From a fiscal standpoint, what would be the best way to pay off med school?

[Near]

In these tough economic times?

The person in specific is not financially wealthy. He will be paying for college via scholarships, and his parents will not be fiscal contributors.

The military?

Or would taking on the debt be more fiscally advantageous than the military?

Any other programs?


From a purely fiscal standpoint...

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[ChubbyChaser]

I think unless hes going to some ridiculously expensive school such as Wayne state for OOSers (80K?? I think)...it would probably be better to just take the debt, rather than working 4 years for the military.

 

[baily34]

Nothing is ever from a purely fiscal standpoint. It would depend alot on what you want to do. I would only do the military if that is what you want to do as a career or its going to be hell. There are also programs available if you want to go into primary care, but again that involves what you want to do, not just fiscal insentives.

 

[funkymunkytoes]

In these tough economic times?

The person in specific is not financially wealthy. He will be paying for college via scholarships, and his parents will not be fiscal contributors.

The military?

Or would taking on the debt be more fiscally advantageous than the military?

Any other programs?


From a purely fiscal standpoint...

Ummmm. I don't quite understand. Paying for college via scholarships IS the best way to pay off medical school, it's free money.

 

[FrickenhugeMD]

In these tough economic times...

The person in specific is not financially wealthy. He will be paying for college via scholarships, and his parents will not be fiscal contributors.

The military?

Or would taking on the debt be more fiscally advantageous than the military?

Any other programs?


From a purely fiscal standpoint..

Loans???

seriously, its what us "normals" do

 

[FrickenhugeMD]

But, in a best case scenario scholarships based on merit (college coursework, ect.) for full or partial ride are the way to go. These are also very hard to get

 

[Law2Doc]

In these tough economic times...

The person in specific is not financially wealthy. He will be paying for college via scholarships, and his parents will not be fiscal contributors.

The military?

Or would taking on the debt be more fiscally advantageous than the military?

Any other programs?


From a purely fiscal standpoint..

People use loans, savings, small scholarships, and whatever they can earn during the summer after first year. Some folks get some help from family, others have spouses who work. The military tends to be of limited popularity because the time they require after med school tends to more than offset any benefit of the money they provide, and so unless you were excited about a career in the military, you probably would be better off taking out loans and repaying them over the years you would lose to the military.

 

[docscience]

part time stripper?

 

[Near]

Ummmm. I don't quite understand. Paying for college via scholarships IS the best way to pay off medical school, it's free money.

He will have undergrad covered yes, but not medical school. He just wants to know "if" there are any scholarships within the reach of the average medical school bound person, and what they are.

And no, he's not going to a super elite school. He lives in Florida and plans on going in-state.

 

[Law2Doc]

part time stripper?

Only a small subset of folks in medical school would qualify for this position; most have a better shot at a scholarship.

 

[meister]

Loans? Or if daddy's a neurosurgeon then have him pick up the tab as many do here at my school.

 

[Near]

Nothing is ever from a purely fiscal standpoint. It would depend alot on what you want to do. I would only do the military if that is what you want to do as a career or its going to be hell. There are also programs available if you want to go into primary care, but again that involves what you want to do, not just fiscal insentives.

What I meant was the most fiscally advantageous, regardless of whether someone loves or hates the military.

Of course this is only to satisfy my curiosity...not that the situation applies to me...

 

[DrYoda]

know "if" there are any scholarships within the reach of the average medical school bound person, and what they are.

There are scholarships, but you can't count on getting them, they're competative.

The majority of people just loan it out and then pay it back later. In which case minimizing debt should be the focus.

 

[Kaya12]

If you are looking for scholarships, National Health Service Corps is a program that offers scholarships as well as loan repayment in exchange for a commitment practice (primary care) in areas they deem in need. You can go to http://nhsc.bhpr.hrsa.gov to check it out. This program is competitive, and you must apply for acceptance.

Additionally, if you are in severe need of aid (aka, you probably got the FAP fee waiver through AMCAS, etc) you may also be able to take advantage of a similar tuition scholarship program. Need is based off your family/parental income, regardless of independent/dependent status for this determination. However, for this program as well they are looking for people interested in practicing primary care. You can find information about this by looking up need based scholarships for medical students, or talking to the financial aid office of the medical school to which you are accepted..

Other websites to check out are http://www.aamc.org/students/financing/md2/start.htm
and http://www.aamc.org/students/financing/start.htm

Furthermore, there are the options of USUHS (school) and HPSP (program). Both cover full tuition but require different terms of contract to the military. There are also many loans, grants etc. that are school specific, and you will find out more about these when you fill FAFSA for your particular school..

Good Luck

 

[slowbutsteady]

In these tough economic times?

The person in specific is not financially wealthy. He will be paying for college via scholarships, and his parents will not be fiscal contributors.

The military?

Or would taking on the debt be more fiscally advantageous than the military?

Any other programs?


From a purely fiscal standpoint...

I have never seen the word "fiscal" used so much in such a short paragraph. Fiscally-speaking, that is.

And what would be a non-fiscal standpoint from which we could view the problem?

And what's a "fiscal contributor?"

 

[Near]

There is no such thing as a non-fiscal standpoint in this question about fiscal matters.

I have never seen the word "fiscal" used so much in such a short paragraph. Fiscally-speaking, that is.

And what would be a non-fiscal standpoint from which we could view the problem?

And what's a "fiscal contributor?"

 

[funkymunkytoes]

I have never seen the word "fiscal" used so much in such a short paragraph. Fiscally-speaking, that is.

And what would be a non-fiscal standpoint from which we could view the problem?

And what's a "fiscal contributor?"

To be fiscally responsible, I will answer your fiscally related questions as follows: in the fiscal year of 2009, the most fiscally sound way to obtain fiscal fiscalities would be to use a fiscal contributor, or someone who fiscally contributes. Fiscal fiscal. Fiscal.

 

[Dirt]

What I meant was the most fiscally advantageous, regardless of whether someone loves or hates the military.

Of course this is only to satisfy my curiosity...not that the situation applies to me...

Fiscally...

It is obviously the military since you don't have to pay.

But shoot over to the military med forums and you will find ample evidence why deciding to go that route based on fiscality alone is a bad bad idea.

There are plenty of people who go 100% loans and do just fine ten years down the line.

 

[Kaya12]

To be fiscally responsible, I will answer your fiscally related questions as follows: in the fiscal year of 2009, the most fiscally sound way to obtain fiscal fiscalities would be to use a fiscal contributor, or someone who fiscally contributes. Fiscal fiscal. Fiscal.

haha hah ha. I tried to take it somewhere constructive... however, the word fiscal abounds.

 

[SirGecko]

Fiscally...

It is obviously the military since you don't have to pay.

But shoot over to the military med forums and you will find ample evidence why deciding to go that route based on fiscality alone is a bad bad idea.

There are plenty of people who go 100% loans and do just fine ten years down the line.

Actually you would be surprised. If you pop or over to mil med you can actually find some people crunching the numbers to show it is fiscally advantageous to take the military scholarships only for primary care and that's only a bare fiscal advantage. Fiscally the military isn't where the rewords are.






Fiscal.

 

[Excelsius]

But, in a best case scenario scholarships based on merit (college coursework, ect.) for full or partial ride are the way to go. These are also very hard to get

What about getting a paid research position? Not only you'll make some money to at least take of personal expenses, but you'll also get good research experience and possibly get published. From the allo thread, it seems that most medstudents have more than enough time to add research or work to their schedule, at least during the first two years.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

What about the MD/pHD route??? they pay for everything and you are a much more competitive applicant when applying for residency spots.....

 

[THX]

I think fiscal is code for something else.

 

[bibby]

I wouldn't do MD/PhD unless I was really into the research. The PhD part can take 3-7 years depending on your project and mentor, and although you receive the stipend, it usually takes ~10-13 years from the time you start med school to the time you start earning money. By that time, your MD peers have already started working and financially will be in the same situation....fiscally.

http://www.aamc.org/research/dbr/mdphd/applicantfaq.pdf

 

[Excelsius]

What about the MD/pHD route??? they pay for everything and you are a much more competitive applicant when applying for residency spots.....

You are actually losing money when you do MD/PhD. That's because those extra three years of income as a doctor add up to more than your medschool expense (in some cases a lot more). Plus it's harder to get into an MD/PhD program than it is to get into an MD program.

 

[ChubbyChaser]

You are actually losing money when you do MD/PhD. That's because those extra three years of income as a doctor add up to more than your medschool expense (in some cases a lot more). Plus it's harder to get into an MD/PhD program than it is to get into an MD program.

well dont Army docs get crap money as well?

 

[Excelsius]

well dont Army docs get crap money as well?

The army is much worse from financial standpoint. I think you have to put in at least one year of service for every year of scholarship. In some cases even longer. Someone was saying that it is almost impossible to set up a private practice when you have to travel for the military - can't build a patient base. That's why military or MD/PhD are options only if you really like them. From fiscal standpoint, they are not good choices. I still think that the best way to handle this is to try and work in a research lab at least during the first two years of medschool. Since paid research positions are offered to undergraduates, medstudents should have an easier time getting those jobs.

 

[atomi]

Only a small subset of folks in medical school would qualify for this position; most have a better shot at a scholarship.

Oddly enough there is a plethora of strippers in dental school.

 

[atomi]

I love how everybody on this thread thinks that post-residency income is guaranteed and takes it for granted. Like you just show up at work somewhere on day 1 and magically make huge bucks. Making money still requires innovation, hard work, and creativity, even in medicine just like everywhere else. It saddens me that so many people want to get this job because they think it's a surefire way to make a lot of money without taking risks. Even sadder was that it pretty much used to be that way. Looks like the racket that kept propping it up is finally crumbling apart like all cartels eventually do.

Go into this profession because you think you'll be better at it than anything else you could possibly do and because you love it. Those are the only two reasons for choosing a career, with the weight put on the first reason.

Go into the military because you want to serve and go for that reason only. If you want to serve, it's a great deal.

 

[Gut Shot]

In these tough economic times?

These aren't the times when the debt will be getting paid off.

The best path to paying off debt depends on a variety of individual factors. For instance, my loans are consolidated at 2.85% interest, and after setting up automatic payment and establishing a set number of on-time payments I can knock it lower. That's as close to free money as one can get, so I'm going to pay off my loans as slowly as possible. I have small, higher interest debts that I will dispense with as soon as I can.

Large educational loans at higher interest rates make the answer more complicated. You have to weigh your debt burden, physician income, investment options (matching funds for your 401k?), and most importantly your expenses. There is no single solution that will work for everybody.

All that said, if you have realistic expectations regarding your future income, don't incur more debt than you have to, plan you finances, and above all live within your means, you can live into a prosperous old age.

 

[Joe Postman]

I personally think the military would be a better way to go. I dont say this just because i'm in the military either (because i truthfully dont like the military), but because the route the economy seems to be heading for the next few years. Yes after med-school you would have to serve 4-years, but you would be getting paid for those 4 years you serve and your med-school debt will be gone. Obviously you wont get paid as much as if you were a doctor in the civilian medical world, but salaries fluctuate all the time. Now if you are smart about your finances either way could work greatly to your advantage. Also you wont have to worry about mal-practice suits in the military because most of your patient are soldiers who dont know no better. Plus the military is a job (unfortunately) that isn't going anywhere for a while if somethin catistrafic does happen to our economy in the next 4 years.

P.S. I still dont like the military but it is what it is. Hopefully these changes of Obamas wont take Long.

 

[NotAndrew]

I personally think the military would be a better way to go. I dont say this just because i'm in the military either, but because the route the economy seems to be heading for the next few years. Yes after med-school you would have to serve 4-years, but you would be getting paid for those 4 years you serve and your med-school debt will be gone. Obviously you wont get paid as much as if you were a doctor in the civilian medical world, but salaries fluctuate all the time.

Either of the military routes cover all of you costs of med school and actually pays you during the 4 years. Both of the military routes also require 7+ years of service after med school and residency. However during residency in the military you will make about 90K per year whereas non-military is like 55K.

 

[45408]

Either of the military routes cover all of you costs of med school and actually pays you during the 4 years. Both of the military routes also require 7+ years of service after med school and residency. However during residency in the military you will make about 90K per year whereas non-military is like 55K.

Not if you do a civilian residency.

 

[Jolie South]

Either of the military routes cover all of you costs of med school and actually pays you during the 4 years. Both of the military routes also require 7+ years of service after med school and residency. However during residency in the military you will make about 90K per year whereas non-military is like 55K.

With HPSP, you do get "paid" for med school, but it's $1900 a month which is not much more than what financial aid allots per month to students taking loans. You do, however, come out loan free with this scheme.

Actually, it's 4 years pay back for a 4 year scholarship. If you do a long residency, then you add on years beyond that. If you do a 4 year residency directly out of school, you would not add on any time. There are more complicated scenarios, but that's the general gist. Whether you defer to civilian or do a military residency doesn't change this.

You will not make 90K in a military residency and likely not make 55K in a civilian residency. More like 60K military, 45K civilian.

 

[NotAndrew]

With HPSP, you do get "paid" for med school, but it's $1900 a month which is not much more than what financial aid allots per month to students taking loans. You do, however, come out loan free with this scheme.

Actually, it's 4 years pay back for a 4 year scholarship. If you do a long residency, then you add on years beyond that. If you do a 4 year residency directly out of school, you would not add on any time. There are more complicated scenarios, but that's the general gist. Whether you defer to civilian or do a military residency doesn't change this.

You will not make 90K in a military residency and likely not make 55K in a civilian residency. More like 60K military, 45K civilian.

I was completely wrong on everything I said. I am a jackass.

 

[SirGecko]

I think that the major point that most people need to consider in this sort of a decision is that the military should not be viewed as a means to an end. The military is an end in and of itself. If you don't like the military you *should not* volunteer to serve in it. (if you are seriously thinking of taking an HPSP scholarship simply for the money I suggest you pop on over to milmed and do a quick search)

 

[Habeed]

I love how everybody on this thread thinks that post-residency income is guaranteed and takes it for granted. Like you just show up at work somewhere on day 1 and magically make huge bucks.

That's exactly how it works. Think about those doctors you have met who have poor english, poor social skills, and poor marketing and networking skills. Even those guys are still making the big bucks, albeit not as big as someone who markets themselves expertly.

The reason is that the artificial barriers to entry (finite med school and residency slots, mostly) have created a huge shortage of physicians. In turn, insurance companies are forced to pay fairly large fees in order to get physicians to do procedures on their patients.

All you need to do is to get into med school, match a residency where they teach you how to do these procedures competently, and finish your residency. (admittedly, the last step can be grueling) In most fields, practices are hiring and are offering large first year salary guarantees.

The work hours may suck, and the stress may be high, and it's ludicriously hard to get into med school...but the financial benefits are excellent for those who make it.

 

[Dirt]

That's exactly how it works. Think about those doctors you have met who have poor english, poor social skills, and poor marketing and networking skills. Even those guys are still making the big bucks, albeit not as big as someone who markets themselves expertly.

The reason is that the artificial barriers to entry (finite med school and residency slots, mostly) have created a huge shortage of physicians. In turn, insurance companies are forced to pay fairly large fees in order to get physicians to do procedures on their patients.

All you need to do is to get into med school, match a residency where they teach you how to do these procedures competently, and finish your residency. (admittedly, the last step can be grueling) In most fields, practices are hiring and are offering large first year salary guarantees.

The work hours may suck, and the stress may be high, and it's ludicriously hard to get into med school...but the financial benefits are excellent for those who make it.

This is a very misplaced analysis. There are basically two ways to make "big bucks" in this industry, go into a very high paying specialty by doing exceptionally well along the path (probably how those with poor social skills and what not do it), or have good business sense and financial know-how.

If you just get by satisfactorily in medical school and residency and go into internal medicine or some other middle of the road specialty, make a standard salary of say $100K-$150K, you are going to find that the financial benefits of going into medicine were not all they were cracked up to be. Especially if you start practicing at 30-35 with a $3,000/mo loan payment for the next ten years.

edit: btw how many docs do you see retiring at 65?

 

[Anam Cara]

The prospect of $3000 a month student loan payments is a bit sobering. I am hoping to do family medicine. That's really the only kind of doctor I want to be.

I'm wondering, does anyone know about the likelihood of being offered loan forgiveness from a hiring medical practice?

Also, I am aware of scholarship aid for those willing to work in hp shortage areas, though I hear these are unchristly competitive... (which surprises me, because aren't we needing more family medicine doctors serving in these shortage areas in order to drive down health care costs?).

I'm not so much interested in the military. I appreciate what soldiers do for us, but I'm not much for saluting and the like. Besides, I'm a piss poor shot with a rifle.

Anyway, I'm new to the forum and enjoy reading the posts.