PhD/PsyD "Friends" in program

[affectiveH3art]

I am wondering. Is jealously an issue in programs? Or hostility towards another? I am a first year student and have recently gotten an office with my adviser (no one else has one) plus may be defending my specialty paper next semester. Typically in my program you have to have meet requirements (e.g. completed psych core, 2 years practicum, etc) before you defend but my advisor is pushing it through.

I kind of feel like others in my cohort are jealous and are a little hostile because of my situation. Is it just me or is this common? I am pretty forward and have no problem applying myself 24/7 to achieve, some of my cohort are still transitioning.

Does anyone have feedback, experience with this experience? I hate to think people are just "jealous" that I have my dissertation set just in my first year (especially being a mom of 2) and they have no idea yet.

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[KillerDiller]

Jealousy can come up, sure. As long as you remain friendly and understanding of those feelings, though, it shouldn't become any sort of huge issue. You're all civilized human beings, after all.

That being said, for your own sake, I encourage you to take a look at how you may be thinking about the situation. Although I'm sure you are very driven, can't at least some of what you describe be attributable to lucking out with a generous adviser? Pretty much all graduate students are driven. I think you risk alienating your cohort if you start to think of yourself as "applying myself 24/7 to achieve" and thinking of them as working less hard in their lives.

Everyone goes at their own pace through graduate school, it's definitely a marathon and not a sprint.

 

[MCParent]

I never experienced a climate of hostility in my program, personally. There are always going to be a few people with whom your personality will clash, certainly, but I've never seen the sort of outright hostile stuff some people post about on here. I'm sure it must be rough.

That being said, you seem to be solely attributing your relations to tall poppy syndrome, though your interactions with everyone are just that--interactive. Not knowing you at all, I'd frankly wonder what you're contributing to the interaction problem; it's challenging to believe that everyone else is simply envious.

 

[affectiveH3art]

Killer you have a point. I do believe I have an advantage because my advisor is well known for pushing through in his "style" of advising. He is also retiring in the next 5 years so being his last student I am aware that he has alternative motives. I am friendly with everyone but I feel a little unsettled because a close friend has stopped interaction completely and others are more quiet with me. But maybe I am over thinking it. I do believe everyone has there own progression through the program, I don't believe I am any "better" than anyone. I just feel a little left out now, my cohort organize social events and don't invite and don't converse with me much. The only thing that has occurred is my adviser has been vocal (jokingly) how great I am. I just recently had a child and came back the next week so it seems to be a hot topic with faculty (they have expressed how impressed they are with me coming back so soon). But maybe I am wrong?

 

[affectiveH3art]

MC I do have to consider that. Maybe my transition in having a child is what is creating this distance? That would explain a lot. Hard to put my finger on it because there are multiple factors that I have to consider. I probably am overthinking it.

 

[cara susanna]

In addition to what KillerDiller and MC said, I would encourage you to maybe look outside of your cohort for social interaction. From my experience, first year your cohort is pretty insular, and some could even be called cliquey, but as you progress you start to form relationships with the more senior and junior students. I would actually encourage any first years to start forming these types of relationships sooner, even if they aren't having any problems with their cohort.

You can also look outside of your program or department. I had some problems with my own cohort during the second half of my first year, to the point where they sometimes didn't invite me to social events, so I just hung out with my husband (then boyfriend)'s friends. Honestly, it was actually kind of better because they never discussed psychology or classes or things that stressed me out. Second year I was able to form some friendships with the younger and older students in my program as well.

 

[PhDToBe]

Honestly, it does seem like it is unfair for an exception to be made for you to defend your paper before having completed both (?) prerequisites. This does not mean your cohort should exclude you, but perhaps you should look at the situation from their perspective. It might behoove you to talk to them about it.

 

[affectiveH3art]

Phd that is a valid point. And I do think expanding friendships from beyond my program would be beneficial. I believe sometimes I feel obligated to be friends with my cohort since we are in the program together, but maybe I should view it differently. And connecting with "older" cohorts would be fun, they are great people.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Has it been the case that they previously invited you to social outings, but you declined initially and so perhaps now they've just stopped asking? Or maybe they figure that because you're a mother of two, you wouldn't be interested? Is there a large age difference between you and the others in your cohort?

Regardless, you could always try initiating the interactions yourself. You know, just a standard, "hey all, anything going on this week/weekend?"

I can say that at least in my program, folks typically knew who the stronger and weaker students were (all relative, of course; even the "weak" ones were often still strong comparatively), and that generally wasn't held against anyone unless said person also happened to be a jerk.

 

[MCParent]

I just recently had a child

Oh, missed this. It's possible that your (younger? childless?) cohortmates also assume you are too busy, in addition to above.

 

[futureapppsy2]

I'm going to be blunt here and say that your posts in this thread honestly strike me as a bit arrogant, and so I wouldn't be surprised if they were coming across to your cohort this way. It reads very much as "none of the rules that apply to you all apply to me because I'm so much more driven than you guys, isn't that awesome?" Also, academia tends to have a culture of indirect competition--you quietly amass all the credentials (grants, publications, etc) you can, but you also play them down with your colleagues. Finally, I don't think coming back a week after you have a baby (congratulations, btw! ) is necessarily more (or less) impressive than taking more maternity leave--it's a very personal decision that depends on a variety of factors, many of them completely out of your control. If some of your cohortmates have kids as well, the faculty adoration of this could be rubbing them the wrong way and that could be rubbing off on you.

Or it could be none of this and just be natural cohort drift, garden variety passive aggressiveness, etc.

 

[MCParent]

I wouldn't be surprised if they were coming across to your cohort this way.

I too, wondered.

 

[KillerDiller]

I don't know, I don't think the OP comes off as arrogant. There was maybe a little of that tone in the first post, but certainly not on her other posts. Honestly, OP, I'd bet it's much more about the fact that you're recently back after maternity leave. Maybe people simply assume you don't have as much time to go out and/or chat. Although it's always good to maintain friendly relationships with your classmates, you don't have to rely on them for socialization. It may be best to just take it with a grain of salt and find others who want to be friends.

Of course, if the environment becomes downright toxic, that's a bit of a different picture.

 

[Doctor Eliza]

My cohort was extremely close and I still consider them some of my best friends (even if we live thousands of miles apart!) There also was definite favoritism in my program, but everyone was able to keep it out of the relationships.

 

[Marissa4usa]

Given that the OP is a mom of two, I assume that she is also older than her cohort. Being an "older" student myself (by 2 years for the entire cohort and 5 years for the clinical students), I feel I had to put in extra effort into staying connected. Most people in my cohort are between 22 and 25 and thus simply in a different place in regards to "life". While I think about what type of insulation is best for my house and how much money I should put towards a Roth IRA (yeah, I know super boring), they can spend literally hours talking about Dr. Who.

We are all extremely competent and driven to succeed, otherwise none of us would have been admitted to the program. And as far as I can tell, everybody in my cohort is doing well with keeping up with the demands of the program. But I noticed that especially those who are straight out of undergrad still have that mentality of putting a checkmark next to a box - at least to some extent, let it be a deadline for a class assignment or a deadline their adviser gives them. Obviously, they were at the top compared to their peers in their undergrad program in terms of working independently, etc. but at least in my program you can tell pretty well that those who did a master's or worked in between undergrad and grad school, are better in terms of thinking ahead and planning long-term. At this point, I am about to submit to first-author pubs and have a pretty solid idea for my dissertation (which, of course, will likely be modulated) that I have discussed with my adviser and other professors whereas most students are still muddling with their year-1 project. And part of the reason is that I spoke to my adivser at the very beginning and told him that I want to do A,B, and C and I want those to have happened by these dates and if that sounded okay with him. I am aware that this is not the norm, but having a very detailed plan will hopefully allow me to accomplish everything I want in 5 years.

I don't think that there is anything wrong with sharing this information with your cohort and if they are jealous (in whatever shape or form) that should not be the OP's problem. Obviously, if she was rubbing into their faces as if she was better than them, that's a different story. To me, it sounds like she has her s**t together and is able to work efficiently towards her goals. My guess is that even if her adviser tends to be someone who pushes for student to pass this hurdle earlier than other students, the department would still need to give their permission and if they thought she couldn't handle it, they wouldn't let her defend the paper. Moreover, while it can certainly a bit embarrassing if your adviser praises you publicly, it is not like the other students were told that they suck.

 

[affectiveH3art]

Seeing people's responses I can see the distance is probably attributed to a significant age difference as well different life position. I also do not want to come off as arrogant, and I hope my cohort does not believe this. I think I should be more open and be the one to ask what others are doing. I spoke to one of the students recently and they said that I just appeared busy and that I did not "seem"like someone who goes to the bars (I'm not). Maybe I should be the one to organize more family orientated events as well. And I am pretty aware that everyone develops different in their program, we have a fairly strong group. Sometimes I feel I have to work a little differently since I am a mom of 2 and I am not single, also to add to that I do not have a masters whereas others do. Maybe I look more busy than I feel?

 

[AcronymAllergy]

Seeing people's responses I can see the distance is probably attributed to a significant age difference as well different life position. I also do not want to come off as arrogant, and I hope my cohort does not believe this. I think I should be more open and be the one to ask what others are doing. I spoke to one of the students recently and they said that I just appeared busy and that I did not "seem"like someone who goes to the bars (I'm not). Maybe I should be the one to organize more family orientated events as well. And I am pretty aware that everyone develops different in their program, we have a fairly strong group. Sometimes I feel I have to work a little differently since I am a mom of 2 and I am not single, also to add to that I do not have a masters whereas others do. Maybe I look more busy than I feel?

Very possible. That, and you've said it yourself--you and your cohortmates seem to be in fairly different places lifestyle-wise, so it's very possible that you won't enjoy/be interested in the types of things they typically plan and vice-versa. That's of course not to say that you and they can't hang out, just that it may not happen as frequently as would be the case with folks with whom you have more in common. From my own perspective (i.e., single and with no children), I can say that in general, my married friends (particularly those with children, and whether in grad school, internship, postdoc, or outside of school altogether) do typically enjoy and plan different types of events than do my single friends. Thus, we do hang out together less-frequently now than in the past, but we still manage to find ways to have fun that everyone can get into.

 

[smalltownpsych]

I am surprised that your cohort has much time to hang out at all. We generally got together to celebrate the end of semesters and that was about it. very busy meeting all the requirements of the program. My cohort had many non-traditional students (read older people ) so many of us had to balance family obligations, as well. Another point to consider, my experience was that in the pressure cooker of the doctoral program and as we begin to develop our professional identity, there is a lot going on psychologically and this comes out in a lot of different ways. The ones who can utilize and develop adaptive coping strategies appear to be the ones who make it. One of my strategies was watching the DVDs of Buffy the Vampire Slayer with my wife! A great way to decompress.

 

[AcronymAllergy]

I am surprised that your cohort has much time to hang out at all. We generally got together to celebrate the end of semesters and that was about it. very busy meeting all the requirements of the program. My cohort had many non-traditional students (read older people ) so many of us had to balance family obligations, as well. Another point to consider, my experience was that in the pressure cooker of the doctoral program and as we begin to develop our professional identity, there is a lot going on psychologically and this comes out in a lot of different ways. The ones who can utilize and develop adaptive coping strategies appear to be the ones who make it. One of my strategies was watching the DVDs of Buffy the Vampire Slayer with my wife! A great way to decompress.

My vice was Smallville back in grad school.

Also, it's been mentioned elsewhere multiple times on this forum (and may have even been said here already that I missed), but having friends outside the program is also a great way to help improve your overall sanity. Personally, I had multiple friends who were also grad students, but in other disciplines; this was nice because we each understood some of the common parlance and experiences (e.g., comps, thesis, dissertation), but because our areas of study were so disparate, we never really delved into any of it all that much.

 

[affectiveH3art]

Update: I have come to find out that there has been many program issues, so it was not just me (or my perception)...we had a hired program evaluator come in due to the "crisis" of our climate in the program. So it has been interesting to know that I am not the only one...it's a little concerning because we have an APA visit soon. Very disappointing to know that many students are unhappy with the program and quite hostile. How easy is it to lose APA accreditation due to climate issues?

 

[Therapist4Chnge]

My vice was Smallville back in grad school.

I watched the entire series of both "The West Wing" and "Dawson's Creek" while I did research/wrote/edited/etc.

ps. Smallville was surprisingly entertaining, once they allowed some of the longer story arcs come to the forefront. "Creature of the Week" was meh...but I think the casting was spot on and the writing helped. I still have to watch the last couple of seasons...one of these years.

 

[smalltownpsych]

Update: I have come to find out that there has been many program issues, so it was not just me (or my perception)...we had a hired program evaluator come in due to the "crisis" of our climate in the program. So it has been interesting to know that I am not the only one...it's a little concerning because we have an APA visit soon. Very disappointing to know that many students are unhappy with the program and quite hostile. How easy is it to lose APA accreditation due to climate issues?

I wouldn't think that the climate alone would be enough to lose accreditation. Also, usually with accreditation reviews there is a chance to rectify problems and it sounds like your program is already taking some of those steps. So I wouldn't worry too much. Of course, that's easy for me to say

 

[affectiveH3art]

I wouldn't think that the climate alone would be enough to lose accreditation. Also, usually with accreditation reviews there is a chance to rectify problems and it sounds like your program is already taking some of those steps. So I wouldn't worry too much. Of course, that's easy for me to say

I would hope climate would not alone be enough to lose accreditation, but it is a little worrisome when I have become aware of the severity of the hostility within the program. Crossing my fingers

 

[futureapppsy2]

APA doesn't revoke accreditation without putting programs on probation first and giving them fairly specific directives for improvement, so I wouldn't worry too much.

On another note, I've never understood why APA thinks that students with the slightest bit of sense are going to say anything bad about their program to accreditors. If the program's accreditation is revoked, it's the current's students' careers that are irrevocably damaged.

 

[affectiveH3art]

APA doesn't revoke accreditation without putting programs on probation first and giving them fairly specific directives for improvement, so I wouldn't worry too much.

On another note, I've never understood why APA thinks that students with the slightest bit of sense are going to say anything bad about their program to accreditors. If the program's accreditation is revoked, it's the current's students' careers that are irrevocably damaged.

That's what many of the students are saying, but unfortunately the one's that are complaining seem to misunderstand the process and want someone to "intervene" to fix climate issues. APA accreditation has no power in this. Personally, I don't understand why...but either way I hope it's quiet when visitation occurs. I wish we could vote people of the island...