F____ acpe

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yeah i don't see any new news re: them, unless the OP discovered it just now...so delayed anger? haha
 
Members don't see this ad :)
just the thought about the % of my class (westernu) is currently without an offer and the thought of 2 schools opening in the LA area and one more in the inland empire... It's a disgrace. NO excuses.
 
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Read the new article in Drug Topics....it is written by some dude who works for the ACPE. Complete propaganda.....he gives his e-mail address in it, I say everyone email him and tell him how they are ruining the profession.
 
SkiPharmer said:
Read the new article in Drug Topics....it is written by some dude who works for the ACPE. Complete propaganda.....he gives his e-mail address in it, I say everyone email him and tell him how they are ruining the profession.
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no, i dont need to read it or email him. anything associated with acpe belongs in the trash!

what we all needs to be done is to educate each and every high school counselor to the despair that is pharmacy. If every kid that went through a high school counselor knew that pharmacy was a bad deal, we could turn the tide.

acpe wants more schools, they get more revenue!!!
 
I've heard the situation is really bad for this year and thought 2011 was bad. My former school has over half the class still without offers and I'm wondering what is 2013 gonna bring. Why would the ACPE allow more schools to be opened in CA when they're already having unemployment issues? And I don't understand the logic of opening more due to baby boomers retiring and all that BS, seems to me that people are working longer be ausenowadays you have to just to live or for the insurance benefits.
 
He does make a very good point however. They would be in violation of the Sherman Antitrust Act if they restricted the number of pharmacy schools seeking accreditation. Let's just say that they did restrict the number of schools opening and the Unaffordable Care Act passed requiring x amount of pharmacists who weren't available. They would pay the price for restriction.

The surplus has resulted in some chains flushing out their lesser pharmacists who refuse to improve their skills. I know the downside is that chains such as CVS have used the surplus as an opportunity turn all of us into metrics managers. I also feel for those of you graduating with massive debt and no job. I'm just representing the bright side momentarily. He is right in that it is not their job to restrict.
 
steveysmith54 said:
just the thought about the % of my class (westernu) is currently without an offer and the thought of 2 schools opening in the LA area and one more in the inland empire... It's a disgrace. NO excuses.
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Umm...ACPE just put the brakes on AUHS again- they are not enrolling a class for fall 2012. They also stopped Midway so many times that the school threw in the towel and gave up...only to have an existing program (Charleston) turn them into a satellite school.

ACPE report for the January 2012 board meeting can be found here (click on Jan 2012 proceedings):
https://acpe-accredit.org/news/default.asp
 
297point1 said:
Umm...ACPE just put the brakes on AUHS again- they are not enrolling a class for fall 2012. They also stopped Midway so many times that the school threw in the towel and gave up...only to have an existing program (Charleston) turn them into a satellite school.

ACPE report for the January 2012 board meeting can be found here (click on Jan 2012 proceedings):
https://acpe-accredit.org/news/default.asp
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Last time i heard they are still interviewing, taking apps, and mailing propaganda.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
297point1 said:
Umm...ACPE just put the brakes on AUHS again- they are not enrolling a class for fall 2012. They also stopped Midway so many times that the school threw in the towel and gave up...only to have an existing program (Charleston) turn them into a satellite school.

ACPE report for the January 2012 board meeting can be found here (click on Jan 2012 proceedings):
https://acpe-accredit.org/news/default.asp
Click to expand...

I know. I'm actually satisfied with the latest minutes from ACPE. The # of programs they're not letting through is higher than it has been in the past.

Besides, even the most optimistic would peg the 1st graduating class coming out 2017+, by then we'll all have a good 4-5 years of practice experience under our belts.
 
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CaptainPicard said:
Regardless, there was an active movement by *some people* to limit new schools. I believe that the AMA recommended fewer schools open. As for active involvement, who knows.

Does Forbes spread urban legends?

http://www.forbes.com/2009/08/25/american-medical-association-opinions-columnists-shikha-dalmia.html
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1. That's an OPINION column. It reflects the opinion of the author, not of Forbes.

2. It has inaccuracies. Plenty of new medical schools have opened in this county since the 1980's. Nearly two dozen???

3. It's from almost three years ago. But :thumbup: for Google skills.

One thing I know. The AMA does not accredit medical schools, in any way, shape or form. Furthermore, the majority of physicians are not members of the AMA, so I don't know that they really wield the absolute power that Ms. Dalmia seems to want to credit them with.

What was her agenda anyway? Maybe she's a chiropractor?
 
CaptainPicard said:
Also, in case anyone was interested in some of the money that flows into the ACPE:

https://www.acpe-accredit.org/pdf/CE_Fees.pdf

But I'll say that's chump change compared to annual fees the ASHP gets for accrediting residency programs.

http://www.ashp.org/DocLibrary/Accreditation/RTP_AccredFeeSchedule.aspx

So much money involved... Who is trying to serve our interests and who is trying to generate money for their non-profit for really nice salaries?
.
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How much does it cost to maintain an accreditation program? How much does it cost to maintain and administer The Match? You can't accurately assess whether these fees are fair unless you know what the services they provide cost. Do you have salary information for ACPE or ASHP?
 
I guess they must all be DO schools. Because the AMA says that no allopathic schools were opened during the 1980s or 1990s.

http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2010/03/29/prl20329.htm

Can't wait for another sarcastic "thumbs up for google skills" comment from you.

All she said was that they tried to use their influence to keep new schools from opening. She never said that they accredit schools.

" What was her agenda anyway? Maybe she's a chiropractor?"

ad hominem much?

Whatever the case, there was obviously something (not necessarily AMA) keeping new allopathic schools from opening. Just look at the population growth during the 80s and 90s. It made no sense to restrict new schools.
 
All4MyDaughter said:
How much does it cost to maintain an accreditation program? How much does it cost to maintain and administer The Match? You can't accurately assess whether these fees are fair unless you know what the services they provide cost. Do you have salary information for ACPE or ASHP?
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Does it really cost the same amount to approve a residency the second year as it did the first year?

Salary information is hard to obtain. But don't be fooled, non-profit salaries are typically very good. But I'll let you google that yourself.
 
CaptainPicard said:
Does it really cost the same amount to approve a residency the second year as it did the first year?

Salary information is hard to obtain. But don't be fooled, non-profit salaries are typically very good. But I'll let you google that yourself.
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I was a nonprofit executive before I became a pharmacist. No need to Google. :D
 
CaptainPicard said:
I guess they must all be DO schools. Because the AMA says that no allopathic schools were opened during the 1980s or 1990s.

http://www.ama-assn.org/amednews/2010/03/29/prl20329.htm

Can't wait for another sarcastic "thumbs up for google skills" comment from you.

All she said was that they tried to use their influence to keep new schools from opening. She never said that they accredit schools.

" What was her agenda anyway? Maybe she's a chiropractor?"

ad hominem much?

Whatever the case, there was obviously something (not necessarily AMA) keeping new allopathic schools from opening. Just look at the population growth during the 80s and 90s. It made no sense to restrict new schools.
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Oh, captain. I don't mean to hurt your feelings. But you posted a source that said no new medical schools had been opened since the 1980's. And that's not true. The DO/MD issue is irrelevant. I was simply pointing out that SINCE the 1980's, there have been dozens of new medical schools opened. And your source that you linked above verifies that. There may have been other reasons that no medical schools opened in the 80's and 90's. I don't think there were very many pharmacy schools opening during that time period either. Why do you suppose that is? Could it be market driven? Are you old enough to remember that time period? The economy? But I digress...

This all goes back to my post about the urban legend that the AMA restricts the opening of medical schools. Which IS an urban legend. You haven't posted anything to disprove that. You won't be able to, and that's OK.

There ARE very valid reasons that more pharmacy schools (vs medical schools) might open. Mostly, it's that the barrier to entry is much higher for a medical school. The start up cost is more prohibitive. The difficulty of finding hospitals for 2 years of rotations. The equipment. And so on.
 
Rph888 said:
If every kid that went through a high school counselor knew that pharmacy was a bad deal, we could turn the tide.
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Do high school counselors really do that? In my high school, and apparently many of my friends' schools as well, they were barely able to send out your transcripts to a college with a 2 month notice.
 
Ackj said:
Do high school counselors really do that? In my high school, and apparently many of my friends' schools as well, they were barely able to send out your transcripts to a college with a 2 month notice.
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:laugh:

I am laughing because it is true. I think ANY counselor would be THRILLED to think that any of there students will end up in professional school. Mine messed up sending my transcripts to my college so many times it would be funny if it wasn't true (or if it had happened to someone else). I cannot imagine a counselor advocating avoiding ANY healthcare profession. Isn't there biggest concern trying to prevent HS dropouts? I submit that any comment otherwise is probably out of touch with the reality of being a HS counselor. :smuggrin:
 
owlegrad said:
:laugh:

I am laughing because it is true. I think ANY counselor would be THRILLED to think that any of there students will end up in professional school. Mine messed up sending my transcripts to my college so many times it would be funny if it wasn't true (or if it had happened to someone else). I cannot imagine a counselor advocating avoiding ANY healthcare profession. Isn't there biggest concern trying to prevent HS dropouts? I submit that any comment otherwise is probably out of touch with the reality of being a HS counselor. :smuggrin:
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I will admit my utmost ignorance toward their profession. However, I know sending transcripts is part of their job, and they did not do that well. Nobody dropped out of my school though, only a few transfers.
 
Ackj said:
I will admit my utmost ignorance toward their profession. However, I know sending transcripts is part of their job, and they did not do that well. Nobody dropped out of my school though, only a few transfers.
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What sort of HS did you go to? I went to a private school and we had some drop outs. I thought HS drop out rates were really high and that it is a huge problem. Perhaps I am mistaken.
 
All4MyDaughter said:
There ARE very valid reasons that more pharmacy schools (vs medical schools) might open. Mostly, it's that the barrier to entry is much higher for a medical school. The start up cost is more prohibitive. The difficulty of finding hospitals for 2 years of rotations. The equipment. And so on.
Click to expand...

I think that's one of the main reasons for why medical school expansion has been limited. However, if you look at osteopathic schools over the last 2 decades... they have been expanding very fast in relative terms. It's only now that allopathic schools have started to jump on the bandwagon so to speak.
 
owlegrad said:
We should do whatever doctors do, it seems to work.
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MDs and DOs don't do anything. The government creates and destroys GME (graduate medical education) programs. The # of medical schools can skyrocket but there will still be the same amount of residency slots therefore that is their, for better or for worse, bottleneck. Better because there is a static number of MDs and DOs that are trained every year and worse because the mid-level providers move in on their ground.
 
Shnurek said:
MDs and DOs don't do anything. The government creates and destroys GME (graduate medical education) programs. The # of medical schools can skyrocket but there will still be the same amount of residency slots therefore that is their, for better or for worse, bottleneck. Better because there is a static number of MDs and DOs that are trained every year and worse because the mid-level providers move in on their ground.
Click to expand...

I don't even want to think about GME funding. :(
 
We should take a page from the congressional Republicans.... Sure allow bills and stuff to pass all day long, but if you want to hamstring someone look for the true lynch pin. For everyone here that'd be the NAPLEX.

Make the NAPLEX appropriately (more) difficult and it doesn't matter how many schools open and churn out people, if they aren't able to pass the final hurdle. Microsoft actually did this on the download in the 90s when they came out with their certifications (combined with tests not giving the exact breakdown), many point to that as the reason certification lagged for a few years after their initial push.
 
KUMoose said:
We should take a page from the congressional Republicans.... Sure allow bills and stuff to pass all day long, but if you want to hamstring someone look for the true lynch pin. For everyone here that'd be the NAPLEX.

Make the NAPLEX appropriately (more) difficult and it doesn't matter how many schools open and churn out people, if they aren't able to pass the final hurdle. Microsoft actually did this on the download in the 90s when they came out with their certifications (combined with tests not giving the exact breakdown), many point to that as the reason certification lagged for a few years after their initial push.
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That's an interesting thought that might just work. Instead of having passing as 75 pts = 50% ~ we can make it at least 105 pts ~ 70%.
 
owlegrad said:
:laugh:

I am laughing because it is true. I think ANY counselor would be THRILLED to think that any of there students will end up in professional school. Mine messed up sending my transcripts to my college so many times it would be funny if it wasn't true (or if it had happened to someone else). I cannot imagine a counselor advocating avoiding ANY healthcare profession. Isn't there biggest concern trying to prevent HS dropouts? I submit that any comment otherwise is probably out of touch with the reality of being a HS counselor. :smuggrin:
Click to expand...

What the hell is this high school counselor you speak of. Oh, like the movies? You mean to tell me they are actually real?
 
297point1 said:
If they are still taking apps and interviewing under the premise that they will be opening in fall 2012, that is very sad news. :(
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The ACPE disclaimer should be prominent on anything they send out. If not, forwarding it may help keeping the school a non-school.
 
Shnurek said:
MDs and DOs don't do anything. The government creates and destroys GME (graduate medical education) programs. The # of medical schools can skyrocket but there will still be the same amount of residency slots therefore that is their, for better or for worse, bottleneck. Better because there is a static number of MDs and DOs that are trained every year and worse because the mid-level providers move in on their ground.
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Shnurek is right on that last point...the path to a better profession is to expand roles & demand for services, not limit practitioner supply. If we stayed constrained through the 2000's vs. massively dumped more pharmacists on to the market, we'd be getting into pissing matches about the rise of super-technicians with special sign-off authority.
 
owlegrad said:
What sort of HS did you go to? I went to a private school and we had some drop outs. I thought HS drop out rates were really high and that it is a huge problem. Perhaps I am mistaken.
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I was also at a private school, all guys, pretty small school, only graduated about 70. Nobody simply dropped out, any students who left did so because their families were moving, or they transferred to another school, to the best of my knowledge. I'd imagine inner city schools have more of a drop out problem than private schools though.
 
Ackj said:
I was also at a private school, all guys, pretty small school, only graduated about 70. Nobody simply dropped out, any students who left did so because their families were moving, or they transferred to another school, to the best of my knowledge. I'd imagine inner city schools have more of a drop out problem than private schools though.
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It's not a contest, but my private school was even smaller! :p

That doesn't sound right...
 
steveysmith54 said:
just the thought about the % of my class (westernu) is currently without an offer and the thought of 2 schools opening in the LA area and one more in the inland empire... It's a disgrace. NO excuses.
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What is the %?

What are the 2 LA schools and Inland Empire school? The names of them I mean.
 
Judgment Dragon said:
What is the %?

What are the 2 LA schools and Inland Empire school? The names of them I mean.
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This is guestimate talking to my friends, I'd say between 50-65% of students currently don't have an official offer.

There is Loma Linda. WesternU has a lot of sites in IE, I know it's not considered IE, but a lot of their students end up working there.


The two schools that I consider LA are: North Hollywood

http://www.westcoastuniversity.edu/...unding-dean-of-new-school-of-pharmacy-85.html

The other one is in Long Beach, but i consider it still LA.

There is plans for Cal Lutheron to open a pharmD school, which is in IE
 
Don't forget 25% of my graduating class coming into the California market :D
 
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