Fellowship?

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mbh11

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Current intern here, about to finish first year. Questions for those who have been in practice for a decent amount of time and want to speculate on this topic/are fellowship trained.

What fellowships, if any, are worth doing in our field now/in the future?

I am somewhat sure that I want to do a fellowship, but just not sure which one quite yet.

Current interests are ultrasound, admin, critical care (maybe). Open to others. Don't particularly want to do a two year fellowship, but am open to anything really. Career goals include likely working in a community setting right out of residency with hopes to shortly after transition into large academic center/work with a residency program or possibly be some sort of admin position/director. Just trying to think of career longevity and like the idea of being involved in academics at some point in my career. My residency is a large academic/county program and the current leadership has already dropped hints that they are likely only going to hire those who have done fellowships.

Appreciate the input.

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Ultrasound is probably one of the better bets. It's the only one that doesn't involve you working for another entity, it's desired in the community and academic centers, and it can produce enough revenue for the department to justify you for reasons other than academics.
 
Current intern here, about to finish first year. Questions for those who have been in practice for a decent amount of time and want to speculate on this topic/are fellowship trained.

What fellowships, if any, are worth doing in our field now/in the future?

I am somewhat sure that I want to do a fellowship, but just not sure which one quite yet.

Current interests are ultrasound, admin, critical care (maybe). Open to others. Don't particularly want to do a two year fellowship, but am open to anything really. Career goals include likely working in a community setting right out of residency with hopes to shortly after transition into large academic center/work with a residency program or possibly be some sort of admin position/director. Just trying to think of career longevity and like the idea of being involved in academics at some point in my career. My residency is a large academic/county program and the current leadership has already dropped hints that they are likely only going to hire those who have done fellowships.

Appreciate the input.

If you're interested in academics, anything that helps you form a educational niche is good. Have you considered a fellowship in education? That one specifically would address your career goals as it is the one most focused on getting you into leadership positions within a residency program.
 
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If you're interested in academics, anything that helps you form a educational niche is good. Have you considered a fellowship in education? That one specifically would address your career goals as it is the one most focused on getting you into leadership positions within a residency program.

Definitely thought about an academic fellowship, just not sure if it's for me. Not sure if I can bring myself to do a fellowship in academics just with the pure intent of getting some sort of faculty/director position as the reason to do it. I want to do something that I'm passionate about and will make me a better overall physician with the added/secondary benefit of "boosting my CV" to help me get a job I want.
 
Ultrasound is probably one of the better bets. It's the only one that doesn't involve you working for another entity, it's desired in the community and academic centers, and it can produce enough revenue for the department to justify you for reasons other than academics.


Yeah, that is kind of what I am thinking at this point. I think the US fellowship has multiple benefits, as you stated.
 
If you don't want to go into academics the critical care fellowship would probably be the best option. The doors of the ICU will serve as an effective barrier to some aspects of EM that are deteriorating ...

If you are interested in admin I think an MBA or MHA will be a more effective option than an admin fellowship.

Remember that in some cases the proliferation of fellowships is a way to get more cheap labor working your department.

It is up to you to sort it out.
 
According to academic department chairs, ultrasound is the most sought-after fellowship, although anything that gives you an academic niche might be useful. What do you specifically want out of a fellowship? There are lots of people who want to get out of the emergency department and will pursue additional training in critical care, pain management, sports medicine, and so on. Or you may wish to continue to work in the ED as an expert in a particular field such as ultrasound, toxicology, pediatrics, EMS, etc.
 
Pain Medicine (Interventional) is the best one.

It's the only EM fellowship that gives you the option to,

1) Get out of the ED,

2) Get out of hospital-based medicine,

3) Make as much or more money as in general EM

4) Eliminate shift-work sleep disorder completely from your life allowing one to truly live a normal life, AND,

5) Reduce job related stress by 10 fold.

No other EM subspecialty offers all 5 of these things. (Hospice & palliative care fails on #3. Critical care, fails on 2, 4 & 5. Sports med fails on #3 and all the others fail on #1, 2 & 4 and +/- 5.) Interventional Pain is also, by far, the hardest of the EM fellowships to get, BY A MILE, because you're competing with 6 other specialties, with a heavy dominance by competitive anesthesiology-resident applicants and EM currently very underrepresented in the sub-specialty.
 
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Pain Medicine (Interventional) is the best one.

It's the only EM fellowship that gives you the option to,

1) Get out of the ED,

2) Get out of hospital-based medicine,

3) Make as much or more money as in general EM

4) Eliminate shift-work sleep disorder completely from your life allowing one to truly live a normal life, AND,

5) Reduce job related stress by 10 fold.

No other EM subspecialty offers all 5 of these things (hospice & palliative care falls down on #3; critical care, on 2, 4 & 5.) It's also, by far, the hardest one to get, by a mile, because you're competing with 6 other specialties, with a heavy dominance by anesthesiology resident applicants.

How does one make themselves competitive and prepare to apply to a pain fellowship during residency? If it's that competitive, what are good ways to separate your app as an EM resident from all the anesthesia applicants?
 
What is the patient population like?

40% little old ladies & men who want no part of opiates and need the occasional hip/knee/spine steroid injection or other spinal intervention and are a joy to serve, and who bring bread, cookies and cards on holidays.

40% very unfortunate people with real and severe intractable life-ruining pain who legitimately need various combinations of low to moderate dose opiates and/or non-opiate meds and/or various procedural interventions, who don't cause much real trouble at all.

20% people who need to be told in a brief, focused and non-confrontational way with zero bargaining, negotiation or co-dependence: "You don't need opiates. In fact opiates are more harm than good for you. You need to consider X, Y, or Z as an alternative. If you're, not interested, sorry I cannot help you. Please follow up with your referring provider." This is with X, Y and Z being either nothing, addiction/psych-detox, or maximization of non-opiate pain treatment strategies (long list of options, its own thread). This is a group none of us can avoid, whether in the ED, as an internist, ortho, spine surgeon or anyone who takes care of patients with pain, ie, every clinical specialty that interacts with live patients in the flesh. You can only choose what time, on which turf, and on which terms you're going to interact with them.

The final group is the one that unnecessarily fills many EM physicians with the most dread. True, this population is challenging but much easier to deal with in a non-ED setting since EMTALA doesn't apply to non-EM settings. You can pick and choose your patients. You can fire patients permanently for any reason or no reason at all as long as a 30d notice letter given. You can accept/refuse patients at will and set up office policy road blocks that filter out the worst system abusers before they ever get to you. Yon't have to deal with crashing patients/trauma/chaos/screams/anarchy/general-mayhem-madness-insanity swirling around WHILE dealing with this group. This is something you absolutely WILL have to do in the adult-ED every shift until you retire. There's very little real stress or time pressure. The encounters occur at 3pm on a Tuesday and never at 3am on a weekend or holiday when you're brain is in a fog from pseudo-jet lag. Also, you're always rested and free of the overarching dysphoria caused by shift-work sleep disorder which makes otherwise simple interactions more tense, dysphoric and draining. Finally, patient satisfaction surveys are much less relevant, if not irrelevant in the outpatient setting, as long as your schedule remains booked or close to it.
 
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How does one make themselves competitive and prepare to apply to a pain fellowship during residency? If it's that competitive, what are good ways to separate your app as an EM resident from all the anesthesia applicants?

Several threads on this in the Pain Forum.
 
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If you don't want to go into academics the critical care fellowship would probably be the best option. The doors of the ICU will serve as an effective barrier to some aspects of EM that are deteriorating ...
Are there avenues to do EM/Critical Care in academic settings? Or are most of the EM Critical Care trained folks working in the community?
 
So, @Birdstrike finally took off the mask (halfway) and let us know what is the subspec he did. I'll not actually list it, for when he (likely) will delete his posts.

"Halfway"? What the hell do you expect me to do? Lol. Post my name, face, SS#, DNA sequence AND a twig & berries selfie?
 
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Thanks for the replies.

Never really thought about Pain Management. Definitely curious about it. My hesitance is that it sounds like once I complete that fellowship, I'll be out of the ED and into the clinic setting. Although it sounds financially and schedule-wise enticing, I went into EM for a reason.. And the clinic setting was not one of those reasons.

Do EM physicians who complete a pain management fellowship also work in the ED and split time? Or do you just start doing the pain mgmt part?
 
So, @Birdstrike finally took off the mask (halfway) and let us know what is the subspec he did. I'll not actually list it, for when he (likely) will delete his posts.

He dropped some hints in the past that pointed this way. We should have had a pool on it...


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Is pain out of the question from a community residency?
 
I went into EM for a reason.. And the clinic setting was not one of those reasons.
Same here. But wait until you get that 7 year itch. You may change.


.

Do EM physicians who complete a pain management fellowship also work in the ED and split time?
I don't, but there's no reason you couldn't.


.

Or do you just start doing the pain mgmt part?
I went straight into 100% pain. However, I had been an EM attending for several years before fellowship, so I had had enough fun in the ED, and my share of burnout, that I did't mind leaving it behind.
 
You don't have to do a fellowship.
If you go out into the community, work for a few years, stay remotely involved on an academic level, plenty of chair would be happy to hire you to work in an academic setting.
Unfortunately there are plenty of folks in academics who struggle to cover the ED each week when the residents are at conference. There is a growing group of folks who are work clinical shifts and teach the residents in academic centers.
If you love a particular area in EM that has a fellowship, look at a fellowship. If you want to work with residents, go out into the community, get really good at Emergency Medicine, and you'll find plenty of "academic jobs."
 
Man, if I ever leave EM...it won't be to a pain clinic. Chronic pain is one of the things I don't like about EM! Maybe it's different when you have the tools to actually help.
 
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Man, if I ever leave EM...it won't be to a pain clinic. Chronic pain is one of the things I don't like about EM! Maybe it's different when you have the tools to actually help.
Clearly, it's not for everyone, but I must say, it's worked out great for me. The only reason I didn't post about is sooner, like 4-5 years ago, is because even I wasn't sure that it would work out in the beginning. My posts on this forum had a lot of influence at that time (or seemed to) so I didn't to really endorse anything until I was sure it would even work out for me. I also didn't want to blab too much about it early on, while interviewing and starting a practice, mainly for anonymity during that time, not knowing if I'd get a fellowship, where/if I'd get a job and if I might even go back to EM. I took a bit of a leap of faith in doing a Pain fellowship, with the idea that if I didn't like it, I could bail out at any time, even after a month of two if I wanted, and go right back to my old job in EM. But as it worked out, I haven't work a day in the ED, since I left. I've had no desire, whatsoever.

I had a lot of fun in my more than a decade in the ED, but it absolutely beat me down after a while. 90% of that burnout was the circadian rhythm effects on my life, attitude and well being. I got to a point where I just wanted a normal life, and I wanted to feel rested, and not jet lagged every day of my life. I got to the point that I swear to God, I'd lay brick in a Louisiana swamp 40 hrs per week, if I could just sleep at night, feel well rested all the time and have a normal life with my family and make 2/3 of what I made as an EP. No code, interesting case or life saved was enough override the emotional exhaustion. Add to that the relentless pace over time, growing Press Ganey insanity and being expected by administration to do the impossible, meet unattainable time goals and save the ED overcrowding crisis single-handedly every shift, it became time to try something new. By "new," I wanted something 180 degrees different, not just a job that would be 5 or 10% better, for a year or two, until the contract got dumped.

So I applied to, and completed an ACGME accredited Pain fellowship (interventional focus), side by side with anesthesiolgists and physiatrists. After 5 years, I can honestly say its worked out great, for me. I'm not telling anyone else to do it, but I like it and it's an option for EP's now (Pain fellowship + sub-specialty board certification.) I'm happy about that, having been at the forefront of the process to push that through nationally. I'm proud to have taken a role in bringing a new sub-specialty to EM, however how large or small that role was and is.

I like the procedures. I just scheduled a kyphoplasty, which I love doing. It's cool stuff. This is stuff only interventional rads, ortho spine and neurosurgeons get to do. Unless, you're a ACGME Pain Fellowship trained and ABMS Pain board certified EM physician. I think that's pretty cool. Spinal cord stimulators are pretty cool to do, also. I do a lot of lumbar and cervical epidural injections, nerve blocks (some spine, some peripheral, imaging-guided), plus tons of ortho type stuff such as intra-articular hip injections, shoulder injections. There's radiofrequency facet joint nerve ablations for axial spinal pain. Lumbar sympathetic chain blocks, for (legit) RSD. The list goes on.

Yes, there are the clinic days. They key is to focus as much on non-opiate treatment options as possible (some pain doctors prescribe zero opiates.) There's a whole laundry list of options you have to empower yourself with much greater control over weeding out and dealing with the worst system abusers in a non-ED non-EMTALA setting, but I won't bore you with the details unless someone wants them. You just do the right thing, use opiates as little as possible and be as strict as you can with prescribing tools, monitoring, drug screens, etc, when you do think a patient will benefit from them. Can difficult patients get irritating some times? Yes. But all things considered, I can honestly say my stress is 90% less than it was in the ED and working 4 1/2 days per week at my office ( about 40 hr) is infinitely easier on me, than working my ED schedule was. I feel like my career and life expectancy both, are probably 5 years longer as a result.

I can't tell you how great I felt, when I got that phone call with my fellowship offer and I accepted it, knowing that would I have to work another night weekend or holiday the rest of my life (except for a rare few during the fellowship year), feel rested and refreshed again, and be able to truly live a normal life again. That being said, I absolutely would not have been able to appreciate what a great thing I have, if I hadn't gone through what I did in 10 yrs in EM. I likely would not have been happy or interested in doing what I'm doing now, if I hadn't had the chance to do the things I did, see the things I saw and ride the rodeo that is the ED for 10 years. I don't regret my time in EDs at all. In fact, I wouldn't change it for the world, but I don't want to go back.

It's all just amazing how it worked out. I'm very lucky and much happier.
 
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Clearly, it's not for everyone, but I must say, it's worked out great for me. The only reason I didn't post about is sooner, like 4-5 years ago, is because even I wasn't sure that it would work out in the beginning. My posts on this forum had a lot of influence at that time (or seemed to) so I didn't to really endorse anything until I was sure it would even work out for me. I also didn't want to blab too much about it early on, while interviewing and starting a practice, mainly for anonymity during that time, not knowing if I'd get a fellowship, where/if I'd get a job and if I might even go back to EM. I took a bit of a leap of faith in doing a Pain fellowship, with the idea that if I didn't like it, I could bail out at any time, even after a month of two if I wanted, and go right back to my old job in EM. But as it worked out, I haven't work a day in the ED, since I left. I've had no desire, whatsoever.

I had a lot of fun in my more than a decade in the ED, but it absolutely beat me down after a while. 90% of that burnout was the circadian rhythm effects on my life, attitude and well being. I got to a point where I just wanted a normal life, and I wanted to feel rested, and not jet lagged every day of my life. I got to the point that I swear to God, I'd lay brick in a Louisiana swamp 40 hrs per week, if I could just sleep at night, feel well rested all the time and have a normal life with my family and make 2/3 of what I made as an EP. No code, interesting case or life saved was enough override the emotional exhaustion. Add to that the relentless pace over time, growing Press Ganey insanity and being expected by administration to do the impossible, meet unattainable time goals and save the ED overcrowding crisis single-handedly every shift, it became time to try something new. By "new," I wanted something 180 degrees different, not just a job that would be 5 or 10% better, for a year or two, until the contract got dumped.

So I applied to, and completed an ACGME accredited Pain fellowship (interventional focus), side by side with anesthesiolgists and physiatrists. After 5 years, I can honestly say its worked out great, for me. I'm not telling anyone else to do it, but I like it and it's an option for EP's now (Pain fellowship + sub-specialty board certification.) I'm happy about that, having been at the forefront of the process to push that through nationally. I'm proud to have taken a role in bringing a new sub-specialty to EM, however how large or small that role was and is.

I like the procedures. I just scheduled a kyphoplasty, which I love doing. It's cool stuff. This is stuff only interventional rads, ortho spine and neurosurgeons get to do. Unless, you're a ACGME Pain Fellowship trained and ABMS Pain board certified EM physician. I think that's pretty cool. Spinal cord stimulators are pretty cool to do, also. I do a lot of lumbar and cervical epidural injections, nerve blocks (some spine, some peripheral, imaging-guided), plus tons of ortho type stuff such as intra-articular hip injections, shoulder injections. There's radiofrequency facet joint nerve ablations for axial spinal pain. Lumbar sympathetic chain blocks, for (legit) RSD. The list goes on.

Yes, there are the clinic days. They key is to focus as much on non-opiate treatment options as possible (some pain doctors prescribe zero opiates.) There's a whole laundry list of options you have to empower yourself with much greater control over weeding out and dealing with the worst system abusers in a non-ED non-EMTALA setting, but I won't bore you with the details unless someone wants them. You just do the right thing, use opiates as little as possible and be as strict as you can with prescribing tools, monitoring, drug screens, etc, when you do think a patient will benefit from them. Can difficult patients get irritating some times? Yes. But all things considered, I can honestly say my stress is 90% less than it was in the ED and working 4 1/2 days per week at my office ( about 40 hr) is infinitely easier on me, than working my ED schedule was. I feel like my career and life expectancy both, are probably 5 years longer as a result.

I can't tell you how great I felt, when I got that phone call with my fellowship offer and I accepted it, knowing that would I have to work another night weekend or holiday the rest of my life (except for a rare few during the fellowship year), feel rested and refreshed again, and be able to truly live a normal life again. That being said, I absolutely would not have been able to appreciate what a great thing I have, if I hadn't gone through what I did in 10 yrs in EM. I likely would not have been happy or interested in doing what I'm doing now, if I hadn't had the chance to do the things I did, see the things I saw and ride the rodeo that is the ED for 10 years. I don't regret my time in EDs at all. In fact, I wouldn't change it for the world, but I don't want to go back.

It's all just amazing how it worked out. I'm very lucky and much happier.

Holy crap. The secret is out!

Thanks for sharing this, Birdstrike. A very useful post. Congrats on getting into such a competitive sub-specialty and for thriving in it! Really glad it worked out for you.
 
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Clearly, it's not for everyone, but I must say, it's worked out great for me. The only reason I didn't post about is sooner, like 4-5 years ago, is because even I wasn't sure that it would work out in the beginning. My posts on this forum had a lot of influence at that time (or seemed to) so I didn't to really endorse anything until I was sure it would even work out for me. I also didn't want to blab too much about it early on, while interviewing and starting a practice, mainly for anonymity during that time, not knowing if I'd get a fellowship, where/if I'd get a job and if I might even go back to EM. I took a bit of a leap of faith in doing a Pain fellowship, with the idea that if I didn't like it, I could bail out at any time, even after a month of two if I wanted, and go right back to my old job in EM. But as it worked out, I haven't work a day in the ED, since I left. I've had no desire, whatsoever.

I had a lot of fun in my more than a decade in the ED, but it absolutely beat me down after a while. 90% of that burnout was the circadian rhythm effects on my life, attitude and well being. I got to a point where I just wanted a normal life, and I wanted to feel rested, and not jet lagged every day of my life. I got to the point that I swear to God, I'd lay brick in a Louisiana swamp 40 hrs per week, if I could just sleep at night, feel well rested all the time and have a normal life with my family and make 2/3 of what I made as an EP. No code, interesting case or life saved was enough override the emotional exhaustion. Add to that the relentless pace over time, growing Press Ganey insanity and being expected by administration to do the impossible, meet unattainable time goals and save the ED overcrowding crisis single-handedly every shift, it became time to try something new. By "new," I wanted something 180 degrees different, not just a job that would be 5 or 10% better, for a year or two, until the contract got dumped.

So I applied to, and completed an ACGME accredited Pain fellowship (interventional focus), side by side with anesthesiolgists and physiatrists. After 5 years, I can honestly say its worked out great, for me. I'm not telling anyone else to do it, but I like it and it's an option for EP's now (Pain fellowship + sub-specialty board certification.) I'm happy about that, having been at the forefront of the process to push that through nationally. I'm proud to have taken a role in bringing a new sub-specialty to EM, however how large or small that role was and is.

I like the procedures. I just scheduled a kyphoplasty, which I love doing. It's cool stuff. This is stuff only interventional rads, ortho spine and neurosurgeons get to do. Unless, you're a ACGME Pain Fellowship trained and ABMS Pain board certified EM physician. I think that's pretty cool. Spinal cord stimulators are pretty cool to do, also. I do a lot of lumbar and cervical epidural injections, nerve blocks (some spine, some peripheral, imaging-guided), plus tons of ortho type stuff such as intra-articular hip injections, shoulder injections. There's radiofrequency facet joint nerve ablations for axial spinal pain. Lumbar sympathetic chain blocks, for (legit) RSD. The list goes on.

Yes, there are the clinic days. They key is to focus as much on non-opiate treatment options as possible (some pain doctors prescribe zero opiates.) There's a whole laundry list of options you have to empower yourself with much greater control over weeding out and dealing with the worst system abusers in a non-ED non-EMTALA setting, but I won't bore you with the details unless someone wants them. You just do the right thing, use opiates as little as possible and be as strict as you can with prescribing tools, monitoring, drug screens, etc, when you do think a patient will benefit from them. Can difficult patients get irritating some times? Yes. But all things considered, I can honestly say my stress is 90% less than it was in the ED and working 4 1/2 days per week at my office ( about 40 hr) is infinitely easier on me, than working my ED schedule was. I feel like my career and life expectancy both, are probably 5 years longer as a result.

I can't tell you how great I felt, when I got that phone call with my fellowship offer and I accepted it, knowing that would I have to work another night weekend or holiday the rest of my life (except for a rare few during the fellowship year), feel rested and refreshed again, and be able to truly live a normal life again. That being said, I absolutely would not have been able to appreciate what a great thing I have, if I hadn't gone through what I did in 10 yrs in EM. I likely would not have been happy or interested in doing what I'm doing now, if I hadn't had the chance to do the things I did, see the things I saw and ride the rodeo that is the ED for 10 years. I don't regret my time in EDs at all. In fact, I wouldn't change it for the world, but I don't want to go back.

It's all just amazing how it worked out. I'm very lucky and much happier.

It's posts like this that make SDN so valuable. After following birds stuff over the years and starting a family I've decided to pursue FM first and EM second so that I can have a normal life. I don't know if that's going to be a combined residency, a fellowship, or just occasional rural moonlighting, but I know that I'm going to have something very close to a normal life. Your posts are priceless bird. Med students creeping from all around salute you.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile
 
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It's posts like this that make SDN so valuable. After following birds stuff over the years and starting a family I've decided to pursue FM first and EM second so that I can have a normal life. I don't know if that's going to be a combined residency, a fellowship, or just occasional rural moonlighting, but I know that I'm going to have something very close to a normal life. Your posts are priceless bird. Med students creeping from all around salute you.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Thanks

Glad I could be of help.
 
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It's posts like this that make SDN so valuable. After following birds stuff over the years and starting a family I've decided to pursue FM first and EM second so that I can have a normal life. I don't know if that's going to be a combined residency, a fellowship, or just occasional rural moonlighting, but I know that I'm going to have something very close to a normal life. Your posts are priceless bird. Med students creeping from all around salute you.


Sent from my iPhone using SDN mobile

Just remember, every job has its warts. Full time EM wasn't for Bird. It's a really hard job, no doubt. But it has some really great parts, too.
 
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Just remember, every job has its warts. Full time EM wasn't for Bird. It's a really hard job, no doubt. But it has some really great parts, too.

I'd like to clarify. EM was "for me," including General EM up to about age 40, but wasn't going to be, age 40 to retirement.

EM still is for me. I just now practice a subspecialty of it. Sub-specialty EM, ie, Interventional Pain Medicine in my case, is "for me" age 40 to retirement.

Also, don't take what in saying as an indictment of general EM. I'm glad I went into EM. It just wasn't anything I felt I could or wanted to sustained for an entire 30 year career. But I'm still an EM physician. I still am board certified in Emergency Medicine by ABEM (and have to do those ridiculous LLSAs & MOC) and I'm board certified in a subspecialty of EM (Pain Medicine in my case) by ABEM. It's all under the EM umbrella.

Plus, I still can do as many or as few general EM shifts as I want to do. But it's up to me and I don't have to, to maintain my income. I haven't left EM. I've just added a new skill and niche to my EM skills, and added some opportunities a long with it. But it no way does the erase the "EM" part of it.

After all, if I had never gone into EM, I wouldn't have had all the stories to tell...
 
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@Birdstrike how did you keep up your EM skills during fellowship? Moonlighting? Arrangement with fellowship director to work some in the ED? I would imagine EM shifts aren't built into that fellowship since it's not primarily an EM subspecialty.
 
I'd like to clarify. EM was "for me," including General EM up to about age 40, but wasn't going to be, age 40 to retirement.

EM still is for me. I just now practice a subspecialty of it. Sub-specialty EM, ie, Interventional Pain Medicine in my case, is "for me" age 40 to retirement.

Also, don't take what in saying as an indictment of general EM. I'm glad I went into EM. It just wasn't anything I felt I could or wanted to sustained for an entire 30 year career. But I'm still an EM physician. I still am board certified in Emergency Medicine by ABEM (and have to do those ridiculous LLSAs & MOC) and I'm board certified in a subspecialty of EM (Pain Medicine in my case) by ABEM. It's all under the EM umbrella.

Plus, I still can do as many or as few general EM shifts as I want to do. But it's up to me and I don't have to, to maintain my income. I haven't left EM. I've just added a new skill and niche to my EM skills, and added some opportunities a long with it. But it no way does the erase the "EM" part of it.

After all, if I had never gone into EM, I wouldn't have had all the stories to tell...

Were you leaning strongly towards other specialties? I have a strong interest in EMS, and now that that's an ABMS subspecialty of EM, I'm thinking it might be a good way to transition away from hospital shifts into a more manageable lifestyle down the road.
 
Were you leaning strongly towards other specialties? I have a strong interest in EMS, and now that that's an ABMS subspecialty of EM, I'm thinking it might be a good way to transition away from hospital shifts into a more manageable lifestyle down the road.
In 1st two years of medical school it was EM vs General Surgery (trauma)
Then the final two years of medical school, it became EM vs Derm
Then once in EM it became "Can I do the shift work for 30 years or should I transition to something, anything where I can have a normal life"?

That "something, anything" became a brainstorming process between: finding the perfect job vs EMS vs administration vs tox vs urgent care vs hospice palliative care vs leaving medicine entirely vs doing an MBA vs opening an urgent care vs critical care vs "Pain fellowship, what, you mean I can do the same pain fellowship anesthesiologists do? Hmm, lemme look into that."
 
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@Birdstrike how did you keep up your EM skills during fellowship? Moonlighting? Arrangement with fellowship director to work some in the ED? I would imagine EM shifts aren't built into that fellowship since it's not primarily an EM subspecialty.

I set up credentials with a locums company and got my full license in the state I was going to fellowship in. I also spoke to the EM department where I was going and they offered to let me do moonlighting shifts any time I wanted. So, I had two avenues lined up to moonlight. However, since I had been in EM about 10 years already since going into fellowship, I felt my skills were pretty hard wired by that point, so rapid skill loss wasn't as much of an issue as if I was right out of training. That being said, as I went into fellowship I did think it through and prepare for skill retention moonlighting. Once I actually started fellowship and felt I liked it enough to likely do it full time once out of fellowship, I actually ended up doing zero moonlighting shifts the whole year. Also, I had a job lined up in Pain before I even started fellowship (on a handshake) which made me less worried about having trouble hitting the ground running afterwords, if I choose to go that route. My fellowship was busy enough that more than 4 moonlighting shifts per month would've been tough, but like I said, I had it lined up to do so, if needed. Ended up not being needed. Now I have calls and emails from recruiters, literally, 5 times per day, years later, no matter how many times I tell them, "No." Lol
 
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@Birdstrike or anyone else- the pain route seems pretty appealing, especially since it's only 1 year (or am I wrong?)

how hard is it to get one of these fellowships from EM? also, is this route conducive to working something like a 50/50 split in pain and EM or is that not worth it?

Thanks!
 
@Birdstrike or anyone else- the pain route seems pretty appealing, especially since it's only 1 year (or am I wrong?)

how hard is it to get one of these fellowships from EM? also, is this route conducive to working something like a 50/50 split in pain and EM or is that not worth it?

Thanks!

It's 1 year.
They're very competitive even if you're in dominant specialty of anesthesia. However, some programs like to save a spot or two for non-anesthesia specialties. At those programs, and if you apply widely (every program, or close to it) you have a better shot than you might think. When I was applying 5-6 yrs ago, of the 8 or so EM applicant I knew of, I think 4 or so got accredited fellowship spots. Anecdotal, and I have no hard numbers to definitively back it up.

As far as a 50/50 split, I certainly think it's possible. I know of one guy that did it. He was at Kaiser in CA. That's where it would work, at a very large hospital system, where you're an employee, academics or otherwise. I'm sure academic EM programs would love to employee a dual boarded EM/Pain person, mainly since there's so few, and since it's a new thing in EM. Finding two separate part times jobs in private practice (1/2 pain, 1/2 ER) would be much tougher. Or if you worked for a CMG that had EM and anesthesia (and therefore interventional Pain also) under the same umbrella. Otherwise, you'd be simply be having to find two part time physicians jobs, and coordinate the schedules, which is he'd to do in Medicine, though not impossible.
 
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