Family Med Salaries and the Future of the Specialty

[FutureDO2016]

Hello, I was just wondering if what I heard was true from a new resident I met. She said most places in northern IL/Chicago area were offering family med doctors salaries around 100-130K due to the saturation of docs around there from all the 6 medical schools in the area/residency programs. Do family med docs get paid that little? I thought starting salaries were around 180K and then I know in less desirable rural areas, the salaries are more around 200-250K with sign-on bonuses. What are the starting salaries in suburban or urban areas within 1 hour of big cities like in the midwest?

Also, I was worried about the future of family medicine...are PA's and NP's going to take over like I notice the minute clinics in Walgreens and CVS. Will urgent care clinics and other places where Family docs work be taken over by PAs and NPs because hospitals and places can pay them less? I know talking to family docs, they said while they love their job (some don't), there are declining reimbursement costs, skyrocketing overhead costs, high insurance rates and it's simply hard to run your own practice. Most have been bought out by a hospital but then they have to meet certain requirements and follow certain rules.

What is the outlook for family medicine?

By the way, I still am going for family medicine, but just worried about the future. After 11 years of training following college+med school+residency, I would potentially want a good salary to raise a family and a live a decent lifestyle that I think I worked hard for after living off loans and studying all these years.

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[FutureDO2016]

I'm from that area and know family docs making close to 300. In fact I have family members who just hired new FM docs for over 225 as a base. This is in a highly desirable location. The resident is delusional

No one is going to replace physicians, in any field. You read the internet too much...

Haha good to know that resident was not giving accurate info! While no one is going to replace the physician, I can see PAs and NPs trying to overtake primary care...Walgreens, Walmart and CVS have no problem hiring them for their in store clinics.

 

[67552931811]

Haha good to know that resident was not giving accurate info! While no one is going to replace the physician, I can see PAs and NPs trying to overtake primary care...Walgreens, Walmart and CVS have no problem hiring them for their in store clinics.

Have you ever seen the people at those things? I sincerely have 0 worries for anyone in PC. Even if those places tried to expand, the **** would hit the fan so fast.

 

[W19]

Have you ever seen the people at those things? I sincerely have 0 worries for anyone in PC. Even if those places tried to expand, the **** would hit the fan so fast.

The public does not know how inept a lot of these people are so you shouldn't let you guard off. I think we make mistake by saying: Oh well! they will never be able to replace us. Also, by flooding the market with NP/PA, they are affecting FM/peds/psych and even IM salary to some extent. Look at what has happened to anesthesia.

 

[FutureDO2016]

The public does not know how inept a lot of these people are so you shouldn't let you guard off. I think we make mistake by saying: Oh well! they will never be able to replace us. Also, by flooding the market with NP/PA, they are affecting FM/peds/psych and even IM salary to some extent. Look at what has happened to anesthesia.

I know nurse anesthetists and anesthesiology assistants are working in some states under an anesthesiologist but still I'm pretty sure anesthesiologists still get paid well like above 300K. Also AAs can only work in certain states.

 

[W19]

I know nurse anesthetists and anesthesiology assistants are working in some states under an anesthesiologist but still I'm pretty sure anesthesiologists still get paid well like above 300K. Also AAs can only work in certain states.

My point was CRNA schools are flooding the market with CRNAs and that put some pressure on wages... 10 years ago, anesthesiologists could write their own ticket in term of wages... They were getting 350k+/years right out of residency with 8-10 weeks vacation. These things are not happening anymore.

 

[SLC]

In the end, you gotta do what you love. If you do, then the rest has a way of working itself out.

 

[67552931811]

The public does not know how inept a lot of these people are so you shouldn't let you guard off. I think we make mistake by saying: Oh well! they will never be able to replace us. Also, by flooding the market with NP/PA, they are affecting FM/peds/psych and even IM salary to some extent. Look at what has happened to anesthesia.

Who said anything about the public?

What are you talking about? You mean how amcs are using the same model that purged EM? Yet, no one talks about EM even though it's in debatably a worse position?

My point was CRNA schools are flooding the market with CRNAs and that put some pressure on wages... 10 years ago, anesthesiologists could write their own ticket in term of wages... They were getting 350k+/years right out of residency with 8-10 weeks vacation. These things are not happening anymore.

Again, what are you talking about? I know fresh anesthesiologists making these metrics in a very desirable area

 

[GUH]

Who said anything about the public?

What are you talking about? You mean how amcs are using the same model that purged EM? Yet, no one talks about EM even though it's in debatably a worse position?

Again, what are you talking about? I know fresh anesthesiologists making these metrics in a very desirable area

"I know someone" is not really strong evidence of an overall trend, especially without more details.

If we are going to go off of anecdotes, I could tell you truthfully that most of the FM docs I've met in person (employed and in private practice) have told me that mid levels will definitely be a cause of future downward pressure on wages in states with laws which allow token or no physician oversight of mid level practice.

 

[67552931811]

"I know someone" is not really strong evidence of an overall trend, especially without more details.

If we are going to go off of anecdotes, I could tell you truthfully that most of the FM docs I've met in person (employed and in private practice) have told me that mid levels will definitely be a cause of future downward pressure on wages in states with laws which allow token or no physician oversight of mid level practice.

I'm referencing knowledge based off of friends and or family members who are deeply involved in physician hiring in one or more regions of our country. I couldn't care less if you or anyone else on this anonymous website believes me or not.

Also, don't put quotes around words I never said- thanks

 

[Pisiform]

My sis just got a job near schaumberg and she making close to 250 with good hrs

 

[FutureDO2016]

If we are going to go off of anecdotes, I could tell you truthfully that most of the FM docs I've met in person (employed and in private practice) have told me that mid levels will definitely be a cause of future downward pressure on wages in states with laws which allow token or no physician oversight of mid level practice.[/QUOTE]

This is my concern as well...I believe general IM doctors working as hospitalist positions are safe but can family med docs work as hospitalists in big cities and suburbs? I know they can in rural towns.

 

[Pisiform]

If we are going to go off of anecdotes, I could tell you truthfully that most of the FM docs I've met in person (employed and in private practice) have told me that mid levels will definitely be a cause of future downward pressure on wages in states with laws which allow token or no physician oversight of mid level practice.

This is my concern as well...I believe general IM doctors working as hospitalist positions are safe but can family med docs work as hospitalists in big cities and suburbs? I know they can in rural towns.[/QUOTE]

Yes they can. There is a hospitalist fellowship for familymed but you dont even need that to work as a hospitalist

 

[kp11]

@ChiTownBHawks , when you talk about EM being purged, could you please expand on this (EM is my top, followed by Anesthesia, then FM)?

@FutureDO2016 , there is some worry that salaries are going to go down for FM. Just look at Oregon allowing PA's to practice as a PCP and get compensated the same as a doctor by insurance companies (legislation middle of last year I think). It doesn't mean that the insurance company necessarily will, but it is an option.
That being said, take a deep breath. Healthcare is changing, but there won't be a loss of FM physicians. The idea of a private practice PCP outside of a Managed care/large group/hospital might be fading, but FM's themselves should be relatively fine. Most of the legislation being passed in the Healthcare sector is trying to focus more on quality outcome (not FFS) and prevention (away from specialists) with monetary incentives to keep readmit rates to the hospital low.
And let the minute clinics stay open with PA's for minor skin rashes and booster shots. The companies running them know that if they take on anything that resembles continuity of care, they become liable to insurance companies... which costs too much money. And remember, you aren't going to medical school to practice at Walgreens, WalMart, etc.

...So that's my pep talk. hope it helps! (now back to Pathology )

 

[67552931811]

@ChiTownBHawks , when you talk about EM being purged, could you please expand on this (EM is my top, followed by Anesthesia, then FM)?

@FutureDO2016 , there is some worry that salaries are going to go down for FM. Just look at Oregon allowing PA's to practice as a PCP and get compensated the same as a doctor by insurance companies (legislation middle of last year I think). It doesn't mean that the insurance company necessarily will, but it is an option.
That being said, take a deep breath. Healthcare is changing, but there won't be a loss of FM physicians. The idea of a private practice PCP outside of a Managed care/large group/hospital might be fading, but FM's themselves should be relatively fine. Most of the legislation being passed in the Healthcare sector is trying to focus more on quality outcome (not FFS) and prevention (away from specialists) with monetary incentives to keep readmit rates to the hospital low.
And let the minute clinics stay open with PA's for minor skin rashes and booster shots. The companies running them know that if they take on anything that resembles continuity of care, they become liable to insurance companies... which costs too much money. And remember, you aren't going to medical school to practice at Walgreens, WalMart, etc.

...So that's my pep talk. hope it helps! (now back to Pathology )

the rape of emergency medicine for starters.

 

[NurWollen]

.

 

[kp11]

@ChiTownBHawks -thanks for the source. Starting in on the PDF version tonight.

 

[W19]

the rape of emergency medicine for starters.

EM is on the rise right now because there is a shortage of ED physicians... I know these AMCs will attempt to turn EM just they did to anesthesia, but it has not happened yet (or at least to the degree it's happening in anesthesia). 350k-400k salary is the norm for EM docs now... In fact, I see many job postings where I live that have partnership track with salary in the 400k for 12 shift/month... The complaint you hear often from EM docs is that they don't have a predictable schedule.

 

[deleted245139]

the rape of emergency medicine for starters.

Excellent book but read it thru to the end.
Mid levels in the Ed serve to decompress the inevitable deluge of low acuity cases. They serve to make sure that the waiting room in total is seen. Sickest patient in my Ed? The person in the waiting room. Mistriage happens sometimes, yes, but that's why they are supervised. Plenty of level 4 sore throats turn out to be a PTA.

Crna is a different beast in a different world. Combine their militant lobbying with a profession that allows proliferation and it can be a bad combination. The crna will tube and manage a case.... No mid level in the Ed is popping in central lines and chest tubes on a crashing trauma patient.

Point is, apples and oranges. Will the ED bubble burst ? Without a doubt... Some day. Esp with payment restructuring via the ACA. When that will happen, and if, and in what capacity is anyone's guess with a new election looming, but something to consider. I'm not saying your wrong, just that the problem isn't exactly as you've painted it

 

[phenobb]

Excellent book but read it thru to the end.
Mid levels in the Ed serve to decompress the inevitable deluge of low acuity cases. They serve to make sure that the waiting room in total is seen. Sickest patient in my Ed? The person in the waiting room. Mistriage happens sometimes, yes, but that's why they are supervised. Plenty of level 4 sore throats turn out to be a PTA.

Crna is a different beast in a different world. Combine their militant lobbying with a profession that allows proliferation and it can be a bad combination. The crna will tube and manage a case.... No mid level in the Ed is popping in central lines and chest tubes on a crashing trauma patient.

Point is, apples and oranges. Will the ED bubble burst ? Without a doubt... Some day. Esp with payment restructuring via the ACA. When that will happen, and if, and in what capacity is anyone's guess with a new election looming, but something to consider. I'm not saying your wrong, just that the problem isn't exactly as you've painted it

I think the ACA has been great for the ER docs. Lots of people especially in the individual market lost access to cheap plans - or simply choose to pay a penalty- and now use the ED as their primary doctor.

As for midlevels, from a surgery/consultant perspective, I'm fine with them working up patients and presenting to the ED doc. I don't plan to accept consults/calls from them though.

 

[DrLefty]

So I'm not sure if I'm late to the party, but I can share the info I got just a few weeks ago from the HR manager of a family medicine clinic.
In what I would consider a not so rural or underserved area in Western Washington, they are offering 190k starting salary with a 50k sign on bonus, and a 100k advance on your salary to pay down your loans, with an option for partnership. I don't know the ins and outs of the clinic, but it seems like family medicine is still in fairly high demand win what seems to be a good salary. I think with the way that healthcare is going, the Docs seeing the largest pay DECREASE are the highly specialized that aren't going to be making 500k a year anymore.

 

[Seth Joo]

So I'm not sure if I'm late to the party, but I can share the info I got just a few weeks ago from the HR manager of a family medicine clinic.
In what I would consider a not so rural or underserved area in Western Washington, they are offering 190k starting salary with a 50k sign on bonus, and a 100k advance on your salary to pay down your loans, with an option for partnership. I don't know the ins and outs of the clinic, but it seems like family medicine is still in fairly high demand win what seems to be a good salary. I think with the way that healthcare is going, the Docs seeing the largest pay DECREASE are the highly specialized that aren't going to be making 500k a year anymore.

Its definitely the specialists who are taking the pay cut, but the only Family Doctors making over 200k a year work in smaller regions, the ones who work in major metro regions do not earn that kind of money, its supply and demand, there is no shortage of doctors in big US cities, typical FM Doc Pay is 150 to 175k a year.

 

[JustPlainBill]

Its definitely the specialists who are taking the pay cut, but the only Family Doctors making over 200k a year work in smaller regions, the ones who work in major metro regions do not earn that kind of money, its supply and demand, there is no shortage of doctors in big US cities, typical FM Doc Pay is 150 to 175k a year.

Don't be so quick on the draw there --- I'm working in a major US metroplex in the South complete with 2 medical schools and am making over $200K, outpatient only, no peds, no Ob, as are several of my colleagues;

This argument has been going on for years -- when I started med school there was the concern that FM was going the way of the dodo bird thanks to midlevels -- that was 10 years ago; yes, there's encroachment and some of the midlevel organizations have better lobbyists --

Swing over to the FM forum or do a thread search -- the general feeling is that if you think you can be replaced by a mid-level (i.e. your skills are so lacking that you don't bring value to your organization), then you probably should be concerned. This is why we read/memorize Robbins/Cecil's/Katzung, spend the hours of being up all night on call, etc.....because we're physicians -- not nurses and not assistants ---

 

[FutureDO2016]

Don't be so quick on the draw there --- I'm working in a major US metroplex in the South complete with 2 medical schools and am making over $200K, outpatient only, no peds, no Ob, as are several of my colleagues;

This argument has been going on for years -- when I started med school there was the concern that FM was going the way of the dodo bird thanks to midlevels -- that was 10 years ago; yes, there's encroachment and some of the midlevel organizations have better lobbyists --

Swing over to the FM forum or do a thread search -- the general feeling is that if you think you can be replaced by a mid-level (i.e. your skills are so lacking that you don't bring value to your organization), then you probably should be concerned. This is why we read/memorize Robbins/Cecil's/Katzung, spend the hours of being up all night on call, etc.....because we're physicians -- not nurses and not assistants ---

Good to know family docs can make over 200K in cities as well! I mean in the end, you have to do whatever you love and if it's primary care family medicine, then so be it. And you have to see yourself practicing for the next 20-40 years. After 11 years of training (including 3 years of residency), I would like to have a good salary (at least 200K) and I would think anything less than 150K is not a lot for the amount of work there is. I know pharmacists (after 6 years of schooling post high school) make around $120K without residency training and dentists make around $150K after 8 years. With crazy overhead costs, staff salaries, and declining reimbursements, I know my primary care doc (big midwest city) is always rushing to see more patients and make a decent salary.

It's crazy how many preceptors and doctors have swayed me against pursing family medicine and recommended a higher paying specialty or another career entirely...There will be a shortage of primary care docs until salaries increase and more students decide to go into primary care without shooting for radiology, ortho, anesthesia or an IM subspecialty. Right now EM is the popular specialty, but I feel like that changes every 5 years with ROAD specialties remaining popular now and 20 years ago.

However, thinking about all this gives me a headache so I just am going to do what I love and let the future happen.

 

[Seth Joo]

Wrong. FM docs in Chicago are making 200K+ a year. It increases as you move out to the burbs.

FM faculty at rush are salaried at about 180

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Family_Physician_/_Doctor/Salary

Nationally, there seems to be a wide range in pay, the average seems to be about 150k.

 

[yanks26dmb]

Payscale is a terrible resource for physician salary...and 150 is low.

 

[Seth Joo]

Payscale is a terrible resource for physician salary...and 150 is low.

You can look at some physician headhunter websites too.

 

[FamDoc97]

Hello, I was just wondering if what I heard was true from a new resident I met. She said most places in northern IL/Chicago area were offering family med doctors salaries around 100-130K due to the saturation of docs around there from all the 6 medical schools in the area/residency programs. Do family med docs get paid that little? I thought starting salaries were around 180K and then I know in less desirable rural areas, the salaries are more around 200-250K with sign-on bonuses. What are the starting salaries in suburban or urban areas within 1 hour of big cities like in the midwest?

Also, I was worried about the future of family medicine...are PA's and NP's going to take over like I notice the minute clinics in Walgreens and CVS. Will urgent care clinics and other places where Family docs work be taken over by PAs and NPs because hospitals and places can pay them less? I know talking to family docs, they said while they love their job (some don't), there are declining reimbursement costs, skyrocketing overhead costs, high insurance rates and it's simply hard to run your own practice. Most have been bought out by a hospital but then they have to meet certain requirements and follow certain rules.

What is the outlook for family medicine?

By the way, I still am going for family medicine, but just worried about the future. After 11 years of training following college+med school+residency, I would potentially want a good salary to raise a family and a live a decent lifestyle that I think I worked hard for after living off loans and studying all these years.

Dismal. NPs taking over.

 

[NurWollen]

Dismal. NPs taking over.

Sounds like there's an easy enough solution. Get out of Chicago. Or work as a hospitalist for a while while you pay down your loans.

 

[NontradCA]

EM is on the rise right now because there is a shortage of ED physicians... I know these AMCs will attempt to turn EM just they did to anesthesia, but it has not happened yet (or at least to the degree it's happening in anesthesia). 350k-400k salary is the norm for EM docs now... In fact, I see many job postings where I live that have partnership track with salary in the 400k for 12 shift/month... The complaint you hear often from EM docs is that they don't have a predictable schedule.

I wouldn't count on that by the time were practicing.

 

[cbrons]

The public does not know how inept a lot of these people are so you shouldn't let you guard off. I think we make mistake by saying: Oh well! they will never be able to replace us. Also, by flooding the market with NP/PA, they are affecting FM/peds/psych and even IM salary to some extent. Look at what has happened to anesthesia.

A much more realistic assessment...

 

[Rekt]

I wouldn't count on that by the time were practicing.

This. You can pretty much guarantee that EM salaries will significantly decline. You can thank CMGs.

 

[67552931811]

This. You can pretty much guarantee that EM salaries will significantly decline. You can thank CMGs.

I mean everyone's salaries are going to significantly decline. You can thank....

........

 

[W19]

This. You can pretty much guarantee that EM salaries will significantly decline. You can thank CMGs.

Let them enjoy the gravy for the time being... Reading some of the threads in the EM forum, you would think that any EM doc making <400k/year is underpaid...

 

[user3]

Let them enjoy the gravy for the time being...

Yup...gotta stay positive

 

[kp11]

To add to the discussion, we just had a FP residency director come and talk at our school, and he seems to think that $190K+ is the rough starting out salary for a board-certified FP doc working 5 days a week. If you add in ER moonlighting once a week (IMO a bit aggressive) then you should be around low-to-mid 300's.
As far as the $150K number goes that we all see on payscale/salary.com/whatever is skewed so much due to physicians working part time (for personal reasons, namely citing that it is a solid career choice for working mothers who want to work 3-4 days per week).

Just thought I'd share.

 

[Mad Jack]

My point was CRNA schools are flooding the market with CRNAs and that put some pressure on wages... 10 years ago, anesthesiologists could write their own ticket in term of wages... They were getting 350k+/years right out of residency with 8-10 weeks vacation. These things are not happening anymore.

You should keep in mind that the majority of PAs and NPs are as averse to becoming PCPs as physicians are.

 

[67552931811]

To add to the discussion, we just had a FP residency director come and talk at our school, and he seems to think that $190K+ is the rough starting out salary for a board-certified FP doc working 5 days a week. If you add in ER moonlighting once a week (IMO a bit aggressive) then you should be around low-to-mid 300's.
As far as the $150K number goes that we all see on payscale/salary.com/whatever is skewed so much due to physicians working part time (for personal reasons, namely citing that it is a solid career choice for working mothers who want to work 3-4 days per week).

Just thought I'd share.

Not only this but it seems to be that most physician pay scales are skewed towards academic physicians who take them. Even then I know from first hand experience that a lot of them, within FP, are laughably incorrect

 

[user3]

To add to the discussion, we just had a FP residency director come and talk at our school, and he seems to think that $190K+ is the rough starting out salary for a board-certified FP doc working 5 days a week. If you add in ER moonlighting once a week (IMO a bit aggressive) then you should be around low-to-mid 300's.
As far as the $150K number goes that we all see on payscale/salary.com/whatever is skewed so much due to physicians working part time (for personal reasons, namely citing that it is a solid career choice for working mothers who want to work 3-4 days per week).

Just thought I'd share.

Do you mean low to mid 200's? Low to mid 300's sounds pretty high for FP even with moonlighting, but hopefully I am mistaken.

 

[W19]

^Probably mid 200's....

 

[kp11]

Do you mean low to mid 200's? Low to mid 300's sounds pretty high for FP even with moonlighting, but hopefully I am mistaken.

It seemed high to me as well, but he was talking about the 300's. His add on figure was $150/hour (probably top end for a FP doc in EM) once a week for 12 hours. I don't plan on working 6 days a week for the rest of my life, so 200K would be alright by me.

 

[kenjixshadow]

It seemed high to me as well, but he was talking about the 300's. His add on figure was $150/hour (probably top end for a FP doc in EM) once a week for 12 hours. I don't plan on working 6 days a week for the rest of my life, so 200K would be alright by me.

$150 x 12hrs x 52 weeks = $93,600 pre-tax. With it, he must be taking some additional gigs to hit that 300k. The money is good, but that director is looking for a quick burnt-out. Not worth it, imo.

Let them enjoy the gravy for the time being... Reading some of the threads in the EM forum, you would think that any EM doc making <400k/year is underpaid...

EM is on the rise right now because there is a shortage of ED physicians... I know these AMCs will attempt to turn EM just they did to anesthesia, but it has not happened yet (or at least to the degree it's happening in anesthesia). 350k-400k salary is the norm for EM docs now... In fact, I see many job postings where I live that have partnership track with salary in the 400k for 12 shift/month... The complaint you hear often from EM docs is that they don't have a predictable schedule.

If EM does get hit and the compensation rate goes down, I predict the salary will still be around 300k-ish. I don't see mid-fields replace EPs anytime soon.

 

[W19]

I saw my cousin tax filling in 2011 and he made over 350k as a IM doc... I talked to him earlier today and he told me he has been making around 400k/year since then.... However, he does not pay rent for his clinic since he purchased the place cash... His clinic is open from 8am-5pm M-Th and 8am-12 noon on Friday. He is also the medical director of a nursing home where he got 3k/month stipend, and he also got to see some medicaid/medicare patients there...

The guy also pays his wife a nice salary (80k/year) as the clinic office manager.

You can make money as a primary care doc if you have some good business sense...

 

[Jamers]

Hello, I was just wondering if what I heard was true from a new resident I met. She said most places in northern IL/Chicago area were offering family med doctors salaries around 100-130K due to the saturation of docs around there from all the 6 medical schools in the area/residency programs. Do family med docs get paid that little? I thought starting salaries were around 180K and then I know in less desirable rural areas, the salaries are more around 200-250K with sign-on bonuses. What are the starting salaries in suburban or urban areas within 1 hour of big cities like in the midwest?

Also, I was worried about the future of family medicine...are PA's and NP's going to take over like I notice the minute clinics in Walgreens and CVS. Will urgent care clinics and other places where Family docs work be taken over by PAs and NPs because hospitals and places can pay them less? I know talking to family docs, they said while they love their job (some don't), there are declining reimbursement costs, skyrocketing overhead costs, high insurance rates and it's simply hard to run your own practice. Most have been bought out by a hospital but then they have to meet certain requirements and follow certain rules.

What is the outlook for family medicine?

By the way, I still am going for family medicine, but just worried about the future. After 11 years of training following college+med school+residency, I would potentially want a good salary to raise a family and a live a decent lifestyle that I think I worked hard for after living off loans and studying all these years.

The NP issue and more so the DNP issue is going to create a lot more issues in the future. I feel we let the issue get too big and now we have nurses calling themselves doctors with their own practice rights after only minimal training. They often cite "better patient relations" and "filling a need" as their reason for existence. The care I see them render, however, is akin to 4th year medical student or maybe a very poor intern. Only in this country would we allow our care to be rendered by inferior care providers instead of doing what is best: creating more doctors. Unfortunately my young friends, medical care is driven by money: DNPs are cheaper than you are.


As for your first question, my wife is an FP, she is military and makes more than 130K so I would hope you can find a job in the private sector that makes more than that.

 

[Jamers]

$150 x 12hrs x 52 weeks = $93,600 pre-tax. With it, he must be taking some additional gigs to hit that 300k. The money is good, but that director is looking for a quick burnt-out. Not worth it, imo.


If EM does get hit and the compensation rate goes down, I predict the salary will still be around 300k-ish. I don't see mid-fields replace EPs anytime soon.

It’s going to be very hard for DNPs to replace, fully, a board certified EM physician in a large or moderate sized ED. The special training that is required to take care of complicated patients cannot be completed in their short "doctor" courses. That being said, they can, and likely are already in some states, working in smaller EDs (the same as FP and IM doctors). While it may cost less to train a "doctor" nurse, I don't think any CEO wants to deal with the possibility of lawsuits/bad publicity after inappropriate care is rendered to a complicated patient; remember, when something really bad happens in an ED it’s not just the lawsuit to worry about, it’s also the newspapers/new stations. Right now, the NPs I work with work alongside PAs and require my sign off on all patients.

 

[Relentlessrook18]

Everyone gives an estimated income for family physicians, but how many patients do you have to see for that kind of income? I am very interested in family med, but if I can't spend a good amount of time with the patients, then it makes me less interested in the specialty. The doc I have shadowed sees about 30 patients per day. I feel like that amount of time with the patients does not really allow me to get to know them very well! Can anyone give me an estimated income in a Southeast suburban area with a number of patients per day?

Thank you!

 

[Postictal Raiden]

Everyone gives an estimated income for family physicians, but how many patients do you have to see for that kind of income? I am very interested in family med, but if I can't spend a good amount of time with the patients, then it makes me less interested in the specialty. The doc I have shadowed sees about 30 patients per day. I feel like that amount of time with the patients does not really allow me to get to know them very well! Can anyone give me an estimated income in a Southeast suburban area with a number of patients per day?

Thank you!

Medicare pays ~$70 for a routine visit. Assuming your overhead is 50%, your take home would be ~$35 per patient. At this pace, you can see 20 pts a day, work 5 days a week, take 4 weeks off per year, and generate ~170k/year of income.

 

[asdf123g]

Why would anyone wanna go into EM should the salary drop to say 300k? At that point I dont think the long hours, detriment to your health, family, etc would be worth it to very many people (some wouldn't mind ofc and would still enter the field). I can't see that salary decreasing much; but then again, what do i know.

 

[Ddrumem]

Your idea of EM is a little skewed. In EM you can work as little or as much as you want with the average being around 30-35 hours a week. EM salary is also location dependent. Big city equals less and BFE making well over 400s in some areas. With those hours, pay, no call, no clinic, high flexibility sounds good to me. I may be biased since that's what I'm going into though.

 

[Makati2008]

Why would anyone wanna go into EM should the salary drop to say 300k? At that point I dont think the long hours, detriment to your health, family, etc would be worth it to very many people (some wouldn't mind ofc and would still enter the field). I can't see that salary decreasing much; but then again, what do i know.

I'll take my 300k, and be off 18days a month. Lol. It's all relative. I'm looking at a gig paying almost 450k(50k of that is for loan repayment). Personally I'm working 20years and then doing solely Locums a few times a year or working two days a week in a rural ed if possible. This is all dependent on salaries not crashing of course.