For All Arabs and especially Egyptions

[Moslem Doctor]

Asalamo alekom
I am medical student at the 6th year in Egypt and about to end my last year here insha Allah , i want to know any Egyption and also Arabs who intend to take board exam soon and we form study group and be partners and help each other

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[LADoc00]

احذروا من لا يرجى خيره ولا يؤمن شره

 

[mohamed_dahan]

I would like to join u in a study group
i intend to take the exam on the end of dec to mid jan
conact me [email protected]

 

[Knight_MD]

I'm also a 6th yr student going for the boards next yr isA...

However, I'm planning to take Step 2 before Step 1, while the info is still fresh in my mind...

I have a question to both posters, how informative did you find the Kaplan video lectures? I mean after everything has been thoroughly explained to us at med.school, do we still need to hear it over again from the video lectures?

(I also don't want to acquire the CDs copy illegaly (7aram) so I'm asking if one could do without them)

Any other Egyptians who took the path till the end (residency) with any pearls of wisdom? (+what made u decide to take the boards from the 1st place)

 

[Moslem Doctor]

Asalamo alekom
welcome for both of you Doctor Dahan and Doctor knight .
first i want explain why i will take step one first
- if u think that step one is only rough basic informations u have to memorise like it was at school so u totaly wrong , it is all clinical applied ,even when u study subject like pathology u actually study medicine but from diffrent view which give u great value , and it make you grasp the material like no before and give u self confident and it give u bonus that u knew finaly what behind and why! this totaly will make u differ than any in the traning year after 6th year end , one look to their basic book and u will understand what i mean .
- step two also based on step one , our schools syestems totaly differ in way and approach for basics than Americans , so u cant come simply jump on step one and take two which already based on step one
- to can apply for step two exam u have to give them your graduation certification which u will not obtain till u end traning year! in this traning year u can take step one !

for kaplan video i dont like at all and i find it time waste , u can go alone without , i would rather get Goljan audio in pathology if i will get any helpful tool

 

[Fascia Lata]

- to can apply for step two exam u have to give them your graduation certification which u will not obtain till u end traning year! in this traning year u can take step one !

This is totally wrong. Plz guys don't make assumptions and state them as if they were facts. Post only credible information you know. There r many people outhere that we may confuse telling them false assumptions.

You can take Step 2 as a student, not necessarily a graduate.

I, personally, prefer taking step 2 (CK and CS) before step 1. I have actually applied to step 2 CK already and will apply to step 2 CS shortly. I have many reasons, professional and personal, that I don't think will fit into the discussion.

 

[Knight_MD]

Thanks a lot for the correction Fascia Lata, I was this close to changing my entire plan.

Actually, I'm taking Step 2 1st (and I advise you to do so too, if u haven't started studying yet) because you will be able to study Surgery, Obs.Gyna, and Internal Medicine much easier and faster with the information fresh in your mind having just taken a mind numbing final year exam, in a year that lasted 13 months, after another year that lasted 15 months (if you're in Ain Shams Uni).

If you start opening your Anatomy, Physiology, Bio, Path, Pharma...etc books all over again, you will lose (forget) a great deal of the formerly mentioned subjects studied in 5th and 6th year.

The fact that Step 1 is clinically oriented (and you're right, it is), means that you should better take the Step 1 exam after u finish 6th year, and not after 3rd year (as many do). That's all.

Step 1, being more important in the residency application, requires more concentration, dedication, and time. So, it's better to take it after having gone through Step 2 (which u studied for in a short period of time) and focus on Step 1 for the rest of the training year.

Thanx a lot Moslem (actually correct spelling is "Muslim" ) doctor for the comments on Kaplan video. It totally relieved me and will save a lot of time if one studied and solved MCQs instead of listening to lectures explaining subjects that have already been explained over and over again throughout the years.... Thanks

Either way, good luck to you

TC, Salam

 

[Fascia Lata]

Thanks a lot for the correction Fascia Lata, I was this close to changing my entire plan.

Actually, I'm taking Step 2 1st (and I advise you to do so too, if u haven't started studying yet) because you will be able to study Surgery, Obs.Gyna, and Internal Medicine much easier and faster with the information fresh in your mind having just taken a mind numbing final year exam, in a year that lasted 13 months, after another year that lasted 15 months (if you're in Ain Shams Uni).

If you start opening your Anatomy, Physiology, Bio, Path, Pharma...etc books all over again, you will lose (forget) a great deal of the formerly mentioned subjects studied in 5th and 6th year.

The fact that Step 1 is clinically oriented (and you're right, it is), means that you should better take the Step 1 exam after u finish 6th year, and not after 3rd year (as many do). That's all.

Step 1, being more important in the residency application, requires more concentration, dedication, and time. So, it's better to take it after having gone through Step 2 (which u studied for in a short period of time) and focus on Step 1 for the rest of the training year.

Thanx a lot Moslem (actually correct spelling is "Muslim" ) doctor for the comments on Kaplan video. It totally relieved me and will save a lot of time if one studied and solved MCQs instead of listening to lectures explaining subjects that have already been explained over and over again throughout the years.... Thanks

Either way, good luck to you

TC, Salam

Hey Knight MD,

Happy u r determined on what you r planning to do.. Actually I've just received an email from ECFMG that states they've assigned me the October-Decmber eligibility period. I've actually started studying already.

My plan is to take the CK exam in December, My CS exam in March and finally my step one in July or August. This way I''d be able to apply on September 1st, 2007 to ERAS/2008 Match.

If you need any particular assistance just PM me.
Hope you too take some serious steps )

As for the Moslem vs. Muslim thing, actually you can find both in any dictionary. So both are correct. Having said that, I indeed prefer the Moslem spelling and pronounciation (Yes, they differ in pronounciation !!). Sheikh Youssef Estes, a convert Moslem scholar elaborates on this matter by telling how he in the beginning, before converting to Islam, had pronounced the word. He said that this spelling had lead him among most Westerners to pronounce the Word as MOZLEM, and that he later on found that the spelling "Moslem" better reflects how we, native Arabs, pronounce the word. Anyway it is not a big deal) By the way, I totally agree that brother Moslem Doctor has to work a lot on his language skills, sorry but u really have to.

Good luck !!

 

[Knight_MD]

This timeline seems really reasonable... however, from the dates you've given, I'm thinking you're already in your internship year. I'd like to know what you've done between the end of 6th year, and today. (Ain Shams starts the training year in March, Cairo Uni I guess starts it in September, the latter offers a much more convienient timeline for the USMLE)

Actually, I haven't taken any official steps so far, just overendulged USMLE research (except for buying the CK MCQ book)... I'll start right after my final year exams next January.

My plan insha'Allah is to take the CK in May, the CS in Summer, then study for Step 1 for the remainder of my internship year... I won't be done with my internship before March 2008 so it's pointless rushing into Step 1 too early...

What I'm actually worried about is the lack of US electives in my resume. I heard they could be a deal breaker for many residencies. And that many residency directors screen the applications by the absence or presence of USCE (US clinical experience)... I'm not quite sure about that but it's worrying me. Also, obtaining US LORs is another source of concern (what are you doing about that?)...

As you said, the "Moslem" spelling is pronounced "mOZlem" by most Westerners. However, the word "Muslim" offers a much more accurate pronounciation to the Arabic word, such as "Koran" and "Qur'an".

The thing is, I'm also Canadian, and with the new IMG rules there, I'm thinking of taking the MCCEEs after the CK (same subjects, easier exam)... who knows, maybe a surgical residency in Canada would open up? I still haven't fully made this decision (more costs, small odds)... but I guess it's better than studying all over again for the MCCEE...

I hear the the USMLE scores are valid for like 5 years... if this is true, and a temp University position opens up, I may just take it and postpone my match application for 3 years... however, again, older graduates aren't preferrable in the match, but the thing is, I don't know how old "3-years-post-grad" is.

Hoping for the best.

 

[Fascia Lata]

This timeline seems really reasonable... however, from the dates you've given, I'm thinking you're already in your internship year. I'd like to know what you've done between the end of 6th year, and today. (Ain Shams starts the training year in March, Cairo Uni I guess starts it in September, the latter offers a much more convienient timeline for the USMLE)

Actually, I haven't taken any official steps so far, just overendulged USMLE research (except for buying the CK MCQ book)... I'll start right after my final year exams next January.

My plan insha'Allah is to take the CK in May, the CS in Summer, then study for Step 1 for the remainder of my internship year... I won't be done with my internship before March 2008 so it's pointless rushing into Step 1 too early...

What I'm actually worried about is the lack of US electives in my resume. I heard they could be a deal breaker for many residencies. And that many residency directors screen the applications by the absence or presence of USCE (US clinical experience)... I'm not quite sure about that but it's worrying me. Also, obtaining US LORs is another source of concern (what are you doing about that?)...

As you said, the "Moslem" spelling is pronounced "mOZlem" by most Westerners. However, the word "Muslim" offers a much more accurate pronounciation to the Arabic word, such as "Koran" and "Qur'an".

The thing is, I'm also Canadian, and with the new IMG rules there, I'm thinking of taking the MCCEEs after the CK (same subjects, easier exam)... who knows, maybe a surgical residency in Canada would open up? I still haven't fully made this decision (more costs, small odds)... but I guess it's better than studying all over again for the MCCEE...

I hear the the USMLE scores are valid for like 5 years... if this is true, and a temp University position opens up, I may just take it and postpone my match application for 3 years... however, again, older graduates aren't preferrable in the match, but the thing is, I don't know how old "3-years-post-grad" is.

Hoping for the best.

Hey Knight, thanks for the reply.

I'm sorry I wasn't clear enough to convey my idea about the Moslem/Muslim thing. What I meant was the reverse of what u understood. I meant that Muslim is pronounced as MoZlem.

Anyway, let's move to the hot topic..

I'm in my 7th month of internship right now. My internship started on March 1st, 2006. I haven't started preparing for the CK exam till June. My schedule is actually very laid back and relaxed. I study the Kaplan notes. I have gone thru some videos but have just found the notes to be sufficient. I also have the Toronto Notes as a reference. I use TN when I find that a certian topic is insufficiently covered in Kaplan. I'm also planning to subscribe to the usmleworld.com QBank.

I really regret wasting the invaluable 3 months b/w the 6th grade and internship. If you can make use of these months, that would be awsome.

Regarding USCE, I totally agree with you that it is becoming invaluable for the application. I actually planned a couple of electives at reputable US institutions a couple of times (George Washington and Cornell). Unfortunately I wasn't able to make it to either of them for some personal reasons. I have trained in the UK instead. Although this adds a flavor to your resume, it is by no means a substitute for a hands-on USCE.

As you r still considered a student between your finishing of the sixth grade and the coming out of the results (You can take a shahada from sho2oon el talaba that states u r still a student), I strongly advise you to start planning for an elective in the US, especially if u r planning to apply for a surgical specialty. After qualifying, it will be next to impossible to do so..So hurry up. What I'm planning to do is to get an observership, which, just like UK clinical experience, is not very highly regarded.

You may wish to add some other stuff that may spice up your resume, like gaining ALS Providor Certificates from the Egyptian/European Resuscitation Council...etc

I have an Egyptian/Canadian friend who is almost exactly in the same boat as yourself. He is taking MCCEE (in London) in Jan 10th, 2007 after Step 2 CK in December 12, 2006. He is not, however, putting much hope on the Canadian side of things, but it is definitely worth giving it a try...

Wish I was of help to you Knight MD and others..

Good luck!!!!!!!

 

[Knight_MD]

Hey Knight, thanks for the reply.

Anyway, let's move to the hot topic..

I'm in my 7th month of internship right now. My internship started on March 1st, 2006. I haven't started preparing for the CK exam till June. My schedule is actually very laid back and relaxed. I study the Kaplan notes. I have gone thru some videos but have just found the notes to be sufficient. I also have the Toronto Notes as a reference. I use TN when I find that a certian topic is insufficiently covered in Kaplan. I'm also planning to subscribe to the usmleworld.com QBank.

I really regret wasting the invaluable 3 months b/w the 6th grade and internship. If you can make use of these months, that would be awsome.

Regarding USCE, I totally agree with you that it is becoming invaluable for the application. I actually planned a couple of electives at reputable US institutions a couple of times (George Washington and Cornell). Unfortunately I wasn't able to make it to either of them for some personal reasons. I have trained in the UK instead. Although this adds a flavor to your resume, it is by no means a substitute for a hands-on USCE.

As you r still considered a student between your finishing of the sixth grade and the coming out of the results (You can take a shahada from sho2oon el talaba that states u r still a student), I strongly advise you to start planning for an elective in the US, especially if u r planning to apply for a surgical specialty. After qualifying, it will be next to impossible to do so..So hurry up. What I'm planning to do is to get an observership, which, just like UK clinical experience, is not very highly regarded.

You may wish to add some other stuff that may spice up your resume, like gaining ALS Providor Certificates from the Egyptian/European Resuscitation Council...etc

I have an Egyptian/Canadian friend who is almost exactly in the same boat as yourself. He is taking MCCEE (in London) in Jan 10th, 2007 after Step 2 CK in December 12, 2006. He is not, however, putting much hope on the Canadian side of things, but it is definitely worth giving it a try...

Wish I was of help to you Knight MD and others..

Good luck!!!!!!!

You were a great help indeed. Anyway, during the current year, I emailed about 20 US universities, inquiring about their electives, and most importantly, whether or not I'll be considered a student between 6th and internship. Most were unclear about it, however, many said that I have to be a student during the time of the elective... so I'll just take the paper from sho2oon el-talaba (The kind lady there told me it will say I'm a student of year 2005-2006... not sure that's gonna work). But I'm hoping for the best.

A roadblock I faced was the US$ 1,000,000 "student insurance" many electives are requiring. That was a bummer. Another one, was regarding the Independant Egyptian Organization responsible for interviewing elective candidates and "matching" them to US electives. Are they trustworthy? (Maybe you have some personal experience with them) Or did you just plan your electives independantly (or through personal contacts)?

On a totally different matter, I was planning on attending some educational surgical courses at Ahmed Maher hospital during my internship year... Because I heard from many interns I know that this year at the Uni is all about med girls getting married , and has very little to do with improving surgical/clinical skills... would the course(s) be a good idea?

Now a valid question, if you're going to end ur internship next March, won't you be starting your Obligatory Station "takleef" by then? How then, do you plan to sit for Step 1 in summer, and apply for the match in September? Or are you planning on postponing the whole "takleef/ta3yeen" till September?

I'd also appreciate a little more info regarding the Advanced Life Support Providor Certificates. I already took a "1st Aid" course 3 years ago, and it has the stamp on it and could be made internationally-acceptable if that's what you're talking about.

 

[Moslem Doctor]

Thanks a lot for the correction Fascia Lata, I was this close to changing my entire plan.

Actually, I'm taking Step 2 1st (and I advise you to do so too, if u haven't started studying yet) because you will be able to study Surgery, Obs.Gyna, and Internal Medicine much easier and faster with the information fresh in your mind having just taken a mind numbing final year exam, in a year that lasted 13 months, after another year that lasted 15 months (if you're in Ain Shams Uni).

If you start opening your Anatomy, Physiology, Bio, Path, Pharma...etc books all over again, you will lose (forget) a great deal of the formerly mentioned subjects studied in 5th and 6th year.

The fact that Step 1 is clinically oriented (and you're right, it is), means that you should better take the Step 1 exam after u finish 6th year, and not after 3rd year (as many do). That's all.

Step 1, being more important in the residency application, requires more concentration, dedication, and time. So, it's better to take it after having gone through Step 2 (which u studied for in a short period of time) and focus on Step 1 for the rest of the training year.

Thanx a lot Moslem (actually correct spelling is "Muslim" ) doctor for the comments on Kaplan video. It totally relieved me and will save a lot of time if one studied and solved MCQs instead of listening to lectures explaining subjects that have already been explained over and over again throughout the years.... Thanks

Either way, good luck to you

TC, Salam

Asalamo alekom DR Knight
iam so thankful for your advise and it makes sense to me really , I feel i will re think again about my plan for taking usmle exam in my internship year although i already bought most of step one books from abroad !!
But can you give me hint about your plan for usmle step two study ? i mean your sources , what u will start by and what next, when u will seriously start and what is the expected time u think u can get over each material ?

note: when i told you that u cant take step two before one ,this i said because this what i were sure from , if i wasnt sure ( i talk about myself ) i wasnt to advise in this way , but i asked again some doctors and they confirmed what Doctor Lata told before , so forgive me please .

I want we be with eachother when starting our journey to take usmle as i dont know any who will go to take in same time i will do , and this help so much and encourage the one as u know .

note for Doctor lata ((By the way, I totally agree that brother Moslem Doctor has to work a lot on his language skills, sorry but u really have to.))

sorry with whom u agree?(i didnt see any one here mention this so u comment on it) If this advise was for Allah sake and not for any other reasons in yourself , you was to write it by better way , any way when u want write something , write it directly plz

thanks all

 

[DustyDog]

You may wish to add some other stuff that may spice up your resume, like gaining ALS Providor Certificates from the Egyptian/European Resuscitation Council...etc

Hey Mohammed,

I've been followin the posts exchanged between you & KnightMD which turned out to be a very interesting and informative discussion.
Actually Mohammed, i spend alot of my time on SDN Forums just reading your posts!
but I have some questions.

what is an ALS certificate?

why didn't u subscribe in Kaplan Qbank instead of usmleworld Qbank?

how do you apply for electives in US Medical schools?

how can you improve your resume (other than scores, USCE)?

btw i was checking out some of the old threads, I found a post of yours mentioning you were to take a graduate course in AUC.
Did u find the time to take it? & just out of curiosity what was it about?

Thanks Mohammed

PLz guys both Fascia Lata & KnightMD keep posting in public, no PMs because your discussions are invaluable!

 

[Fascia Lata]

note for Doctor lata ((By the way, I totally agree that brother Moslem Doctor has to work a lot on his language skills, sorry but u really have to.))

sorry with whom u agree?(i didnt see any one here mention this so u comment on it) If this advise was for Allah sake and not for any other reasons in yourself , you was to write it by better way , any way when u want write something , write it directly plz

thanks all

To Moslem Doctor,

I am deeply sorry you took me the worg way. May be I was too harsh, but take it for granted that the advice I gave u was for Allah's sake, as we're here to help eachother out rather than give worthless complements. I apologize, anyway, if you felt offended.

To Knight_MD and DustyDog,

Thank you guys for the prompt replies. I'm sorry I'm too busy at the moment as I'm in the middle of something, but I will post a reply to both of you today ISA when I'm done with the couple of things I am busy with.

Take care,

Mohamed

 

[medisland]

Hi,
I came by your discussion which is really comprehensive & helping. But I'd like to comment on some points you mentioned which I think might be useful from my own experience;

. Step1 may not be more important for residency application, as many hospitals are concerned more with students clinical performance & knowledge.
. Kaplan videos are SO important specially for step 1, & help much for step 2, I advice you guys to stick to them no matter how boring.
. USMLEworld Q is better for step 2 ck & cs, Kaplan q bank better for step 1.
. Malpractice insurance stated 1 million per incident & 3 million per aggregate is what hospitals mention, but the actual cost comes down to around $3 thousand for IMGs/elective I guess (Not more!).
. As for resume's, Scores are most important for IMGs applying for residencies(#1), then comes US clinical experience(#2) but still important. Then some students apply for research work which comes last.
. A good last advice would be to always check your steps with older graduates who are already going through the process or did it before, their advices will benefit alot. (besides surfing forums)

Wishing you guys the best always, Assalam Alikum.

 

[Knight_MD]

Thanks a lot, medisland.

Can you give us a briefing of what extra we should do in our internship (imtiaz) year? Publications, research?

Thanks.

 

[medisland]

Hello Knight,

Any "HANDS ON" experience would benefit alot. I'd rather advice to start looking for elective or observership programs if you tend to apply for resedencies in the States.
Doing Research would differ only if it was made in the States, Program directors are used to IMG students filling up their resumes with fraud researches, so if you can do it there will be better.

Take Care,

 

[Moslem Doctor]

Dear doctor medisland , thank you for your always advise
but we have really big trouble now , because electives in usa always need students who are not graduated yet , and we now in the 6th year and we going to end it after about two months then we start our internship (traning year;imtiaz) so from your experience do you think we are eligable to attend such electives during our internship , we are graduted or not yet!? and if we already graduted there is any way that we can take paper from student affairs considering us as still student inside?
thank you

 

[medisland]

Hello Moslem,

I guess you'll need to refer back to your student affairs office for this issue then. Some medical schools consider their students as students till they finish their internship year, others consider them as students till the start of the internship year, others cut it short to once they've finished their core subjects. I wish yours lies anywhere but the last. lol.

Take care,

 

[rox]

Hello everybody,

I have a couple of questions. Briefly, I am a med student from Jordan.
Here we do 3 yrs basic science and then 3 yrs clinical practice. Fourth yr and 6th yr have similar rotations(IM,Ped,Surgery). I've just started my 4th yr. Do you think it would be a good idea if I start studying USMLE step2 books/questions from now on so that I can take step 2 right away after I graduate?

I would appreciate it if someone can answer/lead to a thorough thread about the following questions:

What are the topics in Step2? Surgery, Obstetrics..?
What are the best textbooks/Q banks/Videos for step2?
What is necessary of the abovementioned stuff and what is not?
What makes a certain book "better"?

 

[Jasmine26]

hey whats up, Im an egyptian living in Canada, trying to get in med school.
Just wanted to say hi

 

[Knight_MD]

Hello everybody,

I have a couple of questions. Briefly, I am a med student from Jordan.
Here we do 3 yrs basic science and then 3 yrs clinical practice. Fourth yr and 6th yr have similar rotations(IM,Ped,Surgery). I've just started my 4th yr. Do you think it would be a good idea if I start studying USMLE step2 books/questions from now on so that I can take step 2 right away after I graduate?

I would appreciate it if someone can answer/lead to a thorough thread about the following questions:

What are the topics in Step2? Surgery, Obstetrics..?
What are the best textbooks/Q banks/Videos for step2?
What is necessary of the abovementioned stuff and what is not?
What makes a certain book "better"?

Bad idea. For international (non-american) graduates, it's much better to take Step 1 (Basic science) after you finish all your clinical rotations (this advice is officially given on the usmle.org website as well). For 2 reasons:
1) The Step 1 exam is clinically oriented.
2) The Step 1 score is VERY important. You mustn't rush into it at all.

Best scenario would be taking Step 2 right after u graduate, then Step 1.
Best textbook: Kaplan. It's not the best source per se, but the exam comes straight out of it.
Best MCQ bank: Usmleworld. It costs money (is taken online), but is definetly worth it.

 

[hunter55]

Hi all
I have been in usa for 4 months doing clinical elective in general surgery at different hospitals. I am in internship year in Egypt. Here is some facts:
1) Clinical experiance in usa is a must, it is as important as the usmle score if
you are interested in surgical speciality or even medical speciality at highly
rated places.
2) I was considered undergraduate till i get my Deploma Certificate at the
end of Internship year. so prepare your papers on that way.
3) Here is a website that offer electives for IMG (http://services.aamc.org/eec/student.cfm). You must choose (accepting IMG) choice before doing the search.
4) After that go to each medical school link and start to see what is the requirments.
5) alot of hospitals didnt want malpractice insurance. But they all requested a health insurance which u can purchase from (El Shark leltameen).

 

[Knight_MD]

Thanks a million for this information...

I have a question regarding your General Surgery elective. I was told that in General Surgery in particular, whether the elective is hands on or hands off, it's always hands-off and you never get to touch the patient anyway... Also, in both cases, if you ask to touch the patient they allow you to... now is there any truth to that?

 

[Moslem Doctor]

Dear dr hunter 2 milliom thanks from mine hehehe
plz check the link as it appear dont work
and if you can give me your phone number on private , i will be thankful
thank u again

 

[Moslem Doctor]

and please explain for us this !
Amount of coverage required: $25,000 per incident / $75,000 aggregate
Cost for malpractice coverage: $1-49 what each mean? thanks

 

[hunter55]

Dear All
You are allowed to put your hand, but just ask, they will not be against it, even more, they will be surpirsed that u are interested, and want to work and interact not just observing.

For malpractice insurance: there is alot alot of places that doesnt require malpractice insurance, so just search for these palces only.


the right link is :
http://www.aamc.org/students/medstudents/electives/start.htm
then press on the (2006–07 Extramural Electives Compendium) link on the right side.