Discussion in 'Radiology' started by hans19, May 19, 2006.
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Already HP'd surgery.
I was similar to you, bottom quartile M1M2, did well M3 with Hs in Medicine and Neurology, no research, matched at my number one. You'll be fine especially if you get a good radiology letter of rec.
where are you interested in going? Should be competitive for TX programs; UTSW may be a lil tough, though.
he'll be fine without that too lol
i would say competitive at solid mid-tier to upper mid-tier
Is your med sch in CA?
1) depends on above, but I think you'd be competitive for LLU, UCD, and the community programs.
2) very good.
I am from California. My school is on the east coast.
I'd apply to ~40 programs including all the CA ones and broadly in other places you're interested in going. CA has been really tough the last couple years.
I am considering Radiology. I was interested after rotating in it at the beginning of 3rd year, but then step 1 results came and I was crushed. I did significantly better in Step 2, yeah not in the 240s like my practice tests but still improved. I was steered away from Radiology for a while now, after reading a institution website that said, "No matter how nice or interested you are, if you don't have the numbers, don't bother and look elsewhere." (Same person says this specialty has a 100% match). The past couple of years a few people have said I should still pursue it and that each residency director has its own requirements. Then I found out that there were so many open spots post match. I decided to revisit the interest.
Step 1: Mid 210s
Step 2: 229/99
First two years Mid-high 3rd quartile (not bad considering 3-4 pts separate each quartile )
Third year: All P. There is no Honors Pass in my school.
Rotated in 6 weeks of radiology, going to do 2 weeks more plus other informal work in the department.
Letters: If I do pursue Rays, my program director is willing to write me a letter. I also have a letter from a Director in Internal Medicine. I will try to either get another letter from my MS4 clerkships or my externship.
I am finishing up my MBA (part of the MD/MBA program at my school).
I have leadership experiences in medical school and Business school.
Limited research experience.
Spoke to the Residency Director of my home program and he told me that I should hang around the radiology department, get to know faculty, potentially do a case report/project or so. Also apply broadly. It was a very encouraging meeting that reawakened my interest.
I am not looking at a top tier or even mid tier academic program. I live in Florida, which has 6 programs. I am going to do an externship in July/August in one of the programs I am interested in in the state. When I do this externship I will speak to the PD there as well. Ideally I just want to stay in my home school, but if I take this route I will apply to at least 60 programs.
I'd say out of the programs in Florida, you'd stand the strongest chance at where you network the most and then Florida Hospital or UF-Jacksonville. I believe UF-Jacksonville had some open spots this year and I'm not sure about the others. I could be way off base, so take it all with a grain of salt. Florida Hospital will only be on its third match for this application cycle. I've heard nothing but good things about the program so far.
Naturally, you have an uphill battle but weirder things have happened than matching with below average stats. While you may want to stick to Florida, you should apply as broadly as possible (which I'm sure you already know).
Thanks for the great insight. I believe Jackson memorial in miami also had spots. I will definitely apply to those. I'm fully aware of the uphill battle and it scares me. I just wonder if applying to a "backup" is wise.
Just got my step 1 score (very bummed) and trying to determine if I have a realistic shot at California programs and what to do from here on out:
top 3 med school (not that I believe it but accofrding to US News)
step 1 242
7 basic science papers
3 clinical research papers in IR
Have a very strong radiology letter of rec locked in.
Thanks for any advice - been a rough morning thus far.
I assume you are about to be a 3rd year since you just got your step 1 score. That being said, don't worry about your chances right now, the most important thing you can do is focus on getting as many honors as you can in your upcoming rotations. For most programs, your performance in the core clerkships is the most important factor in granting interviews and even ranking. Assuming you do well in 3rd year, you will have an outstanding application, especially for research oriented programs. I'm not sure if you're first author on all the papers you mentioned, but if you are, you will have a very good shot at getting interviews at research-heavy CA programs like UCSF, Stanford, and even UCLA. You're top tier med school also plays in your favor (some programs care about med school rep, others don't). Don't worry about your step score, it's still a good score and the highest cutoff for granting interviews that I've ever heard of is 240 (some people have claimed unofficial cutoffs of 250 for MGH and MIR but I don't believe it). When it comes time to write a personal statement, I would definitely make it clear you're interested in academic medicine and research (I assume you are since you've done so much of it). Good luck and feel free to PM me with any more questions.
It kinda sounds like the OP is from Penn which takes step 1 about a year later than most med schools. That being said, it sounds like they would probably be competitive at most CA schools; they're pretty into pedigree, especially Stanford and UCLA.
If you applied to enough programs you'll probably be in good shape.
hey thanks for the advice guys - I'm actually at UCSF and just starting my 3rd year. felt a little lost and confused and well, dissapointed after getting my score back. only have 1 first author thus far, but hoping to hammer out a few more manuscripts this year or maybe take a research year off to be competitive
again, thanks for all the help, definitely softened the blow of a tough morning going to try and keep my chin up and do well in my 3rd year.
Dude, your score is fine.
I understand feeling a little let down (I was testing in the 260+ range and ended up near you) but that score won't close any doors. Keep in mind that you're still around a standard deviation above the average. As mentioned above, just do the best you can on rotations and go from there.
I'd chat with Dr. Qayyum and Avrin as well as Emma Webb; they are pretty good at advising people as to the best plan for applying. I'd also chat with the people who applied from UCSF this year. They're pretty cool and can give you a lot of good advice.
C/S that. Met a few of them on the trail and knew one from UG. Cool people.
240s, research, and UCSF shouldn't close any doors. Focus on doing well 3rd year and like drizz said talk to your department.
For reference, I think the UCSF people ended up at UCD, Wash U, UCSF, Stanford, and Duke if I recall correctly.
So, it was a subpar match year?
Hey thought I'd throw in my stats and see what you all think. 3rd year student at a school in the Midwest.
Step 1: 239/99
Step 2 CS: Pass
Only One honor in 3rd year cores (Psych) with one core left.
One non-rads research experience with possible publication.
Honors in every course but one in basic sciences.
OK ECs, leadership experiences.
What are the chances of matching in general and if I had to be geospecific in NYC (gf works there?
Of all the rotations to honor, Psych is the least helpful. Assuming you HPed everything else, I'd say you'd be a long shot for the academic NYC programs.
You should be able to match in NYC, but you might have to settle with community programs.
No chance at Cornell/NYU.
Very unlikely at Sinai/Einstein/Columbia, but always worth applying.
NS/LIJ or Beth Israel/SLR would be tough but doable (depends on how competitive the year is).
Smaller places like Winthrop or Staten Island are still decent and you should have a good shot.
Out of curiosity, what kind of people are getting interviews at the no chance and unlikely places, assuming a generic non-regional non-elite medical school?
I know that is a broad and vague question, but are we talking nobody with <250 and all honors? 240s with mostly honors?
Not that it will keep me from giving it the old college try either way, but I am curious as to what the prototype interviewee at those places tends to have.
Hey everyone, I'm a third year DO student interested in ACGME rads. Here are my stats:
Step 2: Taking it in July
Class rank: Top ten last time I checked.
My school doesn't have HP or H, it's based off a percentage, but mostly all of my clinical grades so far have been very high.
I have some research in electrophysiology (non rads) during med school, however I only presented a poster at a conference, no major publications
I would like to match somewhere in California, preferrably SoCal. What do you think my chances are at places like UCI or LLUMC?
Also should I reschedule my Step 2? The generally consensus seems to be that if you can't do better on it then Step 1, then delay taking it because it can only hurt your chances.
Any feedback would be much appreciated. Thanks!
Take Step 2 late enough that it is your choice whether or not it is released.
You will have trouble getting to an academic CA program even with a 260 as a DO. Many of them could easily fill with 260 MDs.
I'd try to get a case report out, and definitely be prepared to apply outside of CA. The Midwest is particularly DO friendly (that's the only place I saw any DOs on radiology interviews).
I think the 239 person probably has a chance at the mid tier academic NYC programs, especially Jacobi and Sinai but I also think this next year will be more competitive than this one was, sort of a rebound effect. My guess is that most people interviewing at Cornell and NYU have 245+ (maybe 250+ for NYU), mostly honors, and some research. Pedigree is important too.
A DO matched last year or two years ago at UCSD, so it's possible. My guess is that you'd be able to match in socal if you were willing to go to a community program but at least have a shot at some of the academic programs, so apply and see what happens. An away wouldn't be a bad idea.
Jacobi is not mid-tier NYC. It's a low-tier university-affiliate.
For NYC, a rough ranking:
NYU >> Cornell > Sinai* = Einstein (Montefiore) = Columbia
* great fellowship reputation in neuro and IR, may be next best of interested in those fields.
NS=LIJ > Beth Israel = St Luke's Roosevelt >= NYMC > SUNY Downstate
Jacobi is one of AECOM's University hospitals and AECOM is attached to it; i dont know how you'd say say it's not an academic program. I agree that monti is a better program.
It's a university-affiliated community program, not a university program.
Jacobi is near the bottom of the NYC programs, as opposed to Montefiore which is in the top 5.
No need to make this all auntminnie-ish.....I almost expect KingofReviews or Reviews339494939 to come on now....
Thanks though. I know it is a very imperfect science, but just wanted to get a better picture of the general levels. You know, the weather guy/gal map gesture version.
When I interviewed at NYU almost everyone seemed to be from a well regarded med school or a NYC med school
Anyways. I agree that the DO student with the 260 will be hard pressed to interview at the academic California programs. Anivam was pretty candid and the applicant pool at UCI was really high. I would also guess that the DO that matched at UCSD had very strong connections or research there.
Step 1: 240
Step 2: July
Clinical Grades: A except surgery
Preclinical Grades: A
Research: Ph.D., Multiple pubs but none in radiology
Med school: Mid-tier M.D. program in the mid-south
Ideal residency: University programs in Maryland/D.C. area, Mid-south, SE, Michigan, Ohio, Colorado, TX. Also interested in really strong community programs
Not interested in NE or Cali programs
What are my chances?
Thank you all for your feedback.
You'll definitely be solid. The areas you listed aren't among the most competitive.
Maryland/DC, Texas, Colorado will be more competitive just due to location.
Apply broadly and you can decide where to interview.
The more competitive programs in those regions would be UTSW, CCF, UofM, Emory, Vandy, UAB, Maryland, but you should land some of those due to your grades and PhD.
Yeah. I looked at so far almost 60 programs, most from the SE and some places I could see my self living at: FL, GA, AL, Miss, TX, OK, Neb, TN, Ark, Missou, SC, Louis, AZ, WV, Kan, KY. I will also add a few more programs that I know have colleagues of mine living there... like Minnesota.
I then made an excel sheet separating programs based on step 1. Yes, I know that many programs look beyond the score, but "objective" #s are important sometimes to even get at the door. I am surprised at how many programs either have cutoffs lower than my score or have no cutoffs (or at least have no published cutoff per Freida or website) . I call those "Checkmarks". Another group has ~220 as their cutoff... I labeled those "questionmarks", and I will apply to those to see if I get anyone's attention (e.g. sometimes Freida conflicts with the school's website). Then a few "red" schools that have 230+ as their cutoff and treat them as reach schools.
I can't change the past. I cant retake Step 1 or 2 or redo MS1-3. Either I can treat these as scarlet numbers, or I can focus on becoming the best applicant I can be. I have an MBA. I can only control whats in front of me: EC's, LOR's, Personal Statement, speaking to PDs. I have contacted the PDs of my top two choices already. I met with one and will meet with the other when I do my externship at the location. I am also going to rotate at another program nearby that is part of my school's curriculum. If I do take the chance and apply for radiology, I will focus on those aspects that I can control and be done with it. If I end up in a prelim, I can regroup next year and see what is in my future.
Of course I can apply to path and have a (relatively) easier path (no pun intended). But what can I say? You got to do the thing you like.
Honestly, you should be able to match, and depending on local ties might match decently in the South.
As you mentioned somewhere else, try to get a case report and try I get faculty support (to the level where they would make calls for you).
Lastly, don't filter out programs not on probation. Apply to everything in your region focusing special attention on a few midranges and reaches (ie tailoring your PS).
Spending an extra $500 to send out another 20 apps is nothing compared to the costs of interviewing (or not matching).
Yeah, missed that one.
Agreed. It is all an investment for the future. I am down in Miami, and the program director here is great. He has helped me revise my personal statement and seems like a helpful mentor giving me interviewing advice, etc. I am heading to gainsville for at least a couple of weeks to extend my network. I already contacted the PD there so she will be anticipating my arrival.
I got more encouragement than I expected from SDN. It is a pleasant surprise and I appreciate it. Ultimately my preference is either stay in my home program or in the State of FL.
Radiology has become less competitive the past few years. If it becomes more competitive, you may have trouble, but in the current environment if you apply to enough schools in the south and Midwest you will be fine.
Middle tier mid-west school
Step 1: 254
Step 2: planning to take late
Clinical Grades: H in Peds, psych and likely internal medicine, HP in surgery, ob and family med
Preclinical grades: almost all H
AOA: unknown - hopeful
Research: a couple experiences with poster presentation/abstract in other fields (though one was neuro-imaging related), but no publications
I'm fairly certain i'll match somewhere, likely will not apply to new york, will only go to Cali for top programs (which I imagine is a reach, right? - i may do away at one though). What about the top midwest programs (NW, mich, U of C, Mayo)? What about anywhere that is non-new york east coast?
Sounds like a nice app; you'll be competitive for all the top Midwest programs. Top CA and east coast (MGH, bwh, Penn, Hopkins, duke) programs may be a stretch, though.
Now, what if you took his app and changed mid-tier midwest school to "top 5 medical school." I bet he gets interviews almost everywhere.
I am just about to start my third year, and I am very interested in radiology.
I just got my Step 1 score back: 257
My pre clinical grades are average, maybe slightly above average (we are P/F).
I have some presentations and abstracts in an unrelated field. (IM)
I guess my next step is doing as well as possible during clinical rotations. Is there anything else that I should be doing now to strengthen my application for rads?
Thanks for any advice.
Step 1: 258
Honors- IM, Surgery, Neuro (Everything else HP)
Two first author non-rad pub, second author rad pub premed, one other non first author pub
Dual degree, 4.0 cGPA in other degree
Chances at top programs? Chicago Programs?
Separate names with a comma.