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FS School During Residency?

Discussion in 'Military Medicine' started by DeadCactus, 05.10.12.

  1. DeadCactus

    DeadCactus SDN Lifetime Donor Lifetime Donor

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    Working on my MS4 schedule and hoping to match into civilian EM (I'm NG, not HPSP) next year. I'd really like to go through FS school at some point. I was hoping to do it during fourth year, but the timing has worked out to where that would cost me some rotations I really wanted to do.

    Any chance of getting to go during residency? Maybe use two weeks of vacation and an elective? Trying to decide if I should prioritize it over the fourth year rotations I want or just put it off and squeeze it in during residency.
  2. DocRGR

    DocRGR

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    Is there an incentive for you to do it now versus right after residency? Otherwise, I would think it's "six here, half-dozen there" in regards to timing.
  3. DeadCactus

    DeadCactus SDN Lifetime Donor Lifetime Donor

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    Main motivations are that:
    1) A delay represents a chance for real life to get in the way
    2) The 6 weeks of my time as a student is worth nothing while 6 weeks of my time as an attending is worth $15-25k
  4. TheGoose

    TheGoose

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    ..
    Last edited: 05.13.12
  5. DocRGR

    DocRGR

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    Good point on delaying attending pay. Remember that in the Army the school is only offered in March, July and October. So you would have to have an elective + vacation time line up perfectly in residency to make that happen. Not saying that's impossible, but would definitely take some sorting out. In regards to the flight surgeon billet, I don't think that's true for the Army. By going to FS you're basically telling the Army you are interested in operational medicine, not that you are taking a certain job.
  6. DocArmy

    DocArmy Livin The Dream!

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    In reading the Army FS school webpage, it also appears that the class is set up primarily to train those who are deploying as a FS within 90 days. They got preference for seats, with medical students getting a lower priority for attendance.

    I thought about it and even worked out a hole in my schedule for it, but it seemed like a pain to set up, given that we don't have an S1 to talk to, except at that nebulous unit in Saint Louis. Advice that I got from my uncle (an AF flight surgeon) was to get your flight physical squared away during residency, as THAT was the big hurdle to clear. Then, when the opportunity presents itself, you're ready to go.

    If you were to do the FS course as an attending, during the run up to a deployment, do you lose your bonuses and whatnot during that time?
  7. grumbo

    grumbo Member

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    There are several advantages to getting FS course done as early as possible. One being that your flight surgeon pay is based on longevity that starts the day you graduate the course. If you finish FS course in med school, then your time as a flight surgeon is ticking, which means more pay if you do eventually fill a FS slot. If you do FS school after residency on your way to a job, then you just get FS with <2 years, which is $125. Second, if you wanted an operational job, it helps to be available as soon as possible. If you were trying to get a good operational job and had FS out of the way, then you look more attractive as an applicant. This would apply for something like a Special Forces job or something where it's competitive to get in, especially right out of residency.

    As for doing it during residency, it's very difficult to get things lined up. Most specialties have limits on how much time you can spend away from the program. For FM it's 3 months in a given academic year. If you have away rotations, they count as time away from the program. That's why some people will try to get into the reserve course which is broken down into 2 three-week phases. You'd take one 3 week block in say PGY2 and the second 3 week block in PGY3. It's a pain in the butt to schedule, but it can be done.

    As for getting the flight physical done, it's only good for a year at most I think. It really doesn't take that long to do. the hard part is finding a place that can do it for you. As for pay, the Army pays you a fixed thing no matter what you're doing. Going to FS school has nothing to do with your bonuses. The only change is you get flight pay after FS school if you're in a FS slot. Hope this helps.
  8. notdeadyet

    notdeadyet Still in California Moderator

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    Also, keep in mind that many programs that allow away electives (and not all do) require that they be clinical, which FS training would not be.
  9. ArmyAerospace

    ArmyAerospace Program Director

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    First, I am the point of contact for HPSP students to access the Army Flight Surgeon Primary Course (AFSPC). I am assigned to USASAM and I am the Branch Chief and Program Director in Pensacola. I attended the course as a USUHS MS4. 6 weeks as a USUHS rotation in Aviation Medicine.

    A couple of things...

    1. Since you are National Guard, your access to the AFSPC is 100% controlled by your State. This is further limited by the number of ATRRS seats allotted to the Guard (by DA and NGB) and the funding available to the State. Don't forget your unit's willingness to pay for your TDY.
    2. For NG & AR Components the course can be split into two 3-week sessions. These are typically limited to the fall and spring dates. Summer is mostly filled with Officers who just completed GME.
    3. NG MSC 2LT MS4s have and may attend the course. They may do either the 6 week and two 3 week methods. This is a complicated 3 way process where the State, the medical school, and USASAM all say yes. Note-Aviation Service Entry Date starts the first day of class regardless of method.
    4. FYI, you cannot volunteer to attend "no cost" via an "away" rotation. it is actually illegal so don't ask and waste people's time. You must be on orders to attend.
    5. Medical Schools may count the AFSPC as a clinical rotation. But, that is strictly up to the school.
    6. You will have to obtain and maintain a qualified (or waiver granted) Class 2F initial Flight Duty Medical Exam (FDME).

    HPSP Scholarship Students,
    1. The current OTSG Directorate of Medical Education Policy restricts attendance of the course to Officers already JSGMESB selected for thte preliminary Aerospace Medicine Residency (see Army Aerospace Medicine Training in another thread).
    2. COL Powers is retiring from DME OTSG so this may policy change but as of today it is current policy.
    3. if selected in December at the JSGMESB, the MS4 student MAY attend the Spring AFSPC before graduation. This is beneficial for several reasons but not required. We will get them the course while an intern or PGY2.
    4. Class 2F FDME required.

    USUHS Students
    1. OTSG DME Policy is not applicable to USUHS students because they are in a Joint organization and not subject to OTSG policies until after graduation.
    2. Contact the Departmet of Military Medicine to arrange the course.
    3. Class 2F FDME required.

    Also, by all means email or call me if you have questions. I can usually help. phone number on the Army Aerospace Medicine Training thread.
    Last edited: 05.26.12
  10. DeadCactus

    DeadCactus SDN Lifetime Donor Lifetime Donor

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    Great info, thank you so much for responding.
  11. ArmyAerospace

    ArmyAerospace Program Director

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    FYI, Army Regulation 600&#8211;105 Aviation Service of Rated Army Officers addresses medical students eligibility to attend the Army Flight Surgeon Primary Course. The older version had a lot stronger verbiage. The current 22 June 2010 version simply states that medical students starting the course are entitled to initiation of Aviation Career Entry Date. It also states, "Medical students who complete the basic course are not awarded the rating until appointment in the Medical Corps." So medical student course graduate are appointed as flight surgeons after complete medical school with a Medical Corps appointment. http://www.apd.army.mil/pdffiles/r6...ng with your commander and state bureaucrats.

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