Family-friendly specialties?

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doctor_may

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I'm currently early in my undergrad studies and curious about which specialties are more suitable for a woman who plans on having a family after residency.
I've shadowed a few doctors in internal medicine subspecialties and their hours seemed sensible but I didn't find them very interesting. I also shadowed a pathologist but since I'm still early in my career I was not familiar with all of the terminology and could not fully appreciate it, although I did like the concept of it all.

How tough is it to get into path? How about radiology?
What are some other suggestions for family friendly residencies and specialties?

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You would want to go with a job that tends to have the 9-5 kind of job. From what I have heard, Dermatology and Radiology seem to be like that.

But as you can imagine, the residencies that have the best kind of life are the most difficult to get into.
 
I'm being serious when I say, consider podiatry. I personally decided it wasn't for me but I shadowed a pod who was fantastic, the hours are great, and it's a surgical specialty.
 
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pathology has a tough job market right now

derm, ophthalmology, ENT, PM&R, family practice, plastics, nephrology and even urology can be pretty basic office hours type jobs...

EM has odd hours but less of them...be prepared to fight that circadian rhythm though
 
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pathology has a tough job market right now

derm, ophthalmology, ENT, PM&R, family practice, plastics, nephrology and even urology can be pretty basic office hours type jobs...

EM has odd hours but less of them...be prepared to fight that circadian rhythm though

The circadian rhythm is a nasty opponent. Although ear plugs, a sleeping mask and melatonin are helpful assistants (in order of helpfulness).
 
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Not sure how plastics and ENT got on this list but pediatrics didn't.

OP, you'd get much better advice on mom md or old premeds, although the fact that you're 19 makes this kind if premature.
 
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Not sure how plastics and ENT got on this list but pediatrics didn't.

OP, you'd get much better advice on mom md or old premeds, although the fact that you're 19 makes this kind if premature.

Also, http://www.mothersinmedicine.com/ is a nice forum. Aklark is right though, enjoy your drinking years :)
 
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I strongly recommend the book This Will Only Hurt a Bit by Michelle Au. It's about a woman's journey through medical school, residency, getting married, having a baby, trying to figure out a specialty, etc. The author is hilarious! Dr. Au ultimately decided on anesthesiology as her family-friendly specialty.
 
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image.jpg

This is from a UC Davis study on physician work hours.

Disclaimer: I'm pretty sure advances in vascular surgery have shortened the work hours of vascular surgeons (the data from this study is at least a few years old).
 
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The neurologists in my area all work 9-5. I'm not sure about what else might eat up their time, but many of the general neuro docs in the neuro MD/DO forum seem to have decent hours.
 
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Wow...are plastics and ENT really that lifestyle friendly post residency? I'm sure it varies drastically given the practice setting, but given that this data represents the median of hours worked by the surgeons it has to be pretty standard, right?

Edit: I realize that even post residency both fields are still physically and mentally taxing, and by no means easy, I just assumed that the hours worked would be much higher.
 
I'm currently early in my undergrad studies and curious about which specialties are more suitable for a woman who plans on having a family after residency.
I've shadowed a few doctors in internal medicine subspecialties and their hours seemed sensible but I didn't find them very interesting. I also shadowed a pathologist but since I'm still early in my career I was not familiar with all of the terminology and could not fully appreciate it, although I did like the concept of it all.

How tough is it to get into path? How about radiology?
What are some other suggestions for family friendly residencies and specialties?
"Family" medicine. ;) Hiyoooo!
 
I think what I would say is...

The hours don't suck as much as they used to, but they still suck more than most others, most of the time. Nobody should ever go into Vascular for "lifestyle".
I was hoping you would chime in.
Maybe the OP will fall in love with treating AAA's and carotid endarterectomies in med school. (I'm hoping some vascular surgeons work less than 70 hrs a week).
 
I was hoping you would chime in.
Maybe the OP will fall in love with treating AAA's and carotid endarterectomies in med school. (I'm hoping some vascular surgeons work less than 70 hrs a week).
I'm sure if you worked in a large practice you could work under 70 hours a week. However, the pay would be less as opposed to a solo-practioner.
 
I'm sure if you worked in a large practice you could work under 70 hours a week. However, the pay would be less as opposed to a solo-practioner.
The following quote is from an old post (2009). Maybe @mimelim can enlighten us.

The endovascular revolution has completely changed vascular surgery. What were once extremely painful procedures (for both patient and surgeon) are now much less invasive, and lead to better outcomes.

At my institution, the attendings start at 7:15 AM and tend to finish at 5 PM at the latest, and often as early as 4 PM. In the meantime, they can do 1 or 2 big cases (e.g., open AAA, aortobifem) or multiple smaller cases (e.g. angios with possible PTA and stenting, AVF/G, CEAs). Between cases, they see their patients on the floor, staff consults, or put in the random IVC filter that Trauma needs.

Then, they're done for the day, except for when they're on call, and then they're hopping. Even then, though, our interventions are so much less morbid than before that the patients tend to be pretty quiet on the floor. (Now, the ED will always call with an acutely thrombosed graft, so you'll have to see those.) Still, it's a far cry from Transplant.

Depending on the size of the group, that call can vary, which is part of the reason that being part of a bigger group can really improve lifestyle dramatically, though that's true of any specialty.

Adding to the improved lifestyle is the little known fact that vascular surgery is rapidly turning into one of the best compensated surgical subspecialties, 2nd only to neurosurgery.

Why? For whatever reason, those endovascular procedures tend to bring large reimbursements for the hospitals, and they pay the physicians richly for being able to provide those services. That IVC filter I mentioned above? It's $15k for a 10 minute procedure.

The one thing to remember, though, is that this is still SURGERY, and it's imperative during the training to be as confident and proficient as the general surgeons in terms of technical skill and dedication.


Here's the link to the thread:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/lifestyle-of-a-vascular-surgeon.449862/
 
The following quote is from an old post (2009). Maybe @mimelim can enlighten us.

The endovascular revolution has completely changed vascular surgery. What were once extremely painful procedures (for both patient and surgeon) are now much less invasive, and lead to better outcomes.

At my institution, the attendings start at 7:15 AM and tend to finish at 5 PM at the latest, and often as early as 4 PM. In the meantime, they can do 1 or 2 big cases (e.g., open AAA, aortobifem) or multiple smaller cases (e.g. angios with possible PTA and stenting, AVF/G, CEAs). Between cases, they see their patients on the floor, staff consults, or put in the random IVC filter that Trauma needs.

Then, they're done for the day, except for when they're on call, and then they're hopping. Even then, though, our interventions are so much less morbid than before that the patients tend to be pretty quiet on the floor. (Now, the ED will always call with an acutely thrombosed graft, so you'll have to see those.) Still, it's a far cry from Transplant.

Depending on the size of the group, that call can vary, which is part of the reason that being part of a bigger group can really improve lifestyle dramatically, though that's true of any specialty.

Adding to the improved lifestyle is the little known fact that vascular surgery is rapidly turning into one of the best compensated surgical subspecialties, 2nd only to neurosurgery.

Why? For whatever reason, those endovascular procedures tend to bring large reimbursements for the hospitals, and they pay the physicians richly for being able to provide those services. That IVC filter I mentioned above? It's $15k for a 10 minute procedure.

The one thing to remember, though, is that this is still SURGERY, and it's imperative during the training to be as confident and proficient as the general surgeons in terms of technical skill and dedication.


Here's the link to the thread:
http://forums.studentdoctor.net/threads/lifestyle-of-a-vascular-surgeon.449862/
That's very interesting. I guess vascular surgery has come a long ways in the past several. I didn't know they were reimbursed so well either.
 
That's very interesting. I guess vascular surgery has come a long ways in the past several. I didn't know they were reimbursed so well either.
Not sure if the ACA has impacted those
reimbursements though. Some of the older doctors I've spoken to have told me a few interesting tales about what vascular surgery used to be. It was like they were telling the medical version of a zombie movie. I'm happy to hear that the speciality has improved for both patients and doctors.
 
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Not sure if the ACA has impacted those
reimbursements though. Some of the older doctors I've spoken to have told me a few interesting tales about what vascular surgery used to be. It was like they were telling the medical version of a zombie movie. I'm happy to hear that the speciality has improved for both patients and doctors.
It's certainly not the ACA that's improving reimbursement- if anything it's reducing it. I'm not exactly sure what is the cause, but I'm glad they (vascular surgeons) are being reimbursed well.
 
Thanks all.

With vascular the residency is ~6 years. I don't see myself being a surgeon in general, either...
 
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It's certainly not the ACA that's improving reimbursement- if anything it's reducing it. I'm not exactly sure what is the cause, but I'm glad they (vascular surgeons) are being reimbursed well.
Lol. I was actually implying that the ACA may have reduced reimbursements since '09 (when this was posted). In the "ask a spine surgeon" thread, the ortho guy said that ideally, you should choose spine surgery (or insert other currently lucrative specialty) if you would still do it for an IM physician's salary. I'm all for having a good salary, but that's definitely an interesting take.
 
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Thanks all.

With vascular the residency is ~6 years. I don't see myself being a surgeon in general, either...
Sorry for derailing your thread with an ultra-busy (yet quite not as insane as it used to be) specialty:D

Edit: you can do an integrated 5 year vascular program.
 
Re: vascular surgery - @Cyberdyne 101 , @RJGOP

Lifestyle in Vascular surgery has a big range like most specialties. It is not unheard of for a full time surgeon working 45-50 hours a week. Most of the private practice guys can get down to that level if, #1 its what they want, #2 they are in a large group, #3 they are established (5+ years into practice). For various reasons they tend not to. (no judgement, just my observation). The biggest reason is obviously money. The more active you are, the more you get compensated. The second big reason though is simply the nature of the pathology. We don't really 'cure' many people. There is a reason I can be away for 3 months at another hospital and come back and know 2/3rds of the patients on the list. Your access patients and your limb salvage patients are going to keep coming back over and over. There is a lot of business to go around if you stay in one place to get established.

Yes, the field has changed in the last 10 years dramatically and it is still rapidly evolving. And yes, our interventions are tending toward the less invasive and shorter in terms of average procedure length. But, overall, endovascular procedures are LESS durable than their open counterparts. Which means patients return sooner. At the same time, our medicine colleagues are keeping the vasculopaths alive longer and longer and so we are operating on older and older and sicker and sicker patients.

None of our surgeons at the main hospital (6) work less than 60 hours a week. At least one works 80-100. He also does ~20-25 access cases plus an additional 6-10 other cases per week and has correspondingly large clinics. Not everyone is as operatively busy, but between research, administrative, educational and clinical duties, they all work pretty damn hard. Our outlying hospitals that have 1 or 2 vascular surgeons are much more 'community' based and are less busy. I don't really have a great feel for how much they work. The biggest problem with the endovascular revolution is that a lot of different people are getting in on the action because reimbursement is good. (or better than non-procedural stuff at least). Interventional radiology, interventional cardiology, interventional nephrology etc. They also (IC and IN) control the referral networks, so you have to play really nice most of the time. But, for the most part, none of them work weekends or take care of their own complications. The reimbursement for managing those complications is usually lower than what they got paid for the index operation (given the amount of work that is required to deal with it).

It is next to impossible to be a "solo practitioner". I don't think its even possible these days. There aren't THAT many emergencies, even at a quaternary referral center like we are. But, when they hit, they hit. Everyone gets ruptured AAA and cold legs. But, we also get the large DVT/PE for catheter directed thrombolysis and aortic dissections that will go at night, no matter when they show up. A given week of night call for me would be 1 night off, 3 completely quiet nights, 2 nights with a single case or a complex management and then 1 night of pedal to the metal, gogogogogogo all night long. Mine last week was 4 aortic dissections, 2 PEs and a cold leg. Between those 7, we went to the OR with 3 patients and at one point were running 2 rooms between the attending, fellow and myself. Not everyone gets that (or would ever want that), but somebody has to do it.

Bunch of quick thoughts, just sorta rambled :p.
 
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Re: vascular surgery - @Cyberdyne 101 , @RJGOP

Lifestyle in Vascular surgery has a big range like most specialties. It is not unheard of for a full time surgeon working 45-50 hours a week. Most of the private practice guys can get down to that level if, #1 its what they want, #2 they are in a large group, #3 they are established (5+ years into practice). For various reasons they tend not to. (no judgement, just my observation). The biggest reason is obviously money. The more active you are, the more you get compensated. The second big reason though is simply the nature of the pathology. We don't really 'cure' many people. There is a reason I can be away for 3 months at another hospital and come back and know 2/3rds of the patients on the list. Your access patients and your limb salvage patients are going to keep coming back over and over. There is a lot of business to go around if you stay in one place to get established.

Yes, the field has changed in the last 10 years dramatically and it is still rapidly evolving. And yes, our interventions are tending toward the less invasive and shorter in terms of average procedure length. But, overall, endovascular procedures are LESS durable than their open counterparts. Which means patients return sooner. At the same time, our medicine colleagues are keeping the vasculopaths alive longer and longer and so we are operating on older and older and sicker and sicker patients.

None of our surgeons at the main hospital (6) work less than 60 hours a week. At least one works 80-100. He also does ~20-25 access cases plus an additional 6-10 other cases per week and has correspondingly large clinics. Not everyone is as operatively busy, but between research, administrative, educational and clinical duties, they all work pretty damn hard. Our outlying hospitals that have 1 or 2 vascular surgeons are much more 'community' based and are less busy. I don't really have a great feel for how much they work. The biggest problem with the endovascular revolution is that a lot of different people are getting in on the action because reimbursement is good. (or better than non-procedural stuff at least). Interventional radiology, interventional cardiology, interventional nephrology etc. They also (IC and IN) control the referral networks, so you have to play really nice most of the time. But, for the most part, none of them work weekends or take care of their own complications. The reimbursement for managing those complications is usually lower than what they got paid for the index operation (given the amount of work that is required to deal with it).

It is next to impossible to be a "solo practitioner". I don't think its even possible these days. There aren't THAT many emergencies, even at a quaternary referral center like we are. But, when they hit, they hit. Everyone gets ruptured AAA and cold legs. But, we also get the large DVT/PE for catheter directed thrombolysis and aortic dissections that will go at night, no matter when they show up. A given week of night call for me would be 1 night off, 3 completely quiet nights, 2 nights with a single case or a complex management and then 1 night of pedal to the metal, gogogogogogo all night long. Mine last week was 4 aortic dissections, 2 PEs and a cold leg. Between those 7, we went to the OR with 3 patients and at one point were running 2 rooms between the attending, fellow and myself. Not everyone gets that (or would ever want that), but somebody has to do it.

Bunch of quick thoughts, just sorta rambled :p.
This is great information! Thanks!!
 
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I think what I would say is...

The hours don't suck as much as they used to, but they still suck more than most others, most of the time. Nobody should ever go into Vascular for "lifestyle".
I guess vascular surgeons still mostly come at night, mostly:D
 
Wow...are plastics and ENT really that lifestyle friendly post residency? I'm sure it varies drastically given the practice setting, but given that this data represents the median of hours worked by the surgeons it has to be pretty standard, right?

Edit: I realize that even post residency both fields are still physically and mentally taxing, and by no means easy, I just assumed that the hours worked would be much higher.

The key words for these and really any surgical field are "post residency". And that doesn't necessarily mean immediately post residency, as many practices want the new guy to pay his/her dues and take the lions share of the call for the early years. So if you are in a rush to have kids, these paths actually may not be ideal, the Above chart notwithstanding, because they only will get cushy later on. If you are fine with being an older parent, then these can be on the list. if you want a baby in your twenties, and dont have the ideal family support network, probably not your dream job.
 
I'm currently early in my undergrad studies and curious about which specialties are more suitable for a woman who plans on having a family after residency.
I've shadowed a few doctors in internal medicine subspecialties and their hours seemed sensible but I didn't find them very interesting. I also shadowed a pathologist but since I'm still early in my career I was not familiar with all of the terminology and could not fully appreciate it, although I did like the concept of it all.

How tough is it to get into path? How about radiology?
What are some other suggestions for family friendly residencies and specialties?

What about dads? Is this a sexist post? I want to work for a hospital that offers generous paternity leave and values ALL of it's employees.

I asked this same question about dads, and as a member of a diversity committee, about LGBT and intersex employees and leave policy (and work-life balance benefits). The relevant part of the answer I got:

The answer I got was, "ROAD:" radiology, ophthalmology, anaesthesiology, dermatology, the 9-5 specialties. However, I do caution that per a previous thread, 40% of all medical students end up in primary care.
 
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Sorry for derailing your thread with an ultra-busy (yet quite not as insane as it used to be) specialty:D

Edit: you can do an integrated 5 year vascular program.

Oh! So no general surgery residency to worry about?
 
What about dads? Is this a sexist post? I want to work for a hospital that offers generous paternity leave and values ALL of it's employees.

I asked this same question about dads, and as a member of a diversity committee, about LGBT and intersex employees and leave policy (and work-life balance benefits). The relevant part of the answer I got:

The answer I got was, "ROAD:" radiology, ophthalmology, anaesthesiology, dermatology, the 9-5 specialties. However, I do caution that per a previous thread, 40% of all medical students end up in primary care.

Most of primary care is 9-5 working Mon-Fri and the call being on phone(don't have to show up places), unless you want to do OB/see your own hospital patients (which is becoming less popular).

Hospitalists (which is primary care training) usually work longer shifts, but in blocks. Places I interviewed at went on 12hr schedules, one did 7 days on, 7 off, others 3 on/3 off, others 4 on/4 off. Every one of these places had a nocturnalist - so your shift was only in the day, no night shifts.

ER is tougher - often you will end up "swing shift" unless the group also has a nocturnalist (not as popular in ER as in Hospital floors).
 
What accounts for such an enormous margin for neurosurgeons?
 
Whenever I think of vascular surgery I can't help but think Tommy Lee Jones will eventually be trying to catch me while I'm trying to find a one armed man...
 
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What is it with doctors and marrying Sela Ward anyway?
Well, her character didn't have such a good outcome in The Fugitive.
And was she ever married to House (on the show)?
I can't think of other examples.

And supposedly, Alec Baldwin was the initial choice to play Richard Kimble. It would have been an interesting contrast from his character in Malice.
 
The width of the given interval for hours
It is the widest on the graph. It is not surprising that some neurosurgeons work a large quantity of hours (ie towards the far right of the chart). But at the same time, the interval does demonstrate a pretty substantial range to the left of the "family-practice indicator." Perhaps some neurosurgeons significantly reduce their hours later in their careers.
I'm definitely curious as well. I think I'll post this question in the "ask a neurosurgeon thread."
 
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