From KevinMD: Why the ER admits too many patients

This forum made possible through the generous support of SDN members, donors, and sponsors. Thank you.
D

deleted109597

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2014/06/er-admits-many-patients.html
T
his gastroenterologist is a dick.
I guess it's time to stop checking KevinMD. When they give voice to people actively trying to sabotage other specialties, it's time to ignore them. Or tell them how you feel in the comments.

Members don't see this ad.
 
The GI doc isnt a dick. He is ignorant to our field. It is ok. He is probably just butt hurt about getting woken up at 4am.

We all know GI docs dont cause waste. Putting people on $300/month PPIs instead of the $4/ month PPIs has a greater effect on the healthcare system than the percieved overtesting.

We all know we can do better. Thats true for ER, GI and every other field of medicine. That being said this clowns post is funny.
 
Members don't see this ad :)
Ignorant, but some truth.
If we had complete protection from lawsuits, I would be sending home most CP and not getting as many CTs.

Until that day, things won't change.
 
WhiteCoat, can you post your reply? It looks like Kevin ... got his panties in a twist and promptly deleted it.

FYI- The "WhiteCoat" you see commenting over there might not be the "White Coat Investor" you see on this forum. It's usually "White Coat" from EP Monthly White Coat's Call Room and Dr.WhiteCoat.com (his email is [email protected] if you want to ask him about his comment on KevinMD)

It's confusing, I know. Some people think I'm "White Coat" from White Coats Call Room and Dr.Whitecoat.com since I guest post there sometimes, but that's also not true.

I don't think "White Coat" posts here, unless it's under a different pseudonym, though if so, he's never admitted it to me. (Of course, we all know White Coat Investor does, but they're two different people).

Groove, can you summarize what White Coat posted? In fact, if it was epic, he may have deleted it himself to make his comment a blog post of it's own. Kevin seems pretty liberal about letting comments or even full posts run no matter how controversial as long as there's no profanity or personal attacks.

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2014/06/er-admits-many-patients.html
T
his gastroenterologist is a dick.
I guess it's time to stop checking KevinMD. When they give voice to people actively trying to sabotage other specialties, it's time to ignore them. Or tell them how you feel in the comments.

I think Kevin Pho's site is a good thing. If you are a doctor and can write a well written article or blog post, he's likely to post it, whether he agrees with it or not to generate discussion. I think that's his main criteria. I can be quite certain if you wrote a good response to this guy's article in 1000 words or less, he'd be likely to run it. Hell, if he posts the stuff I write here, which he has many times, I'm certain he'd run yours. I do agree, some of the authors are "out there" and off base, but I think Kevin Pho's main objective is just to get his blog read. The more controversial the better. The quality varies, but there is some good content there. Most of us are amateurs when it comes to writing, so you get what you get.

The cool thing about his site, is that if you have something that chaps your ---, or something you feel passionate about as a doctor you can get your point across to tens of thousands of people by guest posting there, including influential people in a medicine, politics and media.

Here's my opinion on the post by the GI guy: I do think he was wrong for him to single out ER in this dilemma, when the ER is the most crushed by overwhelmed system. He does make some good points about the system influencing EM doctors to over admit such as medical malpractice and hospital pressure. However, I read it as more of an attack on the perverse incentives in the system, than on the specialty itself. He even says he'd do no different, "If I were an ER physician, I would behave similarly facing the same pressures that they do". But I agree with the above poster that it has under currents that come off as, "I'm really burned out on being a GI doctor on call all the time, and all these late night admits. Let me rant for a little bit."

Bottom line: We all know that many ER doctors (and all physicians) do things to CYA including BS admits and that there are perverse financial and legal incentives/disincentives to alter our care, despite some people refusing to admit they're affected by them. They're some of the same things I was touching on in the "Blood Pressure" thread yesterday. Regardless, none of them are going away anytime soon, no matter how much he wants to blame ER doctors for the life wrecking misery that is "Doctor Night Call."


If you look beyond the rant, is there some truth to his post?

"ER doctors sue over pressure to admit"-

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/2014/01/02/4583725/doctors-allege-for-proft-owner.html
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I think the criticisms are fair and rather old.

EPs order too many tests and over admit...
Responses: 1 mistake can seriously harm decades of training and nearly $1,000,000 in training costs and opportunity costs of lost income. An extra CT has no repercussions to the EP. News media and lawyers love to criticize the EP who didn't order that one test that ended up being critical and obvious (in hindsight!). Also, recently there was an EP who was fired for not admiting enough patients! So the administration is pressuring them to admit as much as possible.

He's right, we need tort reform if we want to change this. You can't have someone risking 10 years of training and $1,000,000 in investment just to save administrators money so they can profit more. An emergency physician needs to make critical decisions in minutes with little to no info yet is held at the same standard as a primary care doctor who has a 5 year relationship with a patient and intimate knowledge of their history.

No one mentioned customer service surveys! Patients WANT tests and unnecessary medications. EPs lose jobs if they don't give patients what they want.

The United States health care system is built to practice bad medicine. It's built to admit when you could send someone home. It's built to lead to defensive medicine. It's built to over treat and over medicate. It's not an ED problem, it's a United States problem.

Must viewing: 60 Minutes piece alleges corporate pressure on ER docs to admit more patients
http://www.thepoisonreview.com/2012...e-pressure-on-er-docs-to-admit-more-patients/
(If you don't have time to watch the 15 minute piece, just go to 10 minutes in and look at their admissions goal of >20%)


There are plenty of other examples of this - there was a lawsuit last year about this. (edit: Birdstrike posted a good link).

These management companies know how to suck every last dime out of the medical system.

We are essentially sending troops out into the battlefield with orders to fight - then complaining when they carry out their mission. Don't blame the emergency physicians, they are the pawns in a corporate and political war for billions.

I can't understand if people just don't understand these points or if they don't care. It's obvious the system is set up to profit - and the metrics that are continually lauded are not for patients but for profits.
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I think the criticisms are fair and rather old.

EPs order too many tests and over admit...
Responses: 1 mistake can seriously harm decades of training and nearly $1,000,000 in training costs and opportunity costs of lost income. An extra CT has no repercussions to the EP. News media and lawyers love to criticize the EP who didn't order that one test that ended up being critical and obvious (in hindsight!). Also, recently there was an EP who was fired for not admiting enough patients! So the administration is pressuring them to admit as much as possible.

He's right, we need tort reform if we want to change this. You can't have someone risking 10 years of training and $1,000,000 in investment just to save administrators money so they can profit more. An emergency physician needs to make critical decisions in minutes with little to no info yet is held at the same standard as a primary care doctor who has a 5 year relationship with a patient and intimate knowledge of their history.

No one mentioned customer service surveys! Patients WANT tests and unnecessary medications. EPs lose jobs if they don't give patients what they want.

The United States health care system is built to practice bad medicine. It's built to admit when you could send someone home. It's built to lead to defensive medicine. It's built to over treat and over medicate. It's not an ED problem, it's a United States problem.

Must viewing: 60 Minutes piece alleges corporate pressure on ER docs to admit more patients
http://www.thepoisonreview.com/2012...e-pressure-on-er-docs-to-admit-more-patients/
(If you don't have time to watch the 15 minute piece, just go to 10 minutes in and look at their admissions goal of >20%)


There are plenty of other examples of this - there was a lawsuit last year about this. (edit: Birdstrike posted a good link).

These management companies know how to suck every last dime out of the medical system.

We are essentially sending troops out into the battlefield with orders to fight - then complaining when they carry out their mission.

I can't understand if people just don't understand these points or if they don't care. It's obvious the system is set up to profit - and the metrics that are continually lauded are not for patients but for profits.
Great post. Where are you on the training-practice spectrum (attending/resident/medstudent/pre-med)?
 
Last edited:
WhiteCoat, can you post your reply? It looks like Kevin .... got his panties in a twist and promptly deleted it.

Here is White Coat's comment before being deleted, re-posted with his permission (check his blog too, for more soon)-

>What is it with people who have little or no knowledge of emergency medicine thinking that they have the insight to comment on what factors influence emergency medical care?
First, you make a bunch of assertions without any basis.
"Inarguable" that the emergency department performs unnecessary medical care? OK, doc. Tell me what tests that ED physicians regularly perform that are "unnecessary." I'm sure that you have tomes of instances of inappropriate care just waiting to be published on your blog. Educate all of us.
You "think" that there are more patients who are admitted who should instead be sent home? What's the basis for your "thought"? I'm guessing that you don't admit patients personally. You're a consultant. You have no basis for making that statement. On the outside chance that you do practice primary care medicine, here's an idea if you're inundated with "inappropriate" admits. Drag your whining buttocks to the emergency department and evaluate the patient yourself. Then YOU write the discharge orders. In twenty years, I've seen exactly two doctors ever do that.
Another point that you can add to your "insider information": Emergency physicians don't admit patients, the hospitalists and primary care docs do. Emergency docs don't have admitting privileges. So if you're so concerned with all of the "inappropriate" admissions, realize that it is the primary care docs authorizing them. Point the blame where it belongs. Oooooh. Stop the presses. Emergency physicians and hospitalists are conspiring to defraud the government by making inappropriate hospital admissions. Wait. You wouldn't make a statement like that because if you p----d off your primary care docs and hospitalists, they wouldn't refer patients to you. Funny how economic incentives influence one's desire to "whistleblow" "insider information," isn't it?
In your little study about intensity of service and admission rates, make sure that you exclude all of the patients sent to the ED from their doctors' offices with specific instructions to have the testing performed and also make sure that all of the patients who have been to their doctors offices several times with the same problem and who get no evaluation at all get treated as one "low testing" visit, not multiple "low testing" visits. Oh, and since pretty much every patient coming to the emergency department is a "new" patient to the emergency physician, make sure that your study only includes workups that primary care physicians perform on "new" patients to their practices. Not really fair to compare workups that emergency physicians perform on patients that primary care physicians have known for 20 years, now is it? When you've compiled your data, you can then compare how many lives that emergency physicians save with their "inappropriate" testing and "inappropriate" admissions ... all for about 2% of the health dollars spent in this country.<
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I was never actually able to see it as it was already deleted when I read the original blog post.

What a great retort. LOL. I love it. Thanks for re-posting.
 
Last edited:
Members don't see this ad :)
I would argue PCPs and specialists send too many patients to the ED and waste resources. Every shift I see several patients sent in for admission by their PCP. Could they have done a direct admit? Probably, but they are too lazy to go through the steps required. Instead they decide to waste money and resources by sending these direct admit patients through the ED. Other specialists (I had one fr0m GI lab last week) send in patients for asymptomatic high blood pressure. It's a complete waste, but we are not allowed to call the specialist and educate them on their incorrect behavior. We are expected to just suck it up and take it. Therefore, I think hospitalists and specialists should just suck it up and take it when I inappropriately admit a patient to them.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I would post a reply, but I have to go see an otherwise healthy kid with a fever of 100.7 who was sent in by her PMD "for labs".
 
  • Like
Reactions: 8 users
Don't most inpatient specialties (both primary care and specialists) hate EM doctors?
I think this really depends on where you work and how those guys get paid. In residency everyone hates everyone.

Where I work the hospitalists bring us cookies and other crap because without our admissions and workups they would have no money. Same for the specialists. Perhaps I just work in some weird Nirvana.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
I think this really depends on where you work and how those guys get paid. In residency everyone hates everyone.

Where I work the hospitalists bring us cookies and other crap because without our admissions and workups they would have no money. Same for the specialists. Perhaps I just work in some weird Nirvana.
I'm assuming you work in a hospital without a residency. And yes, I agree in residency, everyone hates everyone. The hatred for EM docs (attendings and residents) in teaching hospitals with training programs tends to be universal. The only exception are outpatient specialties Ophtho and Derm which are away from the inpatient side, and naturally of course everyone hates them bc they are able to get away from it all.
 
I think this really depends on where you work and how those guys get paid. In residency everyone hates everyone.

Where I work the hospitalists bring us cookies and other crap because without our admissions and workups they would have no money. Same for the specialists. Perhaps I just work in some weird Nirvana.

Same here and most calls to admitting teams and consultants end with a thank you. In a private community hospital, you're putting food on their tables with each call.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 user
I'm assuming you work in a hospital without a residency. And yes, I agree in residency, everyone hates everyone. The hatred for EM docs (attendings and residents) in teaching hospitals with training programs tends to be universal. The only exception are outpatient specialties Ophtho and Derm which are away from the inpatient side, and naturally of course everyone hates them bc they are able to get away from it all.

Academic hospitals operate in such a backwards world.

edit: the original comment is back on KevinMD
What is it with people who have little or no knowledge of emergency medicine thinking that they have the insight to comment on all the factors that influence emergency medical care? You have "insider's knowledge"? Puhleeze. Sounds more like a case of megalomania to me. Many of the assertions in your little "insider's" revelation have no basis and are flat out wrong.

"Inarguable" that the emergency department performs unnecessary medical care? OK, doc. Tell me what tests that ED physicians regularly perform that are "unnecessary." I'm sure that you have tomes of instances of inappropriate care just waiting to be published on your blog. Blow the whistle, why don't you?

You "think" that there are more patients who are admitted who should instead be sent home? What's the basis for your "thought"? I'm guessing that you don't admit patients personally. You're a consultant. You have no basis for making that statement. On the outside chance that you practice general medicine, here's an idea if you're inundated with "inappropriate" admits: Drag your whining buttocks to the emergency department and evaluate the patient yourself. Then YOU write the discharge orders. Think of all the "inappropriate" admits you could prevent! In twenty years, I've seen exactly two doctors ever do that. While we're at it, here's a little more "insider's knowledge": Emergency physicians don't admit patients, the hospitalists and primary care docs do. Emergency docs don't have admitting privileges. So if you're so concerned with all of the "inappropriate" admissions, point the blame where it belongs. Emergency physicians can't admit a patient without another physician willing to accept the admit. Ooooh. Stop the presses. Maybe emergency physicians and hospitalists are conspiring to defraud the government. Of course, it wouldn't be politically correct to piss off your primary care docs and hospitalists by alleging that they're committing fraud. If you did so, they wouldn't refer patients to you.

In your little study about intensity of service and admission rates, make sure that you count all the patients sent to the ED from their doctors' offices with specific instructions to have the testing performed, and also make sure you count all of the patients who have been to their doctors offices several times with the same problem and who get little or no testing done. Those should count as one visit, not multiple visits. And to compare apples with apples, make sure that you compare ED testing with office testing on NEW patients as opposed to established patients since emergency physicians have little or no prior knowledge about the histories of pretty much every patient they evaluate.

Alleging that emergency physicians engage in widespread healthcare fraud by colluding with hospital administrators to fill hospital beds with patients who don't really need to be admitted (wink wink) borders on being libelous. First, if patients are admitted and being held in the ED for beds (a frequent occurrence), then ED throughput is diminished. That makes emergency departments less efficient, not more profitable. Second, emergency physicians get paid based on intensity of service, not on hospital admissions. Just another example of your utter lack of understanding of the economics of emergency medicine. Maybe you haven't heard about RAC audits. Maybe you don't know about the two midnight rule and its implications. If you don't know about these things, you need to educate yourself before pontificating about a specialty you obviously know little about.

Stick to commenting about your own specialty and stop demeaning yourself by creating these uninformed linkbait posts.

By the way, have you ever written anything about how often gastroenterologists perform unnecessary endoscopies, Dr. Insider?
 
Last edited:
funny the gi guy talks about fee for service, how we blow money, waste resources but doesn't talk about they perform endoscopy and colonscopy separately so they can double bill.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 users
From the title of the thread, I thought it was going to be a think piece on the unmitigated pooch screw that is trying to obtain an urgent outpatient workup in America. But instead I'm left feeling f@$& that guy.
 
Looks like Kevin knows that EPs are largely at the forefront of FOAM, and posts link bait to rile them up, and generate clicks.
See this: Forget ultrasound
Sure, it's not completely "anti-emergency" but what other field requires ultrasound competence as a core curriculum? And what radiologist can do a proper H&P? If anything, good POC US decreases the requirements of radiologists. Oh yeah, it also decreases their income. Carry on.
 
Looks like Kevin knows that EPs are largely at the forefront of FOAM, and posts link bait to rile them up, and generate clicks.
See this: Forget ultrasound
Sure, it's not completely "anti-emergency" but what other field requires ultrasound competence as a core curriculum? And what radiologist can do a proper H&P? If anything, good POC US decreases the requirements of radiologists. Oh yeah, it also decreases their income. Carry on.
I think a big factor behind the "Ultrasound explosion" was the fact that the CPT code for Ultrasound guidance (76942) used to pay around $200 or more prior to 2014, depending on the payer (increasing reimbursement for a nerve block or joint injection previously done without guidance by 400-500%). Now that Medicare has slashed it by 60+%, I think you'll see the enthusiasm atrophy. I don't think this was a prime mover in ED use of ultrasound, but was so in outpatient and elective scenarios, and the trend bled over specialty lines into the ED. I think you're going to see ultrasound not being such a hot ticket item moving forward. With such minimal reimbursement for the use of a machine, much fewer doctors/practices/hospitals will be interested in spending 10s of thousands of dollars on a machine. You can't pay it off.

Again, like you're implying, just "follow the money" and you'll find the answers to your questions just sitting there, right out in the open.
 
Last edited:
what other field requires ultrasound competence as a core curriculum?

Whether you would consider it "core curriculum" or not, I'm not sure, but these do:

Anesthesia-lines and nerve blocks
Ortho-joint injections
Rheum-joint injections
Pain-nerve blocks, joint injections

And what radiologist can do a proper H&P?

Interventional rads (maybe)?
 
Whether you would consider it "core curriculum" or not, I'm not sure, but these do:
Anesthesia-lines and nerve blocks
Ortho-joint injections
Rheum-joint injections
Pain-nerve blocks, joint injections
I'd have to look. Certainly those are places it is used.
Core curriculum means you must demonstrate competency to graduate. US is an EM RRC requirement now, for better or for worse.
 
Bloated Healthcare Costs: Are Emergency Physicians to Blame?

By Birdstrike MD


In an article entitled, ”Why the ER Admits Too Many Patients,” Dr. Michael Kirsch tries to explain that Emergency Department admissions are inflated due to Emergency Physicians acting in their own self-interest. Many Emergency Physicians have read this and taken offense, feeling that his assertions point unfair blame on them for a significant portion of excesses in medical care and costs. I share this visceral reaction in part, but such a reaction blurs some very important points worth examining. Let’s give the benefit of the doubt for a moment, that the author may in fact be pointing the blame not at Emergency Physicians personally, but at a broken “system” instead.

First, he claims that due to fears of potential lawsuits, Emergency Physicians when in doubt, cautiously err on the side of admitting a patient and ordering tests, rather than discharging them with minimal work up. How any Emergency Physician can deny that this happens baffles me, as almost every one I’ve ever known will say in private they think about, and are motivated to avoid the threat of lawsuits (except for possibly a few in the handful of states with strong tort reform). Physician surveys seem to support this, with at least one showing >90% of physicians across multiple specialties admitting to such. This speaks to the greater issue of defensive medicine and the need for tort reform, and should not be seen as an indictment of Emergency Physicians. Tort reform is an issue where the American people just plain need to decide. Do they want to keep their cake uncut, or to eat it? You absolutely cannot cling to the pipe dream of reducing unnecessary medical testing and expensive overly-cautious admissions while holding true to the good old-fashioned American past time of suing the pants off of a doctor who sends a patient home, only to have something unexpected go wrong. Decide:

Do you want,

A-Doctors to send you home, cancel your test, and throw caution to the wind when you might be sick to save costs for the “greater system,” and give up the right to sue if something goes wrong, or,

B-Do you want to retain the right to sue in court for hundreds of thousands of dollars (or even millions) if you have a bad outcome and have doctors admit you when in doubt and order every test (expensive or not) that they think they need to keep that from happening?

You cannot have both A and B. For the most part, and in most states in the land, the American people, their elected politicians and the plaintiff’s attorney’s that support them, have already decided in favor of option B. The right to sue has always come out on top (in most states) and there’s no sign that’s about to change any time soon. To those who will respond with “science,” “data” and articles claiming the threat of medical malpractice doesn’t alter doctors’ practices or inflate healthcare costs, don’t bother. Most physicians are not interested in hearing evidence or “data” to show oxygen isn’t needed for breathing, or that 2+2 doesn't equal 4, either. There are some things we as doctors know to be self-evident. To the extent that one blames such a drive to err on the side of admitting patients on a dysfunctional medical malpractice system, is the extent to which he is correct. To the extent one points the finger specifically at Emergency Physicians, who have no choice in this day and age but to admit patients with the utmost of caution when in doubt, is the extent to which he is certainly wrong.

Secondly, it is claimed that doctors may be pressured by their hospital to admit patients to make more money. But for whom? There is nothing that personally profits an Emergency Physician by choosing to admit a patient over discharging one. Whether a patient is admitted or not, doesn’t change the physician fee, or level of service billed, at all. It’s simply not part of the criteria. It certainly may make a difference to a hospital administrator’s bottom line, which could lead a hospital to threaten a physician’s job over not admitting enough patients, or to provide improper and unwelcome pressure to do the same. At least one pair of Emergency Physicians have alleged exactly this, filing suit saying their “hospitals…offered them illegal kickbacks to order unnecessary tests and admit more patients to increase corporate revenues.” Is this an isolated case, and a fluke? Or are these the only two amongst many physicians that were either brave enough or fed up enough, to blow the whistle? Could this be the tip of an iceberg pointing towards a growing trend? My suspicion is that as the current trend of hospitals buying physician practices and employing physicians directly to co-monopolizing the healthcare system along with the government and insurance industry, that such instances will become more common. Either way, none this personally benefits an Emergency Physician. In fact, such pressures are toxic towards physician morale and are on the list of things that lead many physicians to steer young people away from the career. Emergency Physicians only make more money by either, 1-Working more hours, or, 2- By seeing more patients. Otherwise, they suffer (along with more importantly, their patients) from being caught in the middle of the rest of these twisted pressures and motivations imposed by others. This needs to be made 100% clear.

The author goes on to assert, that unnecessary admissions would be stopped suddenly and dramatically, if we could just tweak the system such that “…hospitals are penalized financially for hospitalizing folks who should have been sent home” and then “we will witness the miracle of a runaway train performing a U-turn on the tracks.” Where is the proof, that this would do anything more than just add another layer of distorted pressures and motivations, twisting the vice tighter on Emergency Physicians, with the sword of frivolous medical malpractice accusations on one side if a sick patient is sent home, and on the other side, the hot iron of threats from profit-conscious hospital administrators facing the threat of financial penalties if too many patients are admitted? This seems to me, that opposed to having “miraculous” results, it would do nothing more than add another layer of unintended consequences to an already twisted storm of conflicts of interests, distracting physicians from making the best decisions for their patients based on their medical knowledge, judgment, textbooks and training.

In conclusion, the author of this article brings up some very good issues and concerns. It is unclear the extent to which he points the blame specifically at Emergency Physicians themselves. To the extent that he does so, I disagree vehemently. It is my suspicion however, that he points the blame more at our broken system with its perverse pressures, as evidenced by his comment, “If I were an ER physician, I would behave similarly facing the same pressures that they do.” It is of my opinion that Emergency Physicians are a lighting rod at the center of the storm of a broken system, and suffer from it much (second only to the patients), with little to gain from its perverse pressures and coercions. Under the current conditions I would say they do the most with the least, and as a group, do a phenomenal job in the unenviable, overwhelmed and thankless circumstances they frequently find themselves. Perhaps by understanding and acknowledging this, physicians between specialties, patients and policy makers can find common ground to battle the threats distorting, twisting and re-defining our profession and our patients care.


(What do you think? Agree, disagree or don't care?)
 
Last edited:
  • Like
Reactions: 7 users
Bloated Healthcare Costs: Are Emergency Physicians to Blame?

By Birdstrike MD


In an article entitled, ”Why the ER Admits Too Many Patients,” Dr. Michael Kirsch tries to explain that Emergency Department admissions are inflated due to Emergency Physicians acting in their own self-interest. Many Emergency Physicians have read this and taken offense, feeling that his assertions point unfair blame on them for a significant portion of excesses in medical care and costs. I share this visceral reaction in part, but such a reaction blurs some very important points worth examining. Let’s give the benefit of the doubt for a moment, that the author may in fact be pointing the blame not at Emergency Physicians personally, but at a broken “system” instead.

First, he claims that due to fears of potential lawsuits, Emergency Physicians when in doubt, cautiously err on the side of admitting a patient and ordering tests, rather than discharging them with minimal work up. How any Emergency Physician can deny that this happens baffles me, as almost every one I’ve ever known will say in private they think about, and are motivated to avoid the threat of lawsuits (except for possibly a few in the handful of states with strong tort reform). Physician surveys seem to support this, with at least one showing >90% of physicians across multiple specialties admitting to such. This speaks to the greater issue of defensive medicine and the need for tort reform, and should not be seen as an indictment of Emergency Physicians. Tort reform is an issue where the American people just plain need to decide. Do they want to keep their cake uncut, or to eat it? You absolutely cannot cling to the pipe dream of reducing unnecessary medical testing and expensive overly-cautious admissions while holding true to the good old-fashioned American past time of suing the pants off of a doctor who sends a patient home, only to have something unexpected go wrong. Decide:

Do you want,

A-Doctors to send you home, cancel your test, and throw caution to the wind when you might be sick to save costs for the “greater system,” and give up the right to sue if something goes wrong, or,

B-Do you want to retain the right to sue in court for hundreds of thousands of dollars (or even millions) if you have a bad outcome and have doctors admit you when in doubt and order every test (expensive or not) that they think they need to keep that from happening?

You cannot have both A and B. For the most part, and in most states in the land, the American people, their elected politicians and the plaintiff’s attorney’s that support them, have already decided in favor of option B. The right to sue has always come out on top (in most states) and there’s no sign that’s about to change any time soon. To those who will respond with “science,” “data” and articles claiming the threat of medical malpractice doesn’t alter doctors’ practices or inflate healthcare costs, don’t bother. Most physicians are not interested in hearing evidence or “data” to show oxygen isn’t needed for breathing, or that 2+2 doesn't equal 4, either. There are some things we as doctors know to be self-evident. To the extent that one blames such a drive to err on the side of admitting patients on a dysfunctional medical malpractice system, is the extent to which he is correct. To the extent one points the finger specifically at Emergency Physicians, who have no choice in this day and age but to admit patients with the utmost of caution when in doubt, is the extent to which he is certainly wrong.

Secondly, it is claimed that doctors may be pressured by their hospital to admit patients to make more money. But for whom? There is nothing that personally profits an Emergency Physician by choosing to admit a patient over discharging one. Whether a patient is admitted or not, doesn’t change the physician fee, or level of service billed, at all. It’s simply not part of the criteria. It certainly may make a difference to a hospital administrator’s bottom line, which could lead a hospital to threaten a physician’s job over not admitting enough patients, or to provide improper and unwelcome pressure to do the same. At least one pair of Emergency Physicians have alleged exactly this, filing suit saying their “hospitals…offered them illegal kickbacks to order unnecessary tests and admit more patients to increase corporate revenues.” Is this an isolated case, and a fluke? Or are these the only two amongst many physicians that were either brave enough or fed up enough, to blow the whistle? Could this be the tip of an iceberg pointing towards a growing trend? My suspicion is that as the current trend of hospitals buying physician practices and employing physicians directly to co-monopolizing the healthcare system along with the government and insurance industry, that such instances will become more common. Either way, none this personally benefits an Emergency Physician. In fact, such pressures are toxic towards physician morale and are on the list of things that lead many physicians to steer young people away from the career. Emergency Physicians only make more money by either, 1-Working more hours, or, 2- By seeing more patients. Otherwise, they suffer (along with more importantly, their patients) from being caught in the middle of the rest of these twisted pressures and motivations imposed by others. This needs to be made 100% clear.

The author goes on to assert, that unnecessary admissions would be stopped suddenly and dramatically, if we could just tweak the system such that “…hospitals are penalized financially for hospitalizing folks who should have been sent home” and then “we will witness the miracle of a runaway train performing a U-turn on the tracks.” Where is the proof, that this would do anything more than just add another layer of distorted pressures and motivations, twisting the vice tighter on Emergency Physicians, with the sword of frivolous medical malpractice accusations on one side if a sick patient is sent home, and on the other side, the hot iron of threats from profit-conscious hospital administrators facing the threat of financial penalties if too many patients are admitted? This seems to me, that opposed to having “miraculous” results, it would do nothing more than add another layer of unintended consequences to an already twisted storm of conflicts of interests, distracting physicians from making the best decisions for their patients based on their medical knowledge, judgment, textbooks and training.

In conclusion, the author of this article brings up some very good issues and concerns. It is unclear the extent to which he points the blame specifically at Emergency Physicians themselves. To the extent that he does so, I disagree vehemently. It is my suspicion however, that he points the blame more at our broken system with its perverse pressures, as evidenced by his comment, “If I were an ER physician, I would behave similarly facing the same pressures that they do.” It is of my opinion that Emergency Physicians are a lighting rod at the center of the storm of a broken system, and suffer from it much (second only to the patients), with little to gain from its perverse pressures and coercions. Under the current conditions I would say they do the most with the least, and as a group, do a phenomenal job in the unenviable, overwhelmed and thankless circumstances they frequently find themselves. Perhaps by understanding and acknowledging this, physicians between specialties, patients and policy makers can find common ground to battle the threats distorting, twisting and re-defining our profession and our patients care.
 
kdBjg88.png


Courtesy of XKCD
http://xkcd.com/386/
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 users
I'm assuming you work in a hospital without a residency. And yes, I agree in residency, everyone hates everyone. The hatred for EM docs (attendings and residents) in teaching hospitals with training programs tends to be universal. The only exception are outpatient specialties Ophtho and Derm which are away from the inpatient side, and naturally of course everyone hates them bc they are able to get away from it all.
We do have a residency here. Needless to say they are work averse. Because of this attitude I only try to dump the crappiest of the crap on them. Its a vicious cycle I guess. In the end it doesnt matter to me. Our hospitalists would thank me for admitted an uninsured HIV positive rectal bleed who is also bleeding from his nose and spitting at everyone. The conversation would end with "thanks Ill see them upstairs". Nirvana.
 
Same here and most calls to admitting teams and consultants end with a thank you. In a private community hospital, you're putting food on their tables with each call.
I have heard this rumor, but I expect to find Bigfoot before I find evidence confirming it.

Sent from my Z10 using Tapatalk
 
Okay. So my post #30 above got snatched up by Kevin Pho for his site and is up there today (but not WhiteCoat's which was way more popular). For those of you who aren't boycotting KevinMD.com, click on the link and comment. His site has a huge national/international audience and gets read by not only hundreds of thousands of people, but very influential people in government, healthcare and policy making. The comments also get super-widely read which means, agree/disagree/don't care, you'll get heard much more over there than here or DrWhiteCoat.com

Did I get it blatantly wrong, right, or let the GI guy off too easy?

Do it:

http://www.kevinmd.com/blog/2014/06/emergency-physicians-blamed-broken-health-system.html
 
Top