Failing PT at Army BOLC?

[ProudMD]

Sure, residency and fellowship.

So were you promised that you could go straight through to a residency of your choosing, but in reality, there were very limited numbers of desired residency positions in the air force, thus forcing you to picking a specialty that you don't want?

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Members don't see this ad.

 

[deuist]

Something along those lines.

 

[ProudMD]

Something along those lines.

Yeah...I can understand the frustration.

Fortunately for me, there really isn't a specialty I want at this point. I am aware that there will be some limitations regarding residency choice - that's why I am keeping an open mind regarding specialties and whatnot.

For me, I am keeping all options open.

 

[WernickeDO]

As far as what recruiters tell you regarding milmed, ignore 80% of what they say. They know nothing about milmed. They are not doctors, they are salesmen. Frankly, you will find much better advice and information on this forum. Being lied to does happen. I guess it's our fault for believing them.

Yeah...I can understand the frustration.

Fortunately for me, there really isn't a specialty I want at this point. I am aware that there will be some limitations regarding residency choice - that's why I am keeping an open mind regarding specialties and whatnot.

For me, I am keeping all options open.

If you go to USUHS then you are not keeping all options open. You are severely limiting your specialty and geographical options when you go milmed. Additionally, you have a longer commitment than HPSP so you just doing your time and getting out is a tougher choice. USUHS is a great school and I respect my colleagues who went there but being milmed carries its own benefits/consequences that you need to be aware of before you sign on the line which is dotted.

 

[ProudMD]

As far as what recruiters tell you regarding milmed, ignore 80% of what they say. They know nothing about milmed. They are not doctors, they are salesmen. Frankly, you will find much better advice and information on this forum. Being lied to does happen. I guess it's our fault for believing them.



If you go to USUHS then you are not keeping all options open. You are severely limiting your specialty and geographical options when you go milmed. Additionally, you have a longer commitment than HPSP so you just doing your time and getting out is a tougher choice. USUHS is a great school and I respect my colleagues who went there but being milmed carries its own benefits/consequences that you need to be aware of before you sign on the line which is dotted.

Thanks for the advice.

I am aware of the benefits and challenges of attending USUHS and committing a minimum of 14 years to the Army. But for me, the benefits far out-weight the drawbacks, and the opportunity to become an Army officer is something I've wanted for a long time. Another draw is the close-knit community and sense of comradery that military members share with each other - that sense of belonging, something I wasn't able to find during my undergraduate years.

 

[WernickeDO]

Thanks for the advice.

I am aware of the benefits and challenges of attending USUHS and committing a minimum of 14 years to the Army. But for me, the benefits far out-weight the drawbacks, and the opportunity to become an Army officer is something I've wanted for a long time. Another draw is the close-knit community and sense of comradery that military members share with each other - that sense of belonging, something I wasn't able to find during my undergraduate years.

I understand and I hope you find it. Best of luck.

 

[ProudMD]

A quick update:

I managed to hit for the first time today the minimum passing number of pushups (40) and situps (50)!

Now I just have to finish each event under 2 minutes and continue to work on my run...

 

[deleted480308]

A quick update:

I managed to hit for the first time today the minimum passing number of pushups (40) and situps (50)!

Now I just have to finish each event under 2 minutes and continue to work on my run...

That's awesome, i just got a "push-up/sit-ups) app on my phone and have been running a lot. Still have a long way to go

 

[Kingfisher]

Thanks for the advice.

I am aware of the benefits and challenges of attending USUHS and committing a minimum of 14 years to the Army. But for me, the benefits far out-weight the drawbacks, and the opportunity to become an Army officer is something I've wanted for a long time. Another draw is the close-knit community and sense of comradery that military members share with each other - that sense of belonging, something I wasn't able to find during my undergraduate years.

I used to think the same way. In my humble opinion, its hard to really grasp how long that really is until you are done with residency and then stare up at the length of your chain. When I was starting this journey, the payback didn't phase me either. I was going to be a Doctor, after all, nothing else mattered. I have been in the Navy for a very long time. Long enough to see old broken down sailors who enlisted after me schedule their retirement physicals. Now, most of the younger crowd has a birthdate after my initial reporting date (thats the worst part). In 14 years the military will reinvent itself twice over. You will go through mult Presidents, countless COs, Dept heads, etc.. Your home address will change probably 5 or 6 times (if you are lucky). You will easily have the equivalent of a combined 4 solid months of suicide awareness/sexual assault/safety stand downs (maybe a bit of a stretch). Only God knows what conflict or two or three you will have to endure.

Keep the positive attitude. Hang on tight!

PS I will make sure to schedule my retirement physical with you. I am working on my list of 50 things seriously wrong with me that I have never had evaluated before. 20 min.......go

 

[ProudMD]

@Kingfisher

I'll PM you with a question.

 

[general0409]

Line officers will be your rater, intermediate rater, or senior rater you if you are in a line unit. Some of us believe that PT is just one facet of leadership, others think it is the only one. I have seen numerous officers receive nominations for prestigious assignments based on physical ability alone, and most units expect all officers to score greater than 270 with 90 points in each event, not to mention supporting training that units may have as part of their mission.
The Expert Field Medical Badge is very physically demanding and is expected of most Army medical personnel. Military schools such as airborne, air assault, Ranger are prerequisites for some assignments, and many medical opportunities are also available in the Ranger Regiment, Special Forces, and other special units in addition to all the conventional units in the Army.

It took me a long time to "figure out" the APFT, but you don't have to. There are many workout programs available online to improve. Personally, I like CrossFit and its derivative programs, and militaryathlete.com is also very well regarded and worth the money.

 

[DD214_DOC]

Army Regs explicity state that a medical corps officer paying back an obligation cannot be separated due to APFT failure.

 

[deleted480308]

Army Regs explicity state that a medical corps officer paying back an obligation cannot be separated due to APFT failure.

haha......"why you look so happy Lt.? You find a piece of candy in your pocket?.....you aren't getting out that easy, fatteh"

 

[DD214_DOC]

A GOMAR or two might work, though

 

[psychbender]

The Expert Field Medical Badge is very physically demanding and is expected of most Army medical personnel.

Say what, now? Yeah, I'm going to call you out on that bolded piece. I've known quite a few doctors in the Army, and most do not have the EFMB, nor are they expected to obtain it. The few that I know who do have it, were Academy/USUHS/prior service guys who got it prior to med school graduation, or spent time in an operational billet, and had a bunch of nonclinical time.

It is some spiffy looking chest bling, though.

 

[deuist]

The Expert Field Medical Badge is very physically demanding and is expected of most Army medical personnel.

You must mean for the enlisted medics, right? The vast majority of doctors aren't going to go that route---and why would they? The skills required for the badge are not needed for physicians as we're non-combatants anyway.

 

[ArmyTiger]

You must mean for the enlisted medics, right? The vast majority of doctors aren't going to go that route---and why would they? The skills required for the badge are not needed for physicians as we're non-combatants anyway.

LAZY DOCTORS KILL PATIENTS! NEWS AT 11.

 

[WernickeDO]

Bottom line up front: pass your APFT. The Army won't kick you out for failing it but they can and will interrupt your training/advancement in residency. If you are a TY who is re-applying, a failed APFT will only hurt you, whereas a 300 won't necessarily help you. While you're at it, pass height and weight too, or at least pass tape. I never make height/weight on account of the sheer density of my muscle mass, but I always pass tape

EFMB is a killer event and definitely something to be proud of, but I fail to see how it is applicable for physicians. It is a nice hooah badge to have though. On the other hand, other schools (Airborne, AA, Ranger) can open up assignments down the road.

 

[sonofva]

Bottom line up front: pass your APFT. The Army won't kick you out for failing it but they can and will interrupt your training/advancement in residency. If you are a TY who is re-applying, a failed APFT will only hurt you, whereas a 300 won't necessarily help you. While you're at it, pass height and weight too, or at least pass tape. I never make height/weight on account of the sheer density of my muscle mass, but I always pass tape

EFMB is a killer event and definitely something to be proud of, but I fail to see how it is applicable for physicians. It is a nice hooah badge to have though. On the other hand, other schools (Airborne, AA, Ranger) can open up assignments down the road.

Agreed. We were told that if we can't complete and pass out APFT by end of training, they will make time for us in the form of delay of any further training/assignment until we can pass ...

 

[WernickeDO]

Agreed. We were told that if we can't complete and pass out APFT by end of training, they will make time for us in the form of delay of any further training/assignment until we can pass ...

This is not an idle threat. I know an individual who had just this happen.

 

[general0409]

I've known quite a few doctors in the Army, and most do not have the EFMB, nor are they expected to obtain it. The few that I know who do have it, were Academy/USUHS/prior service guys who got it prior to med school graduation, or spent time in an operational billet, and had a bunch of nonclinical time.

I spoke from my limited point of view as an artillery officer, so I have never really worked with more than one or two Army physicians at a time. I'll agree that the EFMB is unnecessary for physicians. The physicians and PAs in my units have usually done the EFMB, but I'll acknowledge that I don't know that many Army doctors and their EFMB status.

However, if it were me, and I had 68Ws working for me, I would challenge myself to do it. Especially now that ACUs don't have branch insignia, an officer is an officer, and as the Army draws down, differentiating yourself from your peers matters. Any time your rating chain includes line officers, little things like that may or may not help, but they certainly don't hurt. My brigade commander (I'm in an operational unit) loves PT, so his priorities are my priorities.

Like @WernickeDO said, other military schools can open up opportunities. The minimum score for the course may be "the standard," but if there is a waiting list, a unit will usually send those with the best PT scores.

 

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

I spoke from my limited point of view as an artillery officer, so I have never really worked with more than one or two Army physicians at a time. I'll agree that the EFMB is unnecessary for physicians. The physicians and PAs in my units have usually done the EFMB, but I'll acknowledge that I don't know that many Army doctors and their EFMB status.

However, if it were me, and I had 68Ws working for me, I would challenge myself to do it. Especially now that ACUs don't have branch insignia, an officer is an officer, and as the Army draws down, differentiating yourself from your peers matters. Any time your rating chain includes line officers, little things like that may or may not help, but they certainly don't hurt. My brigade commander (I'm in an operational unit) loves PT, so his priorities are my priorities.

Like @WernickeDO said, other military schools can open up opportunities. The minimum score for the course may be "the standard," but if there is a waiting list, a unit will usually send those with the best PT scores.

This is the difference between operational medicine and hospital based medicine.

On the line you have combat arms officers in your rating chain who equate not falling out of formation during a squadron death run with one's abilities as a physician. On the line things like having an EFMB or being a 5-jump chump matter with regard to your OER because your line officer rater does not understand what you do and does not know how to evaluate your skills or abilities as a physician other than seeing you in every meeting, hearing you speak somewhat intelligently about "medical" issues, keeping the medical readiness stats green, and seeing some silver "bling" like an EFMB or air assault badge.

In the hospital your raters are (usually) other physicians. I know what my prospective ratees do. I know how to tell the difference between a good doctor that I would send my family members to and a charlatan. I can tell which of my residents I would be happy to have as a colleague and are competent enough to be sent out to a "one doc shop" upon graduation and which of my residents will need to be hidden in a bigger department so that other doctors can cover for their deficiencies. While I certainly respect the "fruit salad" or "tower of power" that a prior service doc carries around, It means precious little to me while evaluating his abilities as a physician and I rate him accordingly. I've also seen weak residents who applied for these type of courses and were lauded by the company for going above and beyond. If I were rating that resident I would have told him that choosing to spend time away from training in light of his deficiencies as a physician in training would be reflected by negative comments on his OER.

If you are operational, by all means, attend every course you can. It will make your commander think you are a stud and (IMO) it certainly beats seeing sick call and sitting through hours of command meetings week after week. If you are staff at a hospital you should strive to pass every PT test and not look like a fat slob in uniform if only because it keeps people off your back, gives you the moral high ground with other fat-bodies, and sets the appropriate example as a leader. But you need not be a PT stud. In my understaffed hospital department I would be seriously pissed at a colleague who went TDY to go play army for 3 weeks at jump school leaving his colleagues and pateints in the lurch--the mission of the hospital-based AMEDD is taking care of patients (despite what the line thinks).

 

[DD214_DOC]

How do they explain not advancing to the acgme?

 

[WernickeDO]

This is the difference between operational medicine and hospital based medicine.

On the line you have combat arms officers in your rating chain who equate not falling out of formation during a squadron death run with one's abilities as a physician. On the line things like having an EFMB or being a 5-jump chump matter with regard to your OER because your line officer rater does not understand what you do and does not know how to evaluate your skills or abilities as a physician other than seeing you in every meeting, hearing you speak somewhat intelligently about "medical" issues, keeping the medical readiness stats green, and seeing some silver "bling" like an EFMB or air assault badge.

In the hospital your raters are (usually) other physicians. I know what my prospective ratees do. I know how to tell the difference between a good doctor that I would send my family members to and a charlatan. I can tell which of my residents I would be happy to have as a colleague and are competent enough to be sent out to a "one doc shop" upon graduation and which of my residents will need to be hidden in a bigger department so that other doctors can cover for their deficiencies. While I certainly respect the "fruit salad" or "tower of power" that a prior service doc carries around, It means precious little to me while evaluating his abilities as a physician and I rate him accordingly. I've also seen weak residents who applied for these type of courses and were lauded by the company for going above and beyond. If I were rating that resident I would have told him that choosing to spend time away from training in light of his deficiencies as a physician in training would be reflected by negative comments on his OER.

If you are operational, by all means, attend every course you can. It will make your commander think you are a stud and (IMO) it certainly beats seeing sick call and sitting through hours of command meetings week after week. If you are staff at a hospital you should strive to pass every PT test and not look like a fat slob in uniform if only because it keeps people off your back, gives you the moral high ground with other fat-bodies, and sets the appropriate example as a leader. But you need not be a PT stud. In my understaffed hospital department I would be seriously pissed at a colleague who went TDY to go play army for 3 weeks at jump school leaving his colleagues and pateints in the lurch--the mission of the hospital-based AMEDD is taking care of patients (despite what the line thinks).

But those Army courses REALLY tie the room together...

 

[Ziehl-Neelsen]

 

[WernickeDO]

I believe in NOTHING.