"Full-time job" excuse or legit reason?

[ONYX4000GT]

Do you think Medical Schools actually take into account a person working full-time while going to college full-time? What would the comparison be for a 3.9gpa applicant (on-campus/no work) and a 3.4gpa (off-campus/full-time work)? Assuming MCAT's and EC's are equal..

-By the way.. I am a full-time student/worker.

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[MadHopsMD]

Do you think Medical Schools actually take into account a person working full-time while going to college full-time? What would the comparison be for a 3.9gpa applicant (on-campus/no work) and a 3.4gpa (off-campus/full-time work)? Assuming MCAT's and EC's are equal..

-By the way.. I am a full-time student/worker.

they will see the 3.9 right off the bat, and that my friend rulez. but 3.4 + full time work, will definetly give you points in the eyes of the adcom.

may i ask where you worked?

 

[ONYX4000GT]

I put in just over 30hrs a week at a restaurant (smokey bones), Red Cross Volunteer, American Cancer Society Volunteer, and Hospital Volunteer.. Im 4.0 for now, but feel the "boat" is starting sink.. Its getting tough, thats why Im asking.

 

[JessietheDog]

I have worked nights and gone to school during the day for my entire college experience...I am hoping this means something to the adcomms. But, even if adcomms do not look on this favorably, I do think they will understand and will not blow it off as an excuse. Good luck.

 

[45408]

they'll be a little understanding, but honestly, don't work/volunteer so much that you're only getting a 3.4 - debt can be repaid, volunteering can be done in the summer, but your grades are permanent.

 

[notdeadyet]

they'll be a little understanding, but honestly, don't work/volunteer so much that you're only getting a 3.4 - debt can be repaid, volunteering can be done in the summer, but your grades are permanent.

Can't agree with TheProwler more on this one. You can volunteer here and there through the school year for 5 hours a week and be very productive. But when it comes to money, take out loans. You'll be taking out far more by the time you're done.

Folks have low GPAs because they nursed a parent in poor health, lost an SO/spouse, battled depression, had kids to raise, worked full time, etc. Others partied, slacked, slouched, and didn't apply themselves. Having a compelling reason for the low GPA is better than not having one, but not nearly as good as not needing one.

 

[WestTexasRambler]

they'll be a little understanding, but honestly, don't work/volunteer so much that you're only getting a 3.4 - debt can be repaid, volunteering can be done in the summer, but your grades are permanent.

Dam I wish someone would have offered this sage advice when I was 18. I probably would have ignored it anyway.

 

[PEN15]

I always felt that school was like a full time job. I can't imagine having to work and go to school at the same time... which probably explains why I have so much debt. Looking back on it now, I wouldn't change a thing. IMO I think marks are way more important than anything else in your application. Do what you can to keep that 4.0 even if it means taking out a lot of loans; you'll be thankful you did later on.

 

[greytmedic]

I have been able to work full-time and go to school full-time while keeping my grades high. The one caveat is that I have a job that I work full-time doing night shifts and weekends, but I can sleep and study at work and still get paid good money. Thank you E.M.S. (which stands for Earn Money Sleeping).

 

[rachmoninov3]

Ah yes, EMS and night shift. I worked EMS in arizona which pays decent, but switched to the hospital night shift in New Mexico that doesn't pay EMS squat. Usually I still have time to study, but of course there's always a code or a bitchy family member or just chaos on the weekends before exams

However, to answer the OP question: One of my interviewers was impressed that I pulled 48 hours of work with 9 grad hours of school. Of course, this my third time applying, I can't actually speak from success. And I won't know if she was impressed enough until March 15th!

 

[45408]

I have been able to work full-time and go to school full-time while keeping my grades high. The one caveat is that I have a job that I work full-time doing night shifts and weekends, but I can sleep and study at work and still get paid good money. Thank you E.M.S. (which stands for Earn Money Sleeping).

Yeah, I don't know how else I'd have been able to work 20-ish hours a week, although the first year I did it, I got to sleep a lot more than I was near the end of my EMS career. More idiots were doing stupid things at 4am, I guess...

 

[MonkeyNuts!]

I put in just over 30hrs a week at a restaurant (smokey bones), Red Cross Volunteer, American Cancer Society Volunteer, and Hospital Volunteer.. Im 4.0 for now, but feel the "boat" is starting sink.. Its getting tough, thats why Im asking.

All that and still 4.0? you must have some nice time management skills

 

[Law2Doc]

Do you think Medical Schools actually take into account a person working full-time while going to college full-time? What would the comparison be for a 3.9gpa applicant (on-campus/no work) and a 3.4gpa (off-campus/full-time work)? Assuming MCAT's and EC's are equal..

-By the way.. I am a full-time student/worker.

You don't really get much benefit of these kinds of excuses, however valid. There are quite a few folks out there who manage to work, do ECs, and still do well. Med schools expect that if you are going to work while in school, you find a way manage to handle it all. Expect the 3.9 applicant to get the edge here.

 

[MinnyGophers]

You don't really get much benefit of these kinds of excuses, however valid. There are quite a few folks out there who manage to work, do ECs, and still do well. Med schools expect that if you are going to work while in school, you find a way manage to handle it all. Expect the 3.9 applicant to get the edge here.

While true, the 3.9 GPA applicant wasn't working. If med schools expect you to still do well while working, how can they assume that the 3.9 GPA applicant wouldn't be doing crappy if he had to balance a huge workload while going to school full time?

 

[Law2Doc]

While true, the 3.9 GPA applicant wasn't working. If med schools expect you to still do well while working, how can they assume that the 3.9 GPA applicant wouldn't be doing crappy if he had to balance a huge workload while going to school full time?

I don't disagree with you personally, but from what I've seen, adcoms don't give this kind of GPA leeway to folks who work. So IMHO you are better off with a higher GPA and not working than a lower GPA while working. The world isn't fair.

 

[Hardbody]

they'll be a little understanding, but honestly, don't work/volunteer so much that you're only getting a 3.4 - debt can be repaid, volunteering can be done in the summer, but your grades are permanent.

How I wish someone told me this when I was 18. I worked full time and went to school full time (to pay for it) and I ended up unofficially withdrawing. 7 F's on the transcript really has a way of killing an overall GPA (I really wish I could go back and officially withdraw). Funny thing is, I went back to school and took over 20 credit hours a semester (over 120 credit hours since I have been back) AND worked full time AND earned straight A's which includes all the pre-req's and one upper level physiology class since I am a non-science major (and yes I took challenging classes, not basket weaving 101). My GPA is now crap and I would bet anything I do not get into any of the allo schools I applied to this year (although I am trying).

I personally think AMCAS should start a new policy and look ONLY at the last 120 credit hours a student has taken, this way a crappy start for whatever reason that reflects nothing of a students aptitude and/or attitude does not haunt a student forever.

 

[njbmd]

Do you think Medical Schools actually take into account a person working full-time while going to college full-time? What would the comparison be for a 3.9gpa applicant (on-campus/no work) and a 3.4gpa (off-campus/full-time work)? Assuming MCAT's and EC's are equal..

-By the way.. I am a full-time student/worker.

When it comes to "work" versus "school" it is always the "school" that comes up short. This is why you should take your time and decrease your coursework if you NEED to be employed while you attend school. Living outdoors and going hungry is not condusive to good academic performance either so keeping your job is understandable.

A 3.4 GPA is not as good as a 3.9 GPA and may put you out of the running at some schools that screen for GPA. Working full-time does not offset a low GPA and is not an "excuse" for a poor academic performance (not that 3.4 is poor).

If you work full-time, most schools will recommend that you attend classes part-time. If you are an efficient student and able to work full-time and attend school full-time while maintaining a high GPA (>.3.5), then you are fortunate. Most pre-medical students are unable to do this with good results.

Will your full-time employment "offset" a lower GPA? No, GPAs are compared head to head. You can attempt to explain your lower GPA on employment but most people on an admissions committee KNOW that working full-time and going to school full time is very, very tough. They will usually recommend that you cut back on your school hours so that you can manage your coursework well.

Will you be somehow at a disadvange if you courseload is less but your GPA is high and you work full-time? No, your excellent GPA will show that you are a good student and will also show that you are wise enough to give your academics the time that they require so that you can do well.

 

[ONYX4000GT]

.......Will you be somehow at a disadvange if you courseload is less but your GPA is high and you work full-time? No, your excellent GPA will show that you are a good student and will also show that you are wise enough to give your academics the time that they require so that you can do well.

I never thought about it that way.. Good point.

 

[becky_C]

they'll be a little understanding, but honestly, don't work/volunteer so much that you're only getting a 3.4 - debt can be repaid, volunteering can be done in the summer, but your grades are permanent.

Every case is different. Some people don't have many options and working full time is the only way school is possible. So it's work full time and get a lower GPA or don't go to school and have no GPA.

I think working full time is a playing field equalizer, if not a point in your favor. You have a look of life outside of school, which is very different. (Not saying one is better than the other, so nobody get all bent out of shape.)

I worked full time through my masters degree and my GPA wasn't as high as it could have been, but I think the job affords different opportunities: grant writing, consulting, or whatever the case may be...

 

[notdeadyet]

So it's work full time and get a lower GPA or don't go to school and have no GPA.

Can you give an example of a situation like this? I'm sure it exists, but outside of raising children, I can't think of one. I had to work full-time, so I took my early premed classes at night part-time. When I was in a position where I had enough money to attend school full-time, I did so.

I'm sympathetic to folks having to work. I pretty much blew away a carefully built business that I had working for myself in order to go to school full time. I'm now about five years back professionally while I apply to medical school because of it.

Not that I regret it. I worked full time while studying for my MCAT, but I don't think telling schools this will result in them giving me a few sympathy points. I don't think they will do so for the fact that I worked during my undergrad either.

 

[lunaire]

I think if you work full time to support yourself through college (due to necessity, not stupidity), and you emphasize this accordingly in your application, you won't be at a disadvantage. Unless the med school screens strictly on GPAs.

 

[45408]

Every case is different. Some people don't have many options and working full time is the only way school is possible. So it's work full time and get a lower GPA or don't go to school and have no GPA.

I think working full time is a playing field equalizer, if not a point in your favor. You have a look of life outside of school, which is very different. (Not saying one is better than the other, so nobody get all bent out of shape.)

I worked full time through my masters degree and my GPA wasn't as high as it could have been, but I think the job affords different opportunities: grant writing, consulting, or whatever the case may be...

Most people could take fewer classes or take out bigger loans. I'm not trying to be rigid and refuse to understand, but keep these things in mind. Does the adcom want someone with a high GPA or low GPA? They can usually fill a class with a bunch of students with high GPAs, so if yours is low, you're putting yourself at a disadvantage. YES, I know that working while in school demonstrates a lot of maturity and responsibility that someone who went to school via the First Bank of Dad *may* not have, but don't let your grades circle the drain.

 

[MinnyGophers]

Most people could take fewer classes or take out bigger loans. I'm not trying to be rigid and refuse to understand, but keep these things in mind. Does the adcom want someone with a high GPA or low GPA? They can usually fill a class with a bunch of students with high GPAs, so if yours is low, you're putting yourself at a disadvantage. YES, I know that working while in school demonstrates a lot of maturity and responsibility that someone who went to school via the First Bank of Dad *may* not have, but don't let your grades circle the drain.

like I said earlier though, people who are able to balance being a student and working while still keeping a fairly good GPA are at least showing that they can handle working hard in med school.
Those who don't do jack and get a 3.9 could very well have had a 2.9 had they had to work, and vice versa.

Those who have to work have a handicap in the whole process. The fact that med schools do not consider that is what is not really fair, especially since those who usually do not have to work are those who are financially advantaged.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Just to play devil's advocate here:

A 3.4 is not going to look as good as a 3.9 (although it's still a pretty solid GPA, especially from a decent school).

Lookit, you're never going to find a med school applicant who says "my GPA is lower than I'd like it to be because I didn't study enough." EVERYONE has an excuse. While some of them are valid, at some point a school just has to be a little hard-nosed. Tons of people on SDN claim that their GPA dipped because of "depression" or "they got overwhelmed." I feel for them but guess what? Med school is just as depressing as undergrad and if you had trouble back then you're probably going to have trouble in med school. Adcomms are not looking at GPAs to see if the applicant really understands Physics and Chemistry but to see if they can perform in difficult academic setting. Why? Because they need their students to pass board exams.

Best of luck to OP, I'm sure you'll do fine.

 

[ONYX4000GT]

So.. Since I work full-time, should I schedule my semesters a bit easier? I can handle a 3.5+ no problem if I spread the BIO/CHEM/PHYS/MATH courses out a bit while taking the "social" courses to stay full-time. Most of the studying for me comes with the pre-reqs. This should be fine with a good gpa and full-time work right?

-I remember hearing somewhere, Med schools want a tough schedule.

 

[becky_C]

Can you give an example of a situation like this? I'm sure it exists, but outside of raising children, I can't think of one. I had to work full-time, so I took my early premed classes at night part-time. When I was in a position where I had enough money to attend school full-time, I did so.

I'm sympathetic to folks having to work. I pretty much blew away a carefully built business that I had working for myself in order to go to school full time. I'm now about five years back professionally while I apply to medical school because of it.

Not that I regret it. I worked full time while studying for my MCAT, but I don't think telling schools this will result in them giving me a few sympathy points. I don't think they will do so for the fact that I worked during my undergrad either.

Sure: Me. Though I can get loans to cover my school tuition, books, etc. I don't think I could pay my mortgage (which is cheaper than rent around here) or my car note or my grocery bills....My husband and I are both in school and I guess maybe that's a compromise of marriage- we're both working and going to school whereas I'm sure if he were to get a better job (and not go to school) I could go full time. But post-marriage I've learned thinking in the singular isn't all that possible!

 

[45408]

Just to play devil's advocate here:

A 3.4 is not going to look as good as a 3.9 (although it's still a pretty solid GPA, especially from a decent school).

Lookit, you're never going to find a med school applicant who says "my GPA is lower than I'd like it to be because I didn't study enough." EVERYONE has an excuse.

Um, I'll tell you that. I can point my finger to several different classes that I slacked off in because I didn't care enough to put in the effort to move up a grade.

 

[45408]

-I remember hearing somewhere, Med schools want a tough schedule.

You heard wrong, pretty much. Your GPA is a fixed number - the guy reading your application has little to no idea how rigorous the courses on your transcript actually are. They can guess, but it'd only be an educated one. They'll take the GPA over the alleged rigor of a course.

 

[notdeadyet]

Sure: Me. Though I can get loans to cover my school tuition, books, etc. I don't think I could pay my mortgage (which is cheaper than rent around here) or my car note or my grocery bills....

That's legit. Add "mortgage" to the list of true excuses for having to work too much in college.

I just find it sad that so many students work too many hours and have their grades suffer. You can take out more loans. You can sell your car and use the bus or get a beater. You can take less classes. Etc.

But once you're responsible for supporting someone else, or coming in with lots of immovable debt, your options are much more limited.

 

[AmoryBlaine]

Um, I'll tell you that. I can point my finger to several different classes that I slacked off in because I didn't care enough to put in the effort to move up a grade.

I stand corrected. You're never going to find 2 applicants...

 

[NonTradMed]

Folks have low GPAs because they nursed a parent in poor health, lost an SO/spouse, battled depression, had kids to raise, worked full time, etc. Others partied, slacked, slouched, and didn't apply themselves. Having a compelling reason for the low GPA is better than not having one, but not nearly as good as not needing one.

So true.

 

[Miami_med]

So.. Since I work full-time, should I schedule my semesters a bit easier? I can handle a 3.5+ no problem if I spread the BIO/CHEM/PHYS/MATH courses out a bit while taking the "social" courses to stay full-time. Most of the studying for me comes with the pre-reqs. This should be fine with a good gpa and full-time work right?

-I remember hearing somewhere, Med schools want a tough schedule.

Keep up the GPA. Drop some of your work. I can tell you that it is definitely possible to keep a GPA over 3.9 with 20-30 hours a week of work. During many of my interviews however, the work wasn't even seen as a valid excuse for missing extracurriculars. I was supporting a family. They are strict. Keep up the GPA.

 

[Hardbody]

Keep up the GPA. Drop some of your work. I can tell you that it is definitely possible to keep a GPA over 3.9 with 20-30 hours a week of work. During many of my interviews however, the work wasn't even seen as a valid excuse for missing extracurriculars. I was supporting a family. They are strict. Keep up the GPA.

Nice blog!