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Failed Med School, now trying Dental

Discussion in 'Pre-Dental' started by Zinger09, Sep 4, 2013.

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  1. Zinger09

    Zinger09

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    A few years ago I got dismissed from medical school and now am applying to dental school. The reason I got dismissed is because I failed 2 courses. Since then, I took graduate level courses in the areas I struggled in med school, shadowed dentists, volunteered in a dental lab, improved on learning strategies, and did well on the DAT. I feel that the MCAT was very good indicator of what to expect in med school. I am pretty sure there is a strong correlation between MCAT scores and Step 1 scores. I can say this without one ounce of doubt, that the MCAT is significantly more difficult than the DAT. While dentistry is obviously more specialized then medical school, is it fair to assume it will be easier? Now, I have no doubt, dental school will be challenging, but because I could not make it in medical school does that mean I can't make it in dental school or another health professional school? I imagine a dismissal is not a good thing to have on any application, but it's not like I got dismissed from a masters program and now trying for dental school. Does anyone know of people who failed out of medical school and are now in dental school? I don't know of anyone in particular, but have heard through friends that it was possible.
  2. coolslugs

    coolslugs Senior Member

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    Dental school is definitely not easier. It has challenges in its own ways.
  3. Koalafied

    Koalafied Newtyρe‒ƒ │⅁‒ + ⏩ ✈

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    Good luck.:)
  4. DancingBull

    DancingBull

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    You do realize that dental students basically take a bunch of the same classes as medical students in the first two years, in addition to courses that are taught in the sim lab, right?
  5. squigloo

    squigloo Coolest Member

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    Everyone here is going to hate that you are one of the "couldn't do med school, so I'll do the easier dental school" applicants. Is the only reason that you now want to do dentistry because you think it's easier? Why don't you work harder to achieve your original goals, rather than just opt for a route you think will be easier, even if you end up hating it?

    You're asking a bunch of people who have qualifications good enough for any medical profession, but choose to go into dentistry not because it is easier, but because they are passionate about it. Your post comes across as belittling to what we have all worked hard to try and get into.
    Scorp93 likes this.
  6. supergenius310

    supergenius310

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    ^^....Dental students are just as capable and intelligent as a person going into medicine.
  7. Ionz

    Ionz

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    This thread is going to go very well
  8. wtang567

    wtang567

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    DeVry University School of Dental Medicine has a special program that is friendly to medical school drop-out applicants. I think their deadline to submit might have already passed. Guess you could apply next cycle. Good luck with your decision. You seem to be very very informed about dentistry.
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  9. Koalafied

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  10. sacapuntas

    sacapuntas Verified Account Gold Donor

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    I will try to leave any sarcasm out of this post...as hard as it may be.


    So far, there doesn't seem to be a difference in the course load between my D1 class and the MS1 class at my school. We have the same professors for our basic sciences. They have to go a little bit more in depth in some of the basic science topics than we do (i.e. they take the entire body in anatomy as seriously as we take anatomy from the neck up). However, they don't have to play arts and crafts in the wax lab like we do.

    Overall, they seem to have most of the same challenges as well as some different ones that are probably about equal in magnitude.

    All this to say, if you had good study habits in medical school and just couldn't hack the material and the speed at which it comes, you probably will face a similar fate in dental school.

    But, if you have improved your study habits or matured significantly in other ways then perhaps dental school will be manageable for you.


    As to whether or not I know any failed med students who are in dental school...no, I do not know of any nor have I personally heard of one. Though, there are a handful of people who failed in med school admissions who are in my dental school class.
  11. Zinger09

    Zinger09

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    I want to apologize if my original post came across belittling dental school. That was not my intention. After researching other professions, one of the biggest regrets I have is that I did not consider dental school right out of undergrad. This could be for a number of reasons, but I am not going to get into that. After I got dismissed, I did make the decision not to pursue medicine anymore and find another profession that I could find fulfillment in. If I wanted to, I could have applied foreign med schools, but I chose not to. No, I am not doing dentistry because I think it is easier. In response to other posts, I did work hard in med school and yes I do realize some classes are taken by both med and dental schools.

    I posted about my situation to find out how admission committees would view a previously dismissed med student and if anyone knew of others who were successful in gaining admissions after not making it through med school.
  12. gn4

    gn4

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    Well, your post did come off a bit as If you were belittling dental school. However, as pertaining to your question. I do know a gir who dropped out of medschool and two years later She was admitted to dental school. She had applied to dental school at the same time as She applied to medschool. She got accepted to both at the time, but her parents and family pressured her to go to medschool even though She just wanted to do dental school. Her older brothers and her father were doctors. She partied too much during dental school. She was just immature. Failed out and I guess She decided to mature. She then applied to dental school and got in. She just finished her first year with straight A's. So it is possible. But idk how often this happens.
  13. Ionz

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    I know a friend who dropped medical school for dental school. He didn't get kicked out but quit voluntarily one year in. He hasn't gotten an acceptance for two cycles, so he's out med and dent.

    I'd imagine your situation would be harder since you were ousted by the med school themselves. But if your heart is set on this, then no one on this forum should stop you from trying.
  14. Koalafied

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    It's virtually kinder than reality.;)

    Work harder next time. Good luck.:)
  15. Illfavor

    Illfavor

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    You failed two courses. How much easier does it need to be?
  16. LaughingGas

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    <3 &#51312;&#51060; &#45936;&#49828;&#52264;&#45356;
  17. Soleus715

    Soleus715

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    [​IMG]

    &#51312;&#51060; &#45936;&#49828;&#52264;&#45356; <3 &#50883;&#51020; &#44032;&#49828;

    LOL
  18. SpecterGT260

    SpecterGT260 Catdoucheus

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    He is unlikely to succeed in dental school unless he learned his lesson after being kicked out of med school. From what I have seen, medical school courses in years 1-2 are faster paced and a little more detailed, but we don't have nearly the out-of-class time requirements that dental students have meaning that, while they don't have quite the volume to study, they have less time to study it in. The point was well made above: he has to learn to work harder this time around because it wasn't an issue of difficulty. Neither med or dental classes are "difficult" in terms of material. They are difficult in terms of time management.

    (and if anyone wants to hate on me for the comparison above, just know that at our school (top 25 in dental, medical, and PA) the medical students will often tutor under class students from all 3 programs. I've seen the curricula of each).
  19. wb1

    wb1

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    I'm not hating! I hope your claim is true about having "having out-of-class time." With that extra time, I plan to get my study done and continue to clock in my regular 8 hr sleep a night.

    If a dental student has a horrible hand-skills then that out-of-class times are spent in the sim lab. Hopefully, that won't be the case of most dental students.



  20. wb1

    wb1

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    What were the reasons you failed two classes?

    What went wrong? Perhaps, we all can learn from your mistakes and avoid them. If you could demonstrate what you learned from your mistakes and how you amended that in your master program would get the adcom attention. Why not start here?


  21. Frank22

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    I don't know of anyone who got into dental school and didn't have the potential to get into medical school.
  22. Silent Cool

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    Sent you a PM.
  23. Koalafied

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    :laugh:, especially if you want to specialize. ;)
    http://www.reactiongifs.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/oh-boy.gif
  24. doc toothache

    doc toothache

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    You seem to be doing well beating around the bush. You avoided mentioning the specific courses that you failed and that you claim you retook at the "graduate level". Unless there has been a recent change in the definition, the adjective "well" does not have a numerical value. At any rate, the dismissal from medical school may be the least of your problems since it is vastly overshadowed by your attitude.
  25. yggdrasila

    yggdrasila designated whiner

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    OP is gonna need this
  26. pietachok

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    You're on a pre-dent forum, so you aren't going to get a lot of responses from people who have the experience of being in med school. Likewise, I can't speak for dental school, but I feel quite comfortable saying that most medical schools do not kick someone out for failing 2 courses. So, you really need to be asking how dental programs and you should view your likelihood of success in the context of whatever factor caused your school to dismiss you after just 2 F's -- one would expect there was a reason they thought you couldn't or wouldn't improve if given another chance. Of course, that's not applicable if this is simply a policy of your school . . . but in that case, wtf is wrong with that school?

    Also from your past posts (I presume before you got dismissed), it looks like you were at an osteopathic school. To me it feels like a double red flag, because those are medical programs that are used to giving people the benefit of the doubt. They take the non-traditional applicants who were too busy being 19 years old to do well in college but figured stuff out and clearly could to be a good doctor, they take people who are bad test takers when other schools won't look beyond the score to realize how smart they are, . . . etc. They are used to helping people who have a difficult adjustment. It makes me skeptical that you were dismissed solely for 2F's rather than asked to repeat the year. If that was their on--paper policy, you need to make that clear to any health profession program you apply to.

    Your feeling that the MCAT reflects the material in school is probably based on the earliest coursework. I don't feel like the correlation extends beyond that. Accordingly, I think comparing the MCAT and DAT as a proxy for DDS and MD/DO programs is silly.

    What did you do to fix the problem? Obviously you took grad classes to show an adcom that you could do it, but what did you *actually* change in your life/health/etc. . . . what did your med school need to see/hear/know to believe you should have gotten another chance -- you can only succeed in a similar program (and all of these programs are similar) if you actually changed something . . . and that's really hard if not impossible if the problem was something like underlying motivation or true interest in the material.

    It would be better to have a dismissal from a masters program. In that case you could argue it was a bad fit and you made the wrong decision when enrolling. To a large extent you are asking to be admitted to the same thing you failed. It seems like you need to adjust your perspective on dental and medical school -- you seem to be focusing on the ways in which they are dissimilar to support the notion you can succeed in dental admission/programs, but you probably should be focusing on the ways in which they are similar, because that's where you're going to run into concerns from adcoms and actual difficulties succeeding.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  27. DrRoyal Pains

    DrRoyal Pains

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    You do realize that the first two years of dental school are more rigorous than med, right?
  28. SpecterGT260

    SpecterGT260 Catdoucheus

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    In time requirements, sure. That's because med doesn't have us start clinical training first year like dental schools do. OPs problem is likely time management so your point is valid but be careful with statements like this; especially when you don't really have a valid understanding of either curriculum yet.
  29. NDPitch

    NDPitch SDN Gold Donor Gold Donor

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    I fully support this statement.

    I think one can make a solid argument that medical school gets harder as you go, while dental school gets easier. The first two years of dental school teach more material than the first 2 years of medical school, and thus you are busier and have more to memorize.

    Med students typically aren't in class all day, every day. The same cannot be said about D1 and D2 years. For example, try taking gross anatomy/lab, histology/lab, biochemistry, an ethics course, a case studies course, a biomaterials course, AND after all that, still have dental anatomy AND long sessions in the dental lab learning and being tested on how to use your hands and create teeth out of wax. It's not easy, at all. Haha. But once we get to clinic, the course load starts to taper off and we see light at the end of the tunnel.

    Med students, on the other hand, feel it hardest as they near the end of their medical education in rotations and residencies.
  30. tbond5

    tbond5 Enrolled

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    I sure hope you aren't going into dentistry just because you failed medical school. I feel dental schools are more holistic in the application process but that doesn't mean dental school is easier by any stretch of the imagination.
  31. SpecterGT260

    SpecterGT260 Catdoucheus

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    This isn't really accurate. Time in class doesnt correlate at all with the amount of information. Medical school gets a little easier as you go because you trade raw sprint-speed studying for time in the clinic with less legit book-style studying. As someone who has tutored dental anatomy and worked with other med students who tutor the other basic science courses, dental school does not have the breadth, depth, or speed of the basic science material as compared to medical school for the first two years. However we also don't have to be on campus from 8am to 5pm every day (maybe once or twice a week for us. Otherwise its usually 8 -1 or 2) so we have considerably more "free" time to get through the material. Most medical students, if you ask them, will say the first two years are much more difficult, the last two years are more time consuming.
    Last edited: Sep 12, 2013
  32. kejs

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    Your situation will certainly raise eyebrows with the adcom but that doesn't mean you don't have a shot. If you haven't done so, I would spend some time shadowing a dentist and getting to really know the profession before you consider applying. You need to make sure this is something you really want to do and not just seen as a "backup" plan for getting kicked out of medical school.

    You have a lot of explaining to do for the adcoms so you need to make sure that you can convince them (and yourself) that dentistry is fit for you and that you are capable of handling something that is certainly by no means less rigorous than medical school. If you can show them that you've grown from your hurdles and really show your passion for this profession, then you may have a chance.
  33. Dent35

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  34. UCLAzy

    UCLAzy

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    thanks for learning us, much appreciated doc. you and OP seem to have similar attitudes, i hope it works out for OP as well as it does for you
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013
  35. SpecterGT260

    SpecterGT260 Catdoucheus

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    Not even remotely. Being factually correct is somewhat important and the post I quoted was nearly completely made up. If you can't handle the opinion that the two curricula are difficult for different reasons (which is exactly what I said) I suggest you take some time to reflect on your own insecurities. Like I said, I've seen the material from both courses. At my school the basic sciences for both schools like anatomy are taught by the exact same graduate faculty (PhDs). They aren't the same note sets, and they arent the same tests. And that is perfectly reasonable given that dental students have much more out-of-class responsibilities and are held on campus longer more of the time. One wouldn't and shouldn't expect them to be held accountable for the same volume and pace of information. And just because it isn't as fast and fat doesn't mean it is slow and lean. It just means that the curriculum isn't as much so. As I said previously, I think the OPs problem sounds like time management. The basic sciences aren't conceptually difficult. They just take a large time commitment to study the material. So again (as I also said in a previous post) I don't expect the OP to do well in dental school either unless he fixes the problems that made him flunk out of medical school. He may even do worse considering the more rigorous schedule that dental school has.
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2013
  36. Ferneezy

    Ferneezy I don't always Go Blue, but when I do...

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    strong "facts".

    by the way, i'm pretty sure i can urinate farther/faster/higher than you. because of the bold assertion, it's fact. period.
  37. SpecterGT260

    SpecterGT260 Catdoucheus

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    You entirely ignored the important parts of my posts and tried to initiate a pissing match based on something you have no functional understanding of (on either aspect... pre-anythings just... pretty clueless about what graduate curriculum is like). You have both the right to be wrong and to sit in your own little world railing at anyone who says something you don't like. With a little luck, hopefully some of the people around here who don't have such fragile egos will learn a little and understand that there was simply nothing offensive in those earlier posts. :thumbup: But I'm out.
  38. gn4

    gn4

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    Considering I have an older brother in a medical residency and an older sister who is a 4th year dental student, I can somehow give my opinion watching both.

    According to my brother, medical school gets easier as you go on. In fact, he says after second year, you are pretty much at the finish line. After he took his USMLE Step 1, he seemed more relieved and at ease. He was pretty much hard to find and hang out with during the first two years. Too much material to study. He never went to class though. At his school, you could stay home and just download the lectures. He only went to class when it was required like Ethics and Introduction to Clinical Medicine.

    My sister also said the first two years were the hardest for her. She also barely had any time to do anything the first two years. She on the other hand, had to be class. At her dental school, she couldn't skip class. So there were many days that she was on campus from 8 until 5 or 6. Obviously with some breaks in between.

    Now, as far as who had the hardest first two years, I can't really tell. My sister seemed less stressed out than my brother. However, my brother was also gunning for Plastics residency since first year. So, I don't really know what to make of it. In conclusion, both are pretty hard the first two years.
  39. Koalafied

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    Spect, this aged berb copiously runs on &#8806;40%; there, there..... compassion. :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
  40. Ferneezy

    Ferneezy I don't always Go Blue, but when I do...

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    i'm just bustin your chops. everyone is well aware med/dent students work their asses off. personally, i don't care whether or not i'll work harder than my med counterparts.

    i only want to build a private practice surrounding myself with beautiful female models. in terms of "ease"...dentistry facilitates that much better than battling through a plastics residency would.
  41. Koalafied

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    Berb, do you even power-lift? :naughty::naughty::smuggrin:
  42. Soleus715

    Soleus715

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    ^ completely agreed.

    arguing between which school is harder reminds me of elementary school... like the little kids that talk about who's got a better toy. LOL.

    I can't believe it's happening in med/dental forums. it's just so childish.


    everyone's got different goals and dreams and their paths all require different amounts of work.
    i really honestly don't think it matters what you want to be, as long as it's what you wanted to become.
  43. Ferneezy

    Ferneezy I don't always Go Blue, but when I do...

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    [​IMG]
  44. Koalafied

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    I know. Apparently Hooked on Homophonics® didn't work for somebody here..... *giggles*
  45. SpecterGT260

    SpecterGT260 Catdoucheus

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    Hmm. Fair enough. I may have jumped the gun. Youd be surprised how often people freak out at a statement, not because of its content, but because of who said it.
  46. SpecterGT260

    SpecterGT260 Catdoucheus

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    You'll notice that I never once said which was harder. Just wanted to point that out ;)
  47. Koalafied

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  48. Soleus715

    Soleus715

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    I hope you didn't take any offense to what I said, my comments weren't directed at you. If there's anyone my comment actually refers to, it would be the OP along with some other people I've come across on SDN.


    My "^ completely agreed" was in agreement to Ferneezy's comments right above mine about how both med/dental students need to work their butts off.

    :)
  49. sacapuntas

    sacapuntas Verified Account Gold Donor

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    You made a post that seems very accurate from my admittedly limited experience of being on a campus with a med and dental school (among a bunch of other schools). I am not sure why pre-dents took offense to what you are saying. You are being very respectful in your posts and I wouldn't mind someone like you continuing to throw your 2 cents into the dental forums.
  50. SpecterGT260

    SpecterGT260 Catdoucheus

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    Thank you. Its pretty common, though, for people to just assume you're knocking one side whenever any comparison is made. It happens on the MD/DO forums constantly :shrug:

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