in med school I found myself in this culture of "everything is great! Everyone is happy! We're all so well balanced!". To this day I don't know if i just struggled more than my classmates or if they were just better at drinking the kool-aid, but i resented them in huge part because i felt like i was being judged for being the only one who wasn't super happy and whose life wasn't super balanced. Instead of the typical pre-med "well I studied ALL NIGHT and didnt sleep for 24 hours straight!" "oh yeah? Well I studied 36 hours and havent slept in days!!" fight, there was the "i studied, ran a marathon this weekend and then i went to the beach!" "oh yeah? Well i studied, did a triathlon, ate an all raw paleo diet, volunteered at the animal shelter and went shopping!" fight. Meanwhile I'd be sitting there being like...yeah I just studied, ordered domino's, and fell asleep on a book, am I just stupid?
Interestingly, third year was a little better cause I got to befriend the residents, who all admitted to not having a life and who were all pretty cranky. Now I can tell you that residency, from that perspective at least, is MUCH better and I'm WAY happier. We're all exhausted. We're all on the same boat. Even the differences between specialties aren't as bad (though the surgeons still argue they work harder than everyone else- and to be fair their hours really do suck). I feel way more comfortable with life now, even though I'm much busier and work much longer hours than I did in med school.

Oh my... Minus everything about residency (since I'm not there yet), it's as if you took the words straight out of my mouth.

I'm so glad to know I'm not the only one, because medical school makes you feel that you are.

 

[Ismet]

It's probably impossible to avoid getting burned out and beat up to some extent during the process, but I know that not everyone feels as negative about med school as you seem to. Why do you think that might be?

I feel like a big thing is that people handle stress differently. You also usually never know what's going on in someone's head or when they're alone unless you're really close with them. Many people project an air of being confident and on top of their game at all times, but inside they're suffering from anxiety and self-doubt. Or the people who punish themselves for getting a B instead of an A, or HP instead of H. Internally they may be quite unhappy, but they appear less negative externally. I agree with @Planes2Doc that there are definitely people who are completely miserable, but I think the majority of people just tolerate it and get through it.

It also has to do with your perspective. If you're a constant "glass half empty" person, everything is going to be a problem. There are definitely people who complain about EVERYTHING, and that can influence your own mentality if you let it. I've certainly done my fair share of complaining, as it's not all fun and games every day, but in general I try not to let that influence my perspective. Of course there were some very sucky times in MS1-MS2. And I know the worst of MS3 is yet to come. But overall big picture, it hasn't been completely miserable.

I went to medical school for the right reasons. I've wanted to be a physician since I was a kid, and was stuck doing meaningless office jobs before it. I hate medical school simply because of the difficulty of it. I no longer have time to spend with family and friends like I used to. I did very well in undergrad and had all the time in the world to balance things in my life. Not so much here... I would kill to take a weekend off without having to worry about the next few upcoming exams in the back of my head.

I personally know people who have failed out and dropped out. I also know people who now have to take anti-depressants or benzos and they never had to before. Medical school takes a toll on some people, in fact, a lot. There are some disturbing articles out there about suicidal ideation of medical students. It's not fun to have your ass kicked all the time when you were previously at the top of the class. The immense workload is nothing to laugh at either.

I absolutely dread the immense amount of material, but like I said, it's a means to an end. Once I'm done with pre-clinicals this year, it will be a load off my back until the next load comes on.

Didn't realize you were an MS2, I thought you were an MS3!! Yeah, pre-clinical years suck. A lot. And it all culminates in the absolute misery of Step 1. I agree with @mimelim that you'll probably be one of the ones who really enjoys the clinical years. It's a different kind of stress level and different kind of difficulty, but I feel like I'm thriving in clerkships. We still have exams, but the majority of our grade is dependent on evaluations (which can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on your attendings). You still get your butt kicked, I've already had an attending make me cry (once I got to my car at the end of the day), but it's overall much more enjoyable. Just keep trucking through this year, and there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

Med school does hit people pretty hard, some more than others. I believe about 1/3 of our student body goes to see the (free and confidential) psychologist at some point. That's not to say that 1/3 are suffering from depression or pathologic anxiety, but everyone gets overwhelmed at times and it's good to have someone to talk to, especially someone who has been doing the job for years and has seen many classes go through the same exact things. But yes, the statistics about depression and SI among medical students are very real and apparent.

 

[fellowstudent92]

I feel like a big thing is that people handle stress differently. You also usually never know what's going on in someone's head or when they're alone unless you're really close with them. Many people project an air of being confident and on top of their game at all times, but inside they're suffering from anxiety and self-doubt. Or the people who punish themselves for getting a B instead of an A, or HP instead of H. Internally they may be quite unhappy, but they appear less negative externally. I agree with @Planes2Doc that there are definitely people who are completely miserable, but I think the majority of people just tolerate it and get through it.

It also has to do with your perspective. If you're a constant "glass half empty" person, everything is going to be a problem. There are definitely people who complain about EVERYTHING, and that can influence your own mentality if you let it. I've certainly done my fair share of complaining, as it's not all fun and games every day, but in general I try not to let that influence my perspective. Of course there were some very sucky times in MS1-MS2. And I know the worst of MS3 is yet to come. But overall big picture, it hasn't been completely miserable.




Didn't realize you were an MS2, I thought you were an MS3!! Yeah, pre-clinical years suck. A lot. And it all culminates in the absolute misery of Step 1. I agree with @mimelim that you'll probably be one of the ones who really enjoys the clinical years. It's a different kind of stress level and different kind of difficulty, but I feel like I'm thriving in clerkships. We still have exams, but the majority of our grade is dependent on evaluations (which can be a good thing or a bad thing, depending on your attendings). You still get your butt kicked, I've already had an attending make me cry (once I got to my car at the end of the day), but it's overall much more enjoyable. Just keep trucking through this year, and there's a light at the end of the tunnel.

Med school does hit people pretty hard, some more than others. I believe about 1/3 of our student body goes to see the (free and confidential) psychologist at some point. That's not to say that 1/3 are suffering from depression or pathologic anxiety, but everyone gets overwhelmed at times and it's good to have someone to talk to, especially someone who has been doing the job for years and has seen many classes go through the same exact things. But yes, the statistics about depression and SI among medical students are very real and apparent.

lol wut. Even though I've temporarily decided against medicine, it is still a possibility for me in the future. That just diminished it.

 

[ButImLETired]

I really don't know why it has to be like this. Maybe if med schools focused less on one universal version of "wellness" and more on getting people to share their true feelings, the situation would be less frustrating for those who feel like they're always in the minority, I don't know.

I remember there was this one class at my med school that we had heard a lot about because it was supposed to be great. The professor was supposed to be this huge expert in the field and she was supposed to be this fantastic teacher, and everyone always talked about how great and easy it was to learn because of how great the lectures were. The professor constantly talked about how you didn't have to do much studying at home because the lectures were specially designed to stick, blah blah blah. When I got there, I found the material incredibly complicated and difficult to understand, and I found that it required a huge amount of studying at home. I was frustrated by the fact that the upperclassmen had given us this really biased view of the subject, and a huge proportion of the class struggled with the first exam because none of us expected to have to study that hard. By the end of the block, we'd all gotten the hang of it, and it was time for us to tell the class below us about it and give them advice. I requested to be in the panel because I felt like I had figured out pretty good ways of dealing with the material, and I didn't want to sugarcoat just how much studying was required to do well. The panels were over 2 different days. I was on the first one, and I explained that for us mere mortals, going to lecture was not in fact enough, the material was extremely complicated, and frankly I'd studied more during that block than the block before. I was then told that I would not be a part of the panel the second day because I'd been "too negative" and freaked out the underclassmen. For that same reason I was not allowed to give advice regarding step 1 (which I still argue was the worst 5 weeks of my life, bar none) and was not allowed to be a peer advisor to the underclassmen when I was a fourth year. Mind you, people still came to me for advice because I'd give them practical solutions instead of just "you're gonna do great! Just hang in there and don't forget to exercise and eat well to keep yourself sharp and happy!", but I was no longer allowed to do so in an official setting.

 

[fellowstudent92]

I really don't know why it has to be like this. Maybe if med schools focused less on one universal version of "wellness" and more on getting people to share their true feelings, the situation would be less frustrating for those who feel like they're always in the minority, I don't know.

I remember there was this one class at my med school that we had heard a lot about because it was supposed to be great. The professor was supposed to be this huge expert in the field and she was supposed to be this fantastic teacher, and everyone always talked about how great and easy it was to learn because of how great the lectures were. The professor constantly talked about how you didn't have to do much studying at home because the lectures were specially designed to stick, blah blah blah. When I got there, I found the material incredibly complicated and difficult to understand, and I found that it required a huge amount of studying at home. I was frustrated by the fact that the upperclassmen had given us this really biased view of the subject, and a huge proportion of the class struggled with the first exam because none of us expected to have to study that hard. By the end of the block, we'd all gotten the hang of it, and it was time for us to tell the class below us about it and give them advice. I requested to be in the panel because I felt like I had figured out pretty good ways of dealing with the material, and I didn't want to sugarcoat just how much studying was required to do well. The panels were over 2 different days. I was on the first one, and I explained that for us mere mortals, going to lecture was not in fact enough, the material was extremely complicated, and frankly I'd studied more during that block than the block before. I was then told that I would not be a part of the panel the second day because I'd been "too negative" and freaked out the underclassmen. For that same reason I was not allowed to give advice regarding step 1 (which I still argue was the worst 5 weeks of my life, bar none) and was not allowed to be a peer advisor to the underclassmen when I was a fourth year. Mind you, people still came to me for advice because I'd give them practical solutions instead of just "you're gonna do great! Just hang in there and don't forget to exercise and eat well to keep yourself sharp and happy!", but I was no longer allowed to do so in an official setting.

JESUS TAKE THE WHEEL

 

[Ismet]

I really don't know why it has to be like this. Maybe if med schools focused less on one universal version of "wellness" and more on getting people to share their true feelings, the situation would be less frustrating for those who feel like they're always in the minority, I don't know.

I remember there was this one class at my med school that we had heard a lot about because it was supposed to be great. The professor was supposed to be this huge expert in the field and she was supposed to be this fantastic teacher, and everyone always talked about how great and easy it was to learn because of how great the lectures were. The professor constantly talked about how you didn't have to do much studying at home because the lectures were specially designed to stick, blah blah blah. When I got there, I found the material incredibly complicated and difficult to understand, and I found that it required a huge amount of studying at home. I was frustrated by the fact that the upperclassmen had given us this really biased view of the subject, and a huge proportion of the class struggled with the first exam because none of us expected to have to study that hard. By the end of the block, we'd all gotten the hang of it, and it was time for us to tell the class below us about it and give them advice. I requested to be in the panel because I felt like I had figured out pretty good ways of dealing with the material, and I didn't want to sugarcoat just how much studying was required to do well. The panels were over 2 different days. I was on the first one, and I explained that for us mere mortals, going to lecture was not in fact enough, the material was extremely complicated, and frankly I'd studied more during that block than the block before. I was then told that I would not be a part of the panel the second day because I'd been "too negative" and freaked out the underclassmen. For that same reason I was not allowed to give advice regarding step 1 (which I still argue was the worst 5 weeks of my life, bar none) and was not allowed to be a peer advisor to the underclassmen when I was a fourth year. Mind you, people still came to me for advice because I'd give them practical solutions instead of just "you're gonna do great! Just hang in there and don't forget to exercise and eat well to keep yourself sharp and happy!", but I was no longer allowed to do so in an official setting.

You and I are practically the same person. Except I haven't been on panels so I haven't been banned from them, but I try to give practical and honest advice to underclassmen (and on SDN). I experienced the same thing of upperclassmen sugarcoating things, and I can partially see where they come from, because looking back, it doesn't seem as bad as it did when I was physically in it (mainly because Step 1 was the worst couple months of my life and everything else paled in comparison).

Glad to hear that you're enjoying residency. Gives me even more hope for going forward.

 

[Ismet]

lol wut. Even though I've temporarily decided against medicine, it is still a possibility for me in the future. That just diminished it.

FWIW, I don't regret going to medical school. But I completely agree with the oft-given advice of "if you can imagine doing anything else for a living, go do that," because the process is rough on people who don't have a passion for what's waiting after medical school.

 

[fellowstudent92]

FWIW, I don't regret going to medical school. But I completely agree with the oft-given advice of "if you can imagine doing anything else for a living, go do that," because the process is rough on people who don't have a passion for what's waiting after medical school.

Yes but what frustrates me is that people correlate "passion" to withstanding depression, crying, and other ailments associated with the negativities of med school. Can passion really come that strongly in someone? Yes I understand you want to help people really badly. But holy **** this is bordering masochism. What kind of smart/ambitious/hardworking undergrad (such as myself and plenty others) would volunteer themselves to go through this? Unless of course, they really didn't know. Maybe they should have huge disclaimer warning signs on the AMCAS application indicating you're probably going to end up crying, hating yourself, and suffering from depression if you go through this route. Then MAYBE we would see numbers applying to med school drop significantly.
Maybe I really just don't understand it. Perhaps I need more time. The way I've understood the word is that it is largely antiquated amongst the older folks; in fact, it's really only thrown around by people of our ages (21ish) because that's what keeps them going. The older folks laugh at the younger ones who believe in passion.

 

[Ismet]

Yes but what frustrates me is that people correlate "passion" to withstanding depression, crying, and other ailments associated with the negativities of med school. Can passion really come that strongly in someone? Yes I understand you want to help people really badly. But holy **** this is bordering masochism. Maybe I really just don't understand it. Perhaps I need more time. The way I've understood the word is that it is largely antiquated amongst the older folks; in fact, it's really only thrown around by people of our ages (21ish) because that's what keeps them going. The older folks laugh at the younger ones who believe in passion.

I guess I can really only address the crying example I brought up. It was my first day at a new clinic site and I was with a notoriously difficult attending. Between getting hammered with ridiculous pimping questions (all of which I got wrong except for correctly identifying an easy murmur) and being scolded for not coming up with plausible A/P's for my patients, I was just really overwhelmed and took everything personally. I talked about this in a thread over in Allo, and a couple people were very helpful in making me put it into perspective. Unless your attending is being unprofessional in some way, constructive criticism is not always going to be nice. I had been spoiled with that in my previous clinic site (bc pediatricians are generally super nice!). You have to learn to look at it objectively and not take it personally. I took it very personally that day, but I didn't know any better. I worked with that attending for several days after that with a thicker skin and a better attitude, and he actually gave me really good feedback at the end. Does it suck that I sat in my car and cried at the end of that day? Yes. Should it be that way? Probably not. But looking back at the time spent at that site, I learned a LOT and overall I thought it went pretty well besides that first day.

 

[fellowstudent92]

Okay that makes it better sounding lol.

 

[ButImLETired]

Yes but what frustrates me is that people correlate "passion" to withstanding depression, crying, and other ailments associated with the negativities of med school. Can passion really come that strongly in someone? Yes I understand you want to help people really badly. But holy **** this is bordering masochism. What kind of smart/ambitious/hardworking undergrad (such as myself and plenty others) would volunteer themselves to go through this? Unless of course, they really didn't know. Maybe they should have huge disclaimer warning signs on the AMCAS application indicating you're probably going to end up crying, hating yourself, and suffering from depression if you go through this route. Then MAYBE we would see numbers applying to med school drop significantly.
Maybe I really just don't understand it. Perhaps I need more time. The way I've understood the word is that it is largely antiquated amongst the older folks; in fact, it's really only thrown around by people of our ages (21ish) because that's what keeps them going. The older folks laugh at the younger ones who believe in passion.

Look, not everyone is miserable. I'll be the first to admit that I'm garbage at maintaining a work/life balance. Hopefully you're better at it than I am/was. It's certainly true that if you keep doing some of the non-med school things you love, you remain better grounded. I just totally failed at it. I got caught up in a lot of stress and hated studying as much as was required of me and wasn't really able to do any of the things I'd done in college and loved doing because there really wasn't enough time, and that just all made me more depressed which made me less able to dig myself out of the hole. My issue with med school itself is that I think that the focus on the appearance of wellness takes away from actual wellness. I think that instead of only focusing on "hey let's go for a run together and then stop for some fro-yo! WELLNESS!!" we should focus a bit more on empathizing with each other's struggles and helping each other out. I found some great advisors who were there when I needed them, but I wished I could be as open with my classmates without being looked at like the dark, angry East coast chick who couldn't handle the workload.

As I said though, even for me, even with all this, third year was way better. That's cause the concept of passion isn't antiquated at all, and you really can't get through this mess without it. When I finally started seeing what I was actually working for, I realized that much as I hated being a med student, I did not go to med school to be a professional med student. I went to med school to become a physician, and I still loved THAT part. I still thought medicine itself was super cool, and thought the residents were super cool and super smart, and realized that if I could get through to the end of med school, there was a light at the end of the tunnel. So my point is, you hopefully will be a far happier med student than I was, but even if preclinicals get you down, 3rd year may very well pick you back up. And then residency comes along, and hopefully you pick a specialty where everyone's a little bit like you, and you totally fit in, and you find it completely fascinating, and you feel like an idiot but in the BEST way, and the passion comes back, cause again, you are NOT in med school with the goal of becoming a professional med student. If you can enjoy the journey, great, and I hope you do, but if not, please know that the destination is VERY different.

 

[Funke]

.

Love your screen name. FIRE ZE MISSILES!

 

[radkat101]

I thought medical school was going to be bad coming in, and it is still worse than I expected. I'm only a month in now, so I can can only give a partial perspective, but the biggest shock to me has been how much stuff is totally irrelevant to what I came here to learn, and how quickly the "omg I'm gonna be a doctor!!" feeling fades after spending all your time around medical students and physicians. Also, I have never in my life stressed about passing a class before and yet I have found myself doing just that. A lot of pre-meds come in idealistic about becoming doctors and matching X specialty only to discover how daunting of a task this really is. Sometimes I ask myself, "seriously... all of that effort for THIS?" and thoughts go through my head of the other things I could be out there doing that would allow me to be enjoying life a little more. It can become a little depressing at times.

That being said, I still think I made the right choice and feel privileged for the opportunity. Everyone who chooses to do this better be DAMN sure about it though.

 

[pathologylover]

Expectations: new friends, cool profs, new me.
Reality: no friends, boring profs, same me.

 

[FutureOncologist]

Honestly thought I would be hot **** for not having any debt after medical school being with the Navy, but it turns out that med school chicks find "not being in a consistent place for the next 4 years after med school" very unattractive.

But then dat stipend came in, and that all kinda faded away...

 

[DermViser]

I started to write a response and then remembered that I had no idea what medical school was like or even really thought about it. My decision to apply to medical school was probably best described as a whim. So... in conclusion... I guess I'm useless for this.

Must be nice...

 

[DermViser]

In contrast...

I enjoyed medical school immensely. I learned a lot of interesting stuff, I feel like I got something out of my clinical years. Pre-clinical retrospectively was a little silly, but once you realize this and titrate how much you study, it is a joke to get through. I definitely know people like @Planes2Doc well maybe not as extreme, but certainly on the same vein. That group highly correlates with people that I think (and a lot of them agree) shouldn't have gone to medical school in the first place (went because of parental pressure, went into for financial or other reasons). I don't think you will find many if any people that enjoyed their medical school experience as much as I did, but the vast majority of my classmates were pretty satisfied with their education and their time in school.

 

[DermViser]

Ya, I couldn't find it in the abstract or a simple google search. I know what you are talking about though. I was on the committee that went through our own student depression statuses. (we did a pretty big survey/study similar to what they did, but just internally). The faculty conclusion was to do "resiliency training" for all incoming classes. ie the same stuff that they put soldiers through to help them get through basic training and combat. The students told them, "thats great, but why not fix the curriculum while you are at it." It really is scary stuff.

Sad that this was the response of your medical school, rather than actually fixing the preclinical curriculum.

 

[DermViser]

I really don't know why it has to be like this. Maybe if med schools focused less on one universal version of "wellness" and more on getting people to share their true feelings, the situation would be less frustrating for those who feel like they're always in the minority, I don't know.

I remember there was this one class at my med school that we had heard a lot about because it was supposed to be great. The professor was supposed to be this huge expert in the field and she was supposed to be this fantastic teacher, and everyone always talked about how great and easy it was to learn because of how great the lectures were. The professor constantly talked about how you didn't have to do much studying at home because the lectures were specially designed to stick, blah blah blah. When I got there, I found the material incredibly complicated and difficult to understand, and I found that it required a huge amount of studying at home. I was frustrated by the fact that the upperclassmen had given us this really biased view of the subject, and a huge proportion of the class struggled with the first exam because none of us expected to have to study that hard. By the end of the block, we'd all gotten the hang of it, and it was time for us to tell the class below us about it and give them advice. I requested to be in the panel because I felt like I had figured out pretty good ways of dealing with the material, and I didn't want to sugarcoat just how much studying was required to do well. The panels were over 2 different days. I was on the first one, and I explained that for us mere mortals, going to lecture was not in fact enough, the material was extremely complicated, and frankly I'd studied more during that block than the block before. I was then told that I would not be a part of the panel the second day because I'd been "too negative" and freaked out the underclassmen. For that same reason I was not allowed to give advice regarding step 1 (which I still argue was the worst 5 weeks of my life, bar none) and was not allowed to be a peer advisor to the underclassmen when I was a fourth year. Mind you, people still came to me for advice because I'd give them practical solutions instead of just "you're gonna do great! Just hang in there and don't forget to exercise and eat well to keep yourself sharp and happy!", but I was no longer allowed to do so in an official setting.

This is absolutely ridiculous.

 

[RogueUnicorn]

tl;dr - Medical school SUCKS. And this is a huge understatement.

you should do it better. med school is a blast. there are some **** moments, classes are usually worthless and rotations are a mixed bag at best, but overall i have to say it's the best time ever

 

[fellowstudent92]

^how so? you didn't mention one good thing in that sentence. What are some awesome moments? Or are you referring to the ample free time you realized you have to do whatever you want?

 

[RogueUnicorn]

Ample free time (more free time than you'll probably ever have for the rest of your life until retirement - people like Planes, think about that for a moment.), all privilege and no responsibility, tons of learning, doing really really cool stuff like touch people's hearts (literally or figuratively, take your pick), friends who're in the trenches with you, i can go on and on and on

 

[Law2Doc]

Ample free time (more free time than you'll probably ever have for the rest of your life until retirement - people like Planes, think about that for a moment.), all privilege and no responsibility, tons of learning, doing really really cool stuff like touch people's hearts (literally or figuratively, take your pick), friends who're in the trenches with you, i can go on and on and on

I don't know that "ample free time" is a fair or representative assessment. In truth about 20% find they have ample free time, 30% wish they could find another 10 hours in the day to get through all the material, and the rest are somewhere in the middle. I personally was in that second group. Ended up where I wanted, but it definitely wasn't by coasting or enjoying the weekends. Clinical years were more fun but certainly some rotations were very very long hours. Intern year was even "better" in terms of day to day work, but with much longer hours still. And so on. It's not a bad existence, but anyone who tells you it's easy and you'll have a lot of free time may very well be representative of a portion of the med school class you won't be in. So take it with a grain if salt.

 

[user12]

lotta interesting points here. I really hope someday I get to see what med school is like rather than reading about it. i would be PSYCHED if i got accepted. but when things get tough... do you ever tell yourself, like... "it's only four years." I mean yeah, you have residency after which I guess probably isn't a lot of fun. but you're given one of the absolute BEST opportunities in the world to have pretty much the greatest job. I could see how someone could get depressed over the stress and amount of work. but you're going to be a DOCTOR. that's amazing. I mean, think about it... it could be a lot worse. like, you could be in prison for 4 years instead. and I hear that place REALLY sucks. like, in med school, all you gotta worry about is not failing and maybe making a friend or two. but in prison, you have a whole OTHER assortment of things to fear... and im not sure if you'd even really want to make too many friends. and you don't even get a cool degree like "M.D." once you graduate... you get "E.C." ... "ex-convict." doesn't look nearly as impressive on a resume. you guys have a bright shining sun at the end of your tunnel. they have a night light. and yeah, im sure MD doesn't ALWAYS make the women come running, but EC usually DOES make them run... in the opposite direction (of course, not if you're that Jeremy Meeks guy. but I think he's like the exception to the rule. and I think he's also missing some teeth ) as hard as im sure it is (and I do believe it is very, very hard), i'd love to be in your position.

 

[SouthernSurgeon]

This is absolutely ridiculous.

You don't get a feature article in the New York Times on how happy your students are if you let the realistic students start opening their mouths!!

 

[DermViser]

You don't get a feature article in the New York Times on how happy your students are if you let the realistic students start opening their mouths!!

At first I was going to say that her own medical school wasn't letting her speak to students officially to advise them but then I realized that you were referencing the NY Times article on the "Wellness" initiative by Vanderbilt: http://well.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/12/22/a-medical-school-more-like-hogwarts/ (which tells me how toxic it must have gotten to actually institute a formal wellness program). to you, sir. As usual, the NY Times comments are interesting (as always) - and it seems like one of the realistic students at Vanderbilt was able to get thru to post a comment.

At least they're giving them "yoga classes, community service events, healthy cooking classes, forums on nutrition and sleep, and a mentoring program that pairs senior students with newer ones."