Frieda work hour stats, are they accurate?

[powerofequality]

This is really just a curiosity question for me, I'll be applying to this specialty regardless, but most of the program descriptions on Frieda say the average work week is 50-65 hours for the programs I looked at. I was wondering if this is in fact what one would expect as a Rehab resident or if we should expect an 80+ hour work week as in some specialties. I'm certain work hours are program dependent but if anyone has first-hand knowledge on this I'd be interested to find out what a realistic approximation is.

Hope everything's well with all the fresh interns and PGY-2's.

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[RangerBob]

Congrats on choosing the best specialty out there.

The hours sounds about right to me--I'm working around 60hrs a week right now and it's one of the heaviest inpatient months at my program. Lighter months could be much less, and outpatient rotations could be closer to 40-50hrs/week.

I don't think there are too many PM&R programs where you'd be pushing 80hrs/week. I'm sure there's a few--I know UW and RIC residents work really hard, but I'm still not sure if they're near 80hrs a week. In general programs with in-house call tend to be busier programs (though home-call can have it's downsides as well)

Life is good in the world of PM&R--we get to do what we love, and we get to get away from that and spend time with the ones we love as well.

Best of luck on the interview trail--I thought it was a blast.

 

[Paddington]

Your best bet would be to talk to a resident already in the program. Ask them what time they come in and what time they leave for an accurate answer, as well as how often/busy the in house call (if applicable).

That said 8-5:30 hours are generally the norm in PM&R, even on inpatient. 7 or 6 a.m. starts like medicine or surgery are uncommon, but there's exceptions to that.

 

[DubVille]

After my first month on supposedly the "busiest service" I am averaging 45-50 hrs a week. That is with q7 24 hr shifts in-house. I also have averaged 7 hours of sleep on these calls and then have a free day off post call. Feels like part-time compared to last year. The R4s keep telling me to "make it through" and how it gets better..... Seems great to me!

 

[padresp]

I was at one of the aforementioned large programs, and I never broke duty hours. I'd be surprised if anyone else at my program did either. For the record, the rule is basically 320 hours in 4 weeks; you're allowed to go over 80 as long as it averages out over the month. I hit 80 hours a couple of times, but that included having a Saturday-to-Sunday call and a rough service. I averaged about 60-70 hours/wk on the tougher services, which wasn't easy, but was definitely easier than, say, neurosurgery. It's still a grind doing a year of inpatient, but it's not as bad as other specialties for sure. No matter what you end up doing in terms of hours, you'll adapt.

 

[lobelsteve]

PMR hours? Please remember your predecessors in medicine who had to learn by exhaustive experience with 120 hrs per week for years. I think 80 hrs may be too little for some specialties. 40 is ample time for PMR and should include all the reading you would need to pass boards and practice.

 

[holyhekshler]

I don't know the answer for everywhere but I did a month at Spaulding this year and rounding started at 7:30am for inpatient, by the time I would get in at 7:15am it seemed like all of the residents were already in. I left more than a few times after 7pm as a student. I think definitely within 80h still but probably the residents get close to that on inpatient months. I think they are listed as like 50 hours average on Freida which seems a little lighter than reality.

 

[PMR_doc]

I don't know the answer for everywhere but I did a month at Spaulding this year and rounding started at 7:30am for inpatient, by the time I would get in at 7:15am it seemed like all of the residents were already in. I left more than a few times after 7pm as a student. I think definitely within 80h still but probably the residents get close to that on inpatient months. I think they are listed as like 50 hours average on Freida which seems a little lighter than reality.

I think it depends, but at Spaulding some of the inpatient rotations do start around 7-7:15am at least that's what I recall from when I rotated there. Others start later. I don't see though why any program would start any earlier than 8am.

 

[RUOkie]

I think it depends, but at Spaulding some of the inpatient rotations do start around 7-7:15am at least that's what I recall from when I rotated there. Others start later. I don't see though why any program would start any earlier than 8am.

back when I used to do inpatient, my staffing rounds were at 7am. Private practice docs who do a mix of inpt and outpt want to be done with all hospital responsibility by 9am when they start seeing people in their office. Even now, when I do the occasional consult in the hospital, I'm there by 7am at the latest.

 

[PMR_doc]

back when I used to do inpatient, my staffing rounds were at 7am. Private practice docs who do a mix of inpt and outpt want to be done with all hospital responsibility by 9am when they start seeing people in their office. Even now, when I do the occasional consult in the hospital, I'm there by 7am at the latest.

Spaulding docs are not private practice docs, they just work there. Why would academic docs round so early with residents, particularly if that's all they do and they don't have clinic?

 

[j4pac]

LOL. It's PM&R...you will have a great lifestyle in even the hardest PM&R residencies in comparison to practically any other residency. From what I have read the big difference comes in home versus in-house call. Most of the programs with independent rehab facilities require in-house call...really as a necessity. But those also happen to be the programs with stronger reputations, so the extra work will likely be worth it.

 

[TXPMR]

Beware for the ever so tempting "home call." Home call can be a lot worse than in house call.

During the week I'd much rather take in house call since A. I'm usually already at or near the hospital and B. I get the next (week) day off. On home call you can get calls all night while and this does not count towards your duty hours. Even when you do have to go in to the hospital on home call, at most places I've heard of, you're expected to report for work the following morning as if nothing happened.

The only time home call > in house call is on the weekends because at least on home call you get to enjoy your weekends. Otherwise, don't let programs fool you into saying things are "cush" because they take a lot of home call in lieu of a lot of in house call. As was said above "lol...it's PM&R"...most times in house call in PM&R = day off the following day because you usually get sleep on PM&R in house call.

 

[holyhekshler]

I think it depends, but at Spaulding some of the inpatient rotations do start around 7-7:15am at least that's what I recall from when I rotated there. Others start later. I don't see though why any program would start any earlier than 8am.

Ha I know, it is legit my life goal to not show up anywhere before 8:30am. It seemed very busy there though, 20 patient census with just 1 resident and 1 attending, lots of notes, never really any down time.

LOL. It's PM&R...you will have a great lifestyle in even the hardest PM&R residencies in comparison to practically any other residency. From what I have read the big difference comes in home versus in-house call. Most of the programs with independent rehab facilities require in-house call...really as a necessity. But those also happen to be the programs with stronger reputations, so the extra work will likely be worth it.

I semi agree with this, my significant other is an R2 doing internal medicine at a big academic program now and his life sucks big time 10 months out of the year, still >>>>>surgery. It's all relative. Still, I think some of these PM&R programs during 2nd year could give IM/Neuro/others a run for their money in terms of hours.

 

[holyhekshler]

Beware for the ever so tempting "home call." Home call can be a lot worse than in house call.

During the week I'd much rather take in house call since A. I'm usually already at or near the hospital and B. I get the next (week) day off. On home call you can get calls all night while and this does not count towards your duty hours. Even when you do have to go in to the hospital on home call, at most places I've heard of, you're expected to report for work the following morning as if nothing happened.

The only time home call > in house call is on the weekends because at least on home call you get to enjoy your weekends. Otherwise, don't let programs fool you into saying things are "cush" because they take a lot of home call in lieu of a lot of in house call. As was said above "lol...it's PM&R"...most times in house call in PM&R = day off the following day because you usually get sleep on PM&R in house call.

This is good advice, thanks.

 

[DubVille]

I couldn't imagine doing home call especially on weekends. From 9-2, Is usually somewhat busy. Even though most patients are lower acuity when you cover general, ortho, stroke, tbi it can be easily 50 patients here. New nurses come on
, BPs are slightly high, hr is "102", patient feels chest "twinges/pain", sob, etc. it's almost always BS but I can't imagine trying to have a free day answering 4-8 pages an hour until mid afternoon. I've been surprised by the "VIP" ortho patients that really only come because they can pay, some are the neediest patients I have ever met. Meanwhile the poly trauma recent double amputee is chilling everyday. I had a nurse page me because a patient refused to have meds administered by a anyone but her concierge doctor, or another physician at 3 am!!! Discharging her was the greatest moment if my life.

/rant